Printable View
I got a question someone help me here.
Why is it when ever an American dies in this War the got gunned down, a sniper shot them, Ambushed, and Blown-up. Doesn't anyone just get shot anymore. I was thinking about this, I know our guys are good but dang noone is that good.
Whizkid2300
I think these Iraqi "gorrillas" are a bunch of cowards. They know they can't take us one on one, so they have to fight like cowards.
If I'm understanding your question.. then there are two reasons in my opinion...
1) The people that attack American soldiers are complete cowards (like Framework said), and they know if they just went up and shot an American, they would never see daylight again... so they shots from faraway, they use explosives... in other words: its guerilla warfare.
2) Another possibility is that the media just streches the truth a bit... I'm guessing that they think they can get better ratings for making stories sound more interesting.... but the again, our government does confirm many of those reports so odds are its #1.
= Cheers, jag291 =
There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. I think you might be failing to distinguish between the two...Quote:
I think these Iraqi "gorrillas" are a bunch of cowards. They know they can't take us one on one, so they have to fight like cowards.
At least in America, things have pretty much been that way since around the time of the Spanish/American war when Pulitzer (and someone else, I forget his name, Hearst maybe?) drummed up the war spirit with sensationalistic journalism. You are just seeing the continued evolution of it.Quote:
2) Another possibility is that the media just streches the truth a bit... I'm guessing that they think they can get better ratings for making stories sound more interesting.... but the again, our government does confirm many of those reports so odds are its #1.
/nebulus
I actually have to go with #2 on that one. The reason is the same reason that we have not found weapons yet. Our gvt. will mis-consture(spell check) things. I personally believe that this is very possible an over sight on the gvt. and media. But I want to see if I can get any from outside the US to reply to this one.
Whizkid2300
I'm not from outside the U.S but I agree with framework. I believe that they are to cowardly to have an open battle with us. Instead they must resort to being far away when they try to kill our soldiers.
That is very possible but, at the same time let's go that as a whole they might be to cowardly you mean to tell me that there isn't ONE person. Isn't scared and will go threw with a fight. Which in my mind would get at least get one person off of shear tanasity.
Whizkid2300
So it's brave to fight like a coward, and try to kill those who just set you free from a murderous dictator who rapes and tortures anyone who opposes him?Quote:
There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. I think you might be failing to distinguish between the two...
Sorry nebulus, but i think i understand fully the difference between bravery and cowardess.
Ok Frame when did you change your Avatar?
I have to kinda go with Nebulas on this one. and Frame at the same time. Ok let it Ludacris to believe that every Iraqi is a coward. It is also Ludacris to believe that every American that has died, died by being blown-up, Sniped etc. Ok but you have to think about it like this. Which side would you side with a crude Dictator, that treated you like carp but, you had all the power and money you wanted. Or America and it's philosphies. I have a little statistic that I am going to throw out here to get you guys thinking about something.
Of aproxiamately let's say 80,000 request for asylum 20,000 were answered and 2000 denied all the rest approved. What does this say if you get a reply your good, but if you apply your pretty much screwed.
I am not going to go deep in this one right now I will be back later and post more.
Whizkid2300
You can ask anyone, i change my avatar more times than most people do. :pQuote:
Ok Frame when did you change your Avatar?
__________
I understand what nebulus is talking about, i just don't think these particular Iraqi's fall under that catagory. I never said all Iraqi's are cowards, because that would just be a ignorant statement.
Hey Frame where do you get your Avatars from you have had some pretty cool one's
WHizkid2300
How is pulling off a text book counter offensive to a blitz style offensive cowardess? When facing a overwhelmingly superior opposing force your best bet is to go to ground and wage a war of attrition using no conventional combatants.Quote:
Originally posted here by FrameWork
So it's brave to fight like a coward, and try to kill those who just set you free from a murderous dictator who rapes and tortures anyone who opposes him?
Sorry nebulus, but i think i understand fully the difference between bravery and cowardess.
Oh wait I see, you fell that the French and polish resistance in WWII and our founding fathers during the revolution where a bunch of stinking cowards. I understand now.
I may not have liked Sadamm (or the part of the US government that supported him in the 80’s) but opposing our troops is defiantly not cowardess
bballad, i would appreciate it if you would'nt shove words into my mouth next time pal.Quote:
Oh wait I see, you fell that the French and polish resistance in WWII and our founding fathers during the revolution where a bunch of stinking cowards. I understand now.
Those may or may not be your thoughts on that, but not mine. ;)
I don't necessarily think all is fair in war. I don't consider those doing the killings in Iraq as legitimate fighters, let's face it these are Saddams thug's. Saddam himself just released a tape in which he said he was behind these murders, so you can go ahead and defend these Saddam loyalist if that's what you wanna do bballad.Quote:
How is pulling off a text book counter offensive to a blitz style offensive cowardess? When facing a overwhelmingly superior opposing force your best bet is to go to ground and wage a war of attrition using no conventional combatants.
