Hardisk cooling problem...

Hello,

That day, I want to cooling my hardisk, and then I put on the fan under the HDD, the air flow was aim to the chip under the HDD. I did this because I heard some people said that we can make the HDD running smoothly when the HDD in cold condition...

But 1 thing that I wondering, when I put the FAN under the HDD, my pc become slower, I know this cause the problem when I take out the Fan... than I can felt my HDD back faster again.... I was did it many time, because I want to make sure....

Why this can be happen... and how I can cooling my HDD?


.....

Taking a shot in the dark here, but it could be that the your already at a limit on your power for your PC and when you plug the fan in it somehow slows your HD?

Post your specs to your PC here.

cheyenne1212 might be on the right track. If your power supply is below 300W I would buy either a 300w or better That may fix the problem.

this might be a completely stupid idea, but maybe the air you are blowing at the HD is slowing it down because of the friction the air is blowing (err...trying to incorporate some physics here). If you plug your fan in somewhere else does your HDD slow down also? If it does slow down, then the input power supply to your box is low, but otherwise, my friction idea is my only other guess :). Also, you should go to this website and download AIDA32 Personal system Information. This will give you ALL the specs about your computer. http://www.aida32.hu/aida-download.php?bit=32
Good luck :)

OKAY...............here is my guess:

1. It should not be friction, because the hard drive is enclosed and pretty well sealed?
2. The power supply is a good thought, but I would have expected the system to crash on overload; not just slow down?

The fan is driven by an electric motor. Electric motors work on the principle of electromagnetism. If the motor is defective or too close to another device, the electomagnetic field that it generates can interfere with the other device. We are in the area of induction, electro magnetic fields (EMF) and electro magnetic pulses (EMP). I have seen an AS/400 taken down by EMP and screens fail due to the EMF generated by a faulty desk fan.

I would suggest getting a purpose built HDD cooling fan. These are a 5.5" mounting with three fans at the front. You put the drive into the mounting then screw the lot into your 5.5" drive bay. I would guess that they cost around $15?...........they are about £12 in England.

As a general principle, you also need to think about case geometry and airflow......you need to suck air in as well as blow it out.

EDIT: You must do something pretty quick......if I am right then your data is at risk because the magnetic field could corrupt your HDD!


Just a few thoughts........

Cheers

Some fans are electricly "Noisey" this can cause various problems whith the computer.. slow-downs? very probable.. But certainly not a problem with the Air friction..

Follow the advice of powering the Fan from a seperate PSU (from another computer PSU that is)..

Also the cooling effect on most 7200rpm Hdd's is enhanced by placing a low rpm 40-50mm fan between the hdd and front of the case.. just the extra air circulation around the HDD from a front case sucker fan is cooling enough in many systems..

cheers

i agree with nihil ...the electromagnetism thing....there could also be a prob wid vibration

here's another solution, you could incorporate a heatsink instead of a fan, this way you won't need to use extra power or anything. Just attach a few small heatsinks at the bottom of the HDD. Hope it helps :)

Edit: Having a few fans cooling down the whole area inside your comp would help too. The heat that the heatsinks would draw out of the HDD is going to spread around the rest of the devices in there. Adding those fans would keep your comp running smoother. Also, having enought power for those fans is a must. as mentioned above, if you have a 300w or lower power supply, consider an upgrade.

Note: the more fans youo have the more they all slow down even the one in your power supply I know this for a fact considering love to modify my boxes heat sinks are a cheap and effiencent way of colling stuff off ive even placed them on my graphics card but there are much more steps to take in this area like tucking everything in bundle stuff up create as much air space as possible dont smother your hardisk with wires i also recommend you buy a slot fan and instead of pulling air out make it pull air in and palce your comp close to your air conditioner in your home that can work wonders and when the winter come put it closer to the window only if you leave your comp on 24/7 like me .............remeber heat rises and for all air you bring in you must bring out a clean box is a cool box ps fans can get loud

Never heard of puting the fan on the bottom. Most of the time cooling weather it be fan or water it always goes on top. Its not the circuit board people are worried about cooling its the actual disks inside that people worry about overheating. I would say you should probably try an actual HDD cooler.

