Guns, Lots of Guns

(matrix has nothing to do with this thread)


Im wondering what peoples view on guns/gun control is. This is a huge and heated topic in the US. But in addition to hearing comments from those in the US I would like to hear from those in other parts of the world. How do guns effect your society? What forms of control do you believe in? Do you think some guns should be banned? Do you think some gun laws are bad? If you saw bowling for columbine, what do you think about Moore's opinion?

And please....lets stay civil , ive seen some pretty religious people when it comes to this issue.

Well, I'm in Canada and we also have had a big thing about gun controls and gun registration and ****. I don't think they should be banned completely, some ppl like to hunt, collect, etc. However, some weapons I believe should be banned. Things like uzi's, etc. Fully automatic weapons really aren't needed unless you are on a tactical responce team for the local police service, etc etc IMHO.

Lately in Calgary where I live, in the past year there have been a large increase in shootings (gang related), some pretty close to where I live. Now I'm sure that many guns get out there via black market, smuggling, etc. Its not every vehicle is stopped and searched entering the city, so its possible to drive the weapons in. However, I still believe restrictions should be placed on their purchase, use, storage, etc.

I don't see why people get so upset when gun control laws and things are suggested. But I believe many of them just fail to see the other side. How the hell does the government know which citizens are gonna go bizerk some day and kill someone. How does the government know who is honest and who isn't? They don't. Sure there are criminal records etc, but they are just doing this in the best interests of society the way I see it. Its like at work (I work retail). We check signatures of credit cards, and I nearly got assaulted and had to call the police on an individual because I asked for ID. He instantly took it personally, thinking 'why, I'm an honest person, why do I have to produce ID etc' How do I know they are honest? It seems to be similar to these gun control laws. People are upset because they are honest and now have to go through a bunch more hassles. But these rules are set in place to help filter out some people that really shouldn't be in possesion of guns.

Nothing is fool proof, but doing something is better than doing nothing. Introducing gun control laws won't keep people from killing eachother, but then again, introducing speed limits doesn't keep everyone from speeding does it?

These are my views, and even though I'm only 17, I have had a strong support for gun control legislation after I lost both my parents due to guns.

Peace

Dave

Give everyone a gun, and ban motor vehicles


You will save a lot more lives?..................they are only inanimate objects after all?

Just my £0.02

lol nihil

I am a Hunter, and am also a member of the NRA. So of course as you might guess, I say let us keep are guns. Afterall its in the constitution that we should have a right to keep and bare arms.

1 comment .......Remeber the movie RED DAWN

1 comment, i've enough of guns in war. Dont like 'em. but i got used to 'em so aint scared of 'em neither.

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Originally posted here by /|Glacier|\
1 comment .......Remeber the movie RED DAWN

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They stole ak's and RPG's from the russians..how dose this have anythign to do with gun control?

Personaly I would like to see some of the loopholes changed the last few gun shows I have been to I have seen assult rifles for "display" purposes missing fireing pins, and the same table selling the fireing pins as "display" items. Its getting better though back in the eighties I would see granade launchers and they never asked for a FOID card

This kid(Bballad)is truly a dumbass.Bballad what fukin planet did you arrive from man. If it wasnt for the gun dealer in the movie they wouldnt have been armed now would they. *hint*hint* right to bear arms.

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I don't see why people get so upset when gun control laws and things are suggested. But I believe many of them just fail to see the other side. How the hell does the government know which citizens are gonna go bizerk some day and kill someone. How does the government know who is honest and who isn't?

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A fair question, but have you ever considered "the other side"

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In the first months of his chancellorship, Hitler began a concerted policy of "synchronization," forcing organizations, political parties, and state governments into line with Nazi goals and placing them under Nazi leadership. Culture, the economy, education, and law came under greater Nazi control. Trade unions were abolished and workers, employees, and employers were forced into Nazi organizations. By mid-July 1933, the Nazi party was the only political party permitted in Germany.

