Ethics of Plagarism

I've decided to start this thread because of a trend I've noticed here and in the kinds of papers I receive from students. I don't know whether it's because students are doing this more, I'm noticing it more or whether search engines are making it easier to find but I've noticed more plagarism than before. What I think surprises me the most is that this seems to be an acceptable activity.

Perhaps I'm old school but when I came on the Internet you respected people who spent the time to create the HowTos, tutorials, pictures, websites, etc. If you wanted to use their work, you sent off an email and asked; or at the least, you referenced where you sourced it and openly admitted it wasn't yours. It was akin to what, IMHO, true hacking was about. You found the solution yourself, albeit it wasn't a pretty one, you were, however, the one who coded it.

When submitting a paper you'd reference sections with appropriate footnotes. When I ask students why they plagarized they look at me dumbfounded. They apparantly didn't know what plagarism is (and for those unaware):

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Sourced: Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Pronunciation: 'plA-j&-"rIz also -jE-&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -rized; -riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
Date: 1716
transitive senses : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive senses : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source

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So perhaps someone could explain to me why it is acceptable to claim that someone else's work is your own? Perhaps because of the advent of massive downloading and trading of warez and because it is just that easy to cut'n'paste. I dunno. Perhaps I'm too idealistic.

Plagiarism astonishes me, I can't imagine posting something I didn't even write and passing it off as my own work. It's just like lying, what's the point!

"Yeah I have like 5 girlfriends dude!" Turns out you don't, then your just a loser trying to impress someone. I bet this practice would stop if someone vigorously pursued those who engaged in it, or we could just contact parents worldwide and have them teach their kids this is wrong like they were supposed to in the first place. What a novel idea!

It is not acceptable for anyone to say that it is their own work when they didn't even type one word of it
Credit and permission from the original writter should be gotten before submiting anything that was not written by them.
If permission is denied then it should not be submitted reguardless of how well written it is. and I consider this to be acceptable

when they use it as a guide to help them over the rough spots or when they have writers block . and the amount
of warez that are being traded doesn't not make it right to say I wrote this when it wasn't. and I also I wonder
how they would feel if they spent hours writing something that they were proud of and then someone came along
and copied and pasted it and said they wrote it, I know I would be pissed if that happened to me. so they shouldn't do it to other people

I don't want to diminish anyone's personal responsibility for
this behavior, but I also think that the educational system
encourages in by being too "results oriented". Instead of
encouraging students to learn "how to learn", they subject
them to a darwinian system in which grades are the
only thing that matters.

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Schools provide a ?cookie-cutter? education, which compels children to vie "for petty and contemptible rewards,"

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http://educationreformbooks.net/failure.htm

You see people come on this site asking for quick and
easy fixes for complex computer problems. The
"script kiddie" phenomenon is part of the same problem,
impatience.
:cool: :cool:

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but I also think that the educational system encourages in by being too "results oriented". Instead of
encouraging students to learn "how to learn", they subject them to a darwinian system in which grades are the
only thing that matters.

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True to a degree. But when do students take responsibility for their own actions?

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when do students take responsibility for their own actions?

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No question, they have to be punished. Years later they will thank
the teachers who upheld strict ethical standards. It's better
to learn it in school than to later be fired from the New York Times
in a major scandal.
:cool:

Hehe.. Ok.. so why is then acceptable to do it online in places like here? Evidentally it's not accepted in society (case in point, the New York Times situation) but apparently it is acceptable on the Internet. Why?

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No question, they have to be punished. Years later they will thank
the teachers who upheld strict ethical standards.

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My professor last year told us the first day "If I catch you plagiarizing you are to walk out the door and you are not to return!" He was an elderly fellow, but I’m sure he still knew his way around the net. I wasn't about to try and pull one over on him.

If your gonna plagarise you have to do right. Like change a lot of words. lol.

I've only plagarised once in my shcool year and that was in highschool. I'm a little nervous to do it in college. If your caught plagarising here at my college its an instant F in that class which sucks. Besides there software now that checks a paper against a database of professionaly written papers.

I think that students plagarise when they realize that they have a 7 page research paper due tommorrow and haven't done a thing to it yet. Thats when they turn to the net and start copying and pasting.

out of curiosity Ms.Mittens, What subject do you teach?

This semester I have two subjects: Network Game Administration and Advanced Network Security. One semester in the Adv Network Security I had 3 out of 4 teams caught plagarizing for their security policies they had to create (heck, some forgot to remove the University or company they "lifted" it from). It was unfortunate that individual members caused this to happen to teammates. I think it was a wake-up call for some (albeit a bit late since this was their last semester).

I used to be amazed how quickly people got busted for
copy&paste tutorials on this site, but then I discovered
what a powerful tool a search engine can be.

