Eating Hard drives

My system consists of a SOYO MB, Tualatin 1.2g processor, HP floppy drive, Sony CD Rom, ATI Radeon 7500 graphics card, and an Intel 56k modem. In the last year, I have killed 2 new Maxtor 20 gig hd, a new Western Digital 60 gig hd, and am reduced to using a 6 gig WD hd with a bad boot sector. I have a 2.5 gig Seagate hd installed just to get it to boot. I have gone thru a 1.2 gig WD hd, and a 2.1 gig Quantum Fireball hd serving in the same capacity.
Can anyone suppy any advice on what to do or where to look for a solution to this problem?

Sorry, I forgot to add : The average CPU temp is 91 degrees F, System temp is 86 degrees F

do the hard drives just stop working or do they make any sort of sounds??

any other hardware failing as well, or that you're having problems with?

Some gurgle to death, some just slow down and die, some give no warning. No other hardware failure

Have you tried any of the HDs in other machines to see what's happened?

Yes, and unfortunately none have ever worked again. On one Maxtor, I was able to view the contents of the drive before croaking completely, and there was nothing but gibberish where the files were.

A quick guess would be the power supply is faulty. I would also change the HDD cable, and get a surge protector extension strip between your mains supply and your PC.

Do your lights flicker a lot/ blow bulbs frequently?

Cheers

I'd go with Nihil. Sounds like a power supply problem. Sounds like this has been a costly problem if you've lost so many HDs. I know it doesn't help but I'd consider salvaging what you can from the box and cutting your losses by getting rid of it. Experimenting to find the problem could cost you more. If you're determined to sort it out, and can live with the cost, then please let us know what you find out. Sorry I can't be aymore help.

Good Luck

I do have a surge protector, and I recently replaced the original 300 watt P.S. with a new same wattage P.S. I replace cables every 6 months as a matter of maintainence, and the lights only flicker during our 2 or 3 times a year rainstorms(no lie!!) which is what makes this so screamingly frustrating. Also, the system is only run 10-12 hours a day

I do wish to know the cause, but that might not be a bad idea Elmore. Thanks to all who help. It has become one of those things where the desire for the solution is based more on pride than good sense. I will not be defeated by a mere machine.......

Frying four hard drives in a year ?

You don't have a security guard attaching his magnetic flashlight to the case at night, do you?

I would first go with power:
. surge protector already covered.
. is the main (house ) source supply properly grounded?

Then environment ( static charges ):
. where is the case? Is it on the floor, on a carpet, on the desk ?
. Is it very dry air? Do you ever get a shock when touching the the case, etc.?

I have also seen hard drives fried because of voltage spikes in phone lines ( someone takes out a pole down the road, the wires cross ) but that usually fries the modem as well. A good surge protector should have a place for the phone jack.

And if you are using a cable modem make sure it is properly grounded ( my cable company actually goes around and checks these every once in a while )

By the way, when the drives are installed in the case does the case ground them? Drives used to have grounding plugs but they did away with them because most get grounded with the attaching screws anyway, It might be worth a look.

Hey Guy's !!

CLUE:

Quote:

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Sorry, I forgot to add : The average CPU temp is 91 degrees F, System temp is 86 degrees F

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well these are not to bad.. but if you want to kill 7200rpm hdds.. try running them in a poorly ventilated case 24hrs a day for 30 or so days.. and dead hdd is the result..

In this situation the only failure seems to be the hdds all are most likley 7200rpm types.. especialy the 60G.. only thing that shoots this idea is the older (smaller) hdds dieing as well..

hmm another thought.. do you do Lan game a lot?.. moving the system around could be subjecting the system to vibration that can lead to failure of hdds.. .. idea only..

