Spyware - A little bit of info

Printable View

November 10th, 2003, 10:31 PM
spools.exe

Spyware - A little bit of info

OKay i would first like to start out stating that i feel that spyware is wrong no matter what the case. When i say spyware i mean Keyloggers an so fourth that are placed on a computer to log a students, childs, or employee's keystrokes.

Well first i would like to say that if your going to install one you MUST remember to place them in stealth mode. With programs such a "SpectorPro" a little red dot will show up in you IconTray when its not in stealth. Also remember to password protect them

Also if you have a program such as GoBack by Roxio remember to clear the GoBack history after installing the program. Note: If you do not do so a user will be able to do the GoBack function and revery that state of your computer back to before the installation on the SpyWare. This is only possible if the password protection for GoBack is not enabeled of the user knows the pass. I would recommend setting a password.

Quote:

REASON FOR POST

My father recently installed Spector Pro on my computer and that made me a little mad. I know it is possible to delete manually in safe mode but i decided to take the easy way out. i did a GoBack on my computer back to before the program was installed. Created a VB program that puts a red dot in the IconTray and when you click on the red dot it propmts you for a pass (just like spector). When he puts in a password and presses "ok" it gives him an error saying "Invalid Password!".

This is in no way bad what i did. It was my computer that i bought with my own money. He put that on MY computer and i have the right to remove it.
November 10th, 2003, 10:44 PM
/|Glacier|\

Quote:

OKay i would first like to start out stating that i feel that spyware is wrong no matter what the case. When i say spyware i mean Keyloggers an so fourth that are placed on a computer to log a students, childs, or employee's keystrokes.

Ok first you said childs keystrokes. So you are not for Investigating child predators online conversations? (via carnivore or keylogger) Dont forget about terrorist investigations either.
November 10th, 2003, 11:32 PM
allenb1963

Sorry spools, but I have to disagree with you on this one. If you are working in a corporate environment, then you are working on a machine that YOUR EMPLOYER owns...not you. Said employer also owns you (in a way) during your assigned work hours...you are there to be a productive empoyee and assist in improving the company's bottom line. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time playing "fantasy football" at espn.com, chatting with your buddies about what's up for the weekend, emailing your girlfriend or spouse (or both in some cases) then you are involved in a form of theft. Actually, it could be argued that you are "double-dipping" as you are stealing a human resource (the time you spend surfing, using IM or personal email) AS WELL AS IT resources (the company owned computer and associated bandwidth). The company has a right to monitor for and guard against theft, plain and simple.

Now turning our attention to a child (as referenced above) who owns his own computer yet (apparently) lives at home. The first thing I would point out is that the parents can (and usually will) be held legally liable for the actions of their child which gives them an inherent RIGHT to know what said child is "up to". Not to mention that the parents are probably paying for the internet access, as well as supplying the electricity that runs the computer and the roof that protects it from the elements. In short, you only get that guarantee of privacy when you are TOTALLY SELF SUPPORTIVE and out on your own.

I don't know the specifics of the case, but I have no doubt that if the parents of the Columbine shooters had been paying closer attention to their childrens actions (be them online or not) that those deaths might have been prevented. Yeah...you read it right...a keylogger just MIGHT have saved lives in that case.
November 10th, 2003, 11:35 PM
spools.exe

Okay, i can understand in a corporate stiuation but when its a personal computer, thats a different story. I feel that if its your computer and you paid for it then there is no reason for aonther person to place htat program on it.
November 10th, 2003, 11:40 PM
allenb1963

I see your point...but if you are using it to plan an illegal activity that your parents can be held liable for in a court of law then THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW. Subsequently, given that they SUPPORT you and are RESPONSIBLE for your actions, they have the right to monitor your actions unless you enjoy "emancipated minor" status that is recognized by a court of law...in which case you probably aren't living with them and the monitoring ceases to be an issue.
November 10th, 2003, 11:41 PM
spools.exe

allenb1963 - Thanks for point that out, i never thought of it that way.

/|Glacier|\ - as for child predator, you shouldn't need a key logger. If you keeptrack of your kids and what they do online there should be no need for it. Anyways you should make it so that a child wouldn't even be able to talk to a "predator" in the first place. A program such as Net-Nanny would do the trick.
November 11th, 2003, 01:20 AM
nihil

What does the expression "parenting" mean?................putting spyware on your childrens' computers?..................if they commit a crime you are too late anyway?

Might I suggest that the computer is in your living area, and turn the bloody TV off whilst the children are using it?.............If you had been paying attention to the TV, you wouldn't have any children, would you?

Trust is two way..........I guess one way has already been compromised here?

