xbox hacking

Has anyone been to http://hackingthexbox.com/ ? Mr. Huang is selling a book with xbox hacks and what looks to be general security type stuff. The original publisher backed out due to fear of the DCMA. Why would Microsoft care if you modified thier product once you buy it? I think its silly. Once you purchase something you have the right to modify it anyway you want. For instance when I bought my house, I was able to rip it apart and redesign one of the rooms....and there where plenty of books out there that show me how to do it. The same thing goes for my car. I can make mods if I wish, but I may void the warranty. I think M$ is crazy if they think they can stop people from selling books on how to mod thier xbox systems. Anyway, my little senseless rant. I wanna hear the other side of the story for those that agree with M$. Thanks,

MC

This was a previouse discussion.
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...highlight=xbox

ARRGGH....sorry,

OK, what is the best way to search this site to see if something has been posted. I always use the "search" field and I never seem to get back accurate searches. I searched "xbox" and nothing came back. This is the second time I posted something that was covered in another thread and don't wanna keep doing it. Is there some secret to searching the other threads for similar posts?

Quote:

---

Why would Microsoft care if you modified thier product once you buy it?

---

Microsoft cares because of the DMCA. Microsoft usual End User License Agreement does not allow for reverse engineering, decompiling, or changing the original code in any way. I am 99.99% certain this includes the X-Box gaming console. This is not silly. It's to protect intellectual property rights. X-Box hacking falls into that catagory, and I think the publisher was smart to back out. MS is not very nice when it comes to stealing their stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, one can argue Microsft stole **** too, but let's face it... Robin Willams put MS in the the most perfect light:

Quote:

---

... Monopoly is just a game senator. I am trying to rule the ****ing world...

---

Quote:

---

Once you purchase something you have the right to modify it anyway you want.

---

Wrong. You have purchased the right to RUN and USE the product within the terms of the EULA or the terms set forth for the game console. Not to hack it and to violate those terms. It may not be fair, but those are the terms. If you do not like the terms, Microsoft tells you not to use the product and return the product for a refund.

Quote:

---

I wanna hear the other side of the story for those that agree with M$.

---

I do not agree with Microsoft's tactics for monopoly and business parctices. However, the law is the law, and when we break the law we take chances of getting caught and going to prison. It's that simple.

Ya wanna hack? Ya wanna change **** around? Go open source and hack away! They can sure use you. :D

<rant>

so how long have people been able to put restrictions on personal possessions? I mean like said earlier, I can buy a car, soup it up past the point of street legal, but I can still do it even though I can't drive it.... How can MS say that you can't modify your own personal possessions? When did EULA apply to hardware as well as software? This must have crept up because this is the first I've heard of hardware restrictions..... I can see modifying the original code could be against an EULA, but as far as total hardware mods, like sodering wires (no software uses or changed), how can they do this? Could I buy a house and sell it with a EULA? How bout a car? How bout a COMPUTER???? Where does it end? Where does it begin? Mabey I'm thinking about this all wrong, mabey one of you can clarify this for me :)

</rant>

I'm in partial agreement with meloncholy, about being able to do what ever you want with the property you own.

But check this out: The license agreement is not posted on the outside of the product, it's there for you to read once you purchase and open it. If you don't agree with the license, you can't take the product back. Most of the stores I know don't let you return electronics, especially games or anything on a cd (they will exchange defective stuff, but not new and working). So then what? You don't agree with the license, but now you can't take it back for a refund.

What I think, and again, this is just my opinion, once I spend, my hard earned money to purchase a product, and I physically take ownership, that license goes right down the toilet, because it's mine, all mine, my precious (lotr).


--PuRe

I dont think that M$ realy has any say about hacking your own machine but i do remeber seeing somewhere about them not letting you onto the xbox live network if they dectedt a modified system. As far as intelectual property goes does that mean its illegal to even unscrew the case? I agree cross. when will it all end?

Well, it's not really a hack. But it's pretty nice, nonetheless. It's an easter egg. Okay, it's for the xbox (if you honestly didn't already know). Here's how to do it.
1. Insert an audio CD and let it begin to play.
2. Stop the disk and step back in order to "Copy" selected tracks of the CD to the hard drive.
3. When the track list comes up, "Select All" and continue.
4. Then choose "New Soundtrack" as the destination for your selection.
5. Now you will enter the name of your soundtrack. You must enter the name exactly as:
<<Eggsßox>>
Including the greater than, less than, and beta symbols.
6. After you have entered the title select "Done" and the thank you message will begin. Following the message you will see a scrolling list of the Xbox Team.

Have fun! =D

When you take the case off the xbox you void the warranty. You can install a switch to turn your mod on and off, to avoid detection on the xbox live network. The chips are legally sold unflashed in the states. You can them flash them yourself, with sowtware found on variouse boards on the interent. It may be illegal to do this as alittlebitnumb pointed out. However, haven't we all copied a vhs before, or recorded something off of television and then viewed it later. This, im my opinion, isn't a battle for knowledge. It is a battle over money. The newage golden rule. "He who has the gold makes the rules."