You simply cannot get away with it as long as there
is one curious person who checks up on you.
Maybe some places they don't care. "It's only the net"

Maybe people think that posting something on a web site
isn't the same as selling a book, since you aren't
making any money from it.
:cool:

Network Game Administration sure sounds like an interesting course. You wouldn't happen to have a link to that course description would you? You have me interested now.

I wouldn't ever plagarise for a computer project. Afterall thats what I'm majoring in, and it would defeat the purpose if I plagarised security policies and what not. Now I don't think I would have much of a problem plagarising English papers or history papers. As they have nothing to do with computers. But I don't believe I'll ever plagarise. again.

Network Game Administration link. The students have started developing their games and one of the things I like the most about this course (and I think they like it too) is that they can be as creative as they want. :)

You expect students to take responsibility for their actions?

When their parents, elected leaders, corporate executives and other adults are dodging responsibility for their actions.

Not condoning their actions, but hey our students learned very well from us and are maturing into what we deserve as the torch bearers of tomorrow.

I'm not even as involved in AO now as I was about 2 months ago, but I still catch people in some form of plagarism monthly. It seems to be far more rampant online than in school now...probably because the consequences are less severe, but I'm with rcgreen, I'm still amazed at how fast people get nailed after they plagarize....even when I'm the one to point it out, it's still amazing how easy it is to discover that someone's post is unoriginal. What I don't understand is why someone would take credit for an idea when a teacher/professor is equally impressed by a quote or paraphrase (that's properly cited) because they see that you've put some effort into the paper/project/whatever....and the same goes for AO, just say where you found it. I know my professors at school *love* quotes and stuff because it adds some variety and support to the paper. As for copying an entire paper....it isn't difficult to tell when someone has plagarized because the professor can compare it to the person's previous work and you can tell a difference between "See spot run. See spot bark." and "The celestial origin of Spot has been debated throughout human history.".....that's the most complicated sentence I could come up with, lol, but you can see how a person's vocabulary and paper writing skills can't possibly increase that dramatically. So really, it's just a bad idea to plagarize anything....

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Originally posted here by fourdc
You expect students to take responsibility for their actions?

When their parents, elected leaders, corporate executives and other adults are dodging responsibility for their actions.

Not condoning their actions, but hey our students learned very well from us and are maturing into what we deserve as the torch bearers of tomorrow.

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Hell yes, they should take responsibility. The world is a horrible place. For years people hated others and kids learned that from their parents but some kids figured out that just because their parents thought that way, didn't mean they should. The same applies here. Just because CEOs, elected learders, parents and other adults do wrong doesn't mean that you should.

In addition, the work that is submitted by students is what they say is their work. It is there opinion. As an example, the elections office here in Ontario has started a campaign to encourage people to vote. Basically they are saying "If you don't vote, someone else will speak for you". So why would someone submit a paper that isn't their words or ideas? Are they without thought, intelligence, creativity? I know they aren't. Saying that parents, CEO, etc. are all bad and thus, students are merely mimicing what is being done in the world today lessens the credit that our students do deserve.

Honestly, I'm disappointed that the student is afraid to show his/her intelligence and creativity when they submit a plagarized work.

Students don't take responsibility esp. in high school and before because they don't know any better (sorry excuse, but it's true) They need to get the grades, maybe they can't keep up, maybe they aren't trying, maybe whatever, but if it works...

College courses I took the occassional shortcut, but I did it because I didn't want in the class to begin with. Drove me nuts that it was ME who was paying for my education yet someone ELSE is telling me what classes I have to take to become *a well rounded individual*? **** off...I learned nothing in those classes because it did not interest me..it was a waste of my time, a waste of the teacher's time, and maybe a student missed out on taking that class because I was there. The US educational system, as you all know, has more holes in it than a misconfigured 98 machine.

Online, everyone wants to be cool, everyone wants to be 1337, seen this way by others, so they rip tutorials they didn't write, in the hope that nobody will notice. Honestly...I don't care. Anything I have ever written or will ever write, take it and do with it what you will, I'd prefer you didn't change any of the information unless you were updating it/making it better, but as far as my signature being attached to it...that's not why I wrote it. I wrote it to further my knowledge on the subject, and hopefully someone else will come along and read it and do the same. Everyone doesn't feel this way..which is too bad

Star****ers|Inc

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I learned nothing in those classes because it did not interest me..it was a waste of my time, a waste of the teacher's time

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This is the same attitude I hear all the time in the dorm....and it's too bad. You can learn so much from a class that has nothing to do with your career and you really can be better for it. I can tell who's going to fail out because the people that fail have that same attitude, and since they see no point in going to the class they decide to sleep or do something else instead and then fail out of school and can't see that it's their fault for having a crappy attitude. College tests every aspect of your mind, including your outlook on life (attitude), mental capacity, organization, and overall toughness. I believe this is what people mean by it making you "a well rounded individual".