Sounds more like smartass daddy to me.............only not as smart as he would like to think?

Hey, I believe in responsibility and in respect, but respect is a mutual thing born out of trust?

There is something "not quite right" here?.............If my child needed a computer, I would get him/her one...........if I could not afford it................how could they?............weird?

Maybe mummy might be using the computer to contact her lovers?

I love a good conspiracy :)

Cheers
November 11th, 2003, 02:43 AM
allenb1963

nihil....got any kids of your own/?
November 11th, 2003, 02:45 AM
SevenBleach

parent's house, parent's rules. that's just the way **** works, like allen says when you are LEGELLY responsible for yourself, then complain. Not that I wouldn't be upset about it... but that's growin' up.
November 11th, 2003, 03:15 AM
Starfuckers|Inc

I'm not going to go too far into it, as both sides have valid points, but parents shouldn't have to install keyloggers, raise your kid for the love of christ --- if the kid gets a piece of regular postal mail addressed to him, guess what...the parent isn't legally allowed to open it. All of a sudden you can read your kid's email though? Chat sessions? I don't think so...if you're down to having to do that...you have failed somewhere along the lines as a parent. Educate your child, trust your child, and there will be no need to spy on your child.
November 11th, 2003, 03:42 AM
lick4th

I agree with star. I think that if parents do that, it makes the kids miss out on the chance to grow up on their own and learn the right things from wrong experiences. if parents guard there kids while they live with them, then what are they supposed to do when they get out on their own and have to make their own decisions without any experience of that in the past...?
November 11th, 2003, 03:42 AM
/|Glacier|\

Quote:

Originally posted here by SevenBleach
parent's house, parent's rules. that's just the way **** works, like allen says when you are LEGELLY responsible for yourself, then complain. Not that I wouldn't be upset about it... but that's growin' up.

Parents should have the right to be network admins. Its their house and their connection. I mean look what the *** happend to T33 Kidd where would his fat ass be right now if his parents caught what he was talking about in his early stages of kiddieness. His fat ass would probably be at Mcdonalds or wendys getting his grubb on.
November 11th, 2003, 05:34 AM
allenb1963

OK...I can speak as a parent since I've been one for 20 years. I DON'T have a keylogger on my computer...I don't feel the need for one. But if I ever feel the need, I'll not hesitate to install one.

I've tried to raise my kids right. I have a good relationship with all 3 of my sons....I pay attention to what they do, who they hang out with and where they want to go with their lives. My 20 yr. old is in college and is learning to take care of himself. He knows his limits and what the consequences are if he screws up. I DROVE THAT LESSON HOME after he wasted the first semester of his freshman year drinking 24/7 and not going to class. He now keeps at least a 3.0 and has sworn off the booze. I believe him when he tells me this because he has not given me a reason not to and his grades substantiate his statement.

My 14 yr. old is a bit different....I have to run thru the temp IE files regularly to make sure he's not pr0n surfing. Last time I caught him (not the first instance) he lost computer priviliges for a month. Yeah, I know about net nanny but I choose to catch him the old fashoined way and give him a chance to prove himself to me. HOWEVER....if later on I suspect he has gotten involved with drugs or any other illegal activity (and VIOLATED MY TRUST) then I may start checking emails, IMs and the like...as a parent I have that right if he shows that I cannot trust him.

My 10 yr. old I don't worry about so much. He is active in scouting and thus far has proven to have a strong sense of right and wrong. He is the type of kid that if he cannot think of something good to say about someone, he won't say anything about them at all (with the exception of his teachers...he can be quite critical of them at times). If he sees you doing something wrong, he won't hesitate to let you know about it. I can only pray that he stays this way.

Star*****ers|Inc was right for the most part when he said

Quote:

Educate your child, trust your child, and there will be no need to spy on your child.

But when your child violates that trust all bets are off and everything is fair game for a parent. Rebellion is a natural part of growing up...but when it takes a form that will harm my child I'm gonna do whatever it takes to protect my child. DEAL WITH IT!!
November 11th, 2003, 12:13 PM
nihil

Hi allenb1963, Granddaddy is my next objective :)

You raise some good points, and I now realise that I am actually too old to have experienced these problems first hand. :eek:

I am afraid that I go back to the days of 486s and 14.4Kbps dial-up modems. Connection was expensive too, as you had to pay by the minute. The net was a whole lot safer then, I guess?

My main objection to keyloggers is that they are reactive rather than proactive. I don't want to know that my child has been doing things that would get me into court.............I don't want my child doing them in the first place? [In England you are not legally responsible anyway]

OK, I have used them in the workplace when a "problem situation" has arisen, as our labour laws are quite different, and you really have to have concrete evidence. I guess that is why I associate them with "gathering the final evidence" and do not think them suitable for a domestic situation.

