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my husband has been accussed of visiting an illegal site.nothing was found on our computer but they state it was him as they have his name address,password and email address.we desparately need to know can someone get an e mail to go to a different address and the victim never receive it?if so how is this possible?also will they leave a trace so the authorities can trace this [the e mail was 4 years ago.please anyone out there can you help us ? christine
Hi,
Mmm... it sounds weird for me so before going further, could you please tell me WHAT kind of website and WHO is accusing your husband? Who do you mean with "they"?
Thanks,
DKRR
Quote:
Originally posted here by -DaRK-RaiDeR-
Hi,
Mmm... it sounds weird for me so before going further, could you please tell me WHAT kind of website and WHO is accusing your husband? Who do you mean with "they"?
Thanks,
DKRR
What operating system and email client you use would also be helpful.
We don't mean to pry, but the more information you give us the more we might be able to help you. WHAT your husband is accused of, for example, might provide clues as to how your system might have been compromised.
It is very easy to "join" a website using some one else's details, or even totally fictitious details. (Unless credit card details are required, and even that can be achieved)
At a previous company I worked for we had a problem with disgruntled employees registering their manager's business e-mail to receive porn mail.
There is very little that can be done to prevent this kind of situation evolving that is why evidence of this nature would need to be backed up with certain proof that the person concerned actually submitted these details, and actively connected to and used the site.
This proof would have to be gathered from the PC concerned, the site concerned, and the business responsible for the connection i.e. the user's ISP connection logs. Currently this information can only be collected after a warrant has be issued to the appropriate law enforcement agencies
I agree with -DaRK-RaiDeR- in that you would need to supply further information regarding "who" and "why" and what the accusations are.
Golam
I dont think that criminal charges could be laid on to someone based purely on their username and an email address, for I would consider these details "public" information. Even his password is relativly easy to obtain.
I would be pretty confident that the authorities would also be aware of this, and if they are scaring you based on what they have now (a username, password and email addy) I would tell them to go jump.
I would think to convict someone, at the very minimum, they would need IP Addresses, ISP/Webserver logs, and locally stored information before they could convict someone.
even with all that info you can still get off as was done HERE
I you're asking what I think you are (I'm a little confused whether the e-mail in question was sent from or to you, I'm assuming from), yes the send adress of an e-mail can be forged, and quite easily. Its known as "spoofing" there are MANY mailers out there that will allow you to send mails anonymously or from whatever send adress you want. The true sender can be very difficult to track and must be tracked through each mailer that realyed the message. As for name and password, also easily obtainable, although the true sender may have just used your name and e-mail and used his own password when registering. As previously stated however, none of this is considered identification or is used as evidence by any courts I'm aware of, one needs at least credit card charges or logs (As you say the infraction was 4 years ago, any logs are almost certainly gone or cannot be considered forensic evidence at this late of time) Basically, if thats all they have, they dont have a case.
-Maestr0
I have a similar problem. I received a bill for pay per use webpage viewing of porn. The company billing me was Alyon Technologies. They claim they know who to send the bill to by tracing the name and address through the phoneline. The only problem is that the phone is in my name and the bill came to my husband. I have dialup through msn. Now my husband denies doing this. So if he did't do it, I figure someone tapped into my system or got my info and used it. I'm not sure if my husband is lying of not. But I'd like to have proof either way. I'm not really looking to convict hackers, just give myself peace of mind. I found evidence on my temporary internet files of porn viewing at the time of the charge. My husband claims a porn popup ad did pop up that morning but he clicked it away. He says about three weeks ago a bunch of porn popups popped up and he clicked them all away. I also found evidence on my temporary files of porn sites on that day. Is there someway to verify where the sites were actually viewed from? If someone else was using my info or hacking my computer would it show up on my temporary internet files? Would popups that were not opened show up on my temporary file? I don't know alot about computers but I've tried everything I can think of. Help if you have any info for me. Thanks
tallygirl
No company, website, what so ever can just charge you without giving a clear remark that it's a paysite if you continu, or that they install a proggie that dials out to the caribbeans and that sort of stuff. Someone, somehow or didn't pay attention and filled out a form, apply something (maybe without knowing ).
Anyway the arguement that that company would have traced you through a phoneline is not possible without proper authorization of police and/or isp (here in belgium it is). Or they traced down an ip (then they have only an ip and no e-mail, adress without consent of the isp, or they too did some illegal actions...
just my 2 cents
Christine,Quote:
my husband has been accussed of visiting an illegal site.nothing was found on our computer but they state it was him as they have his name address,password and email address .we desparately need to know can someone get an e mail to go to a different address and the victim never receive it?if so how is this possible?also will they leave a trace so the authorities can trace this [the e mail was 4 years ago.please anyone out there can you help us ? christine
do u mean that police came to ur home and checked the puter?