I think you're missing my point...I don't care...I'm not interested in Biology, if I was, I'd learn about it, I'd much rather spend my time doing what I want, especially if I'm paying $3,000 a quarter? I'm not saying you can't learn anything, I'm saying for me personally, it bores the life out of me sitting there pretending to listen to someone talk, it kills me to read that which doesn't interest me, I sit there thinking *I could be playing tennis....I could be reading a book....I could get one hell of a hooker for 3 grand?" lol

I will take more classes, I will take the amount of credits you want, I will diversify, but let me take classes I want -

Star****ers|Inc

Hi,

There is a saying: "Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery"...........hell if anyone plagiarised anything of mine I would be drunk for a week on the ego trip :)

I think that there is a difference between plagiarism and "cheating"...and I think that MsMittens is really talking about the latter?

Just my £0.02 worth

Cheers

Thanks for the link Ms.Mittens.

I think I have to kinda lead toward Star****er here. I just paid $3700 for one quarter of school, and the only class that I'm taking that is computer related is Management Information Systems. THe rest are history, math, english, biology. The only course I see that has something to do with me degree is Math, nothing else does. I guess thats what you get though when you attend a liberal arts college.

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I just paid $3700 for one quarter of school, and the only class that I'm taking that is computer related is Management Information Systems.

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Hey cheyenne, if your poor, like me, you get benefits from the state to aid in funding your schooling. :-p

Thats the problem. I couldn't get aid from anyone, including the state and government. The only aid I got was $750 fromt the college.

Oh well life goes on.

But does that justify the problem? Just because you are doing something you don't like? I don't buy it. The courses I teach are not required. Students take them because they heard about the war games or how fun the course is or how I teach or whatever. I always leave options open for students (at least 3 topics plus the option to write about what they want to) and yet... I still get plagarism.

So I don't buy that "I don't want to take this course and it does nothing to forward where I want to be" is a justification or reasoning for plagarism.

Heck, not even in the school environment. Look at here. No one forces people to write tutorials and yet, we see lots of cut'n'paste exercises, even with "indignation" and claims that it's their original work, even with proof otherwise. So claiming that the reasoning for the plagarism is because it's due to being forced to do something we don't want to, I don't buy it.

Lastly, as someone in the process of developing a degree, the reason those courses are there that you don't like or don't want to take is to show you what else might be available (other paths). Granted, with this program that I'm creating everything is applied/problem solving type courses and all directed to the final goal with students choosing their "optional outside-of-degree" electives (for the exact reason you mention -- I want students to go through the program and want to be there; I don't want them to drop out beforehand).

When I went to university and took my political science degree, I had to take Medical Ethics. Now what does that have to do with Poli Sci? Nothing. It was interesting anyways because I opened my mind to a different point of view. You will go through life doing things sometimes that you don't want to do. Learn to adapt. It will benefit you in the long run. Trust me on this.

ok ppl plagerise becose it is so much easier then wrighting it your self.
Plus there is all this preshoure on you to do really well, you know that you cant do it, so you copy others works.


Nightfalls_Girl...

p.s i find a little irony in this.

It is called appropreation in art if you take anuthers work and slightly eddit it create one of your won. yet to take a peace of litrature and slightly eddit it and call it your own it is classed plagerisom... HMmmm


Nightfalls_Girl

Plageriasm as well as being a difficult word to spell is nothing more than a sincere lack of creativity and intelligence. God, a little hard work and anyone with a ounce of ambition can create a good tutorial say. I would also be flattered if somebody stole my tutorial but hey after a while wouldnt it piss you off that somebody else claims credit for say the Newbie FAQ which is a lot of work in there!

;)

may be but yet most things piss me off...


Nightfalls_Girl

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THe rest are history, math, english, biology. The only course I see that has something to do with me degree is Math

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While I quote cheyenne1212 .. I am commenting in a broard manner.. While Math may be a subject that has a direct connection to your intended goal studied. the other subjects are needed by YOU. they were not throwen in to fill in the day and there for help keep a teacher occupied. English is like art it is for the linguistic creativity. History is to help kee[ things in perspective.. Bioligy..now that one is a bit hard to explain.. but you may understand how that mold growth on your desk near the month old pizza and dried fries, came into being.. ..

