OMG! Micro$oft spying on us???

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June 1st, 2003, 02:57 AM
axejammer

OMG! Micro$oft spying on us???

hehe i expect you hotmail people to bite

suppose you use 2 or more hotmail accounts: one personal, one to register with web sites, etc............
now here's an excerpt from a hotmail html session info exchanged between Outlook Express and the hotmail server when you try to read your email from any ONE of your mailboxes:
<<----------------------------------------------------
5/31/2003 21:39:16 From Local
PROPFIND http://bay7.oe.hotmail.com/cgi-bin/h...l.com/folders/ HTTP/1.0
Depth: 1,noroot
Content-Type: text/xml
Brief: t
X-Timestamp: folders=1454282897,ACTIVE=1154213110
Accept-CharSet: Windows-1252
User-Agent: Outlook-Express/5.5 (MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0; TmstmpExt)
Host: bay7.oe.hotmail.com
Content-Length: 265
Pragma: no-cache
Cookie: MSPAuth=4hUA2lNpiD6qjhDJT1wcXgEALW3mhEJWub5SHzhUL4zCGEV%21cYs6ViPDrN%21TVGKX9ULT4PzJswoYxY2yYbF5CtCw%24%24; MSPProf=4mOez%2aTDbCQYD2gzgk1Bf3kxO7PHCcv%21xDh6Q069il%21FzjbzrAQhJAUtvX9nPobu4hVCDICzEIz8eiqIVt5pJlK36iRUlLSWUws92jFIuKGHNJMda%21%2aEok4CVLAmFk7XgOVOx4dx%21UlRx4UG1IFtAgbpmJJcdgmmEySsGiW47doa0%24; HMSatchmo=0; HMSC0899=217FIRST_ACCOUNT%40hotmail%2ecomWIbELz9AkdTZTDj8CbwAx%2aSFIQ%2aU%2a646cMGvbmpTjqQ9uS1D228LNCQ%21tqMV71uxliQ4tBC9s4s%2aLRmakGW%2150%2aajA7KyJI%21vMM%2aYdzJ7kxkpSzm6o76mGPla5ry6opdCHyWvplGDh2zhXQK7WHxjfkhlZiApuC1TkqP7E6VJ2hRsFnPsj7gM1Cgr1FRwWVnnMoELj5cnp6i05tJ6En3UAVMb3%2ad52XQbXukjglUs%21eT%21n7E8CIud3dk1ew9LVmsI0cfWZa4t77vYqVCLOIS5GU5fXYqrMozdcehJP9QfijBrvdRwf1ypsGOBLoeV4wnD9agDvay7%21k9NMjtAJbhiLsw9NglVKnDXp0VSk7jBCd5v8OhTEywOO%21%2aQ78OWLvio1qy7o2DPTUyx5lKaBuwNA%24%24; HMSatchmo=0; HMMS2954=26ECB06078A512C3483E507574F73AF6B68BCAFEE62CA167C697355E91D72ED43135033ED213E8EE0064AF8762B90591DDC8854050DF1F6DF5750106B447B0DBA7F81CF1DBDDF57C; OE_UserSECOND_ACCOUNT_hotmail.com=1154520116; OE_UserTHIRD_ACCOUNT_hotmail.com=1152551481; OE_UserFIRST_ACCOUNT_hotmail.com=1254534247
Authorization: Digest username="[email protected]", realm="hotmail.com", qop="auth", algorithm="MD5", uri="/cgi-bin/hmdata/[email protected]/folders/", nonce="MTA1NDQyNzg3MjoyNzMwMjYyZjY4YjhjYzY5YTdjMjc4N2MxZWRiNDQxYw==", nc=00000002, cnonce="995921b29b3857b130ec13aed2bb99d1", response="182b7d2bebeaf41e563bdeb55e51ca59"
Proxy-Connection: Close
Connection: Close
---------------------------------------------------->>
you may notice that I have three accounts with hotmail, and for some reason, information about ALL of them is sent to the server when I've only requested to check the email of ONE account!