What sort of illegal site had been visited? Child abuse & porn?
u may be in big trouble only with rumors, but u or ur husband may be responsible of smth, if so I'd not like 2 give any help.
My only advice is to fully cooperate with autorities they have IT experts who will quickly find the truth ...
If u don't trust them u can pay for an expert (I found this one on google http://www.securityoffice.com/)
I'm totally agree with u Networker.Quote:
u may be in big trouble only with rumors, but u or ur husband may be responsible of smth, if so I'd not like 2 give any help.
Truth will be discovered... and to cooperate is surely the best thing.Quote:
My only advice is to fully cooperate with autorities they have IT experts who will quickly find the truth ...
Did you contact the company ? it is most likely your husband he probably is just embarresed to say most hackers that card dont buy porno with the cc numbers the ones i have seen sell them for some reason but IMHOQuote:
I have a similar problem. I received a bill for pay per use webpage viewing of porn. The company billing me was Alyon Technologies. They claim they know who to send the bill to by tracing the name and address through the phoneline. The only problem is that the phone is in my name and the bill came to my husband. I have dialup through msn. Now my husband denies doing this. So if he did't do it, I figure someone tapped into my system or got my info and used it. I'm not sure if my husband is lying of not. But I'd like to have proof either way. I'm not really looking to convict hackers, just give myself peace of mind. I found evidence on my temporary internet files of porn viewing at the time of the charge. My husband claims a porn popup ad did pop up that morning but he clicked it away. He says about three weeks ago a bunch of porn popups popped up and he clicked them all away. I also found evidence on my temporary files of porn sites on that day. Is there someway to verify where the sites were actually viewed from? If someone else was using my info or hacking my computer would it show up on my temporary internet files? Would popups that were not opened show up on my temporary file? I don't know alot about computers but I've tried everything I can think of. Help if you have any info for me. Thanks
just cancel the acount on your card just to be safe and get filtering software for your husband ;)
Hmm touchy a 4 year old email will be really hard to track since static ip's werent around as much then and i doubt isp's will have logs from 4 years ago if nothing was found on the computer you have nothing to worry aboutQuote:
my husband has been accussed of visiting an illegal site.nothing was found on our computer but they state it was him as they have his name address,password and email address.we desparately need to know can someone get an e mail to go to a different address and the victim never receive it?if so how is this possible?also will they leave a trace so the authorities can trace this [the e mail was 4 years ago.please anyone out there can you help us ? christine
many thanks for all the replies ive had and this is the full account of what happened,as you can tell me and my husband are no experts and that is why we need help.he is accussed of accesing the landslide site in 1999.this shows images of child porn.the computer we have now has been checked by the police and no images where found at all,however this is not the computer we had 4 years ago.he uses the net for loads of things and has given his credit card details to over 40 sites.the police have his name address.credit card details and e mail address.he is innocent but without more knowledge we dont understand how someone could have done this?they state that it must be him as his details were used.if anyone can help us then we will always be grateful.if someone used his details the police recken a password would have been sent to access the site,how can someone use his details and get an e mail sent to an address so we never even knew about it?.the isp is freeserve[an english company] will they be able to show his innocence as they must have records even 4 years ago.can they show that this site was accessed via a different phone line?he is in a terrible state as all the evidence is his but we both know he didnt do it.please please help us with your knowledge of how computer work,manymany thanks
Quote:
Originally posted here by tallygirl
I have a similar problem. I received a bill for pay per use webpage viewing of porn. The company billing me was Alyon Technologies. They claim they know who to send the bill to by tracing the name and address through the phoneline. The only problem is that the phone is in my name and the bill came to my husband. I have dialup through msn. Now my husband denies doing this. So if he did't do it, I figure someone tapped into my system or got my info and used it. I'm not sure if my husband is lying of not. But I'd like to have proof either way. I'm not really looking to convict hackers, just give myself peace of mind. I found evidence on my temporary internet files of porn viewing at the time of the charge. My husband claims a porn popup ad did pop up that morning but he clicked it away. He says about three weeks ago a bunch of porn popups popped up and he clicked them all away. I also found evidence on my temporary files of porn sites on that day. Is there someway to verify where the sites were actually viewed from? If someone else was using my info or hacking my computer would it show up on my temporary internet files? Would popups that were not opened show up on my temporary file? I don't know alot about computers but I've tried everything I can think of. Help if you have any info for me. Thanks
Well, putting a keylogger on your computer would be one way of seeing what he was doing online....normally i would be against this but if i read correctly you said YOU paid for it, so hes using YOUR connection, which is a little different. then when hes done you can check the logs and see what sites hes going to.
