I am A+ certified and needless to say it was easy to obtain. I am currently reaching out for MCSE and want to know if anybody else is MCSE and what is there take on that particular certification? Any suggestions?
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I am A+ certified and needless to say it was easy to obtain. I am currently reaching out for MCSE and want to know if anybody else is MCSE and what is there take on that particular certification? Any suggestions?
MCSE is a great cert to have but is far more intensive than your A+. The 200 version is 7 test long and I here the 2003 will be 9 tests long. These tests require practical knowledge and can be very tricky. If you try and regurgetate practice questions off the internet, you will probably get tripped up and fail. I know from experience because I failed the Network Infrastructure test my first time. Also don't just read the cram guides becuase they often aren't good enough. Good Luck : )
OK, I have two spins on this for you.
Technical
======================
The exams themselves break down to 4 core courses and 3 electives. This of course is the MCSE for NT4/W2K. The exam does deal with advanced topics but like many exams, their examples must have been developed in a vacuum. At any rate, if you read and take practice exams from any MS certified book you *should* do fine.
Industry
====================
Remember those commercials that said that MCSEs are earning 100k a year? Well *many* shady operations (I refer to them as road side kindergartens) started pumping students full of visions of wealth and they promised that if these poor suckers took their courses they would pass the exam for sure. Well the market became flooded with MCSEs that had less knowledge than a first year CIS student. I know this because I have interviewed these "MCSEs" and even more awful, I ended up working with them.
Advice time
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If you want an MCSE that is fine. However, don't expect that it will open doors for you. Right now the CISSP and CCSE are getting a lot of attention in the industry. You might want to try for one of these in addition to an MCSE cert. I have all three and I have to tell you, the Cisco cert and the CISSP cert grab attention. The MCSE is like having a 1988 Iroc camaro. I was nice at one time but today a toyota camry has more horsepower.
:)
I've had no formal schooling in the computer field.
I really enjoy playing with mine, and am often asked to help acquaintances and friends with various computer problems...which has allowed me to learn a little bit about a wide variety of things. (yet, not alot about any one area).
I don't have the finances (or the stability to only work part time) to go to school just yet.
I was wondering if, for a person of my experience, certification courses would be a viable (and affordable) option.
I've been reading a microsoft press MCSE book, so far I understand it....would reading texts/tutorials/practice questions, and setting up a two computer network at home to practice the topics on be enough to get me through a certification?
Is there a certification, other than MCSE, that would make more sense for me to work on as a foundation?
Just wondering.
well guys i'm studying "computer science" in greece.but i want to extend my knowledge.and if something like that would help my salary's increase,why not?so i need some help.do you think that the CISSP and CCSE would be good for somebody who doesn't have any other degrees in computer science?or should i start with something much more easier such as ECDL?
I remember in the good old days of NT4 the mcse used to mean something.
Over here in scotland they seem to be more or less giving them away in newspapers.
I think these boot camp places give you a pass even if you fail to keep yopur pass rate up.
Hey, just to prove this im going to send my gran for her 2k mcse.
Hi
I am 5 weeks from finishing my CCNA. I would recommend it to everyone wanting to start into networking etc. I started home studying for my A+ but got bored as its seemed to be basic general knowledge of computer systems with a bit history thrown in. Lookin to do an MCSE very soon as I think it would compliment the CCNA well.
I would tend to agree with thehorse13 (seems to be happening a lot lately :) ).
I have an A+, CISSP and an MCSE2k.
A+ is great for getting a relatively easy certification under your belt that may open some entry-level doors for you.
The MCSE has a lot less glory and earning power than it once did, but I think many companies still look for it on resumes. Microsoft has tried to raise the bar so there would be fewer MCSE's with no real-world knowledge or experience. I think it worked some, but they still have a way to go.
CISSP and the GIAC certs from Sans are a little hotter right now because security is a hot topic, but with the IT industry where it is right now even those don't guarantee you employment.
If you are looking at whether or not to go to school, I personally feel that a couple certifications and getting in the door to earn some experience are more valuable than a college degree. I am almost done with my Bachelors in IT now, but I didn't even start working on it until after I got to a plateau and now the degree seems to be a missing link to open doors to more executive-level positions like CTO or CISO.
If you have no certifications I might recommend going for the A+ first- or something that doesn't require 7 - 9 separate tests and almost $1000 in exam fees. That will at least get you going. Beyond that, you can also pursue the MCSA as an interim solution. If you take the MCSE exams in the right order you knock out the MCSA when you're about halfway through the MCSE exams and then just finish testing toward the MCSE. I got my MCSA and MCSE simultaneously based on the electives I chose.
i have heard of several people that would just read through the books, set up small networks in their houses, and who got through the exam. One thing i recommend is a study partner. They will be able to ask you questions to quiz you, probe your mind for answers that they come up with, etc.
One piece of advice = set up a small, yet ISOLATED network. While studying for certs many people make silly mistakes, and end up having to reformat, etc., or end up having security issues. Don't put your main box up there, just buy a few 500 mhz machines and go at it.