PeacE
-BoB

yeah... i agree that it caused by EMF. i think that is not a good idea putting HDD (+floppy) near with any EMF source or any radio wave. the HDD is part of magnetic too...

Er, the internal systems of computers run on DC, and DC power does NOT generate a harmful EM field to electronics because there is no induction.

I mean, you have fan's on your CPU's right?

Oh, also, the HDD is Shielded, theres a Wooping Magnet on the inside tho, used the shift the head but using a Coil of wire which a current is passed through, when inside a magnetic field, you get the Motor effect.

Noia.. i agree with most of your comments.. except..

Quote:

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the internal systems of computers run on DC, and DC power does NOT generate a harmful EM field to electronics because there is no induction

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well yes and no.. yes.. there are no AC EM fields as in from AC Mains electricity.. but you do have EM fiels generated by the data flowing in the cables.. also as the current varies to hi drain components ie HDD motors, cd rom motors.. AC em fields are generated ALSO.. The DC EM Fields Have to be taken into account.. read basic electro magnetic theory..

That is the disagreement.. These fields are usualy self cancelling, or nulled due to the distances involved .. the shielding of the hdd is sufficient for most and stronger fields that are encountered in a computer..

I certainly wouldn't be running the power lead to the hdd or any cooling fans parrallel with the IDE cable (ie strapped to the cable and running more than 5cm parrallel)..
The the CPU is not a magnetic device, your HDD is.. Note: I had a prob with a system a while ago slow as.. blame fell on the HDD.. when the HDD was tested in another system all ok.. tested electricly in the customers system all ok.. remounted. sloooow as.. PC speaker mounted just above hdd.. magnet almost against the case.... moved all ok..
But I suppose I argue over a few milligause (in other words I nit pick)

On to other matters.. Heat sinks on the underside of the heat source? dunno.. heat rises.. a spreader on the underside..ie to transfer the heat away from a hot spot..but only manages to heat other areas .. most of the heat in a HDD is mechanical heat.. so heatsinks and a reasonable air flow over the top (convective is ok in some climates) will keep the HDD at an acceptable temp.. oh remember the Metal brackets that the HDD is attached to.. the better the bond here the better the heat transfer to the case (verygood heatsink esp if it is aluminium) so a couple of HS fins on the top of a hdd and a good airflow.. the hdd wont get too hot..
oh what is hot?
If you touch the device and the manufacturers logo is ledgeable on your finger..it is toooo hot.. seriously.. if you can touch it comfortably for more than 5 seconds the temp is OK.. If it is 1..2.. ouch.. get the cooling going..
test the hdd after the system has been running 15mins then after 1hr.. (give it a bit of work during this time) use the lo-tech approach I mentioned..
BTW..Do the tests with the Case sides on.. well run the machine with the sides on.. (takeing them off to test the hdd temp)

Cheers

Quote:

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Originally posted here by Noia
Er, the internal systems of computers run on DC, and DC power does NOT generate a harmful EM field to electronics because there is no induction.

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To make a motor work on DC you need either a brushless or a brush motor look here for a desription.

Either way you will be generating a moving magnetic field as either the aramture windings reverse polarity or the magnets move round.

But, I would very suprised if this is causing the slowdown of the PC. <edit> Wow, undertaker - I'm suprised the speaker casued that, but I live & learn!</edit>

To try and isolate the problem:

Try switching the power saving features of the bios off to see if that eliminates the slow down.

Certainly run the fan from a deperate power supply.

Ensure that the fan is not interfering with the air flow to the CPU by performing the tests with the fan in a differing position. If the CPU begins to overheat the CPU may be slowed down to compensate.

HTH

Steve

I'm going to play devil's advocate here; my first impression reading this thread was that JohnHACK would be dumbfounded by the responses, not because he could not understand the concepts, but because he may not be able to translate them. He is from a non-English speaking country ( AZL correct me if I am wrong ) and from his post is not fluent in English.

Yes, I am guilty of it too, and someone will no doubt refer to this post in the future to embarrass me, but I think the responses made to an individual should consider their level of command of the language in which this forum is in.
( note here, I do believe that eventually, facilitated in large part to the Internet, there will be one language world wide with which to communicate, and since the U.S. does not have a national language, it will be up to the Britts to push for English: guess I better brush up on my German! But that is for another forum to debate. )

As I understand the thread so far, it reads as follows.

