Hacking Myths

Ok, after reading the 100th post detailing some totally impractical super hacking method I thought it might be good to compile a list of all the myths out there and what the case really is. Hopefully this will allow everyone to make more informed decisions (or at least stop posts that are not really of much value).

so, on with the start of the list..

1) Its easy to sniff traffic and steal passwords, or session hijack across the internet - Ok, this one is all over the place, on an internal LAN its highly possible, but across the internet it would require the attacker to take over one of the routers you are passing through and sniff the traffic that way, then hijack the session. Once the packet leaves that first router there is no way to tell where its going after that until it hits the targets external router.

2) Windows is easier to hack then Linux - (sure to raise a few stirs with this one) ok, if you secure Windows it will be secure, if you secure Linux it will be secure, if you don`t secure them then you can attack them with a high degree of success.

3) Organisations connected to the internet leave all kinds of fun ports open for you to break into - Many organisations have decent administrators who do implement security measures so writing something along the lines of "connect to telnet, it will be open" just isn`t the case.

4) You can hack Windows across the net using Netbios - Ok, this is only the case if a Windows box is unsecured and attached the net. Beyond that firewalls will be in place, routers will be in the way, and some People will disable netbios and remove all those default shares you keep hearing about.

5) Open Ports mean you are vulnerable - If you are running a web server you are going to have Port 80 open, so running a port scanner isn`t going to tell you anything other then that port 80 is open. You need to run a vulnerability scanner to find out if your webserver is vulnerable to any attacks.

6) There are 10000000000 Viruses out there - Ok everytime a virus comes out (lets call it "Blue Virus" for discussion purposes) thats a virus, now, everytime someone makes any changes to "blue Virus" even if its just to make it display "hell0" rather then "hello" that counts as a new virus. Now, I think that tends to overestimate things a little.


Ok, thats a start, hopefully other people will add more, or else I`ll just keep on writing stuff.

I hope that someone finds this useful.

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(or at least stop posts that are not really of much value).

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Good luck. Although my post isn't of much value is it :D

Excellent start though. You covered the most common things I hear. If I come up with anything else, I will add it.

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if you secure Windows it will be secure, if you secure Linux it will be secure

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i dont think you can secure s system that it WILL be secure...if someones want to break in he will... there alwasy a way ....

this aint much value either just adding my opinion :)

I think you're kind of missing the point Memory. My Windows box is about 100x more secure than any *nix box I had would be, simply because I know Windows, and I know what to do with Windows. You give me Linux and I'm gonna be wide open because I don't know what to do with it. It depends on what you're comfortable with and what you know. People can argue all day long about which is the better/more secure OS, but if you are dealing with something you don't know and don't know what to do with, it's not gonna matter one way or the other, you're going to be vulnerable.

Although it's also entirely possible that I'm the one missing the point. :)

I tend to agree with memory debwalin. No matter how secure you think you have your box it can alwasy be broken into. Theres always a back way or one little option you forgot.

Just like memory said.

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if someones want to break in he will... there alwasy a way ....

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Thats what I think.

I think both memory and cheyenne are missing the point. Look at the original post...

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Windows is easier to hack then Linux

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The point was, windows is NOT easier to hack then linux. If an admin knows their job, both operating systems will have the EXACT same ammount of security.
There was never any mention of perfect security. Even openBSD which went almost 6 years without a remote exploit had one show up in the last 6 months or so (apache chunk exploit...don't remember release date).

and if you want to get technical, then NOTHING is ever secure. There is always a way to rob a bank. If someone is determined enough, they will find a way into the most secure area of the pentagon. If you properly secure your machine, then it is often quite a lot easie to pick a lock on the house and break in to get whatever information that you want then it is to actually hack the machine.

Along with this post... if you are interested... here is some worthwhile reading...