I worked as an IT trainer for about a year so I'm surprised that companies look favorably at an MCSE at all most people just memorized brain dumps and didn't know much at all.
If you are relatively young my best advice would be to stay in school and get a degree in something along with the cirts at least until the job market picks up. There are a lot of MCSE wit years of experience out of work some one with no work experience will have a very hard time getting work. Heck it took over a year for one friend of min to find a job after getting laid off and he’s a CCIE.
While you are working towards your MCSE I would recommend getting Server, this will let you get an MCSA on your way to the full MCSE, and any security certs in there will help also.
I worked as IT. I see that alot of companies required MCSE but dont know much on hand-on. that s part of negative.
I agree with bballad - stay in school and get some degree. I m going back to school to get bs degree in IT.
good luck man
Here is my problem with degrees- they're highly overrated. How many people are working a job that has absolutely nothing to do with the degree they studied for in college?? How many people with degrees are unemployed??
Many kids spend 4 to 6 years in college pursuing a bachelors degree thinking its the holy grail to successful employment. What happens is they start in the work force 4 to 6 years later with tens of thousands of dollars of debt in student loans to pay back.
You can get an entry-level job somewhere- even in the Best Buy repair center or something. By the time 4 to 6 years go by you have 4 to 6 years of experience and possibly a few certifications. Odds are fair that you can also get your employer to pay all or part of your education expenses if you choose to pursue a degree on the side and you may qualify for more grants and scholarships by being in the field than just being a student.
In 4 years would you rather have 4 years of experience and have worked your way past the $50k salary mark with your employer helping you pay for your degree or would you rather just be getting your entry-level $25k or $30k job with $50k of debt to pay back?
Even in a tight job market I think you can go farther searching for that entry-level position and getting your career started instead of laying low in college and hoping the market is better before you graduate.
I agree with toneybradley. I have an associates degree (unrelated to IT), and then went on to get 6 years IT experience in the military. When I got out I was able to use that experience over someone with certs and no experience. Since then I moved into the Security field and am now doing vulnerability assessments. I'm now in the position now (just under $100K) where a degree would help in a pay increase (put me over the $100k plateau) but certs are just a "nice to have". I think the biggest thing is experience and being able to back that up in the interview process through a technical interview. Just my thoughts from my personal experience.
I would love to agree with you, in fact after 2 years of school I dropped out because I wanted to get into networking not programming. Unfortunately during my last job search I was constantly told that the position required a Bachelors or higher, these where jobs I have 5 years experience in...I final got a position by neglecting to mention that I didn't get a degree when I mentioned what University I went to I let them infer whatever they wanted to by my years of education, this got my resume past the HR peons. My wife is in the same feild I am in with two less years of experience, she is makeing about 10k a year more then me bacuse of her degree and that difrence is widening...when it hits 30k (about 10 years from now if the groth rate continues) I'm going back to school.Quote:
Originally posted here by tonybradley
Here is my problem with degrees- they're highly overrated. How many people are working a job that has absolutely nothing to do with the degree they studied for in college?? How many people with degrees are unemployed??
Many kids spend 4 to 6 years in college pursuing a bachelors degree thinking its the holy grail to successful employment. What happens is they start in the work force 4 to 6 years later with tens of thousands of dollars of debt in student loans to pay back.
You can get an entry-level job somewhere- even in the Best Buy repair center or something. By the time 4 to 6 years go by you have 4 to 6 years of experience and possibly a few certifications. Odds are fair that you can also get your employer to pay all or part of your education expenses if you choose to pursue a degree on the side and you may qualify for more grants and scholarships by being in the field than just being a student.
In 4 years would you rather have 4 years of experience and have worked your way past the $50k salary mark with your employer helping you pay for your degree or would you rather just be getting your entry-level $25k or $30k job with $50k of debt to pay back?
Even in a tight job market I think you can go farther searching for that entry-level position and getting your career started instead of laying low in college and hoping the market is better before you graduate.
On the pay note ...every one I know with a degree in CS (about 25 people that I keep ties with) all but one was making over 50k in their entry-level job. The one exception went on to a MBA and was making 65k entry level. With out the degree well as a tech at most repair joints you will make 8-12 an hour :( don't make the same mistake I did, even if you don't want to program finish that CS/BCS/ICS degree its worth it. Note that about half of these people found jobs post bust the rest where pre bust
I am sure there are exceptions in both directions.
I have one friend who dropped out of high school and went to work programming at age 16. He is now 22 and making almost $80k as the lead developer for a company.
On the other hand, I have another friend who went to college on the 6 year plan majoring in English. He now works in some anonymous administrative position making somewhere in the $35k to $40k neighborhood after being there for 5 years. He has been out of college 10 years and just got done paying off student loans.