You don't mention other problems.. is the system stable? that is when the hdds are running ok.. if you had PSU probs or even heat related there would be other clues..normaly..

but a possability as nihil mentions are spikes on the mains.. he asked if light dim and blowen bulbs.. well a spike is hi voltage - high frequency bursts of electricity that are able to pass from the mains input to to dc output with out being touched by the PSU filters.. (cheap PSUs that is).. only to zap some poor device.. .. the cpu and mem are prptected by their own MOBO PSU.. hmm and you've had co cd-rom/cd-rw/DVD-rom failures in this time?

dambed.. too confusing.. sry

cheers

I think the problem is with the power supply. Try another PS and see the result.
Otherwise post more details about any other problems if any, and if this problems started after you installed a certain HW/SW .

:)

As many had said it could be the power supply. But i would have to take a guess and also blame the MotherBoard i had amother board that used to fry Proccessors after 3 weeks of use, i just tossed the motherboard away and got a new one and that fixed the problem.

Also check if a cable or a metal piece from the motherboard isn't making a short circuit if you have the HD's directly facing the metal of the case.

After re-reading the posts.. and my own earlier reply..

1/ The system runs 10-12 hrs a day.. hmm..
2/ Some of the drives become noisey or slow before failure.. some just out right fail.. mmmmm
3/ Your CPU and System temps seem normal..

The noisey failure drives were the bigger ones..right? maxtor and WD?

Question.. when your system has been running for an hour or so.. Put your hand on the top of the HDD.. is it warm.. or do you have to get first-aid for burn't fingies... (This applies to the large type drives.. BTW: this test is with the machine runn with the case on untill you test the hdd ..

Power probs/ spikes etc can be blamed for the sudden failure drives.. but not often do you have mechanics fail due to a controller card failure due to power probs.. heat stress is very likley.. ALSO.. Controller boards will fail due to high operating temps.. and suddenly..

I have machines here that run 24/7 and the HDD's never get more than 3 degrees over ambient temp.(oops I lie here.. in winter they run at 30deg..with room temp less than 10 deg). or max at 40 deg C (that is not bad when summer gets to over 42deg C)..
the drive can and will exceed 65deg C in under 30 mins if the drives heat is not dissapated by some means.. good metal on metal contact on the frame of the drive bay and hence the case as well as a reasonable air flow.. helps heaps..


cheers

This really is most strange?

The most common causes are:

1. Faulty PSU. But you have changed that
2. Power spikes/surges. But you have a protector.
3. Faulty connector/earth(ground). But you have changed the cable, and IMHO you have lost too many for it to be the drive ground in the machine............law of averages says you should have got at least 1 out of 5 "right" :)
4. Temperature.......we have not fully eliminated this one yet? I think you need to follow Und3ertak3r's advice and check that. But I would have expected your system temperature to be higher? It would depend on the position of the sensor and the drives, but it seems low enough to me.
5. EMF/EMP. But it is hard to figure where magnetic fields/pulses are coming from?
6. Mishandling. Well 5 seems too many, and I move computers around all the time without problems.

A lot of these I would expect to kill the drive right away? whereas your symptoms seem to suggest cumulative damage or an intermittent fault?

You say that these are "new" drives, and this has happened in the last year? have you tried sending the drives back to the manufacturer? They have labs and people who check what caused the problem, particularly when it is still under warranty. Basically we can only make educated guesses, they can investigate.

You might like to go to the Western digital website and get their toolkit. Install the dead WD drive as "D" and run their diagnostics. It should give you a fault code (used to be a three digit number). If you contact their technical support they should be able to tell you what it means?

I am over here in the UK. We have a 5amp ring main for the lights, and a 13 amp ring main for the sockets. It would thus be possible to have a faulty socket main, and the lights would work perfectly. I would get your power supply company/an electrician to check your mains supply, particularly that negative and ground (earth) are connected and functioning correctly.

I would certainly do this before spending more money on kit!

Keep us posted

Good luck

you know nihil,

there is a question we haven't asked yet..

