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I am considering joining the portal over at http://www.astalavista.net due to the fact that certain topics here cause to much whats right to ask/whats wrong to ask BS. And that too many kiddies come in here and think there so funny with there pubescent posts.
I figuring the membership cost will keep most kiddies out, and that I wont be jumped on if I ask questions about exploits.
So I am just wondering if anyone here is a member or knows anything about it?
LOL....What a polite way of saying "This site is f@#king pathetic and Astalavista is much better......." ;)
im a member well worth the money just for the wargames and files the forums are just a bonus
Ah yes, the age old dilema on computer security forums.
I want to learn real computer security stuff, but how can I do this when the subject of 'eeeek' exploits and 'ssshhhhhhh' methods of compromise are unspeakable to say the least? You have to understand that forums like A.O. are bombarded with lamers asking stupid How do I hack XXXXX questions, and it is hard sometimes to distinguish a lamer from a person with genuine white-hat interest, especially if you don't know them
I don't have the answer you probably want to hear, and some A.O. folks may take offense. However, here is what little advice I have to give, I hope it helps, but you must understand that hacking is a skill you can only get by being self-taught, all else is bogosity to the extreme.
- Text files and forums teach little or nothing about computer security at the level you clearly want to explore. Neither do books, which are a better resouce than the afore mentioned.
- Install a BSD or Linux on any computer you can get as your learning box, can be an old cheap SparcStation 5, x86 486, HP 9000 C110, or whatever and do yourself a huge favor and don't install X on it, use just the command line to start.
- Visit http://www.phrack.org and download their issue tarballs, and most importantly read them, well the newer ones anyway.
- Get the latest RFC tarball and begin studying those RFC's that apply to area's that interest you.
- Visit Mixter's site and checkout everything offered there.
- Visit Fyodor's site and checkout everything offered there.
- Head over to packetstormsecurity and browse the papers, source, and miscellanious things that interest you, including the forums.
- Learn C, Perl, Python, Sed & Awk, Regular Expressions, Borne Shell scripting, x86 ASM, SPARC ASM, and RISC ASM
- Learn BSD Sockets, and UNIX Programming (at least the simple stuff)
- Last but not least, you will need a vulnerability lab because these skills can not be learned by reading alone, and until you can not only penetrate the security on a system but develop your own simple proof-of-concept programs, you are just another wannabe lamer. Hacking on real machines, or even hacking-ish activity on someone's network can and will earn you 5 - 10 in the slammer, and I know you are a good-guy not some lamer so build a home network to hone your skills on.
Do something along the lines of the following with your vuln-net:
- Get some cheap computers, under $60 USD from eBay or whatever source you can find.
Make them as disparate as possible within reason of what companies actually run and
will request your services to secure, e.g. Sun, IRIX, HP-UX, FreeBSD, RedHat, Win2000 Server, Win2003 Server, SCO (yuck! puke!), etc.
- At some point add a switch, and possibly a terminal server to the vuln-net. Mostly because
hacking on a switched network is a whole new ball-game which requires different strategies.
If you still want to join Astalavista, and I'm not telling you not to, then that is cool. Just don't forget about us here on A.O. :)
That has go to be one of the most helpful and useful posts I have read to date on this site.
I know there a lot of Sys Admin's on this site who obviously and for good reason dont want to tell everyone who asks how to break into systems, networks etc, however this site comes up on a lot of search engines when some one enters "Hacking" as a keyword, so naturally people come and think that they can learn all about hacking from here and usualy make a silly first post along them lines.
Your post however informs people where to start, where to look and what to do if they are serious about learning new skills and enhancing any they may already have, BUT it did not tell people step by step, how to "Hack", if they are serious about learning they will follow your steps if they expect some one to show them step by step they will still be non the wiser, it seperated the lamers from genuine people.
A very good post, thank you!
Thanks for the positive response.
c vat i belive is no one can teach you hacking ,u need ur own skills to do it its not like
2+2=4 ,every thing has a different way and one can share the knowledge at sites like anti online and etc .vat i say is o.k i agree that the fees at altsvista can keep kiddes out but what about the people who are really talented and poor ( asians) (* no carding won't help*)and ther e may be sons of some rich fathers who have a credit cards north america.well iwon't totally go against it but if u can afford then join it.its not that u must
well i hope u like my advice
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get fast get furious!!!
ive used it for quite sometime now.
If you want to find out info about hacking etc it is prob the best site ive been to, the main difference between that site and this is that with this site most of the people seem to be a bit more mature and forthcoming with any help they give you.
Its money well spent tho.
yep i'd agree with that,it is obviously more aimed at people who want to take up hacking where as this site is more aimed at the security type people!
I have not really looked into astalavista forums, but I'm sure since you all say it is good that it is. The only problem is that I am 16 and dont have a credit card. I suppose the money keeps skiddies away, but it also hurts people like me who are young and dont have access to CC's to pay for the knowledge. Anyway, I like AO a whole lot, and it find it quite informative. Nice people like Mittens and Nihil who know a bunch. Do both, you'll learn more, or get a different view point on things.
-It is I, me-
WELL..yes i do agree..AO is a geat place...it has turned many kiddies to serious and geneuine learners...they came up here with a lame post..but now they are into serious learning...I can quote a bunch of examples, their lves certainly got CHANGED by AO....intentions for learning is something thats important and all the hacking and security skills come down the road...
Keep Learning
Ommy
Well i wouldnt go that far dood, its an internet site, not a way of life!
But i think i know what your trying to say.
Well I agree with ommy... when I first came here (last November) my interests were completely black-hat (I know completely narrowminded...). I was nothing but a script kiddy. But antionline has completely changed me, It was nearly a year ago now and my interests couldn't be any more white hat.
The purpose of this post is try and persuade people to consider white hat before they jump in with the black hats.
Being an AO member for roughly two years now, I can certainly say that this is a pretty good place for learning and gathering information regarding security. Sure, we get the lamers, the kiddies, the general idiots who aren't here for the right reasons. But I feel that the system has at least, to a degree, a form of policing that works for the most part. Now don't get me wrong, this site has seen some good times and some bad times - we've lost a few well respected members because of the way some things have happened. But if you read these threads and learn to ask the right questions, you will learn. Trust me...
On the other hand, I'm a fan of reading and learning as much as I can.. Yes, you may not be looked upon unfavorably if you ask questions regarding exploits, etc. as you say - but I could give you a few sites right now where you wouldn't even have to pay to ask those questions freely... Further, those questions can be asked here, as long as it's from a learning/discussion standpoint, not from a "How can I use the latest IE exploit to..." - those questions are BS, used by lamers, and not welcomed here.
I guess what I'm saying after all that rambling is that AO is a great source of information - we are not a skiddy hangout, don't claim to be, nor do we want to be. We are (for the most part), intelligent students, professionals, and knowledge seekers here to discuss security (and many times other things) and learn from each other...
My slightly > $0.02