why is all this info sent together i wonder??
June 1st, 2003, 04:17 AM
FAQ

I would imagine it's another reason to clear your cookies after the end of a session? :confused:
June 1st, 2003, 08:56 AM
ii-monk

And remember to be prompt or Decline third party cookies. Ads and things like that.
June 1st, 2003, 03:09 PM
bintara

hmmmm....gonna scan microsoft for that.. :P
June 1st, 2003, 07:15 PM
ammo

Humm... Ok, maybe it's just me but I don't see what you're complaining about?!

Ammo
June 1st, 2003, 09:15 PM
avdven

Quote:

you may notice that I have three accounts with hotmail, and for some reason, information about ALL of them is sent to the server when I've only requested to check the email of ONE account!

why is all this info sent together i wonder??

It has to do with how Microsoft Outlook/Outlook Express handles web-based accounts. It's not that they're spying on you (well, at least not in the way that you seem to think), but it's simply how the program keeps track of which Hotmail account is being accessed.

AJ
June 1st, 2003, 09:55 PM
axejammer

Quote:

Originally posted here by ammo
Humm... Ok, maybe it's just me but I don't see what you're complaining about?!

Ammo

sorry i thought it was pretty obvious.

most people use hotmail to stay anonymous so they don't want their true identity to be associated with any of their "anonymous" hotmail accounts.

i use 2 "anonymous" hotmail accounts and another one that holds my real name before the @ sign.

i wish microsoft would respect my privacy and not gather information about my real identity by associating the email address that holds my real name with all the other so-called "anonymous" email addresses.

when i try to check my email from my "true" mailbox, outlook sends information about all other accounts that i have with them, including the "anonymous" ones which allows them to associate the real you with the anonymous emails and could help them to create your profile by monitoring all emails that you receive in all mailboxes.

i think outlook should limit itself to sending information about the mailbox that i'm checking, and not about all my accounts at once, since i was specifically requested only one mailbox to be checked.

i hope this clarifies my point
June 2nd, 2003, 02:33 AM
ammo

Hum, right...
Don't you think that if they really wanted to "profile" and spy on you they'd just cross-reference your IP with account logons?
I mean, jumping from "OE logs on to all hotmail accounts at once" to "OMG MS is spying on me!!!" is a pretty big step to make...

Besides, if you're really so worried about your pricacy, you might want to read the privacy statements from msn and ms passport ... You might not want to use hotmail at all after that!

Anyways...

Ammo
June 2nd, 2003, 04:43 AM
moxnix

Besides, if you're really so worried about your pricacy, you might want to read the privacy statements from msn and ms passport ... You might not want to use hotmail at all after that!

Your right.....M$N has (by their privacy statement) the right to use, make use of, almost anything you post, store, or transmit over M$N networks.

They also track your useage of their products, such as the Windows Media Player.

Besides, if you're really so worried about your pricacy, you might want to read the privacy statements from msn and ms passport ... You might not want to use hotmail at all after that!

Your right.....M$N has (by their privacy statement) the right to use, make use of, almost anything you post, store, or transmit over M$N networks.

They also track your useage of their products, such as the Windows Media Player.

Quote:

Besides, if you're really so worried about your pricacy, you might want to read the privacy statements from msn and ms passport ... You might not want to use hotmail at all after that!

Your right.....M$N has (by their privacy statement) the right to use, make use of, almost anything you post, store, or transmit over M$N networks.