Malware Myths and Misinformation, Part One: Windows, Mac, Exchange, and IIS

Malware Myths and Misinformation, Part Two: Attachments, AV Software and Firewalls

Ten Windows Password Myths

Excellent,
I have 2 more point for u:
7) Firewalls keep me out of danger - the firewall is a very useful tool, but its scope is to follow a list of rules. An attack may use an firawall hole or the firewall management itself to intrude the protected system.

8) I've been hacked & I don't care - (don't laugh, sm1 said it!) You don't have any sensitive information on the puter, u use it exclusively for games and dowloading mp3 & divx with P2P, u know there is great chance to be hacked but u don"t care.
First you r a danger for the whole IP community, bcoz u'll be participating into wild DDoS.
Secondly, u'll be kicked of a chatroom by the first stupid script kiddie if he decided to.
Third, sm1 can use ur puter to hack the FBI and u may go to jail....

9) Just because you root a box you are a hacker

10) You can spoof your IP AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL BY SPOOFING IT

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Originally posted here by wassup
9) Just because you root a box you are a hacker

10) You can spoof your IP AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL BY SPOOFING IT

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Did you notice that everyone else who listed items got a lot of greenies so that's why you did it??? Well don't just give a point, follow everyone elses example... if you are going to give us something them include proof, or at least an explanation....

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dont think you can secure s system that it WILL be secure...if someones want to break in he will... there alwasy a way ....

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Well i agree with memory, by definiton a network or computer connected to one is insecure no matter what the security. The connection is for some type of client or server share therefore there is access no matter what the security.

A network is a series of interconnected sytems utilizing shared resouces.

ergo= a network is insecure.

Look at Soulemans post for an answer to your question. The whole point was that if you leave a Linux box open it will be less secure then a Windows box that you have tried to secured. Now yes there is the age old arguement that you can never truly secure something to the point where no one can get in except for someone who you trust (but then that goes into issues other then Technical ones), so we are really talking in relative terms, that is one being more secure then the other depending on who secures it.

And to comment on an earlier post, I think IP spoofing can be useful on internal LANS, not much use across the net unless you can alter routing tables etc... or of course when you use decoys in an NMAP scan, not sure if you want to call that spoofing though.

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Originally posted here by R0n1n

6) There are 10000000000 Viruses out there - Ok everytime a virus comes out (lets call it "Blue Virus" for discussion purposes) thats a virus, now, everytime someone makes any changes to "blue Virus" even if its just to make it display "hell0" rather then "hello" that counts as a new virus. Now, I think that tends to overestimate things a little.

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Ok I have t odisagree with this one. While you are correct in that most viri are just recompiles or some comment changes because of the way antivrus software works they are difrent viri. Example: I could take a virus that was in al of the AV companies DB and recompile it with a new compiler, none of the existing AV software packs would be able t odetect it untill a new signture was generated (huristaics might but they are in no way fool proof and most people don't use them.)

Nice post, heres some more.

11. In order to hack/be a hacker, you need to use *nix- while most unix/linux distrobutions come with many more programs and commands for internet security (nmap, netcat, whois, etc) than windows, it is still very possible to use windows for hacking. There is a windows version or supplement for basically every *nix program or command. It is, however, very good to learn unix as more servers run it than windows.

12. If a "hacker" can break into one system, (s)he can get into anyone they want- i've heard many people ask someone who has cracked into a server to break into a website or something that they don't like and are surprised if the cracker/hacker tells them that they can't. Many people believe that if you can do something to one system, you can just as easily do it to any other one. This is not the case as there is no set method of getting into any system as everyone is unique.

I have no comment on 9, but 10 is fairly valid. Spoofed IP addresses are basically blind attacks. The return packet is sent to the spoofed IP address. DDOS is usually the only use for a spoofed IP. Which is unethical, unusefull and more importantly a waste of good bandwidth. And who wants to waste bandwidth?

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10) [it is a myth that] You can spoof your IP AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL BY SPOOFING IT

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This is true, I will qualify it for the OP:

If you spoof your IP when sending packets, the response packets sent by the target, will go back to the IP you've spoofed (assuming they manage to get there) - NOT to the real originating machine. Just as if you posted a letter to someone with the wrong return address, you would be unlikely to get the reply.