Actually, yes. It is 'brave' to resist a foreign invader that now occupies your homeland, the very act of which will eventually lead to your demise. The only thing that would happen if the Iraqi army tried to resist in a traditional battle would be a repeat of when the Iraqi's tried to flee Kuwait City during the Gulf War (if you don't remember, I am refering to the 'Highway of Death', where hundreds, if not thousands, were killed by American A-10's, Apaches, and Cobra's).Quote:
So it's brave to fight like a coward, and try to kill those who just set you free from a murderous dictator who rapes and tortures anyone who opposes him?
Their goal is the removal of US and allied forces from Iraq, to do so from a pitched battle would only result in their annihlation, which means they would fail in their goal. They are fighting in the only way that they can without becoming dead in the process, which is where I am coming from when I say there is a very fine line between bravery and stupidity. It is brave to resist, it is foolish in this case to do so in a fixed battle.
I guess following your own logic, the biggest cowards in the entire world would be the US Special Forces? Dropping like the cowards they are behind enemy lines and attacking and then fleeing? Blowing up targets and disappearing into the night?
IMHO, you are way off. Our special forces are some of the bravest men on the planet and on a daily basis pull off some of the most dangerous missions imagineable. While I vehemently dislike Sadaam Hussein, fully support our troops and president, and am appalled at the daily loss of American lives in Iraq, the men that are perpetrating these acts against our soldiers are NOT cowards. They are vile and misguided supporters of a failed and murderous regime, but not cowards.
/nebulus
You guys interpretation of coward is obviously different than mine, i'm fine with that. I stand by what i have posted, i think those who kill for Saddam are cowards.
I have to go with Ballad if I am reading him right. Look at you history, how did Amreica when the Revolutionary war. Guerilla Tactics. They worl when you are fighting a stronger force don;t go into a straight fight hit them where it hurts now, to if I hink they are cowards or not, Hum yeah but no you sometimes in desperate situations do what you must.
Whizkid2300
Quote:
Originally posted here by FrameWork
I think these Iraqi "gorrillas" are a bunch of cowards. They know they can't take us one on one, so they have to fight like cowards.
Here, i'll just take this post that i made at the first of this thread and clarify. I should have just stated in the beginning that i think those who are fighting on behalf of Saddam are cowards. I did'nt know that this thread was going to turn into a big debate on what the definition of coward is. I don't give a flip about cowards, you guys can continue to debate the definition of "coward" without me. Again, i'm hereby making it clear, i think those who are fighting on behalf of Saddam hussien are cowards.
So what is your definition of coward? some one who dosn't hold your beleifs? Perhaps we need to get you a diconary.
bballad your just being juvenile.
I already stated that:
________________Quote:
Again, i'm hereby making it clear, i think those who are fighting on behalf of Saddam hussien are cowards.
You know, for a party who preaches tolerance, you guys never seem to show any for the other side.Quote:
So what is your definition of coward? some one who dosn't hold your beleifs?
Umm what party would that be ..personally I hate the left as much as I hate the right. IMHO any one who identifies themselves as a liberal or a conservative should be shot.
Now you have told us who you think are cowards...but why are they cowards, pretend I am real stupid and define the term for me not using the word coward in the definition. The any one who fights the Americans in Iraq is a coward statement tells me that you think any one who disagrees with you is a coward...that’s a very odd definition of the word.
Oh ya whizkid2300 an answer for your original question. If the US media said that a soldier was killed in combat instead of blown up, or shot instead of killed by a sniper, it would make it very hard to demonize our opponent.
You don't have to be stupid to understand that those who fight for Saddam Hussien are cowardly ok.Quote:
Now you have told us who you think are cowards...but why are they cowards, pretend I am real stupid and define the term for me not using the word coward in the definition. The any one who fights the Americans in Iraq is a coward statement tells me that you think any one who disagrees with you is a coward...that’s a very odd definition of the word.
I will not bother to answer the rest of your questions here because your acting like a kid. Again you have put words in my mouth and your coming across very juvenile.
We have had a great many debates bballad, but you seldom act like this. I have enjoyed them for the most part, because you don't give up. However, you typically never accuse me of saying things that i have not even come close to saying. I don't really mind though, you have your opinion, i have mine. Like i said before, i'm fine with that.
Well, we finally agree on something. I hate both sides aswell, the only reason i vote for the "right" is because i agree with their stance (on Israel and abortion mainly) more than the left. The left has some good ideas, but there is too much on their side that i hate for me to vote for them.Quote:
Umm what party would that be ..personally I hate the left as much as I hate the right.
Again i ask please stop putting words in my mouth bballad.
Actually, I am curious myself to hear the answer to bballad's question. You have said yourself that apparently your definition (or understanding of the meaning) of cowardly differs from what we believe. He is merely asking for you to define and/or explain your meaning/understanding of the word coward in the context of these posts. He furthermore asked you to do it without using the word you are trying to define (IMHO, not an unreasonable request) and I am assuming by saying he was stupid, he meant to keep the terms as simple as possible.Quote:
Originally posted here by FrameWork
You don't have to be stupid to understand that those who fight for Saddam Hussien are cowardly ok.