They also track your useage of their products, such as the Windows Media Player

Sorry....I'll get it right -- one of these days
June 2nd, 2003, 05:10 AM
daxmax

You have to remember that when you access a particular domain all cookies from that domain will be stored in one place.
So if you access hotmail.com and login. The login information ( if you click on Remember me) will store the info to your browser's cookie.
Any other access to hotmail.com will always use the same cookie file which means all info is stored on the same cookie. The system all that it does is use these cookies to remember you.
Maybe you should either
a. use no cookies for that site.
b. look at your prefs in your hotmail account.
c. Use different browsers to view different sites
d. Delete your cookies for M$N.
June 2nd, 2003, 05:25 AM
Spyder32

Quote:

Originally posted here by daxmax
You have to remember that when you access a particular domain all cookies from that domain will be stored in one place.
So if you access hotmail.com and login. The login information ( if you click on Remember me) will store the info to your browser's cookie.

Good call. The information you access from any domain will all be in one cookie file on your computer, no matter from what login name or account, all is stored in that one file. So, it's not so much spying (although the chances of the information being altered, for any reason, is there) as it is making your cookie information neat and possible to gather quicker.
June 2nd, 2003, 02:29 PM
axejammer

Quote:

Originally posted here by daxmax
You have to remember that when you access a particular domain all cookies from that domain will be stored in one place.
So if you access hotmail.com and login. The login information ( if you click on Remember me) will store the info to your browser's cookie.
Any other access to hotmail.com will always use the same cookie file which means all info is stored on the same cookie. The system all that it does is use these cookies to remember you.
Maybe you should either
a. use no cookies for that site.
b. look at your prefs in your hotmail account.
c. Use different browsers to view different sites
d. Delete your cookies for M$N.

good point. i think you have no choice but to use cookies with hotmail.
any of you have info about building outlook express plugins? i mean outlook express, not microsoft outlook. i couldn't find much info on the subject.
also do you guys know of any way of intercepting the cookie requests and have a process handle them instead of letting them at the discretion of IE/outlook?

Quote:

Originally posted here by ammo
Hum, right...
Don't you think that if they really wanted to "profile" and spy on you they'd just cross-reference your IP with account logons?

- there are many public places with hotmail access. how smart would it be to cross-reference by IP hundreds of mailboxes.
- there are NAT devices used in corporations that prevent them to locate and track a single computer. via NAT you may have a different IP when you log into your next hotmail account.
- also with dialup an IP is being re-used by others as part of a DHCP pool so they would actually cross-reference a network instead of a single computer.
- I could use changeable proxies too... so I DO have choices in that case.

but when you use outlook and hit "Send / Receive All" you have no way of preventing the cross-reference that's made via cookie to be sent along to them. they retrieve the whole cookie. and you MUST use cookies with hotmail

(at first I thought that I was checking only ONE email address but actually I've checked the others before, so the cookie had info about the other accounts already)

Quote:

I mean, jumping from "OE logs on to all hotmail accounts at once" to "OMG MS is spying on me!!!" is a pretty big step to make...

actually it was ":D OMG! M$ spying on us???" if you can feel the ironic difference... i thought others may want to know, talk, and scan the damn M$ until their servers go down :)

Quote:

Besides, if you're really so worried about your pricacy, you might want to read the privacy statements from msn and ms passport ... You might not want to use hotmail at all after that!

Anyways...

Ammo

i really don't care about them snooping my emails as long as they can't associate the contents with my true identity. they can profile a ghost as much as they want.
again, my point was that cookies help them cross-reference all my accounts so they could build a profile of me as a person by knowing all my accounts at once including the one bearing my name. there's no such thing in their privacy statement saying that they WILL cross-reference all my accounts with them via cookies. how do i know that they don't sell my profile info to spammers or agencies or FBI or CIA or even Bush may see my emails and call my wife to tell her that I surfed for porn! OMG!

why do I still use hotmail? cause i can read my emails with the same client that i use for pop3 accounts -outlook- and that's already a commodity for fat as$es like me :)

but it's not only about me, there are millions of users who use to think they're "anonymous" behind hotmail. since it's free and useable from outlook most want to use it AND keep their privacy. some could be public persons, CEOs whatever and they want to have a private life too