For those things to be in the temp...im thinking NO he wouldv had to go to the sites for that to actually show up.
The reason the police are pursuing this is that they now have access to all material on the landslide web site - which obviously includes all billing information, due to a recent criminal investigation. It is extremely unlikely that freeserve have any records of activity at that time, as this was before the RIP act came into power, which supposedly requires ISPs (like freeserve) to retain records for 7 years. Probably not relevant to your situation, but the police do not need a warrant or search order to request this information.Quote:
Originally posted here by collinson
many thanks for all the replies ive had and this is the full account of what happened,as you can tell me and my husband are no experts and that is why we need help.he is accussed of accesing the landslide site in 1999.this shows images of child porn.the computer we have now has been checked by the police and no images where found at all,however this is not the computer we had 4 years ago.he uses the net for loads of things and has given his credit card details to over 40 sites.the police have his name address.credit card details and e mail address.he is innocent but without more knowledge we dont understand how someone could have done this?they state that it must be him as his details were used.if anyone can help us then we will always be grateful.if someone used his details the police recken a password would have been sent to access the site,how can someone use his details and get an e mail sent to an address so we never even knew about it?.the isp is freeserve[an english company] will they be able to show his innocence as they must have records even 4 years ago.can they show that this site was accessed via a different phone line?he is in a terrible state as all the evidence is his but we both know he didnt do it.please please help us with your knowledge of how computer work,manymany thanks
The ways that this information could have been acquired are legion.
On the PC side, it's possible that one of the web sites you subscribed to has itself been compromised in the past, making details available to the people who hacked it.
You'd need a list of the sites to provide to the police, suggesting this may a possibility.
Alternatively, if you have installed some unknown software in the past, this could have included a 'keylogger'. This piece of software doesn't affect the way your PC works, but records certain things you type in at the keyboard (e.g credit card info, name, address etc.).
At some future date, this can be acquired by another party.
If you were naive enough to send this information in a normal email (i.e. not encrypted), then someone else could well have read it. Alternatively, if you entered this information on a non secure web site (i.i. one that starts with http://, rather than https://), then the same thing applies.
One other remote possibility is that if someone had a serious grudge, then you can hire a private detective, who will probably be able to find out this information about anyone in the UK.
You'd really need the original PC to try and prove or disprove any of this.
I'm really not sure how clued up the police are when it comes to these matters.
I'd suggest that you ask to speak to someone from the police who understands the technology behind this, and take it from there ......
I can't remember who it was, but I believe there has been one person in the UK who was found innocent of this - it turned out it this case it was a disgruntled employer who was using his bosses details.
I'm obviously taking this post at face value, so the one thing you must do is to either produce your credit card records for that time, or request that the credit card company sends you a copy, or ideally ask the police to do it if you have nothing to hide.
Any reputable credit card company will still have this information on their computer (legal requirement), which would prove things one way or the other. If your card wasn't used for this, then it means that whilst you might have been registered, you didn't actually download any child porn.
collinson, I think the first thing you want to do,is do some research on Identity Theft. This may be the problem you and your Husband are suffering with. Here are a couple of resources which outline how it happens and what happens to the victims.
http://www.consumer.gov/idtheft/
http://www.identitytheft.org/
http://www.privacyrights.org/identity.htm
(These are just a few, a google search will find you many others)
I also recommend you contact a Lawyer that has some knowledge of ID Theft and computer fraud. I know this may not be much to go on, but as you have said, your husband is innocent and therefore Identity Theft may be what is happening to you.
Good Luck.
Christine,
2 b franc, I think there is almost no chance of an existing ISP networking log database smwhere that could prove u r innocent....
For the mail address, it could have been just filled into the database but never been used. For instance here in AO:Quote:
how can someone use his details and get an e mail sent to an address so we never even knew about it?
for subscription u can use a anonymous mail (such as hotmail) to recieve the password. Then once u recieve the password to access the site, u have the opportunity to change the referenced mail address... if site options r correctly set (go to edit profile) never recieve any if you didn't select options.
I mean that even if you never recieved any mail, that does not mean that smone is receiving child porn through your mail address.
I think this scenario is realistic! (comment anyone?)
To me the only chance u've got to definitly prove u r innocent is in the child porn site server:
- if by any chance they log the full profile history
In that case there is 2possibility:
- the police sees that the mail address had been changed => u r innocent!
the police sees that the mail address had not been changed => either the log file had been hacked or ur husband is guilty...
