Printable View
Ok my parents are both Irish Republicans and I looked thru all the debates and I noticed there was no debate on this issue and since you cant get negged in here i thought id post.
Basically I want to know
Should Ireland be a thirty two county republic?
I was allways of the opinion that Ireland should be one country...never understood why the hell the brits felt they needed t obe there in the first place.
bballad:
Unfortunately it isn't quite as simple as that.
Although I don't live in Ulster, to the Brits who do live there, the reason they need to be there is because it's their home.
And it seems that a lot of them don't really want to move to a new country... well I don't pretend to be an expert, but I think it's safe to say there aren't any easy answers on this one.
Slarty
I think we should invade. Why should they be treated any better than the bloody arabs?
After all, it was the Irish who invented modern terrorism. The partition of
Ireland is a done deal. Get over it. When the Catholics ruled Europe, they burned
Protestants alive. So why can't the Protestants have one small corner where they can
live in peace without fear that their religion will be outlawed?
:cool:
OK, first of all I hope that is not your actual opinion because the sheer ignorance it displays is scary. I can only assume it is some kind of bad joke.Quote:
I think we should invade.
Quote:
Why should they be treated any better than the bloody arabs?
After all, it was the Irish who invented modern terrorism. The partition of
Ireland is a done deal. Get over it.
My question is why should any one be treated any different thatn, anyone? The partition of Ireland only occured in 1921, maybe you should read up on the history of Ireland or even watch Michael Collins which is essentially aimed at US Republicans. A small minority of Irish people belonging to a small paramilitary group called the Irish Republican Army created many of the modern terrorist tactics, the rest of us were too busy getting drunk and working like most people in the world.
Unfortunately for the people of Catholic areas in Northen Ireland this was not a possibility, they couldnt elect who they wanted due to gerrymandering by the dominant Unionist parties. They were persecuted by loyalist gangs who also played a part in creating modern terrorism, people who would never claim to be Irish but British.
The Provisional IRA i.e. the one that waged war for the last 30 years came about after Catholic areas were being targeted and the people of these areas needed protection. Since the police force would not provide it the terrorists stepped in and took advantage of the situation to gain support from the left wing Origanal IRA who were finally at the negoiting table. The persecution of Catholics set back the problem roughly 30 years.
I dont know about you but this dosent look like a Protestent only country judging by census figures. What I am trying to say is that this is not a matter of letting Protestants live in a small part of Ireland it is a need for the two almost equal in number communities to co-exist peacefully.Quote:
When the Catholics ruled Europe, they burned
Protestants alive. So why can't the Protestants have one small corner where they can
live in peace without fear that their religion will be outlawed?
:cool:
Quote:
The second report of the 2001 Census was published on 19 December 2002. The report provided information on the religious breakdown of the population. Based on two census questions, religion and religion brought up, the breakdown was reported as 43.76% Catholic, 53.13% Protestant, 0.39% Other, 2.72% none. (Where 'Protestant' represented 'Protestant and other Christian, including Christian related'; and where 'Other' represented 'Other religions and philosophies'). [Following the 1991 Census it was estimated that 41.5 per cent of the population was Catholic (based on revised figures).]
Read this to see how the British government uses terrorists by colluding with them to kill lawyers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/n...nd/2954383.stm
And here is a timeline that should bring you through the history of Ireland
http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/history/
Oh and just one question, would you like it if we partitioned just a little bit of your country?
They wouldn't be any where near equal in number if incorporated into the restQuote:
What I am trying to say is that this is not a matter of letting Protestants live in a small part of Ireland it is a need for the two almost equal in number communities to co-exist peacefully.
of Ireland. The protestants would be outvoted on every issue, and fear they would
be persecuted.
Britain did not impose partition. When the Brits were prepared to grant independence,
The protestants threatened civil war. Partition was negotiated, and most of
the people accepted it as the best they could do in the circumstances.
Only a few hot heads still insist on fighting on.
:cool:
This is a topic that is complex. I hope the people of ireland (and northern ireland) can work it out amicably.
I live in the north of Ireland and i would dearly love a united Ireland, but to be honest, i cant see that happening in my lifetime!
The only reason that there is a partition in the island is, as Ennis said, due to a compromise that was reached in 1921 by one Michael Collins and the British government.
Regarding your question 'Should Ireland be a 32 county country', my answer is yes, but ask a protestant down the road from me and his answer will be no.
