Printable View
I caught wind of a situation in which a man was arrested over something he was doing on his computer because of an employee at the ISP he was using was watching him.
1) Isn't that illegal?
2) How much do ISP's really watch?
3) Do ISP's scan packets for keywords? I imagine it's more than possible.
I just don't see how it could be legal to turn someone in with information you found while invading their privacy... but at the same time it's THEIR network... maybe it's all in the fine print.....
ISP's can do whatever they want almost, as long as they mention it in the "fine print".
Being as I am a Network Operator (NOC) at the worlds largest dedicated Webhosting Company and ISP, I will enlighten you.
1) The way he was "Watching Him" was most likely a Packet Capture. All it takes is running ettercap on the router in front of the TNT Access Servers, and you can capture all incoming and outgoing packets. You see, these data packets are physicly going through our network at our DataCenter Colo facility, therefore you play by our rules. There is no Privacy cause your on our Network. Also, read the AUP or TOS you may find it very informative on such matters.
3) We are constantly scanning trough our Core Captures to find the most obvious malicious packets. This is automated and is called an IDS.(Intrusion Detection System) It ususally blocks DOS attacks, port scans, ect... among other tools that I will not mention we are watching 100% of the time. 24/7 365 days a year. (No Holidays Off)
Wow! That's incredible. Scary. Do ISP's search packets for keywords... so that they might catch pedofiles or terrorists?
blocking port scans? how lame
Similiar thing that I could think of that we do with our own networks, much like Dr Toker was saying is watching packet data go through. Much like when we had an outbreak of blaster in our own network (what a mess), we used Etherpeek to monitor data coming through one of our main switches. Just as simple as plugging in a laptop to the switch, and just watching the data pass through, we were able to track which were the main spreaders, and who needed to be patched. Granted, this is on a smaller scale say about 4,000 workstations and servers with many different network interfaces...I'd say you could apply it on a larger scale.
By the way, Etherpeek...neat little program. Check it out if you have some time to burn. (and money)
IDS does NOT block anything. It's passive and only watches. If you have something that is actively blocking stuff then it's more accurately called an IPS or Intrusion Prevention System...
And why are you blocking port scans in the first place? If I remember correctly port scans have been found to be completely legal.
Oh, and if my company was using your company as a dedicated hosting facility and then found out that you were looking at every packet we send out then you can bet that we would drop you flat on your ass with no hesitiation. There are PLENTY of secure data hosting facilities out there that will be more than happy to not view everything we send out. As it is all of our sensitive data is encrypted for communication, but our SLA's still won't let a hosting facility view our packets.
I'm not really sure I would view an ISP that records all packets inbound/outbound as neccessarily wrong. If ISP's are observing sensative packets (personal information), I can't imagine any reputable ISP would release any such information to the public. (Do I know for sure? no. Anything is possible these days). Also, should someone with mailcious intentions attempt to crack my system, I'd prefer my ISP has an account of all the transactions that transpired so they could better investigate the situation should I call it to their attention.
I guess it doesn't bother me that my ISP may record any/all of my inbound/outbound traffic. They are providing me with a service and in turn, I don't mind sacraficing some privacy for protection.
Just my input on the subject.
Is is possible ISP was asked to monitor that individual as part of an ongoing criminal investigation by the police ? In Canada/US a joint operation called 'Operation Snowball'
was carried out looking for child porno rings; and they monitored some individuals to 'catch them in the act' (so to speak)
Now days to expect privacy anywhere is like a pipe dream. Most large stores, and even resturants use audio monitoring and sometime even vidio as precautions against everything.
To expect privacy from your ISP (unless you are paying for privacy & secured service) is unreal.
I would only be upset, if they released any informationn they captured.
Quote:
Originally posted here by Lv4
Oh, and if my company was using your company as a dedicated hosting facility and then found out that you were looking at every packet we send out then you can bet that we would drop you flat on your ass with no hesitiation. .
I bet we are your hosting providor. We cover over 2% of the internet, with over 65,000 dedicated webservers we make a nice coverage. Seems like you have some animosity towards me, not to mention a bad additude. Did I somhow anger you? Did you really think that there was such thing as privacy on the net?
Damn, guess you took the "Blue Pill"...
It would be nice to believe in privacy on the net but sadly there is just too small a number of isps or anything else for that matter where you have true privacy. It just doesnt happen anymore which is sad enough to say at the least.
PeacE
-BoB
Speaking as someone that runs an ISP that makes no effort to monitor traffic type, I hate to tell everyone that it does not take an effort.
Running a linux server with proxy is enough. I mean all I have to do is see what IP a client is using and do a tail -f on the access log and voila I see exactly what you are doing online via my proxy.
This, I am told by my lawyers, is completely legal and I do not need a contract with fine print to be able to use it. Although my clients will be pleased to know that I do not the time for it ;)
Also it is legal for an ISP to read all e-mails while they are stored on the server although we may not intercept and prevent delivery unless they contain a virus.
just a little FYI
Personally it does not upset me to know this. All sensitive data is encrypted (or should be,) and any ISP really has to take these steps in the computer world today.
Legally and ethically I believe it is a smart move on their part - it will help protect them in lawsuits.
.: Aftiel
Dr. Toker. No I didn't take anything you said personally, but it certainly looks like you sure did. Defensive a bit are we? I didn't agree with your companies stance, much less the roaming eye of big brother within those organizations. Now I never said I thought there was such a thing as privacy on the internet, but I DO expect a certain level of privacy from my own hosting facility.
I can "bet" you that you are not our hoster of any sorts. Sure, some of our data may pass through your network, but you are not my hosting facility, of this I can be sure of because I know what our SLA's are. FWIW we deal with the largest secure hosting facility out there, and I'm 100% sure that is NOT your organization.
Oh GPF, while it is legal for anyone to read emails in transit right now, it's only a matter of time before the USPS finishes up with their EPM. While Electronic Post Mark is already out and being used by some secure email providers, it is not a fully accepted form of transmission (just because it IS rather clunky). If, and when, EPM becomes the norm then email will be covered (at least within the US) by federal laws just like regular snailmail is.