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http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/nrule.htm

It wasn't some berserk individual, or a criminal, or a gang that did this. It was a lawfully
elected government. The only thing that could have stopped the holocaust
is if those six million jews had been armed.
:cool:

My idea of gun control is to use both hands. When you outlaw guns only the criminals have them. Why shouldnt i be able to defend my house and family in a town where it takes an average of 11 minutes from the time a 911 call is placed to the time nthe first officer arives. 11minutes is a long time for somebody to be able to hurt my family and take my stuff. Now with my good ol' mossberg 500 12 gauge thats not as likely to happen. Now i know somebody out there is thinking what if one of the kids is up out of bed and i only think they are an intruder. Well its kinda hard to confuse a 6 year old (my oldest) with an intruder. Oh yea and also the guns are stored in a place where the kids do not have acsess to them. Its this magical little think called a lock and a key that i am the only one that has said key.

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Originally posted here by rcgreen


A fair question, but have you ever considered "the other side"



http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/nrule.htm

It wasn't some berserk individual, or a criminal, or a gang that did this. It was a lawfully
elected government. The only thing that could have stopped the holocaust
is if those six million jews had been armed.
:cool:

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That dosn't hold too much water, a number of dictators allowed their populace to be armed (notably Husain in Iraq)

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Originally posted here by ZomBieMann77
My idea of gun control is to use both hands. When you outlaw guns only the criminals have them. Why shouldnt i be able to defend my house and family in a town where it takes an average of 11 minutes from the time a 911 call is placed to the time nthe first officer arives. 11minutes is a long time for somebody to be able to hurt my family and take my stuff. Now with my good ol' mossberg 500 12 gauge thats not as likely to happen. Now i know somebody out there is thinking what if one of the kids is up out of bed and i only think they are an intruder. Well its kinda hard to confuse a 6 year old (my oldest) with an intruder. Oh yea and also the guns are stored in a place where the kids do not have acsess to them. Its this magical little think called a lock and a key that i am the only one that has said key.

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You have pointed out exactly why we need gun control and licensing, you are doing it right, and should have no problems getting a gun, its the nutjobs that refuse to lock up their guns and keep them in easy reach of kids that I worry about. You handle your guns safly a lot of people don't

In a Bballad World

A short story by DR MD. Glacier(edited by ****'s for Political Correctness )


Is gun control really about guns? Sounds like an odd question on the surface, but it’s really right on target. In fact, the answer is: No, gun control is not really about guns. It’s about failed social programs, the destruction of the ***** family in America, and the rotten politicians who are responsible.

The “welfare handouts in exchange for votes” schemes began in the 1930s with Roosevelt’s New Deal, and they coincided with the beginning of the dissolution of the American **** family. Although discriminated against back then,***** had about the same percentage of intact family units as white families, and as a race***** crime was about the same as white crime. Today, thanks to decades of accelerating “welfare for votes” social engineering, the ***** family unit in the ghetto is history (welfare checks have replaced fathers) and the ***** crime rate is manyfold that of whites.

The welfare checks not only destroyed the ***** head of household in the ghetto, but also the ***** family’s self respect and its ability to be self-reliant. As it does with most poor, dependent, fractured families, it lead to an increase in crime. But rather than admit their horrible mistakes in making people dependent on handouts rather than on themselves, the politicians have claimed that guns are responsible for the high crime rate in America.

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Not exactly the society I would prefer to live in. As one of my old neighbors used to say...

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They can have my gun when they pry my cold dead fingers off the barrel.

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bare hand fighting is more civilian
isn't it?

Hi!

In answer to:

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But in addition to hearing comments from those in the US I would like to hear from those in other parts of the world.

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In England (UK) our Gun Laws (which I think started around 1936) have traditionally been aimed at Public Safety. Although there are some clauses in the legislation relating to "prohibited weapons" (machine guns etc.) it is a general principle that criminal law will deal with criminals, and gun control is not a part of criminal law.

We have 62million people living in an area a half the size of the State of Oregon, and a 7.62mm NATO (.308Winchester) round is lethal at 3,000 yards..........Hence it is a lot easier to obtain a shotgun than a high velocity rifle.