You have repeatidly stated the those that fight for Sadaam are cowards, but you have yet to say exactly why or how you wound up at that conclusion. How does fighting Americans make them cowards?
/nebulus
Save your indignation, according to the rest of the world coward means the following:
From dictionary.com:
The only possible way that I could even conceive of them somehow being called cowards, is you could assert that they were cowards for not standing up to a murderous/thuggish regime. It seems to me, and hell, I guess the rest of the English speaking world, that standing up and fighting anyone is the antithesis of a coward. So yes, yes, Sadaam was a thug, and yes, yes his henchmen engaged in many crimes against humanity, how does that make them cowards, you have still failed to answer the question. So, morally depraved, yes, ignorant, probably, lacking moral fortitude, certainly, coward, no. Let me know when you want to return to the real world and I will be willing to continue to debate this, otherwise, I am wasting no more time here.Quote:
cow·ard n. One who shows ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.
coward adj.
Word History: A coward is one who “turns tail.” The word comes from Old French couart, coart, “coward,” and is related to Italian codardo, “coward.” Couart is formed from coe, a northern French dialectal variant of cue, “tail” (from Latin cda), to which the derogatory suffix -ard was added. This suffix appears in bastard, laggard, and sluggard, to name a few. A coward may also be one with his tail between his legs. In heraldry a lion couard, “cowardly lion,” was depicted with his tail between his legs. So a coward may be one with his tail hidden between his legs or one who turns tail and runs like a rabbit, with his tail showing.
\Cow"ard\ (kou"?rd), a. [OF. couard, coard, coart, n. and adj., F. couard, fr. OF. coe, coue, tail, F. queue (fr. L. coda, a form of cauda tail) + -ard; orig., short-tailed, as an epithet of the hare, or perh., turning tail, like a scared dog. Cf. Cue, Queue, Caudal.] 1. (Her.) Borne in the escutcheon with his tail doubled between his legs; -- said of a lion.
2. Destitute of courage; timid; cowardly.
3. Belonging to a coward; proceeding from, or expressive of, base fear or timidity.
\Cow"ard\, n. A person who lacks courage; a timid or pusillanimous person; a poltroon.
\Cow"ard\, v. t. To make timorous; to frighten. [Obs.]
adj : lacking courage; ignobly timid and faint-hearted; "cowardly dogs, ye will not aid me then"- P.B.Shelley [syn: cowardly, coward(a), fearful] [ant: brave] n : a person who shows fear or timidity
/nebulus
I can hardly believe what i am hearing!
I am very offended that you guys have asked me to state the utterly obvious, but if you must:
FrameWorks definition of a coward:
Anyone who is willing to fight/rape/torture/kill for a scum bag like Saddam Hussien!
The list of links on this topic go on and on:Quote:
Saddam Hussein
President of Iraq since 1979 (Vice President from 1968-79). Dictator who stops at nothing to preserve personal power and regime survival. After the 1968 Ba'athist Coup, began his career as Chief of Iraq's security services.
*
Executed opponents and suspected potential rivals, including scores of high-level government officials and thousands of political prisoners.
*
Since the 1970s, escalated and made routine the systematic torture and execution of political prisoners.
*
Ordered the use of chemical weapons against Iranian forces in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, and against Iraq's Kurdish population in 1988. The 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war left 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqis and 450,000 to 730,000 Iranians dead.
*
Ordered the invasion and destruction of Kuwait in 1990-91 with 1,000 Kuwaitis killed.
*
Directed the 1991 bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a insurgencies in northern and southern Iraq with at least 30,000 to 60,000 killed.
*
Ordered the destruction of southern marshes to extinguish the Shi'a insurgency.
http://www.state.gov/s/wci/fs/19352.htm
I don't have anything else to this converstation. You have asked me the most asinine question i have ever been asked nebulus/bballad, and i am highly offended by it. Good-day.
Bballad thatnk you that is what I have been trying to say threw the entire thing you can not demonize, your enemy when your enemy is following the rules. At the same time I am willing to step out on the ledge and and say that in Iraq the are probably doing the same thing to America.
I just wish that people would just actually listening to that. Why are there some many problems. Cowardice might be a part of but at the same time it is crazy to believe that noone dies in war the normal way, by just getting shot.
Whizkid2300
Whizkid thats exactly what I am saying.
some interesting ntes on your points framework
the 91 upriesing was directly Bush seniors fault, he promised the revolters aid hen backed out...that may cause a lot of problems with the shiats in our current occupation.
A lot of studies have been done on the gasing of the Kurds (some of which where run by Husain), it seems that the Iraq's found they would have caused more calusalties for less money if they had used conventional weapons..this is probably when he stated todismantle his chemical/bioligcal weapons programs...long before 2002.