Software to limit tracking cell phone users

I dunno.. I suspect that this won't really be used and that someone can still find you or find ways to bypass the software.

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Now that wireless companies can track a mobile phone's location, customers will want to control exactly who knows where they are and when.

Bell Labs says it has developed a network software engine that can let cell users be as picky as they choose about disclosing their whereabouts, a step that may help wireless companies introduce "location-based services" in a way customers will find handy rather than intrusive.

In a presentation this week at an industry conference, researchers for the Bell Labs division of Lucent Technologies Inc. plan to describe how their technology copes with the conflicting demands of speed, privacy and personalization on a live telephone network -- enabling users to specify what location information is shared, when, with whom, how and under what circumstances.

While one U.S. mobile phone operator, AT&T Wireless, already offers a "Find Friends" feature that's somewhat analogous to a buddy list in instant messaging, location-based services have mostly remained an unfulfilled promise.

More recently, under a federal mandate requiring that cell carriers be able to pinpoint the whereabouts of any customer who calls 911 during an emergency, expensive network upgrades have made wireless companies more anxious to deploy services which can exploit these new capabilities for a profit.

Examples of such services would typically include the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants. Other applications might include the ability to locate co-workers and customers.

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Read the full article at CNN

That's kind of scary.

"Examples of such services would typically include the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants. Other applications might include the ability to locate co-workers and customers."

The first spam i get from a business , will result in a loud public berating of their management at their busiest time and then the same for my provider of service.(Or possibly a rock with an explanatory note attached through their front window if i am in an especially rebelious mood) I use a cell primarily for its lack of telemarking scum.

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cell carriers be able to pinpoint the whereabouts of any customer who calls 911 during an emergency

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isnt this something nice....or think about in an emergency...they could see exactly where the person is to rescue them...or how about a hostile situation where somone would call and they would know their location...i think these are some advantages but obviously im not saying that there are no disadvantages :D
peace

Great more spam too worry about.
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Examples of such services would typically include the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants.
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Same here lumpy. One can take so much spam until it gets very annoying. Just wondering if they do that. Would you get charged $$ for looking at it ?

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Originally posted here by Agent_Steal
Great more spam too worry about. Just wondering if they do that. Would you get charged $$ for looking at it ?

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Of course you would. You don't expect the spammer to pay for it do you? After all, it is a service to you that he is spamming you. You might not know you are hungry and need to eat....or something.
(Too bad they wouldn't let us answer such with a shatchel charge, automatic 5 min timer, and a screamer to let people know tp vacate the area.)

Some time back I spoke to Vodafone who were discsuuig their location based services they could offer. They were boasting that they could text someone as they entered a supermarket with the latest special ofers.

They were very reluctant, however, to text a customer of mine when they walked into one of our competitors with a message pointing out those items where we beat the competitor on price!

On a serious note, though, they would only text those people wh had signed up for these services!

Steve

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Originally posted here by moxnix
Of course you would. You don't expect the spammer to pay for it do you? After all, it is a service to you that he is spamming you. You might not know you are hungry and need to eat....or something.
(Too bad they wouldn't let us answer such with a shatchel charge, automatic 5 min timer, and a screamer to let people know tp vacate the area.)

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I think you guys are missing the point. For the AT&T service you have to specifically subscribe and tell them what you want to get. For instance if you are a fan of sushi you can configure your "profile" to know that you like sushi. And if you get close enough to a sushi restaurant that has payed to advertise on their network you will get a notice. It is not spam, and in most cases you only have to pay for the locator service itself. You do not pay for individual messages.

I had a chance to go the a 3g conference last year and there are a lot of really nice features that are available as a result of these locator services. The main reason it has not been deployed across the country already is that many of the providers are very concerned about their networks being abused and losing customers.

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Originally posted here by steve.milner

On a serious note, though, they would only text those people wh had signed up for these services!

Steve

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Untill some one figures out a loophole and spams the whole customer base....

Interesting discusion here.

The more convience services that are offered, the more they "control" us. Once upon a time before cell phones you had to hardwire tap a line for example. Now you can just snatch it right out of the air. Then you ad these coast to coast walkie talkies, and the rise in GPS. They offer us an illusion of safety and convience and in return we give away our civil liberties.