The basic rules are that you must have a good reason to have one, be of sound mental health, have somewhere safe to keep it, and somewhere safe to use it. People with criminal records need not apply (not that they would :) )

Although not many people are aware of it, if you can get a Home Office prohibited weapons exemption certificate, you can have just about anything you like, including machine guns and rocket launchers............arms dealers have these, as the UK still has quite an active armaments industry.

Another UK opinion. We have generally had a very different perspective from the US on guns, and in general, we do not have them around. The view is much more that unless you have a good reason for having a gun, you really shouldn't.

In terms of the US, I think they should have more control over who has a gun, or rather, they should have had more control. I take the points that if you were to outlaw guns now, it would simply remove them from the legitimate posessors, not the illigitimate ones. How you move on from where you now are, I am unsure.

It has always struck me that the US approach to guns and the UK approach to cars bear striking similarities. And they are both wrong, and need changing.

IMVHO.

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Originally posted here by /|Glacier|\
In a Bballad World

A short story by DR MD. Glacier(edited by ****'s for Political Correctness )


Is gun control really about guns? Sounds like an odd question on the surface, but it’s really right on target. In fact, the answer is: No, gun control is not really about guns. It’s about failed social programs, the destruction of the ***** family in America, and the rotten politicians who are responsible.

The “welfare handouts in exchange for votes” schemes began in the 1930s with Roosevelt’s New Deal, and they coincided with the beginning of the dissolution of the American **** family. Although discriminated against back then,***** had about the same percentage of intact family units as white families, and as a race***** crime was about the same as white crime. Today, thanks to decades of accelerating “welfare for votes” social engineering, the ***** family unit in the ghetto is history (welfare checks have replaced fathers) and the ***** crime rate is manyfold that of whites.

The welfare checks not only destroyed the ***** head of household in the ghetto, but also the ***** family’s self respect and its ability to be self-reliant. As it does with most poor, dependent, fractured families, it lead to an increase in crime. But rather than admit their horrible mistakes in making people dependent on handouts rather than on themselves, the politicians have claimed that guns are responsible for the high crime rate in America.

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I see its gun control and welfare taht is keeping the black man down. that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Perhaps its the faild loony left policy of low income houseing (inforced gehtos) and a culture of failure that is to blame, add that to the rights constant push for a larg source of cheap labor and you have your culprit...gun control has very litel to do with any of that.

I understand that in your world any nut job on the street could walk into a store and walk out with a gun, but in the real world where we have sociopaths and psycos (not to mention he stupid) this cannot be done.

Gun control hell.... I say Birth Control should be in effect. :D

Gun control activists are like the left sided abortion activists. Partial Birth abortions aren't really necessary, just like an assault combat rifle isn't really necessary in a citizen's hands. But neither side will give an inch because, when a little is given - that gives ammunition (pun intended) to the activist to pursue and shoot away at their ultimate goal. Total bans and criminality of each issue. Actually going to jail for possessing a gun or getting an abortion is absurd. I hope future generations can protect those rights.

When society caves to the aggression of government and extremists, the will of the people will fail.

Its frighting road closed but I think you and I basicly agree on most stuff we just come at it from difrent angles

ZombieMann,

I'm not disagreeing about your home defense and you're right to home defense however if your arms are under lock and key just how quickly can you defend your family after being rousted from sleep in the dark?

I teach Hunter Education and firearms safety. I am a firm believer in the right to bear arms although I am willing to concede that some people need to have that right rescinded. I also believe there is no civilian need for some types of firearms.

My personal favorite is my PSE Compound Bow, 28'' drawlength, 65 lb pull with a 65% letoff, I shoot 6'' groups at 30yds from an elevated platform.

Just as the other pro gun people have said, if you take the right away from the law abiding citizens then just the crooks will have them. That's pretty scary.

fourdc: a bow hunter, that I can respect, I do some black powder hunting myself. Both take much more skill then some semiauto with hundreds of rounds.

