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We all know about the proven existence of energy. Energy is used to complete a task. But what about energy itself? Is energy something that has mass? Does energy exist in such a way that you could hold it?
I say no. I think energy is something from nothing, meaning that it is like 1/0. It exists but not as a physical entity like atoms. It channels power through atoms but energy itself is comprised of nothing. What are your views?
Energy is not matter, therefore it cannot have a state or a state change, energy is energy. It can be slowed down, like light has been, but it is not matter, it is energy, this is why it is seperate from matter.
This is believed to be true. But when you break down matter what do you get? Atoms, and when you break those down? Protons, neutrons, electrons, and when you break those down? quarks, and some other tiny stuff. But what about when you break those down? You will reach a point where it cant be broken down, where there are a few charged paricles wizzing around. When you break these down do you know what you will find? Energy. Energy is the nothing that makes up everything. Energy is undestroyable so you cant even break it down. It is unfathomable, the powers of energy. (Pardon the pun). You are right, to our knowledge it is not matter, but how many dimensions are there? 3? More? we don't know, so maybe we haven't found all the states of matter yet. So maybe it is. Remember: A closed mind lets in no air.
There is a lot more here. just 150 years ago physics had no good way of explaining atoms. Maybe energy is something we thought it wasn't. Maybe it is another dimension, like x,y,z. But what is the parralel? Most dimensions tend towards symmetry, meaning that x,y,z, and even time move at the same pace. Is energy different? No, if you have the same reaction with the same numbers of atoms the same energy level will be present. Meaning that Energy is measurable, like the popular E=MC^2 equation. Energy is not random, it is symmeterical, so it could very well be a dimension.
I argue that energy is matter. Without matter there can be no energy?
Energy is excited matter.
I think that atomic eneergy and atomic weapons have shown taht enstine was right and energy is matter, they are the same thing in a difrent forms, and we can turn matter into energy (heat, light, and kenetic being the most often created.), now if we could figure out how to pull of the reverse we would be getting somewhere.Quote:
Originally posted here by Drakain Zeil
Energy is not matter, therefore it cannot have a state or a state change, energy is energy. It can be slowed down, like light has been, but it is not matter, it is energy, this is why it is seperate from matter.
I believe you mean cold fuision.
IIRC from high school science and chemistry, you can turn matter in to energy, but not the reverse. Has to do with the Law of Thermodynamics or something. So, yes, to a point, matter and energy are the same thing. But something gets lost in the translation when one becomes the other.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, matter loses mass when it is converted to energy.
Homework assignment: everybody write a haiku on the Law of Thermodynamics.
;)
I think that energy is just the movement of particles, like heat is molecules in an exited state, and electricity is just electrons moving through a conductor. So, because it is the movement of particles it sould have no mass as it is not the particles themselves.
close but not exaxctly, fusion is the process of taking to atoms and turning them into one atom (of a slightly smaller size then the mass of the two indavidualy). This generates a lot of energy and can be done in a controlled enviroment now, unfortunitly it takes a *LOT* of heat to produce fusion (in fact it takes more energy then it creates.) so its a no go for energy production...now if (relativly) cold fusion where made poss. we would solve the worlds energy needs.Quote:
look at the equation E(energy)=M(mass)*C^2(speed of light ^2)Quote:
Originally posted here by rapier57
IIRC from high school science and chemistry, you can turn matter in to energy, but not the reverse. Has to do with the Law of Thermodynamics or something. So, yes, to a point, matter and energy are the same thing. But something gets lost in the translation when one becomes the other.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, matter loses mass when it is converted to energy.
Homework assignment: everybody write a haiku on the Law of Thermodynamics.
;)
well takeing a small amount of mass we get a large amount of energy bucause that constant is a stupidly big number but E/c^2 = M IT would take a *Very* large amount of energy to make a very small amount of mass, not very cost effective.
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Lol I was going to use good old Einstein's equation on Energy Mass Relation as an argument. It states energy and mass are related and you can even find out how much energy is needed to bind the nucleus of atoms from that E=MC^2 thing. You see, through this equation and his mathematics, he states that energy and mass are equivalent.
Now for the argument that energy is only channeled through atoms and it not tangible. I have been pondering that but got side tracked by the matter/energy relationship because in my understanding of the universe, based on measured experiments: matter and energy are the same and related directly. Energy is particles of matter in and excited state.