I sincerly hope ur husdand is innocent ... & won't support the shame of smth he shouldn't
Collinson: OK.... Let's analyze the situation and see how big the problem may be.......
To boil it down..... Your husband, allegedly, used a different computer, four years ago to access a kiddie porn site. The police have discovered that information, presumably, from the logs/records of the kiddie porn site itself, which they have probably "busted" in order to get access to that information. Clearly, neither yourself nor the police have access to the computer that was, allegedly, actually used in this "crime" since they would have looked at that one.
Now, we have two possibilities:-
1. Your husband did it
2. Your husband didn't do it
Not helpful, I know...... But there are some factors that need to be taken into account.
1. Since the police have no access to the computer that the "crime" was allegedly committed on they have no proof for or against the fact that it is the actual computer. If you know where that computer is you may be able to prove your innocence if the hard drive was not subsequently formatted. If it was subsequently formatted the "evidence" may still be there but the cost to extract it may well exceed the lengths the police would be willing to go to prove _either_ guilt or innocence though it might be cost effective for you to try depending upon how much trouble the police/court may try to place your husband in. Of course, the amount of actual, (not reported.... actual), effort that your husband puts in to try to get that computer back would speak volumes about his guilt or innocence.
2. Since it is entirely possible that you husband actually did visit that site, pay for it and use it for a period I would suggest that it may have been more inquisitiveness _or_ somewhat deceptive marketing of the site, (not being too "up-front" about the nature of some of the porn) and now he is too embarrassed to admit it. Mitigating factors here are that there is _no_ evidence, (per the police), of porn on the current computer, (the longer you have had that computer the better.... find the receipt... It indicates bith inquisitiveness and/or false marketing) and that the police may have archived the site and it's marketing while they were investigating it back then. If they did you need to look for stuff that was not forthright about the nature of the content. It may be embarrasing to hubbie but embarrassment in his own home may be preferable to being embarrassed in Wormwood Scrubs if you get my point........
(OK, thats the tougher stuff out of the way)........ ;)
3. Since the police do not have the original computer they cannot prove that it had not been compromised. If they cannot prove that it wasn't compromised _and_ they cannot prove that the computer that committed the "crime" was ever in your house, (they don't have any evidence to point to that since they don't have the original), it is hard to refute the possibility that it was not your husband. If your computer was compromised then someone could have been working from it in the background while your husband was innocently online checking the pools and using information they had gleaned from the computer to access the porn site. This happens every minute of every day - people innocently surf the net while a malicious user is using the same computer for illegal activity. I would suggest that this scenario, while less likely than the next, is still possible and adds doubt to the case.
4. You state, and can probably prove, that your hubbie has scattered his credentials far and wide in cyberspace. Credit card numbers, name, address, email address, passwords etc. are stored on _every_ single one of those sites. Which one or ones can state, hand held to the Bible, that they have never been compromised????? None!!!! Period. If they do, they are lying, Period! That being the case there is further doubt about the claims of the police that your husband was involved.
Unless they can get to the original computer and find the evidence you need to _prove_ it was that computer, (which still does not technically prove it was your husband - it could have been you.......), then there is definitely sufficient there for you to cast doubt on the police's assertions that your husband is the guilty party. Any reasonable lawyer with competent IT advice could get this thrown out before it even reaches the court.
I would have to agree with Tiger Shark. In this day and age the evidence you have told us they have would be considered circumstantial. Its not going to hold much weight in court. If you have a halfway decent attourney he should have some people he can bring to court to use as "expert witnesses". People who are very knowlegble in this kind of thing. It may be expensive but compared to the alternative i would have to say spend the money. At least every lawyer i have had contact with had people he could call in on difrent cases.
Just to add to this debate, afaik the 'landslide' site itself was not strictly illegal (could be wrong there, never having looked at it, but at the very least it was highly dubious).
Also, my understanding is that it did require you to register your credit card details.
Which is how it made its money, and if you clicked on links on the site then your credit card details would have been used to access illegal, very sick sites. Something I'm sure no one here would condone.
That's my understanding from looking at the news reports still available on the net.
And that is why your credit card statements are important for this time period.
come on guys...we all know people (or at least i do) that would spend all day fishing for account info and use it to hack other computers and sign up for porn sites. it was a way of life for some
im not sure of the laws in the uk reguarding this. does the law forbid anyone from registering with such a site or is it the downloading and posession of kiddie porn thats expressed in the law. From what ive gathered all they have is credit card information etc and no record or proof of anything else.