The only real nasty thing which attackers can do with IP spoofing is trigger IDS false alarms (perhaps hiding their own genuine attacks in a sea of spoofed ones)

I will have to disagree with that last statement.
You could use IP spoofing if there is a trust relationship between two computer based on IP autentication. It is hard to do and you have to be a real expert to use it.
It works as follows.
You DoS the trusted host (so that it can not reply with RST packets to the syn/ack and syn packets). Next you craft packets as if they were coming from the trusted host.
You can indeed not see any replies so you will have to know exactly what you are doing.

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Misconceptions of IP Spoofing

While some of the attacks described above are a bit outdated, such as session hijacking for host-based authentication services, IP spoofing is still prevalent in network scanning and probes, as well as denial of service floods. However, the technique does not allow for anonymous Internet access, which is a common misconception for those unfamiliar with the practice. Any sort of spoofing beyond simple floods is relatively advanced and used in very specific instances such as evasion and connection hijacking.

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http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1674

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There seems to be a lot of confusion about the IP address spoofing and connection hijacking attacks described by John Markoff's 1/23/95 NYT article, and CERT advisory CA-95:01. Here are some technical details from my presentation on 1/11/95 at CMAD 3 in Sonoma, California. Hopefully this will help clear up any misunderstandings as to the nature of these attacks.

Two different attack mechanisms were used. IP source address spoofing and TCP sequence number prediction were used to gain initial access to a diskless workstation being used mostly as an X terminal. After root access had been obtained, an existing connection to another system was hijacked by means of a loadable kernel STREAMS module.

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http://www.totse.com/en/hack/hack_attack/hacker03.html

You will have to know exactly what your are doing and like said this is not something a beginner could easily do.

I agree with both of you, yes if you send packets over the net from a spoofed IP you won`t get them back as they go to the source, and if a system is relying on IPs for a trust relationship the spoofing might be useful.

Also, when working on a LAN, if you modify the relevant arp tables you can get the packets back, i.e. I spoof IP address 1.2.3.4 and tell the systems you need to that IP address 1.2.3.4 is associated with my MAC, then I get the packet back (only for your local LAN though).

Also, I haven`t come across systems relying on IP addresses for their trust relationship for a long time....

Oh, and spoofing the IP address of a machine that is not reachable, has been known to cause all kinds of problems for the target machine...

anyone have any more myths to add?

In fact, if you change the arp entries so they refer to your mac then you don`t even need to spoof the IP. (thats a note I just added after posting)

13. All Hackers are evil/malicous and are only out to cause havoc or steal your credit card numbers - this goes back to the old hacker/cracker or black/white argument. Due to (IMHO) bad press hacker has become the buzz word to describe any malicous computer user - esp those who compromise other people systems. But I am off the opinion that this ain't a hacker. A hacker is anyone who is always trying to learn more about their systems....how they work and how to make them do what they want them to do..........I dont mean however to make it seem ok for those people who break into other people's networks/systems cause 'they were trying to learn more about them'
exsposing security flaws is worthy of merit - exploiting them is worthy of scorn

v_Ln

here's one that's related to the previous post


A hacker is a person who breaks in to somebody else's computer to steal information and to crash their computer


[gloworange]FALSE[/gloworange]




A hacker is someone with a thirst for knowledge, free information, and/or someone who tries to figure out how things work, engineers are hackers, programmers are hackers.

well next thing

ok if You are securing a MS box you will be safe.... untill the next Default Feature will come up... No im not flaming the Good MS admins, but really, there not that wide spread, which is a shame cause i know there out there... my respects to you cause fXXing every week or month for that mather a new thing is discovered!!, leads me to ( sorry ) OpenBSD, they (and me) patch ( counting from may ) ar not patching yet!!!!! and howmany MS admins out there how are doing there job! have patched XP/2003???? sinds that period?,

thing is that in MY opinion, MS is not taking care of there customers.