Did any one mention LAN Parties?.. if the machine attends a lot of these.. wellllll..
EMF/EMP.. old sewing machine near the system or thumping great SUB Woofer on desk next to Tower.. SUB SONIC VIBRATION KILLS HDD'S.. or Jack hammers working next-door for the past 12mths..
It is possable for the HDD's to be sitting in stagnet air in the case.. while there is excellent air flow over the mobo.. to action around the hdd.. just a thought.. there are some crappy case designs..

dambed.. I keep going back to the heat theory.. sry.. you know about the only bits not blamed sofar are the video card and the floppy drive..
Oh .. why "Replace the Cables regurly for maintainance"? ... the less I have to unplug and replug things the less problems I have with the equipment..

cheers

Hi Und3ertak3r,

You have a point there. Are there any other electrical appliances within 3 feet of the computer?

Also, are there any neon lights, a washing machine or a refrigerator on the same electrical circuit?

I have seen a faulty desk fan take down a screen. Neon lights were always a problem, but were usually on a different circuit. I have also seen systems crashed by devices that cut in and cut out such as electric motors. In a domestic situation that would be the washing machine and the freezer? And the machine is left on 12 hours per day.

Vibration is one I had not thought of. This might even be from traffic or aircraft?...time to move house.

I have never encountered LAN parties, so that is a new one on me :confused:

Heat would seem to be the favourite though?

Cheers

Elo, Just refound my password here and so I am gonna start being active on this forum, my other one crpped out on me. I had this happen tome, fried three hardrives, but I Knew the problem straight away. The circut board on most HDD's is exposed, and if the case touches one while the HDD is running, the HDD will go boom. No lie. Any loose pieces of metal or anything that come in contact with the HDD? Hope it helps.

Allow me to throw out a couple additional ideas--tack these on to what nihil suggested:

1. How tightly is(are) the hard drive(s) packed into the case? How much air space around it(them)?
2. Have you tried to swap out the HDD controller? I suspect that you may have a problem there, that existed when the first HDD died. Likely, the controller is part of the motherboard, so you would have to swap the motherboard to test this.
3. What kind of surge protector do you have? Are all three lines filtered? If you are using a cheapie from the local department store, you may only be filtering one phase.
4. Get a multimeter (digital, preferrably) on the power outlet that feeds your system. What is the voltage output (AC) on the socket? Does the voltage fluctuate greatly (more than 10 perent either direction)? Be sure to measure each side.


Uh ... mmmmm ... anybody got a toothpick. Got an actuator stuck in a molar.
;)

I don't think anyone else mentioned this, but you may not want to use the power saving feature that slows down the harddrive. You will get more life out of your drive by keeping it always on and running at the same speed. Everytime the harddrive has to slow down and speed up, it adds more wear and tear if that makes sense to you. Hope the info helps.


--PuRe

Well, sorry for being away so long. I believe Und3ertak3r has hit the nail on the head. I touched my HD and did infact discover that it was very warm. VERY warm. All this time I had been concentrating on adequate airflow for the MB and CPU, I hadnt realized that it was insufficient for the HD's as well. Like an idiot, I had both HD's and the floppy installed in the same bays together. I have seperated the floppy from them and with an adapter installed it in a 5.25 bay, and created a space between the HD's. I also installed another fan to eliminate heat from the HD's. Stupidity has a price lol. BTW, what is a lan party?

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what is a lan party?

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oh maaaaaaaate... A Lan Party!

Quake III
Half Life
Counter Strike
UT2003
WarcraftIII
Serious Sam (bit lame)

Pizza, caffine (lots of both) Hubs, switches, servers.. F@%I<.. caffine more pizza and more cafffine..

A LAN Party, is where a group of ppl get together connect their computers via a LAN to play against each other in the above mentioned Multiplayer games and more..

Cheers..


BTW: I am pleased that it looks like you have located the source of the problem.. In the process I have seen some extra ideas for future problems.. ie I learnt something.. so thank you for asking the question..

try buying the IBM hitachi hard drive for about 60 gig

Works perfect not much money nice price. People say its a very good brand of HD

Just trying to help