Although it's not that I hate Micro$oft or Bill Gates
but Microsoft Security is an oximoron.
With respect ,
win*,*nix Guru
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Although it's not that I hate Micro$oft or Bill Gates
but Microsoft Security is an oximoron.
With respect ,
win*,*nix Guru
Erm, please make some more sense, and add a bit of detail to what your post is supposed to be about. Please also read the FAQ, and put some more thought into your posts. Welcome to AO :)
Cheers.
Well.I see I need to make some more in-depth explanation.Let's face it, Win9x,including WinME don't have any security ,even a 5 year-old kid can just delete the *.pwl files and you're done.Well.there's of course NT,2000 and XP which are a bit improved but just make a quick search on google on NT hacking and everything is solved.But,when it comes to *.nix which are real multiuser,network-ready true OS'es.
I smell smoke. Might be flames soon...
black_v, are you just here to rant about your belief of the lack of security in Microsoft or is there something you want to ask?
As instronics suggested you might want to read the FAQ
Ok, let me try to make some sense then.
I agree that windows 98, and ME do not have the same secirity level as windows 2000 or XP. Also, i have to add that the kernel 1.X.X does not have the same security level as 2.4.20 on a *nix system. I used to think that way too, that windows is the worst OS, its not secure etc.... but other OS's by default are not all much safer either. Its more than the OS that counts, its the person behind it. I only use linux, since it offers me everything i need for my everday computing habbits. I can name you some win systems that are much tighter than some *nix systems. Its not only about the system, but its also about the person who maintains the system. *nix systems also have loads of security issues, and many patches are needed. Take "sendmail" for example, that services has been exploited so many times. Also many other security issues that relate only to the *nix OS are present. Once you have secured ANY system, it can be very safe. There is no such thing as 100% safety. Safety, or better said "security" consists of the following:
1 - Regular Backups of important data.
2 - Using strong passwords.
3 - Encryption for passwords, or vital data.
4 - Firewalling if your on a network.
5 - Local access as well as remote access permissions.
6 - Being upto date on everything, make sure you are patched at all times.
7 - Antivirus is essential.
8 - Logging events, and most important of all, actually taking the time to read the logfiles.
9 - IDS (intrusion detection systems)
So you see, if i ignore some or any of these points on any *nix system, then the *nix system is as vurnable as any win system. These are what make security. The OS is not all that important. Ofcourse there are slight differences between each OS like you mentioned, just google for NT weaknesses, but then again i could also google for redhat weaknesses, and come up with several links to exploits. I hope i have made some sense here. Let me know if i forgot anything.
Cheers.
i agree with instronics and msmittens, i am speaking here not becoz i love M$.
In win ME there is Restore system, you can set the restore before you go and let the kids do what they want ( even if we stop them they won't stop .. ahhh kids ) after that active the restore system and you can get back what u missed by the kid did. I just think all OS has some advantage and bad side , it depends with your needs and requirement. So if you said M$ or other OS is bad or good that's all depend with from which side you see at the OS from.
WIn9x doesn't have good security but it can run faster than win2k ( when u reboot or open some files, or for game ) , please see the advantage rather than the bad side. I am not negging you, but i am enought hearing about unrespecting person about OS, if you don't like just ignore it, if you love it you may use it. The point is Nothing perfect in this world.
I could be wrong about this, but i just want to explain...
:)
//addon//
MSMITTENS, i dont think there is going to be any rant, and i would like to point out to others who might comment in here, theres no flaming essential. Its only a discussion on beliefs. I have tried to make certain facts clear. Those facts are called "discussions", and thats the nice thing about forums. Black_v seems to be new to security (seeing his point of things), so its up to AO to help him understand security. Ranting and flaming will not teach or help any newbie who is unaware.
Cheers everyone :)
instronics, I think he's trying to bait some into some flames. :D
shadow_dancer, you are correct. And one thing needs to be remember: what these OSes were designed for.
Win95/98/ME: Home use. The idea was that home users would do simple things like kids games, homework, home accounting, etc. Hence, security wasn't big.
WinNT: Was released before the Internet got big. It was designed as a LAN OS (Competition against Novell's 4.x)
Win2K: Internet OS. Most of the "holes" are legacy holes with only a few being specific to Win2K. IIS still remains an achilles heel.
Linux OSes: Ptrace has been one of the biggest problems around. Various vulnerabilities exist for a variety of applications (apache, ssh, sendmail, BIND, etc.)
Unix: Solaris, HP/UX, *BSD all have their fair share of problems as well. Granted that the *nix family of OSes was designed first towards networking they didn't get into security until the late 80s - mid 90s.
That all said, there is one point that Instronics did put forth that I agree with. It does depend on the admin that looks after the box. One of the best security guides for NT I've ever seen was the one by the US Navy. Extremely thorough. And yet, few admins would know half the tricks in there. It is dated and I wish they'd release a Win2K version. Anything can be locked down (and yes, nothing can be 100% secure), just need to take the time to do it. That applies to all OSes, regardless of who made it.
History was a history, i just thought "How wonderfull person who built the OS?" so i will not even say bad things abaout the OS, becoz my self will not able to built the OS.
Perhaps what black_v meant was correct ( aggre with instronics ) and msmittens had suggested great explanation either, no one here false . OS is wonderfull so just enjoy it and learn it depper and deeper.
;)
MsMittens. any idea where i can find the NT book of magic that the navy put out? Also, what service pack of NT does it go through?
They only went as far as SP4 (AFAIK). It's quite thorough for both workstation and server.
www.anr.mcnc.org/~csc591w/cs591w/navynt.pdf -- Part 1
http://www.supelec-rennes.fr/ren/per...doc/navynt.pdf -- Part 2(3?) I was looking for the SP4 one but found one for SP6a. BONUS! =)
It should be in a PDF format. ;)
<edit>
Fixed links. Hope these work
</edit>
The Navy guides where good, but I believe you will not see any new guides from them, for a long time Navy intell was in charge of federal computer security procedure(I have no idea why) recently it has been taken over by the NSA, and now homeland security. The SOP on system security form the NSA for Win2k is one of the best I have ever seen, its wait and see for what Homeland security puts out. I believe the NSA guides where linked in a very recent thread here.
On the MS insecurity note, it is almost imposable to secure any system locally (Windows, OS2, Unix) without some third party tool…I would suggest a LART .
Reading over the NSA site. For an kids here interested in security/cryptography they still have high school and college internships…a friend of mine did one of these ten years ago, he said the best perk was the NSA ID badge, he could get pulled over for speeding flash the badge and claim national security…scared a few cops out of giving him a ticket J
Hmmm, sorry MSM, the links seem to be wrong. I get page not found within windowssecurity.com
Sorry, the page you have requested cannot be found on http://www.SecInf.net/.
It is possible that you typed the address incorrectly, or that the page no longer exists.
Please use the site navigation bar or search feature above to find the page you require.
Thank you.
:( :( :(
http://www.secinf.net/windows_securi...ion_Guide.html
Between Googles' typos and the auto URL thingy here.. sigh.
That should work. =P
w00t w00t, thank you very much MSM :)
Cheers everyone else for your help too :) Dont you just have to love AO :D
Cheers.