Chemistry was boring.. I used the knowledge and the learning skills from that subject many times in my work as a tech, as well I have wished I had tried harder in english, my ability to move forward is hampared by my grammatic skills as well as writing creativly.. you need it.. History,, that is where we I learnt the truth about what the cinima taught me.. and to question what the media/polititions say.


as for plagarism. there is only one excuse for plagerism.. oh and no reason.. Laziness.. the inability of one to use their own imagination to creativly quote another persons work.

Something is only boring when you donot know how usefuland valuable that time realy is to you and your future ..


Cheers

There is no excuse for plaigarism, and it is a problem for two reasons:

1) In this day and age it is easier than ever; and
2) even though you can do a quick check in a search engine to see if something is blatantly ripped off, it is not happening regularly enough to deter people from copying stuff.

At my uni if you get busted for plaigarism, you get kicked out, no exceptions. This sort of attitude along with more stringent checking by those people who mark papers would result in people taking plaigarism and copying more seriously.

ur a brissy dood :)


Nightfalls_Girl

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While I quote cheyenne1212 .. I am commenting in a broard manner.. While Math may be a subject that has a direct connection to your intended goal studied. the other subjects are needed by YOU. they were not throwen in to fill in the day and there for help keep a teacher occupied. English is like art it is for the linguistic creativity. History is to help kee[ things in perspective.. Bioligy..now that one is a bit hard to explain.. but you may understand how that mold growth on your desk near the month old pizza and dried fries, came into being.. ..

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I absolutely hate English. I do not see how it is an art for linguistic creativity. I think my word choices are fine as they are. I always like history, but the way this teacher teaches it, makes it so boring and hard.

Good news for history class though: Listen to this: when I was in my computer class, I had to get on the network to take a test from my teachers computer. Now to do this I had to access a server. So the teacher told us a username and password that gave me access to the server. Inside the server, I found my history teachers presentations that she does for class. I was so close to deleting them all, but my conscience took hold. Oh well Maybe later.

Everyone should do their own work or if they are going to borrow someone else's, they should credit them for their work.

A general complaint in this thread is the "well rounded student" excuse by institutions of higher education for making you waste your time taking general education courses. I didn't need Art Appreciation or Music Appreciation to appreciate the subject but had to take the courses anyway. Colleges have to keep you there for four years, the growing trend is five, to soak you or your parents for every cent.

MIT is now offering "Charm School" for engineering students. If they want to learn how to dance they should go to Arthur Murray after they graduate!

If the "Technology Estate" wants progress, we would move to specific certificate programs that focus on the actual need instead of fluff.

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Originally posted here by fourdc
MIT is now offering "Charm School" for engineering students. If they want to learn how to dance they should go to Arthur Murray after they graduate!

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Hehe... You know why that's being offered, eh? I've gotten this feedback from students, professors and employers: many people who graduate from computer programs are really talented but don't know how to interact with users. While BOFH is fun (and funny from an outside point of view) it isn't necessarily the best way to keep a job.

I think they are trying to create a "friendlier" engineer as it were. :)

I've had to deal with plagarism both as a journalist and as an instructor. There are things I've written in the past that have been taken and used by others, with no credit to the originator (me). Fortunately, I can show prior art to establish my authority on those items, if necessary.

Does it hurt? Yeah, that was hard work on my part and some creep just took it and passed it off as his or her own.

Who does it hurt? Me. But is also calls into question the credibility of the offender when the act is discovered. So, from my point of view, it hurts the offender more than it does me. I still have my honor, pride and integrity (and prior art). The offender has none of those things.

Would I do it? No. Have I been tempted? Yeah, back in high school. But I didn't do it then, either.

Granted, journalism isn't what it used to be. Today, the field is dominated by the broadcast media, where talking heads are not much more than shills for network or sponsors. Also, the recent events in major newspapers have cast the entire profession in a bad light--which should stand as a case in point. Anyway, when I was a working journalist, my reputation for providing solid, original and well crafted news, features and opinion was a source of pride and kept me employed (too bad it didn't pay better).

I think plagerism boils down to a character issue. If you take the shortcut, plagarize, cut-n-paste, you are exhibiting a weakness of character. You are also showing disrespect for your audience (the teacher, professor, peers). Some of the comments in this thread take potshots at curriculum and claim that irrelevant courses are justification for taking the shortcuts. My only response to that is there is no unimportant work. Any work you perform is important. Not just for the goal of the grade or degree, but for the whole person.

I once thought of art appreciation or music appreciation as being irrelevant. I managed to waive through an art course in college. But, not long ago, I found that bringing a creative, artistic activity into your life is refreshing and healing. I took a drum making course from a friend. I learned both a commercial style method and traditional method for hand drums.

So, maybe you don't like a course, don't want to do a paper. Making the effort to do the work, do the research, develop the ideas, may lead you into areas you never imagined before.