Besides that who wants to walk down the street and pass a strip mall. Suddenly your cell phone has 13 different text messages that amount to nothing more than advertisements. You think the internet is bad for drive by spam and pop ups. Wait till we start having to worry about the software on our cell phones and wireless pda's, just like we have to worry about Windows with an AV. Then they will sell us something to protect us from them. Makes a lot of damn sense to me. You?

Call me paranoid if you wish. If I hadn't grown up with this processor wired to my spinal cord, I wouldn't subscribe to this stuff. But since I was brought up in a world of technology I must revert back to, " If you can't beat 'em join 'em."

Be safe and stay free

There is no civil liberty attached to a wireless device contstantly transmitting information back to a central core and freely available to anyone with a radio tuned to UHF frequencies. Watch your cell phone everytime the little light blinks it's polling for data and possibly modifying local location tables at the cell control station.

In the United States, someone who probably lost a loved one due to a failed 911 call, incited some minoroty group that most likely won the hearts of a few people who eventually instituted the 911 regulation that forced cell phone companies to come up with some kind of way to locate a telephone. That is why I constantly preach, be careful what you scream for as a people. With newer technologies, such as GPRS that became much easier, becasue even at the time the FCC set a deadline for the system to be operational, it didn't work. Now it works a little, within a few hundred yards, or hundred feet if your lucky. I am not sure how someone could tell the instant you walk into a store that your are there, the cell phone company isn't doing it. They can barely keep people talking without interference and degraded signals and dropouts, and chances are you will lose the singnal walking into the building. My guess, and if it was me, I would snoop the IMEI being broadcast back to the control site and force a text message on you through a mass spam e-mail gateway. But I am not of that sort, and if I walked into a store that spammed me they can kiss my ass, and I'll go someplace else. Unless of course I chose to be notified on my own accord.

The FCC gave cell phone companies until 2001 to make it work. Now they have 4 more years, Phase 2 is dues in December of 2005. So it's getting better but in all situations new and expensive equipment must be deployed. Major cities are pretty decent, especially test beds. But hell, no one considers anthing less that a few hundred feet possible in terms of mass rollout. UNLESS, GPS receivers are imbeded. But at a few hundred feet someone should be able to see your burning car. :) If you look on the positive side of the technology. Or your girlfriend sees what pub your hidding out in. :D Bottom line, some carriers don't even want to spend the money on it and if they do, they are looking for ways to make up for the expense.

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There is no civil liberty attached to a wireless device contstantly transmitting information back to a central core and freely available to anyone with a radio tuned to UHF frequencies.

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While this is a very valid point, one that I will agree with you on. It doesn't reflect our bill of rights.

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Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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Losely, this allows us security in privacy of our homes and effects.

The point is their should be more privacy, not less. We have all this "wonderful technology" and the best we can do is create lots of spam, and serve pop ups. IMHO that is a violation of my rights.

Perhaps the cell company isn't responsible. Just as Microsoft isn't responsible for things like lop.com, bargain buddy, and cydoor. The point is they have taken it upon themselves to develop new technology for us to enjoy, and all that has happened is it is a general annoyance. If that doesn't violate our rights, then you might as we'll wipe your ass with a copy of the bill of rights and hope not to paper cut yourself.

Well, if you have read the original artical, it is technology to limit their ability to track you.....but it is not. It will be a service, probably by subscription, that limits the uses that can be used as they follow you. In other words, they are still going to be able to know your location, but if you opt out of certain services, buisesses won't be able to use this to spam you with.
Our (USA) bill of rights, no longer apply to an individual. We have let them modify this to the point, that if any agency wants to they can search, tap, hinder and hamper you as much as they want, or will.

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Originally posted here by moxnix
Well, if you have read the original artical, it is technology to limit their ability to track you.....but it is not. It will be a service, probably by subscription, that limits the uses that can be used as they follow you. In other words, they are still going to be able to know your location, but if you opt out of certain services, buisesses won't be able to use this to spam you with.
Our (USA) bill of rights, no longer apply to an individual. We have let them modify this to the point, that if any agency wants to they can search, tap, hinder and hamper you as much as they want, or will.