I dont think most people in favor of gun control are for the banning of all guns, just sane regulation. Hell I would be very pissed if they tried to take away my buddies .50cal or flame thrower (yes you can have these legaly)

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Bballad
I see its gun control and welfare taht is keeping the black man down. that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Perhaps its the faild loony left policy of low income houseing (inforced gehtos) and a culture of failure that is to blame, add that to the rights constant push for a larg source of cheap labor and you have your culprit...gun control has very litel to do with any of that.

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Dont be racist here Bballad................and who are you voting for again or are you still embarrassed to say :lol:

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dont think most people in favor of gun control are for the banning of all guns, just sane regulation

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I could say the same about censorship, or the right to vote, etc etc.
Once the anti-gun people have prevailed, they will give the orders
and you and I will shut up and obey.

Gun rights are part of a seamless garment of human rights. ALL of your
rights are under attack from some faction or another. Each attack, taken alone,
postures itself as a "reasonable" regulation for the "public safety"

That offensive T-shirt you want to wear, sorry, it's a threat to the person
who wants to beat you up. Wanna go skateboarding? Sorry, some old lady
is offended. That wierd music coming from your car, obviously a sign of antisocial
tendencies. Peacefully proseletize for your religion? Be reasonable, someone might
feel that you are "pushing something on them".

This generation will live to regret the headlong rush to disarm the
people, thus concentrating all force in the hands of the government.
Governments are no more virtuous than the general population.
Why should they be entitled to our unqualified faith and trust?
:cool:

In answer to the question about how quickly i can have my shotgun locked and loaded .... pretty damned quick. Alot faster than the 11 minute response time for the cops to get here. The bottom line is that in the U.S. our constitution grants us the right to keep and bear arms. If you think about it at the time the constitution was written muskets were assault rifles. Why shouldnt i be allowed to have an Ar 15 as long as im responsible with it and do everything in my power to insure that no evil comes from it?

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Originally posted here by ZomBieMann77
In answer to the question about how quickly i can have my shotgun locked and loaded .... pretty damned quick. Alot faster than the 11 minute response time for the cops to get here. The bottom line is that in the U.S. our constitution grants us the right to keep and bear arms. If you think about it at the time the constitution was written muskets were assault rifles. Why shouldnt i be allowed to have an Ar 15 as long as im responsible with it and do everything in my power to insure that no evil comes from it?

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No one is saying that you can't hell if you realy want one you can have a BAR or a AK with proper licensing, see its the regulations and licensing that verifies that you act responasable with the gun.

bballad hits a good point. There are countless gun laws and regulations already on the books. If the federal, state, county, city governments actually enforced the laws people would shut up. Then those who still speak out against will have shown their true colors.

I live in one of the most reverended and coveted pro gun counties in the united states. It's great and we citizens work hard to protect that here. Stuff you can buy here is illegal in 11 states. Which is odd because just by crossing a border you could go to jail. Crazy.

RoadClosed: the problem is that there is no coherency through out the law. what is legal in one area isn't in another. There at least needs t be a universal licensing and ID /registration system.

I have guns, always have, always will. There should be strict measures for people to obtain them though. Not every nut on the street should have one. I also agree that taking the guns away from the public is a bad idea. Our founding fathers new this, that's why they allowed us to have them. We sure as hell need to keep guns out of drug-dealers and kids hands though, that's for sure.

I agree with whoever said: "you can take this gun, yeah, from my cold dead hand". I believe it was the NRA chair. Forgot his name for the moment.

`pw

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Originally posted here by paulie walnuts
I agree with whoever said: "you can take this gun, yeah, from my cold dead hand". I believe it was the NRA chair. Forgot his name for the moment.

`pw

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"you can have this gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"
Charlton Heston

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Cheers:

Thankyou! :D

Heh.....

I live in a state with the least gun laws on the books. I believe we have 1 state law about guns, it is illegal to use a gun in the performance of a crime. We of course have all of the federal laws. Handgun Control Inc gave us a grade of D+ because of our lax laws.

Of course we have the lowest violent crime rate in the United States. (Lowest population as well) We have our accidents as well as domestic violence.

More kids die in swimming pools than gun accidents maybe they should outlaw personal swimming pools. Ted Kennedy's vehicle has killed more people than my firearms have.