My instincts still tell me that there is more to the original story in this thread than meets the eye..............guess that's me being paranoid again?

Cheers
November 11th, 2003, 01:20 PM
OverdueSpy

I agree that good parenting is the initial investment in discouraging a child from commiting illegal or immoral acts via the Internet. And that trust is essential in any parent child relationship. However, a parent monitoring their child's Internet activities should be a standard precaution for every parent. This is no different than calling the parents of a child's friend, when they are spending the night, to make sure your child is where they are supposed to be. Or why parents make curfews for their children, in an effort to protect the child and ruduce the opportunity for the child to conduct mischief. Perhaps the parent is concerned about sexual predators, illegal hacking, afraid of being sued by the RIAA, or the child could even have emotional issues tending towards suicide. Either way the parent has a responsibility to protect their children and to teach their children their interpretation of right and wrong.
November 11th, 2003, 05:37 PM
spools.exe

Well as most of you know i am considerad a child being an age of 16. I feel that if i boght the oc with my own money i have the right to know whats on it, not my parents.
November 11th, 2003, 08:03 PM
OverdueSpy

In many cities and states, parents are subject to be held liable for their child's behaviour unless they can prove that they exercised reasonable supervision over the child or made reasonable efforts to discourage or prevent the child from destroying, damaging or stealing property.

Historically, parents were not civilly liable to victims for the intentional or negligent acts of their children unless the child was an employee or acted under the direction of the parents or there was some actual negligence on the parents' part, as where an automobile or other dangerous object was entrusted to an unlicensed or underage child and an accident resulted. Despite the inherent limitations in these common law rules, there is a growing body of court decisions that follow the American Law Institute's Restatement of Torts, Second's more liberal rule that a parent is obligated to exercises reasonable care to control his or her child if the parent has the ability to do so and knows of the necessity and opportunity to exercise that control.
November 11th, 2003, 08:56 PM
mdmetzler

There are 3 computers in my house, and I have Spector installed on only one of them- my computer- so that I can see what other people do with my computer while I am away. And it has been informative- It has shown me that several of the people around me cannot keep their word, as well as that the neighbor kid has used my computer to surf porn sites while I was out of town. Monitoring programs are like hidden cameras, hidden microphones, 1-way mirrors, and the same sort of ethics apply to them.
November 11th, 2003, 10:14 PM
michael737n

Quote:

Originally posted here by allenb1963

Now turning our attention to a child (as referenced above) who owns his own computer yet (apparently) lives at home. The first thing I would point out is that the parents can (and usually will) be held legally liable for the actions of their child which gives them an inherent RIGHT to know what said child is "up to". Not to mention that the parents are probably paying for the internet access, as well as supplying the electricity that runs the computer and the roof that protects it from the elements. In short, you only get that guarantee of privacy when you are TOTALLY SELF SUPPORTIVE and out on your own.

If said child buys omputer and is regestered to them it is the child computer legally hence giving the parent no unauthorized access to the computer.

Quote:

Originally posted here by spools.exe
Well as most of you know i am considerad a child being an age of 16. I feel that if i boght the oc with my own money i have the right to know whats on it, not my parents.

im 14 and i agree whole heartedly

Quote:

[i] My 10 yr. old I don't worry about so much. He is active in scouting.[/B]

scouts rock
November 12th, 2003, 03:44 AM
allenb1963

Quote:

If said child buys omputer and is regestered to them it is the child computer legally hence giving the parent no unauthorized access to the computer.

Hmmm....one of my kids hands me that line I'm cutting off access to the electricity....problem solved.

;)
November 12th, 2003, 01:06 PM
OverdueSpy

Quote:

Originally posted here by michael737n

If said child buys omputer and is regestered to them it is the child computer legally hence giving the parent no unauthorized access to the computer.

im 14 and i agree whole heartedly

scouts rock

You hit the nail on the head! You are 14, therefore you are a minor. Unless you are being abused, your so called "rights" stop at the front door of your parents house.

But the good news is that, if you feel strongly about your parents monitoring your activities, you can reasess you situation when you turn 18. And oh, did I mention you will need to get your own place to live, buy a car (to include the insurance and maintenance), buy your own food, pay for your utility usage, and pay taxes to support the military that exists so you can surf on your computer anonymously (sort of).

Also as a minor you do not legally "own" anything your parents do not consent to you possessing.

Since you are 14 I guess you have the right to whine. However, I advise you to think about how your parents are providing for you before you complain about being supervised. Also I would love to hear your opinion on this issue in about 15 - 20 years. Hee Hee.