Just curious, I love networking and security but I cant bring myself to get involved with programming. I read 3/4 of Sams C++ and understood most of it but it was just so dull that I couldnt finish it.
Does this mean that I am doomed when it comes to network security or are the two that really related?
Thanks.
I don't think that it means you are doomed. It probably wouldn't hurt to learn it though.
Maybe take a class from a college where it might be more internesting.
lol i like Sams Teach Yourself Programming in 21 Days! Programming helps you better understand computers and how they work, but if you dont know how to program, then that doesnt mean that you are doomed forever when it comes to network security. Just like what cheyenne said above, it defiently doesnt hurt to know how to program :)
EDIT:
If you really want to learn how to program in C++, i would suggest that you go to the tutorials forum. There are some pretty good C++ tutorials there that could help you out. PM me if you want links to some of my tutorials...
Hi,
Here is the jaundiced opinion of an IT guy of "fiftysomething" :)
Sure, In my day you learned programming...........this does not have a direct link to security, unless you are an AV analyst..........networking might be more useful?
I know, or have known many programmers who would spend six man months on an application.....and about six minutes on its security.
Also...........we do not get paid to play with expensive toys?...we have "Users"......I will now go and wash my keyboard :D
You have to understand and educate them?.......what I am trying to say (badly) is that we are part of a total environment, with many players, who have different skills and skill levels.
It never hurts to learn something, but security is way beyond programming in my opinion.
Cheers
Negative, you do not need to learn to write any code to be a security admin, or to be a good one. The role of a security administrator is to lock down a network against possible threats & vunrebilities. You need knowlege of the OS's on your network, how they communicate with other components on your network & the internet, and how to periodically test and moniter your network. You should also get real familiar with cisco products and the different versions of cisco's IOS, very important for security purposes. Of course, research is extremly important also, you must keep up to date with whats going on in the internet community.
Don't make the mistake of confusing writing code with networking, they are two seperate fields. You do not have to do both to be good at one.
programming helps of course, i would rather hire a programmer and a system admin than someone who is just a system admin, personally. Someone who can write their own programs to help protect a system, edit other's programs, etc...
*groan* Sams, Publisher of Doom.
In order to know about network security, you need to know how networks really work. Learning how to program can help you learn that. It also allows you to better use/modify your tools. You certainly can't excel in network security without being able to program.
However, starting in with C++ is really not the way to go. Don't approach programming like "I need to learn to program, I'll read this or that book." A better approach would be "I want my computer to do such and such, how can I make it do that."
First thing I'd do is get access to a good shell and the standard set of Unix command line tools. If you're using Lnix/MacOSX/etc, you've already got that. If you're using Windows, try cygwin. Then learn to use the shell. Use to learn pipes and grep to, say, look over log files. That way, you're writing little tiny programs that do something useful for you.
After a short while, you may find yourself want a bit more flexibility. Grab a scripting language package, like Python or Perl. These aren't so detail-oriented as C++, they make it easier to write stuff. You can use them to write little programs to test your network. Again, you're programming as part of network security, not as an end in itself.
So basically what I'm saying is that programming is not a single block of knowledge that you either know or don't know. There are many different levels of knowledge. Don't try to learn it all at once (unless you really want to), learn as much as you need to do what you want.
Hi, first off if you are really picking it up this easily then you really shouldnt have much trubbly when programming,
second off all, it may seem "boring" now but you wate untill you are wrighting your oun programs, it will be so much more exciting for you, especially when you wright one of your won programms and you get to see it run exactily how it was ment to run... You will be like a baby with a new toy (or a man with a new toy)
Just have to keep up with it. It is a valuble qualification, It will alow you to go for more jobs then if you did not have it, and it allso poots you a step up ahead of all the other potential employes.
Good Luck with it..
Nightfalls_Girl
Thanks for all the replies, I never really considered starting with another programming language such as python or perl. This is something that I may look into.
As far as taking classes at a university goes I am currently attending a univeristy but I am a Biology major :wow: but I do love computers and I want to learn about them as a hobby. I know quite a bit about common troubleshooting with a PC but nothing about networkings and how they work.
I also have a copy of linux mandrake 9.0 that I downloaded from the mandrake site. I like it but I have a dsl modem that runs off of usb. I have found the drivers but I dont know enough about linux yet to install the drivers.
Thanks for all the help. :)
I would say you want to make learning to program something that's on your list of to do things. If you don't ever learn, how could you analyze hostile code or shell scripts. It's definately a plus to learn, so people won't have that advantage over you.