I think you have a good point there.

`pw

good god now I agree with a statement that paulie walnuts said, first road closed then paulie this must be some signe of the apocolipse.

Well how about that, welcome to the "family". Just kidding.

You have come a long way bballad. ;)

Now I want you to repeat after me, ready:

I- will- vote- for- G.W.B- in- the- upcoming- elections-pinky- swear!

Come on, I'm waiting....... :D

Nope I haven't vcome a long way...allways been here, and I curently see GWB as the biggest threat to my rights out of all the choices. If by some strange fluke al sharpton gets the democratic nomination (or mosely braun) I will have to abstane form this election like i did in the last on, if not then I vote for the dem this time round.

At one point long ago I considered myself a republican, but I noticed that there actions and words never fit with the ideals that they claimed to represent, untill the religious right loses power in that party hey will not have my support.

I have obviously made the mistake of putting too much faith in you bballad. :rolleyes:

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I curently see GWB as the biggest threat to my rights out of all the choices.

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We all know that this is to protect you, its only when the power falls into the wrong hands that we should be concerned. GWB has not, and would never put your life in danger. He is a good man, contrary to the rhetoric (mud-slinging) of the Democratic Party. The dems are playing politics with everything from national security to judges. When will they ever learn!

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what is legal in one area isn't in another

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True but the soverignty of the states are critical to a lasting union. What works in Delaware or Washington won't work in Texas or Nevada.

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Originally posted here by RoadClosed


True but the soverignty of the states are critical to a lasting union. What works in Delaware or Washington won't work in Texas or Nevada.

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Agreed on that, but Ifeel that there are certin areas that have so much room for abuse that they need to be dealt with on a national level. Guns should be regestered nationaly, dirver licenses should be a national thing (we had a number of cases in Il where comercial rivers where going down to florida to get new licensies after their Il one was suspended), The sex offender registries should be national. States have shown that they will let petty bickering get in the way of information shareing in cases where they need t oplay nice together

Don't you get shivers when you think that everyone has to register to one national database to get an id? Imagine the government running a program of that magnitude.

The requirements to get an ID were extremely lax because it was generally thought that it was no big deal, there was not general reason to think that Mr. Smith was someone else and not Mr. Smith. That's changed a bit now.

I think the absolute opposite of security will happen. With a state regulated ID system the focus is narrowed to specific population groups all centered on commonality based on geolocation. To expand that group of control from 10s of millions to 293 million does not seem ideal. Abuses in the system are just as likely if not more likely than a few years ago because of the broad spectrum. Only now someone in IL would have direct access to accounts in Florida via the same system. Sure there would be national checks and balances. No one has ever faked a passport, or fooled the IRS. Passports are always delivered in a timely manner and you never have to jump through red tape to get one. Oh and the IRS never makes mistakes or bullies citizens with national power.

National ID = National Nightmare and you think the patriot act cuts into our freedom? The patriot act has already locked down ID requirements. If someone in Florida is still getting IDs then it's an underground job anyway and no national system is going to protect against fraud with those that have the local power to deliver the paper and make an ID.

I'll give you an example in my state. You basically have to prove you live here and that you are Mr. Smith. That comes in several forms but I won't go into detail. Then you fill out an application. The application is processed and a back ground check is done. They then MAIL the ID to you. A new ID takes a week if you are lucky; several federal databases are checked for any signs you may have been misbehaving: City, Country, State, and Federal. In fact you can't even get pulled over for not using a turn signal without and automated high speed federal level check while the cop is setting in his car before he even gets his ass out of the seat.

So completely dismantling the state level system and creating a behemoth of an agency to oversee and issue national level ID cards is a waste and in my opinion accomplishes nothing except make it easier for the government to control and track citizen movement around the country. How is that not giving up freedom in order to become safer at home? How is that not falling directly into the hands of Bush and his plan to abolish our constitution?

I am not talkingabout a national ID (we allready have that, social security) but a national registration of licensies that could be abused, so that we know if someone sbuses a gun or car ect. That way someone cannot jump form state to state picking up licensies to circumvent suspensions.