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Exactly, they are selling us a service we don't really need. To allow us to protect our selves from being found so they can give us their spam. Here's an idea, why create such a service in the first place? Why does they phone company, government need to know where I am at all times. So they can sell me a service to stop others from tacking me? Maybe I am missing the benefit here.

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Originally posted here by dopeydadwarf
Exactly, they are selling us a service we don't really need. To allow us to protect our selves from being found so they can give us their spam. Here's an idea, why create such a service in the first place? Why does they phone company, government need to know where I am at all times. So they can sell me a service to stop others from tacking me? Maybe I am missing the benefit here.

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How can you say "we" don't really need it. Perhaps you don't need it, and based on that you will not pay for it. There is obviously a market for this type of service or the companies wouldn't even be looking to sell it. What we "need" is a very ambigous statement. There are many different forms of "need" from the things that allow us to survive to the things that bring us enlightenment( Maslow's needs theory ) If you don't want to be tracked, don't carry a cell phone, it's that simple. The government is not forcing you to carry a cell phone.

Damn those government conspiracies.

There's always the new cellphone marketing gimic available to maintain your privacy. You can buy them in the 7-11. You buy the phone and you buy the minutes right there. No paperwork required. So next time you are 500 miles from your house go into the 7-11 and pay cash for one. They will never know who bought it so they will never know who you are. They will know where you are - but then they are tracking an unknown person.

If you do something naughty with the phone like call the FBI and threaten the president simply destroy the phone and thoroughly hide the remains.... No-one will be any the wiser. Other than that, caller ID may give the person your number and that may be used to locate you when it is turned on but other than that you are anonymous.

My cell phone has a location indentifier program built in, but it also lets you disable this. I wonder if it is really disabled. I have a sanyo 8100 if anyone finds an article on it.

They can still find your general location if the phone is tuned on. Signal levels from adjacent sites could be used to mark location within a few city blocks, but that would take personal intervention on the part of the cell operators controlling center and a few engineers. Hell, even if it's turned off I could blast a mobile radiation pattern around the cell site area you were last connected to and excite chrystals in the reciever that would vibrate and make a small presence known. Very small but perceptable. They would make an identifiable noise and if given the previous footprint that I may have recorded earlier, you could be found. Diffulculty level, extreme but hypthetically possible. The expertise of the investigator and the high cost of equipment make it highly unlikely, even improbable outside of very rare circumstances.

Road: Now who says that when I'm not using it I'm carrying it with me. Who says I'd use it more than once?

And I give you fair warning..... if you try to excite my crystals with your big pulsing thingy your going to get a shock..... ;)

Hmm, I don't want to excite your chrystals either..... but while on the subject, I could also pick up a laptop so better not have one of those either. A cheap radio from radio shack will do that as long as it can tune to your CPU frequncy, those crystals generating that 1.2Ghz signal are my friend if I am looking for you. With a little time I could map out every laptop finger print in your band of 7-11 cell phone conspirators. :) In fact I could set outside with a van and pinpoint your compressor on the beer fridge for future reference when beverages are needed, all using an extremely sensitive loop antenna and a radio reciever, not your typical AM.FM variety, but something nice. The factor in your favor? I have to follow you to the 7-11 store and be in some kind of contact with the emitting device while you have it in your posession to get a base line. Hmmm, now I see how I scared away a blind date talking about this stuff once. I wouldn't do it, it's just possible and fun to theorize

I can see why you scared off the blind date...... You aren't exciting my crystals talking about it either....<snikker>

OTOH, you are making some assumptions there. Mainly, that I am a know and watched "threat". Assuming I am then I would also be rated as "Extreme" for you to be paying that much attention to me. My example is for the average "Joe" to have his 5 minutes threatening the prez. before signing off forever, (assuming Joe has that much sense....;) )

Of course.... Now I pointed this out I will probably have the feds following me around in unmarked cars, dark glasses and trenchcoats waiting for me to buy one of these phones..... Don't worry guys.... I have nextel and my home number is in the book if you want me....<S>

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Originally posted here by mohaughn
How can you say "we" don't really need it. Perhaps you don't need it, and based on that you will not pay for it. There is obviously a market for this type of service or the companies wouldn't even be looking to sell it. What we "need" is a very ambigous statement. There are many different forms of "need" from the things that allow us to survive to the things that bring us enlightenment( Maslow's needs theory ) If you don't want to be tracked, don't carry a cell phone, it's that simple. The government is not forcing you to carry a cell phone.