NULL

While debwalin is right when he says it's how much you know your OS, what about the people designing it? For *some* reason, every time Microsoft releases some piece of software, they have to release a patch to go along with it. People downloaded Service Pack 1 for XP, only to find out it had memory management problems.

My opinion is that since these people are designing software for money, they tend to skim through the debugging process. Even if they find an error, they may release the program because it's Deadline time.
In the Linux world (generally), everything is constantly being upgraded. Oftentimes the software is right the first time, or else it get updated pretty darn fast. This is because these programmers take personal pride in what they do, and want to share it with others.

Something to think about.

Something to think about.

Used to follow this site daily but after 11 months in the IT meltdown especally in my state I am happy to see someone take on the myths out here. Thing is most netowrks do deploy and keep firewalls up to date. All this probing even here at home some 85 just today most auto attacks from infected home users. Point being is I see it all could I knowing the attack method then trash out any of these systems, answer is yep. But why would I even bother cause some kid will trash it a home users and move one. M$ products are as was said a money making machine and to blaance the cost against a budget can be a killer. But get real I see someone scanning port 53 or 135 it's a newbie for sure crap has been around since M$ figured out how to go online in 1996 or so. So sit back at watch as all the IT jobs are exported to India and I do not fault them, so new myth is an American IT worker can find a job now days. Unions do play an important role you all know after all we had none in the wake of 9/11 and hard as we worked to get it all together and working what we make is a libility now to the corp bottom line. Go for it keep the thread alive myths have to be exposed!
Peace

One thing I have noticed about IT jobs after 9/11 though, in response to Palemoon's statement above. Is that the government especially, but to an extent companies as well, are paranoid about safety. Their IT aspect is no different. Whether it is government or commercial, they WANT Americans to learn how to secure American networks. I have noticed a sharp incline in the desire for Americans with security clearances to be network security managers in America.

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Third, sm1 can use ur puter to hack the FBI and u may go to jail....

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Chances are fairly slim that your puter would be used in such a high profile attack. And if this is the fbi (or any high profile organiztion) we are talking about, im sure they would have a data forensics person look at your hardrive- and find that you had been hacked.

I want to up the ante a bit to the myths.
1. As Network Admin you expect company owners and workers to actually work and not sit in adult chat rooms. False

2. Said workers and owners get pissed when you secure the network and see network traffic live. True, becuase they all think they are the only ones doing it on line LOL.

3. You will be fired if you secure a network so the bosses babe or dude has no tunnel into the system. True, True, True

4. Want to see some really old myths played out go to an adult chat room or ICQ, MSN, Yahoo you name it. Funny how packets can be looked at and fir that matter all network traffic live in real time you know stuff you tell your self I'd just as not want to know that about all these people,

Soo in the end run knowing as owners, board members etc you do the job and do and can show you actually can print it all out. You get the call it is not that you have not done an excellent job and in my case protecting their total ass-ets from being over run by their own stupidity, but hey I got a guy out sourced that can emote take care of the system at 1/8 and no benefits we pay you thanks there is the door.

I do not fault any up and arriving 3rd world country hell my wife is from one I do however object to Americian Corps out sourcing everything becuase over time even the export help will grow to want the same things as I because i t will take that amount of bucks to support their family.

