Record opium output forecast in Afghanistan

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Opium output hit a record high in Afghanistan in 2003, with another increase expected this year in the war-torn country that does not have any other real exports, a conference was told on Sunday.

Two years after the ruling Taliban were ousted from power by a US-led coalition, opium production has skyrocketed as farmers crank up output, threatening efforts to strengthen the government and establish a proper economy.

"The conference is looking at income alternatives, demand reduction and law enforcement," said Adam Bouloukos, deputy representative of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

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Another country "liberated"....... :rolleyes:

Source

Free Market?

They do what they know....... Do you want to grow corn at $5/year or opium at $50/year... Which would you grow?

Ever been outside the USA? Ever been to a third world country?

Think!

Corn definately corn tiger at $5/year.

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have you Ever been to a third world country? Tiger

Er... Yes, have you? And you need to understand that they can buy their neighbors cornfield for 1 years worth of opium growing and have the neighbor produce for him. And to them it is just a crop, it isn't the terrible thing we see it as. And lastly, they don't see police and lawmakers but ever to reinforce that it is a bad thing and when they do see a police officer it's probably their brother in law.

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Er... Yes, have you?

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i live in one. going out hunting for my neighbour :D . i know the kind of horrible stroies you hear like this one

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And you need to understand that they can buy their neighbors cornfield for 1 years worth of opium growing and have the neighbor produce for him. And to them it is just a crop, it isn't the terrible thing we see it as. And lastly, they don't see police and lawmakers but ever to reinforce that it is a bad thing and when they do see a police officer it's probably their brother in law.

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lol still laughing

which third world country have you been. i know there are some extremly poor countries in africa and some countries ruled by religious fanatica in the middle east where there are horrible incidents, no law(or law is on the side of brother-in- law). but the way you presented the picture of third world countries every body in my school had a good laugh. its not the case in most of developing countries which are governed by law, i will tell you an incident i think it 4-5 years ago i don't remember correctly there was this group from some school in the US at the Kathmandu airport(Nepal ....another third world country tiger) they were to go to Delhi(in India one more third world country ) and from there to mariticious and back to US. when the plane landed at the airport at Delhi they were so damm scared from the stroies they had heared back home they refused to come out of the plane it was quite a entertaning drama actually, it was after three hours when somebody from the US embassy came and pacified them( it took him almost another 1 hour) they came out. and come on tiger i bet you have never been to a third world country. you have only heard some horrible strories

and errr i will still grow corn at $5/year.

Wolverine: I'm not sure I understand why you keep referring to "horrible incidents". It has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and the example you gave was utterly irrelevant.

My experience of third world countries?

1. I spent more than a year living in Belize. Living and working from the Airport, (built on a swamp in the middle of nowhere), but spending much of my time in or over the jungle and the Mayan mountains. I conducted several anti-drug and anti-gun running operations during that time. Additionally I spent a significant amount of that time "out there" in the jungle regions sleeping on the mud floor with the same pigs and chickens the locals, (Mayans), do.

2. Over an eight month period I spent some 3 to four months in Jamaica's central region firstly providing Search & Rescue followed by disaster relief and finally with an Aid Organization.

3. A month in Tunisia gave me a view of third world countries with a different religious base but the issues and problems were somewhat identical.

So I am far from unaware of the issues, lifestyles, problems faced by both the government and the peoples of such countries.

While India might be considered a third world country New Delhi is hardly the epitomy of "backwards"...... ;) It's a major city with all the infrastructure that goes along with it. If you get away to the more remote parts of your country you won't find the infrastructure and everything will become a little more rural and isolated. They don't have computers Wolverine, they don't even have electricity..... Modern technology to them is 20mg of penicillin provided by a field surgical team they _may_ see maybe once every year or two - ever seen that stuff work the way it is supposed to? I have, in people who have never been exposed to it against bacteria that haven't either - really unbeleivable - an 8" swollen machete gash that was oozing puss to an unswollen amber like crystalline crust over a clean wound in 48 hours...... just 20 mg per day of it.......