So make your own mind up!
Here is a question that perhaps the Irish here can answer. As I understand things the protestants in northern Ireland are church of England, correct? well last I checked the Anglicans where Catholic light, the pope recognizes the Anglican church and the Anglican church recognizes the Catholic church, the priests can cross churches with little problem, they can perform sacraments for each other, ect. ect.. so if the churches are reconciled why all the religious troubles with the followers?
Apparently not.Quote:
As I understand things the protestants in northern Ireland are church of England, correct?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland...inations.shtmlQuote:
Presbyterian Church
The second largest Christian denomination, and the largest Protestant Church in Northern Ireland.
The fundamental issue here is that (southern) Ireland wishes to to have control over the Northern Ireland, and for years this has been part of the Irish constitution.
On the other hand the majority in Northern Ireland (Protestants) do not trust the south, and believe they would loose their identity & rights.
It's easy to find out what people in the North think - hold a referendum and see how they vote. Of course, if you are in favour of forcing sovereign states (which Northern Island is) to agree to being ruled by what they regard as a hostile power, then the solution is easy.
Now that the IRA has mainly ceased its 'military' operations - i.e. killing soldiers & civillians, there is a good chance that over time, a sensible compromise can be reached.
In the past a lot of people in the US have been responsible for prolonging this conflict by funding the IRA 'military' operations via NORAID. Something which gave great offense to many in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. Our closest ally sending money to enable terrorists (which is what this part of the IRA are) to buy explosives to kill people.
But recently, things seem to have changed for the better, with the US taking a less partisan approach, and trying to encourage a dialogue between both sides.
Well it is a damn complex matter and it has been debated to death over the years but just to show the other side of the coin. Many Catholics were harshly persecuted under the Norths obviously undemocratic government for a long time before the IRA decided to become what is know for today, an undeniable horrific terrorist group that thank God have stopped. The RUC back in the twenties were responsible for some terrible acts against Catholic communities and when they stopped it was taken up by the loyalist groups which often get away with the heat because of the noteirity of the IRA.
Ever heard of gerrymandering?
I agree with you, but you are taking about the 1920's, not the 2003 that we now live in. If you look at the body figures over the last 20 years the IRA has killed far more innocent civilians (plus soldiers which obviously don't count for the IRA) than the Loyalist terrorist groups. What is lacking here is a determination (by the US in particular) to force both terrorist groups to surrender their arms.Quote:
Originally posted here by Ennis
Well it is a damn complex matter and it has been debated to death over the years but just to show the other side of the coin. Many Catholics were harshly persecuted under the Norths obviously undemocratic government for a long time before the IRA decided to become what is know for today, an undeniable horrific terrorist group that thank God have stopped. The RUC back in the twenties were responsible for some terrible acts against Catholic communities and when they stopped it was taken up by the loyalist groups which often get away with the heat because of the noteirity of the IRA.
Ever heard of gerrymandering?
Once that is done, everyone can get down to sensible negotiations. Until that happens, anything goes.
I fully agree.Quote:
Originally posted here by darkes
What is lacking here is a determination (by the US in particular) to force both terrorist groups to surrender their arms.
Once that is done, everyone can get down to sensible negotiations. Until that happens, anything goes.
Let me ask a question on sein fein. Does this organization hold legitimacy? Has Gerry assisted, blocked or helped the process? Or a bit of all three?
To be pedantic, it is 'Sinn Fein', which is the political wing of the IRA. It is a legitimate political party, although Gerry (Adams) was almost certainly an active member of the IRA, sitting on the 'army council' i.e. the inner circle that authorised terrorist attacks.Quote:
Originally posted here by gold eagle
Let me ask a question on sein fein. Does this organization hold legitimacy? Has Gerry assisted, blocked or helped the process? Or a bit of all three?
Having said that, he is not the first terrorist to switch to a peaceful negotiating role (Israel mean anything here?). Trouble is, that he has been either unwilling or unable to deliver on a promise that the IRA (and the so called 'real IRA') surrenders its weapons.
So you have a situation where the Loyalists (Protestants) in the North feel a gun is literally being held to their head, as Sinn Fein is saying if we don't like what happens, we will go back to the terrorist campaign. Hardly condusive to a sensible dialog, is it?
Of course, on the other side of the coin you would need to persuade the Loyalist terrorist groups to give up their weapons, but I think that could be arranged very easily if the IRA agreed to disband.