Biggest myth is as Net Admin you got a plush job, you have in fact a job more close to a sewer worker, cause your gonna be expect to cover the corp trash...hey fact look at the damn world markets. Sorry I exposed and was truthful about the crap on-line but if one has to actually work to make a living as I did after so much you just go off when your dismissed and do other stuff. There is no glory in Net Admin and unless your from a 3rd world country any hope as a programmer. This in fact is called the outsourcing of America choose well this world to much time is spent on corp media spins and marketing hype then actucal facts. 20 years taught me that one

Yeah, no doubt. Net Admin is no plush job. It's a pain in the butt, I agree. Everyone has a problem with security because it "infringes" on what they can do. You run your ass off trying to make all the idiots understand they can't do certain things, and then when you try to change policy to make it more secure, they freak. Then you have pricing and budget, and implementation and policy, etc., etc. Jeeze. Understandable with human nature, but definetly no plush job. You get paid for being stressed 24/7.
God, you got to love it. Wouldn't live in any other age, honestly.
Watcher

WEll happy for ya OWW, but I'm an old hat have ethics and I refuse to cover corp tracks. LOL I'm sitting on crap that would pucker the butts of the owners of the last place I worked. Thing is that 24/7 auto reports via software that had it or I just simply programed it so I'd not be caught off guard going to work. But that is the ethics lesson not the myth so you sit there and sort it out, and it goes to back what mommy or daddy said the truth isalways the best. So export on a grand level American corps do for much oh I'd say about 60% of IT now here. No Unions in IT no clout, and just mothers and fathers in far away lands working for 1/8 of what maybe soon you will no longer have.

IT myth even if you got that 120% return on the bucks spent for IT your not gonna sit at the table long because .02 percent is paid with the knowledge and easy of learing IT to 3rd world places..it is the bottom line.

I'd not live in any other age either, in my life time lol it is taught as history what lacks now though are the ethics. I paid the price would not cover it up more IT staff are have done so was why the Web melt down. Can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool the IT department and IT admmin autos crap we never wanted to know about but must let not very secure corps types feel secure then catch crap becuase email did not get out to a babe or dude...geez these look at the Dot com bust still do not get it or have a life..no more 24/7 fpr me burned 6 CD's logs over just last two jobs. My thinking is I will shove if I am pushed in the mean time I'm sure my replacemnt as let them know yep he could, my ace is with ethics can of shoved, and I'm very close to that.

Hell M$ is suing spammers when 90% of the crap is from their own system...called working the system. Gates bought the code for DOS he did not do it nor did Allen why he bailed out years ago ethics and the myth that MS created something. No fault he bailed out early only worth a few million and is loosing tons a day, unlike media hype Bill a college business major dropout funny how that is always lost.. Exploit a few billion and you can call yourself a Chef Software Archectuit?????? Nuff is tme for all you younger folks to make what ever you will of it, and alwys ask yourself when the gut with the big house on the hill over looking the bay sleeps well cause a bunch of people find exploits and flaws in their product for free. Glad my car was not designed around it flaws, but the cost of fixing those flaws fell directly upon who made it not some 3rd party selling me an add on..hint..hint anti viri spam protection. Kidz give away what should have been sold..never work for free.

One More myth

Hackers can virtually break any file u encrypt be it 128 bit or 256 bit encryption.....


Hackers by the powers of their knowledge alone cannot decrypt or brutre force encrypted files as the hardware resources required to carry such activities are enormous.....

Recently I read that it took US government months to decrypt some files.... over a Super computer....

So don't panic and your files are not as unsecured as it looks to u.....

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Windows is easier to hack then Linux - (sure to raise a few stirs with this one) ok, if you secure Windows it will be secure, if you secure Linux it will be secure, if you don`t secure them then you can attack them with a high degree of success.

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blah windows by default has a lot more exploits that you cant patch than linux and patches take alot longer to propigate because you have mabey 30-40 people working on it linux there is hundreds of people and a possiblity of millions that can patch it
so i disagree on that one

Ah but the statement said if you secure Windows it will be secure, and if you leave Linux in an unsecure mode then it is indeed easier to hack. Yes by default Windows is less secure, but I was talking about what happens if you secure it., which is what hopefully Admins will do for their servers (at least).

Also, Linux is in some ways easier to screw up the Windows due to all the tweaking you can do. So how the whole point was that hacking whatever OS you choose depends on whether or not the OS is secured. Far too many times the blanket statement is made that Windows is easier to Hack then Linux, which I do not believe to be true.