I feel that if I want to see how things work, I can do so in the privacy of my home. I also have the right to free speech. However when you over step those bounderies you are breaking the law. In most cases you will get away with it, but if you take it too far, you will ended up in trouble.

Quote:

---

When did EULA apply to hardware as well as software?

---

Because the hardware and the product was designed by Microsoft and the people they hired, and they hold the rights to the machine design and the software within it. You get to use it, but you still cannot modify it. Like in the old days when IBM introduced the MCA slot, the hardware was protected, and was VERY expensive. As you may know the ISA slot prevailed because it was an open standard. Same goes with the Mac. The hardware for the most part is proprietary, and you have to buy a Mac from a Mac dealer and no knockoffs are made. That's why Mac is not as popular as the X86 based machine, where knockoffs can be made.

Quote:

---

The license agreement is not posted on the outside of the product, it's there for you to read once you purchase and open it.

---

You are wrong and right at the same time. Outside of Microsoft software, there is a notice that does indicate you must agree with the terms of the End User License Agreement before you are allowed to use the product. Some software goes as far as as soon as you break the seal you automatically agreed to the terms of the license (it does not matter if you read it or not). As for returning it to a store, I actually got to return a game when I showed them the license agreement and showed the clause where I was allowed to bring it back if I did not agree with the terms. I got the refund. :)

Quote:

---

What I think, and again, this is just my opinion, once I spend, my hard earned money to purchase a product, and I physically take ownership, that license goes right down the toilet, because it's mine, all mine, my precious (lotr).

---

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and many anti-DMCA advocates argue the fine points of "fair use" to fight the DMCA, and how it promotes monopolies and restrictions for users. Until the law is retracted the law is still the law. If you guys are that againt the DMCA, there is always legislation and fighting for a removal of a law.

Quote:

---

haven't we all copied a vhs before, or recorded something off of television and then viewed it later. This, im my opinion, isn't a battle for knowledge.

---

This is a terrific point of "fair use" and how the law is being challenged.

Until that time, we are expected to follow the law. When you break the law, you take chances. That's it.

i beleive this is a horrible system. If i spend 200$ for something i basically will never own. Let alone Change in ANY way. forget the M$ warrenty, who cares, i want to be able to buy my system and change it how i may, next thing you know they will sue me when i hit it with a hammer because im "modding" the box

Good point, sectac, but it is funny you mention destroying your XBox or MS software. When you destroy any MS owned proeduct, you are released from the terms under the EULA :p

So that is covered too:

Quote:

---

Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights,
Manufacturer or MS may cancel this EULA if you do not abide by
the terms and conditions contained herein. In such event, you
must destroy all copies of the SOFTWARE and all of its
component parts.

---

I am gonna attach the Windows EULA :)

Also, I have found user agreements for the XBox:

http://contracts.corporate.findlaw.c...000.11.28.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26995.html

Quote:

---

You'll note that, presuming it didn't say that in any original Xbox EULA (we haven't got one, we don't know), this is a supplementary EULA which says modification and/or creation of derivative works from the hardware is forbidded. The probability right now is that Microsoft is just giving itself wide-ranging rights with a view to doing a fairly simple thing, i.e. stopping people using hacks and mods to steal stuff. It's also unlikely to be of concern to anybody who either doesn't want to use Xbox Live (or the Xbox as a console full stop), or who is using a mod chip you can switch off.

---

I'll call MS and ask where we can find a END USER EULA. :p

This does have a lot to do with DMCA, which puts the US out of step with the rest of the World. For example, in Europe it is perfectly legal to record TV programs by any means, rip your own CDs etc., as long as it is just for your personal use.

The hardware mods to the XBox fall into a grey area, as they are often used to get round the copy protection used for games. I'm sure lots of people know how to do this, as it can just involve connecting a couple of points on the PCB, which for some reason MS left open :confused:

On the other hand, if I want to reflash/replace the ROM to use it as a *nix box, I cannot see what grounds MS has for objecting, except for the fact they don't sell *nix :p
After all I can mod my fridge, microwave, PC, car, lawnmower, dishwasher if I want to (getting a bit carried away there :D )

On the sale & return of games & related hardware, there is a very different attitude from some leading stores in the UK. They allow you to return any product for a refund within 10 days if you don't like it. You have to fill in some paperwork, so that they can see you are not abusing the system, but basically if you buy a game that doesn't match your expectations, you get your money back. Same thing applies to hardware - I purchased a new sound card for my home PC which didn't work correctly. Took it back, saying I was sure it was hardware error, and was immediately offered a refund or a replacement.
btw The new card worked perfectly, but it was nice to know they would refund my money if for some reason the card was incompatible with my system.