Cheyenne1212: power supply may not be big enough with extra fan so “hardisk” is not getting enough power

DeadAddict: puts a number on how big power supply needs to be

White_Eskimo: says wind from fan might slow down drive, and includes a link to system monitor ... excuse him, he is upset because he has to go back to school, but obviously needs it to learn to spell “tomarrow” ( sorry, couldn't resist that )

nihil: fan motor interference causing problem

Und3ertak3r: small extra fan on case usually enough

Cybr1d: use heat sink instead, may work just as good for cooling “hardisk”

Swampy_ finger and fl34bit3: heat rises, whatever you use, put it on top

Noia: says the DC current in your fan can't hurt ( ? )

Und3ertak3r: questions Noia's theories about DC current.

And steve.milner suggests that the fan used may be interfering with the cpu fan.

My reply:
from reading JohnHACK's profile, he has a computer which creates a lot of heat. An extra cooling fan on case can help if there is enough power, a heat sink on top of the “hardisk”might help if the drive is in fact getting hot. There is always the option of buying a “hardisk” cooler if it is really necessary. In this case running cool is best, cold is not. ( Do we have any superconductors here ? )
The problems asked about could be due to lack of power or magnetic fields, or maybe something else, we would need more info to give a more accurate guess.

JohnHACK never said what kind of fan he used or how it was powered, and never said what type of case or hard drive is used or how old, or how fast ( 5400 rpm, 7200 rpm, 10,000 rpm ). A faster drive will generate more heat, a newer drive may dissipate heat better and may not need extra cooling ( most drives I have seen made in the past five years use thin aluminum on the top for better cooling as well as being cheaper ). He never even said what the computer is used for; all else being equal, a gaming machine with 64 megs of RAM will create more heat in the hard drive then a secretary's work station with 512 meg a RAM.

O.K., I'll get off that soapbox and focus on something else here.

Und3ertak3r's comments about “electro magnetic theory”; maybe it has been too many years, but I'll be damned if I can remember anything remotely specific from physics, my hat is off to you! ( but I'm drunk, old, and have music blasting in my ears) :D

Concerning Noia's comments about DC EM fields, I'll say this: my refrigerator is loaded with magnets from old hard drives, but those magnets were strategicly located in the drives. ( wait a minute Und3ertak3r I remember something, magnetic fields flow in certain patterns don't they? ). I bet you a GUINNESS that I can make a DC magnet, which runs on a common battery, that will make your hard drive information as useless as **** on a bull. What is in a fan motor? And why do they make shielded cable for DC applications ?

just my thoughts.

Reason for Edit: steve.milner's PM.

Edit:
I found the responses to this thread too intense IMHO for someone with English as a second language.

I deal with non-english speaking people ( many, many languages ) on a daily basis, and the outcome of our encounters can be extreme for them. As such I may be more sensitive to the issue, but my intent was to bring this to light, NOT mock anyone. If anyone is insulted, that is not my intent. If I can change this to better portray my intent, let me know.

I may be way off base here but a fan has a motor that has a magnet in it. I would think that putting a magnet near a hard drive must be a bad thing. If you realy need to call your HDD i would position a fan away from the HDD but so it plows air directly at it.

There are also some good points made by others here. But although i am no expert, i do now that everything has its optimum running temperature. So to my mind cooler do's not always = better performance.

Quote:

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White_Eskimo: says wind from fan might slow down drive, and includes a link to system monitor ... excuse him, he is upset because he has to go back to school, but obviously needs it to learn to spell “tomarrow” ( sorry, couldn't resist that )

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?? err, i thought this was a security site, not grammar/english checking site. Guess I'll go back and re-read AO's rules and guidelines... :)

QUOTE: [" a fan has a motor that
has a magnet in it. I would think
that putting a magnet near a hard
drive must be a bad thing."]

Yes but arent hard disk magnetically shielded from low grade magnets such as fans

Swampy, to be frank i don't no if hard disk has any magnetic shielding. But i worked for a company that dealt with EMI supressing material and i have never seen anything around a hard drive that would protect it from a magnetic field.