A step closer for Anti-Abortion supporters

So what does everybody think about abortion? I found an intresting article yesterday (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html) that was saying how people against abortion are trying to get legal rights for the fetus seperate from the mother. They were using this for double-charging a husband that hurts a pregnant mother so that he is charged with hurting the mother and the baby. If they are able to get this passed then they will try to argue that since the baby has seperate rights then no one can kill it by abortion. This law may get passed since congress and the president are both republican. What does everybody think about this thing passing? And also what does everybody think about abortion alltogether? I personally am deeply against abortion. I think that abortion is a dispicable act from the parents. The baby shouldn't have to lose its life just because of the parents stupidity and irresponsibility. Some women would like to disagree with me saying that, " its my baby and I should be able to choose what happens to it." Well I say that is bullshit, it is just as much of the fathers baby as it is the mothers. There are some examples where it is acceptable to have an abortion (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/15/di....ap/index.html), but 98% of the time it isn't acceptable.

Im am totally against abortion! Let's just set up an scenario real quick, imagine yourself just humming along and all of the sudden a big vacumm cleaner begin's to suck your brain and heart and all of your limbs from you. That sure as hell sound's like a horrible way to die to me. "The baby can't feel it though it's not fully born" bullshit! How the hell do you know, surely you don't remember when you were still a fetus right? I hate abortion and would never support it, and i am for overturning Roe.vs.Wade it's a murderous law and should be seen for what it is: MURDER!

If you don't provide legal abortions it just goes to the back alley and becomes dangerous ,sex education is about as good as it gets on this issue . (on a side note, I am eagerly wanting to see the 6ft statue commemerating all the aborted children ,that the South Carolina legislature is going to erect on their grounds)

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sex education is about as good as it gets on this issue .

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You can see from my signature where i stand on this issue. ;)

Quite frankly, I personally am pro-abortion in most cases. Of course, any rational person will agree that the parents should have been more careful and used protection of some sort (or of two or more different sorts), however, once it's been done, most people who have abortions are either too young or otherwise incapable of taking care of a baby. I feel that it's better to kill the fetus at that stage, than have the kid grow up to be a mal-nourished, possibly abused, irresponsible citizen. I'm not saying this for the mother, but for the child. I know I'd rather be aborted than be born to parents who wouldn't take care of me properly.
Cheeers,
cgkanchi

IMO abortion is OK as long it happens on an early stage of the pregnancy, at a time the fetus isn't a fully developed human being. Which means something like

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The baby can't feel it though it's not fully born

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How far into the pregnancy this has happened is difficult to know I guess, and the legislation in different countries differ a lot on this matter. For sure you have to draw the line somewhere, but to say that every abortion is murder to oversimplify things a bit.

Saying "no" to an abortion is still a CHOICE. Who am I, or anyone not in such a situation, to decide for the individuals involved.
If a pregnant woman's life is threatened by the life she is carrying, she and her husband have a choice to make, she most of all. Would you like the state to say "You must die", or "your wife must die"? Even if you and your wife come to the decision that the child is more important, wouldn't you be reassured that it was HER choice, and not the state's that brought her death?
And the question of children begotten through rape? Am I to choose for the woman?
Incest? Teenager girls? Accidents?
I agree that anything that can live outside of the womb should not ever be killed, and I personally would never wish my seed to get willfully expunged.
But, I am only fit to judge situations relating to me personally.
If God gave us free-will, is it the state's place to strip it away in cases that do not harm the state? Where is freedom if every choice that we could possible make that matters is made for us? The freedom to like the color red does not make a man or woman free.
Sometimes I wonder if the one's so adamantly against abortion are afraid that they wouldn't have the strength in a situation where they might contemplate it to choose no and want to pre-emptively make the choice. Acting virtuously should not be made artificially easy, some things depend on strength of character and not on law, I'd like it to stay that way.
Dhej

You guys have made some interesting arguments here. It's all in the way you are raised i guess, i remember protesting outside abortion clinic's with my old man when i was only like 7 or 8.

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If a pregnant woman's life is threatened by the life she is carrying, she and her husband have a choice to make, she most of all.

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This is true, you have to do_ what you have to do in this case, and that's just unfortuante, but sometime's you just don't have any other option.

Big government does not belong in any woman's uterus, okay. It just doesn't.

This brings up an issue I had with good ol' Ronnie Reagan. He was anti-abortion and pro death penalty. What that means to me is the guy wanted to decide, by himself, who lives and dies in this country. That's just wrong. Fundamentalists should never be allowed to run rampant over personal choices.

I'm very sorry for this next calous remark; but it's better to terminate it early than it end up in state run (or worse privately run) home for abandoned youths. I grew up watching my friends live horrid existences from the home down the street. They were good kids, but you don't get much of a chance to make any headway in places like that. Not to mention there wasn't much guidance for them and they really had no one to talk to, either.

I understand what your saying Korp, foster homes are always bad, but still, I think that you should let the child decide if he lives or dies. If he grows up in a foster home and doesn't like it then let him be the one to kill himself; instead of having a doctor do it for him before he even has the opportunity to live.