Back to my point. In the "normal" areas of third world countries, (away from the major cities), the society is smaller. A large village is only a couple of hundred people so it is natural that everyone knows or is related to the law enforcement if there even is any "in place", (many have roaming law enforcement that may not be seen for weeks at a time). Furthermore, communication with the outside world is negligable so their awareness of other societies and their laws outside their own community is non existent. Thus, if someone tells them they can get more money for crop A than they can for crop B it is natural, (knowing that they don't see crop A as a particularly bad thing and are unaware that the eventual consumer may be breaking a law a thousand miles away in a different culture). It's simply a more efficient use of their limited resource, (cultivatable land).

I'm pleased that I gave yourself and your classmates a good laugh. Now maybe you and they should consider completing your education by going to those regions of your country that are truly third world and seeing them for yourselves...... You'll then be able to properly appreciate how well off you are.

IMHO A stable and powerful Government at the Center is needed, that is commited towards eradicating this menance, no matter how remote the villages are and law enforsers may come weekly ( Opium dosen't grow in a week). and after growing it has to be transported outside to a central hub. outside the village so i don't think remoteness of villages is a problem. if the Central Govt. is committed there may be a few drug runners but it will never reach the level as in Afginasthan. Afganisthan has always been the biggest producer of opium. because the Government of afginsthan has actively supported the cultivation of opium to buy weapons as they were always at war externally and internally and i don't believe there still is a government in Afganisthan. it is still is controlled by warlords.


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While India might be considered a third world country New Delhi is hardly the epitomy of "backwards"

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Hey Tiger i belong to a very remote part of India. i have just come to New Delhi very recently. the village is very remote , the villegers themself handle law enforcement. it also has in abundence wild Bhang(Cannabis indica) it may also provide farmers with a good deal of money , but they still grow Corn . because they know that they will have to take it out of their village thats when they are going to get caught.

What would happen if someone powerful came along and offered to take it out of the village for them? It would be easier to hide since you can hide the fields away in deep woods where non-one technically owns the land..... Thats what they do in Belize... Nobody knows whose fields they are unless you catch the guys right there. That takes resources these countries don't have. And don;t tell me they can leave troops there..... been there, done that..... They would smoke the field themselves!!!!!!! It clears the field but not in the way intended.

While waht yousay is basically correct you will find that the practicalities of properly curbing such activities when rich men are bankrolling it in poor countries are very difficult to overcome.

To come back to the original point made by Conf1rm3d_K1ll, this is undoubtedly true.

The Taliban were very effective about suppressing the production of opium, and were very effective in enforcing law and order. If you get your hand chopped off you aren't likely to steal again are you? Being forced to watch public hangings in the football stadium is very effective when you know the person being hanged was an opium farmer ...

Didn't stop there of course, as they were very effective at forcing women to stay at home - after all a woman's place is in the home isn't it, even if she doesn't have a husband? And why should people be allowed to listen to music, TV, or have any sort of contact with the outside world?

Originally, the people of Afghanistan welcomed the Taliban, as they did restore law and order.
However, when they realised what the terrible price was, most changed their minds.

If we wanted to take the same approach it's easy - anyone caught with opium is given a summary trial and then executed (preferably in public) ...

So what is best ??

Don't know, but if we in the west didn't buy drugs in the first place, then this wouldn't be an issue.

War Torn country? Did anyone see it before the Taliban was removed? And if so, you must have forgot what it looked like. Of course you might have supported the taliban so this news would bother you and fuel the desire that the US is a bunch of jack booted Nazis.

Well put comments by all, I've been out for a few days. Darkes, I really doubt much of that opium hits the us, I am not in a drug trade, but there is a big world out there, I bet it goes east to china and north to Russia and Europe. Perhaps they grow it for medicinal purpose??? ;) It's amazing that they could be producing what the article claims... 2/3 of the world opium market in just 2 years?

Hmm being from India may taint a viewpoint in regards to afganistan?

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Hmm being from India may taint a viewpoint in regards to afganistan?

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and may i know why?

I wouldn't view India as a 3rd world country. It's not as developed as the united states in terms of infrastructure reaching huge areas and in fact that could be a good thing. I would view India as an emerging power. A very different place in all aspects.