Damn those government conspiracies.

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I respect your opinion. I would however like to say this, I disagree with you my friend. When you are born into this world you accept things that you don't "need". There are really only four things you have to do while you are here. Eat, sleep, reproduce, and die. While the word "need" is a very ambigous. It is often misunderstood for the word "want". Perhaps I too have misused it. Further more, I wasn't referring to the cellular service. More so the tracking ability therein.

I guess all this really boils down to is . "You can not simultaneously prepare for and prevent war."

I appreciate the link you supplied. Perhaps we should move this discussion over to Ennis's boards?

That link sort of directs Maslow a little off from my understanding. To equate a cell phone to the needs theory is off point as well, it doesn't fit. The Maslow triangle is about basic human needs and that we are motivated solely by satidfying each block of lower need, it is the basis of existence, starting from the bottom of the triangle. For instance, we have physiological needs, or in this site example "body" needs that must be met before we can move on to "Security" needs. Without satisfying body needs one can never achieve security. Correct me if I am wrong but Maslow placed the most basic of mankind needs into Food, Shelter, Clothing. Without food, the body cannot function, without shelter the body is not resistance to climate and the elements, without clothing we also have no protection against the environment. Certainly a cell phone doesn't play into satisfying the need for social acceptance at a basic level, finding a mate and someone to share warmth with and correcting sexual tendancies in the species. A cell phone probably doesn't satisfy the desire to self actualize one's existence among mankind either. So yes I see the point of view that one may not need a cell phone but I don't see the correlation to matierialism and maslow. Also I don't recall maslow adding a "Spiritual" element to his theory, it's implied in self actualization but I don't recall that extra bit.

Ok right now they will sell you this service. Once the service is established then they will offer it for free and the advertisers will pay for it. The next step will be to make the service part of the contract you sign. This will happen slowly over time. Because there is big money in advertising it is a given that it will happen over time. The advantage to you the consumer is that it will cheapen the cost of your service over time in any free market ecomany. The disadvantage is you will be suckered into the spaming of cell phones over time with very little complaint. (Maybe not the users of AO as everyone here on the average seems to more observant of the world than what you find in most places).
This kind of stuff is already happening in other areas of the digital world. Look at the newer car radios that are capable of receiving text on the FM airways in some places they are sending adds over the signal not just station identification. And get this they charge two different rate schedules one for an on air ad and one for text ads. The only way to fight it is earlier and loudly, make an issue of it now and you might make a difference in the long run. But most people are sheep and when the man tells them it is good for them they take it with out question. That’s part of what I like about AO most of you out there tend to think about things just a little squed from the rest and that makes me happy to be squed right along with you.

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My cell phone has a location indentifier program built in, but it also lets you disable this. I wonder if it is really disabled. I have a sanyo 8100 if anyone finds an article on it.

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I wonder if this is refering to "Calling Number Identifier" service.. ?
The tracking service relies on 2 things
First is your phones own Identifier (serial number, GSM Sim card number), this is like your IP on a network..
Second is a radio signal.. with the radio signal your phone is pin pointed by standared Triangulation methods.. 2 or more monitoring stations are needed to pin point you..
With GSM it is easy .. as it is a time domain system they know how far you are from the base, with analogue phone systems they need RDF equipment to determine direction.
With both systems you don't need to be in a phone conversation to be tracked..

As for the service of "allowing" my location to be made available.. two words.. "Big Brother"

Ithink we just need to put the monitoring scales into the Loo and the cycle is complete.. (actualy there is a marketing opertunity here.. medical mainly but I think we can get the retailes to fid a way to take advantage.. bingo..


Cheers

There are phones that have software built in that use time domain to report it's relative location and report to a controller what site it is connected to and which ones are in order for hand off by signal ranking.

I read a book were medical companies had all the toilets in america wired and your "export" was analysed via a huge network. Crazy, but you never know. When a "sick" person was identified with some deadly strains of DNA virus, they were whisked away.