--PuRe
Well this debate I've seen before I'm in the 50's something bunch. In security you need one thing communication, in that I mean you have to sit in a room with a bunch of people that if you talk code are gonna glaze over hell they wnder why their mouse jumps (only cause they've not cleaned it for 3 years and it's the IT's dept to do it) and explain how and why you need to do the things you need to do to secure the network. Another is always gonna be be someone younger faster then you and more or less you have to keep them in focus. IT is great fun but throw in some business classes understand the needs of the people you work with and in any busisness production enviroment understand loading the latest hand written code and a re-boot is not an option during the day and even at night if there are remote workers is a pain. M$ hase bloated code with so many what they define as user wants and such your gonna be lucky just keeping up to speed on their latest release and patches. Understand what code is about, Admin a system especally if it is a Win system your not gonna have time. Learn it undestand how it is used nd unless your job is to program delegate it to the coders :) Hey works for me ! Then again I over see actual daily operations.
Personally i dont think you need to know programming to be good at security. There are lots of tools out there that have been written by others to help you with your security work. As long as you know your area of expertise well enough, not knowing programming wont cause too much problems,
After saying that, i have to add that understanding programming really helps a lot as you can understand how things work better and maybe able to solve problems yourself without having to rely on others to come up with programs to help you in your work.
My suggestion to you is learn Python, definately a great language. The code migrates to all platforms and the language itself is rather extensive. You can do anything you want with it, and creating simple programs to ease your daily administrative burdens is no problem. If you are interested I have written a few python tutorials that are on the site. You can find them @Quote:
Originally posted here by N1ghtStalker
Thanks for all the replies, I never really considered starting with another programming language such as python or perl. This is something that I may look into.
As far as taking classes at a university goes I am currently attending a univeristy but I am a Biology major :wow: but I do love computers and I want to learn about them as a hobby. I know quite a bit about common troubleshooting with a PC but nothing about networkings and how they work.
I also have a copy of linux mandrake 9.0 that I downloaded from the mandrake site. I like it but I have a dsl modem that runs off of usb. I have found the drivers but I dont know enough about linux yet to install the drivers.
Thanks for all the help. :)
Python Introduction - http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=244619
Python Introduction II -
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=244642
Python Introduction III - http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=244664
I think it's vastly helpful to any sysadmin to be a programmer.
During my time as a sysadmin, I wrote numerous scripts to automate things - which obviously would have been much harder.
Yes the M$ lovers say you can do everything with Active Directory - I don't believe them. I have scripted many things which I don't have a clue how to do with AD.
In many cases you can avoid evaluating and buying expensive network management tools and create a more appropriate solution for your problem by being a programmer.
Slarty
i dont think you really need a to know a programming language, although i think a scripting language is going to make you job allot easier, for instance say you wanna do the same think over and over again on a network of many computers, it would become pretty tedious to go round to every computer and do the same job again and again
like HTRegz said python is the best (IMO :D ) you can do anything with it and its portable with little difficulty to the majority of platforms, youve probably got it installed if you already got mandrake, try going to the shell and typing python.
You may need to install it but there should be the RPM on disk 2 of the mandrake set, or its not a very big download http://www.python.org
python has loads of modules availiable that really easy your need to do massives of programming, like the blinds in my bedroom are controlled with a ~10 line piece of python script, try doing that in C with the serial port
i2c
well, go for shell scripts, thatss omething I can recommend. start with some basic shell programmes.Python and PERL are good languages to start with. or Otherwise if you want to administrate Micro$oft GUI based environment, start learning Batch files, and about the registry of that product. Programming is still involved to some extent.Being a god c
++ programmer always helps you to be a good administrator.
Bye
Ommy
Hey,
Just wanted to add something else. I know a lot of people are going to knock me for this, but that's ok :)
What do you want to admin? If you are thinking Windows only, then VB is a very viable solution, even if not it's a place to get your foot in the door. That's the only language we were taught in my program, and the prof is a former network admin. He showed us some of the apps he'd developped for use in his network, all done in VB. It's a simple language and will let you do everything you need to.
I actually thought about suggesting VB, but decided not to. The problem I have with VB is not that it's useless (which it isn't), but that I don't think it does a good job of teaching people what programming is about. I use MacOS, so don't think for a second that my anti-VB stance is due to a dislike of clickie buttons. However, VB tries to enforce a certain way of thinking about your code, and I object to that. Also, in my experience, TCP programming in VB is a pain. However, I haven't used recent versions, so that may no longer be the case. (OTOH, the HTTP interfaces in .NET are horrible, so I don't really expect that it's any better in VB.NET.)Quote:
Originally posted here by HTRegz
What do you want to admin? If you are thinking Windows only, then VB is a very viable solution, even if not it's a place to get your foot in the door. That's the only language we were taught in my program, and the prof is a former network admin. He showed us some of the apps he'd developped for use in his network, all done in VB. It's a simple language and will let you do everything you need to.
Also, you have to buy/steal VB, whereas perl/python are free.
Like what j3r and ommy where going at,
maybe you should start with shell scripting first.
It'll give you a really good insight on programming and make you a bit more flexable and enthused about starting a new and more complex language like C++ or Perl/PHP.
Just my two cents.