India has a vested interest in Afganistan. Speaking politically; that was my motivation to the comment. Perhaps, taint wasn't the correct word - I didn't mean it to represent a negative point. I mean that perhaps being an Indian directly influences views on afganistan. After all you are in the neighborhood and are very interested in what happens there. In particular, perhaps the ralationship they could have with pakistan and the goods they could or could not eventually trade in, also the religeous relationship and how that may play into their future politics. I could go deeper into the cold war and our (united states) relationship to pakistan vs. afganistan and how that negatively affected the relationship to Inda because of soviet agression and our chosen support. But I think it gives you an idea where I come from in that statement.

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India has a vested interest in Afganistan.

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OMG .. . whose forces are currently positioned in afganisthan. who is setting up military bses in Pakisthan and has a permenent millitary base in deigo gresia , now tell me who has vested interest in the region. so i might say your openion dosen't count as well , it dosen't work that way RoadClosed today even a small development affects everybody.well being a neighbour we are conserned with the developments in Afganisthan. India and Afganisthan shared a very good friendly relations before Pakisthan Sponsered Talibans took over. Afganisthan being stable helps us more than anybody. agreed U.S and India have not been best of friends I could also go deeper into the cold war and ask a few questions who created taliban , who funded Osama and party if not U.S. the same very people were supposed to be the good guys because they were the enemy's enemy (India and USSR) .

You are taking my comments as an attack they aren't. The US supported Pakistan during the cold war because the Soviets invaded Afganistan. I wasn't speaking from my perspective, the US interest is obvious, diogo garcia has been there for a long time. Since the US supprted pakistan, the relationship with india has been strained and the relationship between india and afganistan has also been strained, you mentioned that yourself. I merely made a statement based on facts and history. You said yourself the relationship with afganistan was adversly effected by the "pakistan" lead Taliban. I was trying to say that your political and social history could effect your view on Afganistan. Nothing wrong with that, my politically conservative based american view of the region effects my way of thinking. I would think that being from India, you would be interested in a stable government with less ties to Pakistan but perhaps my opinion doesn't matters so much. ;)

As for the cold war, afganistan wouldn't have been their only target if opposing forces were't applied? Good or bad, the cause was considered correct at the time. In some cases in the past I got the impression that India hated Afganistan as much as Pakistan. That was the origin of my comment to put it on the table. It's a perception.

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Originally posted here by RoadClosed


Darkes, I really doubt much of that opium hits the us, I am not in a drug trade,

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No it doesnt because it is refined into morphine base and acetylated into heroin(di-acetyl morphine) and then shipped to the usa(tons of it). Last i saw opium was quite rare and heroin plentiful ~15$can a quarter point (one quarter of one tenth of a gram at approx ten percent purity)

"Don't know, but if we in the west didn't buy drugs in the first place, then this wouldn't be an issue"
So very true, you would think that the entrenchment of the mafia into american society due to the prohibition of alcohol would have been a lesson learned :(

The taliban had grown the poppy for many years for cash and right at the end of their time, offered to kill off "most" of the production to gain world kudos. Now they are back at it again.

Why is anyone surprised?

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Originally posted here by gold eagle
The taliban had grown the poppy for many years for cash and right at the end of their time, offered to kill off "most" of the production to gain world kudos. Now they are back at it again.

Why is anyone surprised?

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I have to strongly disagree with you on this issue.

The Taliban did not support the growing of this crop, which was, and is again today actively supported by the warlords that currently control most areas outside the capital.
If the US is serious about this, then this is the issue they have to deal with.

I'm not defending the Taliban in any way, as should have been clear from my original post.

However, they were extremely effective in doing what they set out to do - i.e. creating a very hardline Islamic state, which amongst other things forbids the production of drugs.

Well, that is the US for you. While we liberate the country, why not increase output the drug output of it. Haha. Not much that you can say. I doubt they are working as hard as they say they are to quelch it.

-Cheers-

ic completely agree with darkes The Taliban regime was the first in the history of Afghanistan to stop the cultivation of poppy It simply isn't possible for anyone except the Taliban to stop it overnight . They had real power. The present regime does not . whatever the Taliban thought was against their religion they were very strict about. be it poppy or women (liberation) ..