This is very true- especially once you hit a plateau. You mentioned that you have 5 years experience which is about where I am as well. I have found that I am about maxed in terms of what I can do without a degree which is why I am now getting one. The question is, do you think you would be better off or farther along in your career if you would have taken 4 years to get the degree? I think you might open a door or two now, but you would still be 4 years farther behind in the experience department which would close a lot of doors as well.Quote:
Unfortunately during my last job search I was constantly told that the position required a Bachelors or higher
I got my entry-level job with no "real" experience, no degree and no certifications and went from $30k to $65k in 3 years by job-hopping (pre-bust). Honestly, I think there is a great deal of luck / fate involved (being in the right place at the right time) and a LOT of plain interviewing skills. If you talk a good game and sound confident I think you get offers that others who may be technically superior but not as good at communicating miss out on.
Just my $.02 (or was that $.03?)
I think the prebust has a lot to do with it. I had no problem finindg jobs pre 2001 post 2001 I heard a lot of well you don't have a degree.Quote:
Originally posted here by tonybradley
I am sure there are exceptions in both directions.
I have one friend who dropped out of high school and went to work programming at age 16. He is now 22 and making almost $80k as the lead developer for a company.
On the other hand, I have another friend who went to college on the 6 year plan majoring in English. He now works in some anonymous administrative position making somewhere in the $35k to $40k neighborhood after being there for 5 years. He has been out of college 10 years and just got done paying off student loans.
This is very true- especially once you hit a plateau. You mentioned that you have 5 years experience which is about where I am as well. I have found that I am about maxed in terms of what I can do without a degree which is why I am now getting one. The question is, do you think you would be better off or farther along in your career if you would have taken 4 years to get the degree? I think you might open a door or two now, but you would still be 4 years farther behind in the experience department which would close a lot of doors as well.
I got my entry-level job with no "real" experience, no degree and no certifications and went from $30k to $65k in 3 years by job-hopping (pre-bust). Honestly, I think there is a great deal of luck / fate involved (being in the right place at the right time) and a LOT of plain interviewing skills. If you talk a good game and sound confident I think you get offers that others who may be technically superior but not as good at communicating miss out on.
Just my $.02 (or was that $.03?)
Either way you go someone is going to say it's overrated. I have coworkers that put more merit in certs than degrees, and some that put more merit in degree's than certs (ask which one they went for and you'll see why).
I myself am going for a balance of both....I have some certs, I just started school, and I will continue to do both.
The choice between CERTs and DEGREEs is definitly gamble either way (as most things in life are). There will be success and failure stories in either direction. The thing, I believe, you should look at it what makes the most sense for you...don't try to follow the career paths of others.
Getting your CERTS right away will definitly get your foot in the door and get you a good paying job quickly. Some jobs will then pay for you to go get your education (degree). Most likely, though, you will not keep your initial job for the rest of your life. Heck, I didn't keep my first 4 computer jobs, with six years of IT experience. BTW...the last job I left had a salary of $56K, which is pretty good in Louisiana. So, if (most likely when) you leave your job, what will get you your new job?
Experience and CERTs will go a long way, but if you don't have a degree, you will be hitting the platau that tonybradley mentioned. Basically, unless you go the do-it-yourself (self-employment) route or you got a connection, you NEED a degree.
Now, there is no debating the fact, that getting a degree while you are young is infinitly easier than juggling school, wife(?), kids(?), and all the crap that comes your way later in life. You simply have more time and less restrictions when you're young. I say while your young and have lots of free time, go to school and get your degree. Heck, take 16 to 18 hours a semester if you're in a hurry. Besides, if you want your CERTs later, they are something you can break up and fit into just about any schedule, no matter how hectic or they are something you can knockout quickly. A degree is very hard to break up and gets very tiring when it gets dragged out for many years.
To answer the original question:
Don't jump from A+ to MCSE. Get your Net+ first. It will give you a good foundation for the MCSE. If you want your simplest route through the MCSE, as well, the A+ and Net+ will buy your way out of an Elective Exam, but you have to request the credit from Microsoft. Additionally, get your MCSA along the way. The elective Exam for the MCSA is a joke compared to the core four MCSE/MCSA exams AND it counts toward the MCSE. Check out the tracks [a href="http://www.microsoft.com/mcp"]here[/a]. You can essentially reduce your actual studying to 5 exams...the core 4 and the design course. Just look out for Directory Services *cringe*. It's BY FAR the nastiest exam of the core 4....Good Luck!Quote:
I am A+ certified and needless to say it was easy to obtain. I am currently reaching out for MCSE and want to know if anybody else is MCSE and what is there take on that particular certification? Any suggestions?
Another note on all of this is that most places that will give you money for college will also give you money for cert courses and tests.
Oh and go to a state school the cost is much lower and the education is no worse if not better (see CalTech).
well mcse is quite easy if you put your mind to it i have not yet done it but i have a cousin who have and he says it's very interesting it all depends on you so far you put your mind to it you can do it ,so friend go for it :)
My certification got me in the door, but the skill set that I built upon that (Cisco, routers, and especially Linux) is what got me promoted to the department head. Certs are good, but real world knowledge is always better. Certs get you in the door, what you do after that is up to you.