Even if you break molecules down to atoms and atoms to electrons etc..., the underlying energy or "force" holding it all together are magnetic fields. In fact the electron theory or how energy is transmitted through a conductor is a theory. We can't see electrons. We can detect something and make a hypothesis and it all seems to work because we can accurately explain how molecules are made and map and predict which valence electrons need to be exchanged in order to make something like water (H2O) out of available and known elements.
The underlying substrate of all atoms and particles is good old magnetic flux, and possibly gravity. The correlation to another dimension has nothing to do with energy. It's the lack of anything or "free space" that implies the possibility of alternate space time continuums. When you get that small there is A LOT of free space, something on the magnitude of 99.99999999 percent? The problem is, this free space is the size of a proton or so. And that leads into threads and other purely hypothetical alternate dimension and time travel theories. Hmm all these recent topics seem to be pointing to: proving or disproving time related entities?
The theory goes something like, since there is all this SPACE, something extremely small could exist in that space and not be part of that atom’s makeup and is undetectable in our universe or more accurately called our “continuum” It’s only relation to energy that I can see is it’s orientation to the flux of our universe. If it’s aligned, we could perceive it, if not aligned it’s completely invisible.
Using this train of thought, a particle such as a neutrino could theoretically exist inside and outside of our continuum because it can fit in this tiny area of free space outside the make up of an atom of matter. I could buy that and as more research is refined I could begin to accept it, it’s definitely plausible. But once again that does not preclude or even substantiate any means of time travel and we would have no way to ever detect the object unless the flux is changed.
Copyright 2003
Road Closed
Ouch, my brain hurts!
BTW, RoadClosed, people have been putting up a bunch of signs with your name on 'em all around the area lately.
Too much rain.
Yes I am taking over the highways.
Here's a concept I apply. Energy = "Relativistic" Mass as stated in Einstein's Theory of "Relativity"
Lol yeah a stupid big number. C is the speed of light in a vacuum, which is 299,792,458 (meters per second) then you square the whole thing! So you have to multiply the mass by almost 300 million to get a small amount of energy.Quote:
well takeing a small amount of mass we get a large amount of energy bucause that constant is a [glowpurple]stupidly big number [/glowpurple] but E/c^2 = M IT would take a *Very* large amount of energy to make a very small amount of mass, not very cost effective.
Energy and matter are linked by a constant - e=mc^2 therefore energy and matter are the same thing.Quote:
Originally posted here by RoadClosed
I argue that energy is matter. Without matter there can be no energy?
Energy is excited matter.
Energy has different properties depending on the type - Kinetic has velocity, Thermal has heat.
Matter is just a form of energy that has its own special proerties that we percieve in certian ways (It can be solid liquid or gas etc etc)
Steve
Energy is not just radiation (light) there are many many other forms of energy.Quote:
Originally posted here by Drakain Zeil
Energy is not matter, therefore it cannot have a state or a state change, energy is energy. It can be slowed down, like light has been, but it is not matter, it is energy, this is why it is seperate from matter.
Energy can not be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another.
Therefore when a nuclear reactor converts matter into heat energy this is simply an example of energy changing from on state (matter) to another (heat)
Steve
Hey Steve, Nice post, It looks like you're trying to recap and simplify things but I totally disagree with this statement:
To my understanding it's exactly the opposite. Energy is derived from matter. In fact the most simplified explanation possible is: Energy is vibrating matter. The vibration was set in motion with the big bang and will continue until the end or our continuum. Even the plastic surrounding your keyboard has vibrating molecules in it waiting to be released somehow. You can't stop them (absolute zero aside).Quote:
Matter is just a form of energy
Einstein's equation is not as straight forward as it looks. In contemporary physics the energy -mass relation is only good at doing conversions. It's more like, wherever there is mass then there is energy and wherever there is energy there is mass - not just that energy will always equal mass. But it does say Energy is Mass not Mass is Energy.
Hmm particles… one could argue that mass is made of energy because when you break it down mass is made up of matter and the building blocks of matter are atoms. Atoms have energy in themselves but they are just charged physical particles moving (vibrating) around. At their ground energy level they just set there happily humming away.
But we can change this state and produce energy from the matter of the atom. For instance, if one takes away some of the energy, the nucleus can no longer hold onto all of its electrons and they no longer bind to the atom and float away. The atom becomes ionized. If you add energy to an atom, such as introducing photons from light or colliding it with another atom it becomes excited and vibrates even more. Possibly colliding with more atoms and adding to their own energy levels.