Your new computer was found clean. i would think a child pervert would take and hide his/her stash of pics on it first thing. its hard to believe someone like that would just forget about it just because they got a new computer. i hope you've talked to a lawer but it seems to me with the insecuritys in computers 4 years ago, the lack in general of security knowledge at that time combined with the lack of hard evidence against you the burden of proof is on them.
what operating system was on the old computer and how was it set up. was finnancial info stored on it. did many people have access to it. anyone that had access to it could have gotten your passwords with ease using a program like 'snitch'.
when i think of the number of ways someone could have gotten your information coupled with the fact that there was nothing on your computer...i have to side with you.
Tedob1 is right - the knowledge I have of police raids on paedophiles and the like - they always turn up scores of images, documents and other evidence of their nefarious activities.
These people tend to covert their collections and rarely part with them, and it is generally not a passing whim, it is an obession - so there is generally tons of evidence pointing to their activities. Hence your visit from the constabulary.
Good advice has already been given here but I will stress it again, get expert legal advice before speaking to the investigating officers again - I really think they are drawing a long bow in trying to make the connection - but given the evidence in their possession it was something that they had to check.
many many thanks for all your advise so far [my husband is innocent and has been a victim of internet crime],he just didnt realise how easy it is for others to get his details and use them, we are grateful for your help.
I fail to see how we helped. We merely analysed the situation and left you to deal with the problem.Quote:
many many thanks for all your advise so far [my husband is innocent and has been a victim of internet crime],he just didnt realise how easy it is for others to get his details and use them, we are grateful for your help.
Meh...
If I were you I'd make a strong stand against internet crime and identity theft, this may show the police that you are worried, and know about the situation, and did your homework, and that you want to end all of this - plus stop it from ever happening to anybody again.
Just my two cents.
you have helped by telling us how this may have occurred,we are both novices when it comes to the internet and any further help such as useful web sites or even possible explanations are of great benefit to us .
I believe the law here in the UK is that it is not illegal to register with such a site.
There is no specific IT legislation - it is just covered by normal English common law.
Which means it is an offence to posses child porn i.e. any pictures downloaded, which is why the police are keen to see the original PC (or rather the hard disk that was in it).
I believe the situation with this site was that whilst you had to provide credit card details, no charge was made to used to access the main site. Hence no record on your credit card.
And given that it is possible that someone else did this anyway, the fact that the police say that you must have received a password to access the site doesn’t mean anything at all.
How do they know it was you who registered in the first place, rather than someone else who had access to your personal information?
Even if you did receive such an email, so what? It doesn’t mean that you used the password.
A possible scenario is that someone else intercepted the password and used it themselves.
Without access to your PC, or any sort of traffic logs, this is an empty accusation.
A transaction against your credit card would only happen if it had been used to access one of the links on the site, which would almost certainly have contained highly illegal images. If there are transactions on your credit card from one of the companies involved, this would obviously look very suspicious, as most people would query an unauthorised transaction on their credit card.
Without this, I can’t see any evidence at all.
Just my opinion of course - if the police insist on pursuing it make sure you get an IT literate solicitor to argue your case.
Here's another way 'your' credit card was used (without your knowledge)
Last week I scuffled with an intruder in our complex. He was younger, and quicker and got away. But I got his knapsack. When the Police opened it - it was full of MAIL of all sorts, including 3 x 'Pre-approved' credit cards from various banks. The Police told me this was common.
Those stolen credit cards could be activated by anyone - and used for any purchases, anywhere.
After I have read this entire thread I have decided that it is full of very valuable info. We all now know (if we didnt know before)
1. never give out passwords, usernames, etc..
2. Dont look at kiddie porn
3. never send out info over non secure webpages.
4. tear up all credit card things that come to you in the mail
5. Dont install programs if you dont know what they do.
6. Know the basics of the laws that govern your activities.
7. Cooperate with police.
8. and for those of us who dont want to follow the rules, format you computer lots, inbetween formats delete temps and cookies. and if necessary destroy hard drives. =) good thread in my opinion. everyone that posted (aside from me) had something valuble to say. good job everyone.
Formatting your HD is still no guarantee to keep you from getting into trouble if you really want to not follow the rules your best bet is to get a tool that will overwrite all sectors on your HD. These tools exist and I think McAffee have one in there tool set. Also i think there is one in Norton utilities.
Peter
Another possibility is that the credit card info that he did give out to the sites may have come back to haunt him. Maybe he gave his credict card info to not kiddie porn, but some Admin who does?...
For the Admin would have all he needs once your husband pressed that "enter" key.