Dhej, if there is a choice between the baby dying and the mother dying then I would probably choose the baby. That is why I said before that 98% of the time it isn't acceptable. There is still that 2% where circumstances would have it that the baby die.

P.S. I was wondering to all of you out there who don't live in the U.S., when is the latest that you can have an abortion in your country?

So you condone suicide but are against abortion?

That's probably one of the most twisted viewpoints I've ever heard. The implications run further than pro-death penalty/anti-abotrionists. Wow.

I'm stunned.

I don't condone suicide, I was joking when I said that the kids should be the ones to kill themselves because they most likely wouldn't kill themself. I have known many kids from foster homes and they have turned out to live an average life. Everybody has problems in their life, some kids have divorced parents, some kids have foster homes. The list could go on forever... my point is that it's better to have a hard life than to have no life.

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my point is that it's better to have a hard life than to have no life.

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I have to agree with you there SS. Id rather have a hard life, than to suffer the torment of a vacumm cleaner sucking my insides out. Atleast in that life i would more than likely be able to go to school, and work hard to change my future.

dood, don't you people watch CNN? from what i heard that law contains a specific clause that states that it doesn't apply to abortions, only to people who kill pregnant women. otherwise there'd be a crapload more protesting going on.
i think that abortion should be something that is approached with intellegence, and not just because you were stupid and got knocked up. if you were raped, or if your baby would be born only to live a few hours in pain, or if your child would be born a vegtable and you're not capable of dealing with that, then i think that abortion should be presented as an option, with follow-up and counciling for both the mother and the father (if applicable). but if you're a crack whore and can't support your seventh child from the seventh different daddy, so you want an abortion, then tough- should have used a condom.

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Originally posted here by schoolsucks
P.S. I was wondering to all of you out there who don't live in the U.S., when is the latest that you can have an abortion in your country?

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Within 12 weeks of the pregnancy. But abortions are done after the twelve weeks as well because some doctors can be a little sloppy estimating the age of the fetus. Sometimes as late as 14-15 weeks.

Abortions can be done legally even after the 12 weeks in case the patient's life is threatend from complications during the pregnancy.

Korp you are starting to scare me, I had you pegged as a Neo conservative...now I am guessing true conservative (if so you are one of the last) or Libertarian..... Its good to see that some one else thinks that the government should stay out of someones private life, this is an opinion that neither side takes unfortunately.

As for abortion I am morally opposed, but that is a moral and social issue not a legal one, I would never advise any one to get an abortion for no medical reasons, but I would not deny any women her right to one.


and Johhny it dosn't matter what the intent of the law is, but how its applied, this is just a back door into getting rid of a womens right ot controll her own body.

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Originally posted here by KorpDeath
Big government does not belong in any woman's uterus, okay. It just doesn't.

This brings up an issue I had with good ol' Ronnie Reagan. He was anti-abortion and pro death penalty. What that means to me is the guy wanted to decide, by himself, who lives and dies in this country. That's just wrong. Fundamentalists should never be allowed to run rampant over personal choices.

I'm very sorry for this next calous remark; but it's better to terminate it early than it end up in state run (or worse privately run) home for abandoned youths. I grew up watching my friends live horrid existences from the home down the street. They were good kids, but you don't get much of a chance to make any headway in places like that. Not to mention there wasn't much guidance for them and they really had no one to talk to, either.

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A conservative I am not, bballad. No conservative I know (neo or otherwise) would be a card carrying member of NORML.

As I've said before I try to stay away from labels because that limits your capacity to analyze things objectively. And I do try to stay objective, at least as much as can. ;)

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A conservative I am not, bballad. No conservative I know (neo or otherwise) would be a card carrying member of NORML.

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I can vouch for that, I'm one of the only conservatives in this forum from what I can tell. :p Probably schoolsucks too, but you would have to ask him.

And your right KD most conservative's wouldnt be a member of NORML. :D

I am not really conservative or libertarian. I take a little bit from both, maybe a little more conservative than libertarian but Korp makes a point when he says it can limit you to how you think. Well, at least it would limit me...

Being conservative doesnt nessecarily tie you to any party. Hell, i like quite a few of the liberal's idea's but that doesnt make me a democrat. :cool:

In a country where the death penalty is OK even for minors and innocent people,
abortion should be OKed and even funded IMHO..

and framework in the USA there is no difference between democrats and republicans anyway..

While I will agree with the second point I take issue with the first.
We may still have the death penilty in the US but we do not apply it for minors (well in a few rare instances where a minor gets tried as an adult, but IMHO I don't think Texas and florida should be counted as part of this country), as for innocent people, well mistakes are made but the courts try to make sure that no innocent is ever in jail let alone exacuted, that s what all those apeals are for. Are you going to tell me that in your country no one has ever been wrongfuly impriioned.

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Originally posted here by the_JinX
In a country where the death penalty is OK even for minors and innocent people,
abortion should be OKed and even funded IMHO..

and framework in the USA there is no difference between democrats and republicans anyway..

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You seem to have serious misconceptions about the U.S., it's laws, and it's people.

To each his/her own.

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In a country where the death penalty is OK even for minors and innocent people,

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When you consider the amount of wholesale slaughter in Europe's
20th century wars and genocides, All europeans should just STFU
:cool: