help with diagnosis

I've been having problems with my box for the longest time. I haven't been able to make a permanent fix for my problem. Here are my specs:

Soyo Dragon SYP4I865PE Plus Motherboard
P4 2.4 Ghz
512 mb ram
80 Western Digital HDD, + 60 GB hitacthi later on.
Nvidia geForce FX 5600 256 mb
XP Pro service pack 1

The first time I booted it up, it would light up, then shutdown for a couple of seconds, then start up normally. This happens everytime the CMOS is reset. Thats not really the problem, but maybe a symptom. Here are the real problems.

About a month later, I would boot up and get a message that says, "Windows has detected a registry file that has been replaced by an unrecognized one. That file has been replaced. The replacement was successful" or something like that. Afterwards, it would give me a windows file protection error. Then programs wouldn't run or give me crazy sounding errors, nothing in particular, different errors every time. So I decided to repair the installation. Then some crazy stuff happened.

During the repair, it told me that my windows xp cd was invalid or corrupt. So after asking around, I was told that it wouldnt hurt to reset the CMOS on the Motherboard. So I did. Still no luck. I installed a new hard drive, and tried to install windows on it. It said my CD was bad. and wouldn't install without me holding down the enter key to select retry for every file that needed to be installed. So heres the weirdest part. For some reason, after the failed installation, I reset the CMOS after i took out the new hard drive, so I reset it while it had no HDD. I plug in the old HDD, and the windows install goes without a hitch.

About a month later, I started getting the registry, file protection errors that i mentioned in the second paragraph. I eventually decided to install again, but I had to go through the same process. It only worked when I removed the hard drives, and reset the CMOS.

So, this whole process has happened twice more, (a total of 4 times) in the past 1/2 year. Windows registry, file protection errors, a good amount of time in between eachother. Just recently, it happened a fifth and sixth time. This is where I can use the most detective help from the community, because it might be able to pinpoint something I'm not smart enough to pick up on.

I downloaded a bootable knoppix cd, and messed around with it on my computer. I used it for a couple days, booting up with and without it, using both operating systems. The thing is, that the registry, file protection errors came on very quickly and persistently after I used knoppix. I couldnt log in, had to install again, same crazy way as last time with pulling the HDD and reseting the CMOS to get it to install with no errors.

VERY recently, a girls pc was getting a windows/system not found error on boot, so I told her i could take out her HDD, plug it into my box, and burn a cd for her with her stuff. During this time, i have a second HDD installed, i use it for docs NTFS. I pull out the doc drive, plug in hers. I boot up, and i get the same error she did (windows/system not found). So I take it out, and put my doc drive back in, no changed jumper settings throught. I have to go through the same crazy install process again, because i keep getting her error.

Now, I have no clue if its a hardware problem because of the way i have to install, or if i truely have a bad cd, or whatever. But yesterday, i got a crazy screen on boot up, with all kinds of crazy colors and letters changing positions. I dont really know what its called or how to describe it, so i cant google for it. I took a pic of it, and its attached. Maybe someone recognizes it, and can tell me what it is. I hope its related to my problem. Thanks for reading, help out if you like.

First off.. real nice monitor.. :D

video display drivers might be fux0red for that screenshot.. really looks like a memory fault on the video card or something..

now maybe you're facing more than one problem.. might have ram memory problems.. do you have more than one stick to make up that 512 ? you might try downloading and running docmemory , you'll find docmemory here. if you have two sticks.. run it twice.. reversing the sticks on your mobo..as it can only test memory not in use.. and lower memory area problems can be a real bitch.. also you might try the memtest86 mem diag.. doing the same thing as I've suggested above. that one you'll find at memtest86.com

lastly.. Western digital drives are VERY picky.. if you don't have the jumpers set on "cable select" you could run into all kinds of crazy things/problems.. so try setting that drives jumpers on cable select..

that's pretty much all I can think of for now.. other than doing a reinstall of your video cards drivers.. (you might leave that one for last)

I also noticed that you said that this all happened very quickly after you ran live knoppix. Possibly could be a virus on your disk?

Or a second possibility could be a BIOS virus?

But I do think I would go with a memory problem as the first thing to check as sumdumguy suggested.
If you have a spare stick lying around somewhere put that in there.
or one last thing.

Did you build this computer?
If so, you could of accidentally damaged a pin on the processor. Might be a thing to check.

Hey man, can you tell me who "deals" for your videocard, I think that we might be able to do business :D

Seriously, I have seen screen displays like that which were due to corrupt/incorrect drivers or the videocard memory failing. This might be an unrelated incident. Getr the latest drivers from the videocard MANUFACTURER...........bugger the Microsoft certification!.....and don't get generic/reference drivers from the chipset manufacturer :eek: .

Similarly, your other problems could be RAM related. sumdumguy and cheyenne have given you good advice.

What puzzles me is that you problems happen after weeks rather than the hours I would expect with a hardware problem. Also, if memory or video cards are physically on the way out this is a progressive process, they get worse and worse then they die. Your symptoms sound to be cyclical rather than progressive?

The first thing I would do is get ny antivirus updated and run it in safe mode. I would then get a couple of "second" opinions by running online scans from Panda and PcCillin (Trend Microsystems). I would like to eliminate possible virus activities from the investigation.

Another possibility is that your HDD is on the way out?.........after a while this would corrupt files.a reinstall would probably fix this for a while? Get the latest diagnostics proggy from Western Digital and run a low level scan on your drive.

The next thing you need to do is go to the motherboard's site and check for any BIOS updates.

My closing comment at this stage is have you checked that the motherboard, video card and memory are all compatible? there may be instability issues?

For example cheap RAM is frequently a problem and not all videocards are compatible with all MoBos, just because they "fit the slot"

Please report back..............this is an interesting one :D

I have some questions regarding your computer's specs. My friend recently fixed some of his issues on his PC that were the result of a powersupply on its way out. So what is the power rating of your powersupply, and how old is it? And did these issues suddenly turn up after you added the second HDD?

BTW, check this website out and do the calculations - http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

My rough estimates say that you need at least a 350-400watt powersupply to run that machine. Even if your powersupply is rated at that, there are things to consider including amperage on each rail (+3, +5, +12 volts) that the powersupply can handle, and the demand that your hardware puts on it. The way to test this is to find a friend who has a powerful powersupply and "borrow" it from him for a while to see if the problem is solved by it. Also removing some unneeded highpower-consuming devices may help.

First of all, this really sucks because every single part I have is a suspect. Second, I’m in college so I don’t have access to parts to switch and swap to diagnose.


Sumdumguy
1 stick, 512 mb.

cheyenne1212

Would a bios password (ideally) prevent a virus from screwing it?
Wouldn’t clearing the CMOS get rid of it?
Yes, I built it. Do the side effects of a screwed pin include corrupted files? I would think that everything would be effected immediately, and the speed would suffer. When this box is working, its pretty damn fast.

nihil

I’ll try what you suggested, the third time it crashed, I did a BIOS update, but it crashed again later, as if it didn't do anything. But it won’t hurt.
How do I check compatibility? I’ll check their sites after this post, but is there a site where I can put in my specs and it will spit out if they are compatible?
Cheap RAM may be an issue, I bought it OEM from newegg.com, 1 stick 512 mb

Tim_axe

It’s a new 350 supply. I’ll check it out when I find another supply.


By the way, all parts were bought from newegg.com- any similar problems from anyone else? Just a reminder, that screen only happened once, and I am posting on the same box I am diagnosing. Another problem, is that it takes WEEKS for me to see if I’ve fixed the damn thing.

I still say.. run the two memory diags I suggested.. they're free and they'll do indepth testing.. you can let it loop for a while seeing if you can get it to "hiccup".. Tim's idea is good too.. if you can borrow a supply for a week or two (interchange with a college friend if possible).. you might also post the specs for the supply.. the various current outputs for each voltage should be on a label on that supply.

nihil's suggestion about memory and compatiblity might just be the problem.. If I were you and could scrape the money together.. buy crucial ram.. that brand is top notch, should work on just about any mobo..

I thought I'd also mention that some mobo's may have bad low esr caps in them see CXGJarrod's thread about info and a link I posted and inspect your mobo for bad caps.

lastly.. do check to see that your western digital drive's jumpers are set to cable select.

Hi Soda,

HOW TO FIND COMPATIBILITY INFORMATION

1. The Microsoft XP support site has a compatibility section. If it is listed you should be OK, if it is not listed you will probaby still be OK. What you are looking for is stuff they say there are issues with.

2. nVidia and ATI have support sites with a FAQ section. They also host discussion forums where you can talk to fellow owners. All you really want to know is if anyone else has had a problem with the MoBo you are using.

3. The major HDD manufacturers all have diagnostic programs on their support sites.

I am 200% behind sumdumguy on Crucial as a RAM supplier.........it has a lifetime warranty and over here, is about as economical as you can get.

Tim's point on the power supply got me thinking (350w is quite adequate for your system IMHO)............is your mains power supply "clean" you should get a surge protection block....they are only a few dollars. Power stations practice preventive maintenance (I have installed a few of those management systems in my time ;) ) This is cyclical in its nature......when you take down a generator for maintenance and fire up another one you can get a power surge.................this would also be cyclical?

EDIT: a "blip" (surge or brownout) could also explain the funny screen :)

Good luck

A little more evidence...

I made my docmemory disk... but i got errors in the process. Picture attatched.

So!

Now the power supply, processor, memory, cdrom, HDD, GFX card, and now my Floppy drive are all in question. Could this just be a crapped mobo?

Should I go ahead and use the docmemory boot disk even though i got errors in the process? Its a boot disk, so If its corrupt im afraid of what it might do to the memory.

BTW thanks a lot for your help. Ive met a lot of nice people since posting on AO.

Hello Soda,

have you tried booting in vga mode and if so does the problem still occure. You could also be getting a resorce conflict, use the msinfo32.exe utiliy to check for shared or conflicting resorces. If there is you may have to change io or irq settings etc.

What software have you got installed check to see if there is something incompatable with your os.

Trouble shooting problems on pc's can be a nightmare and take up alot of time, have you used the msconfig utilty? its always a good place to start,

Hi-

I used DocMem overnight, no errors. Today and yesterday Iv'e been using knoppix, and just a couple minutes ago i went back to windows. I 2 sudden IE crashes, and 2 sudden windows restarts. It actually gave me a crash report this time, it said it was caused by a device driver!!! So, I didnt mount any drives with knoppix, and I am going to go to all the manufactuer sites i can to look for updates that arent on the windows site. I have a feeling its the video driver, but who knows.

Sound cards and modems are also favourite culprits.

Please keep us informed..............you might try to get it running stable on windows first?......windows drivers and *nix are frequently an issue?

Cheers

I'll bet dollars to donuts that your memory is crap..

Quote:

---

For example cheap RAM is frequently a problem

---

nihil said this before, and I commented that you should try crucial memory.
regardless of the memory testing good with docmemory, if it's cheap memory or the fault is in the lower area of memory, you'll have all sorts of wierd problems. no sense in beating a dead dog over this.. you wanna fix it, you'll have to do something beyond staring at it. That means cough up some bucks, buy some good memory.

Nihil- Integrated sound and no modem.

sumdumguy- I'm gonna order some memory pretty soon. I'm on a college budget so its hard to suck it up and buy some. That mean's no pop-tarts for around a month.

2 bsod's today, im posting it up here then looking it up at microsoft afterwards.

Thanks for the help YALL

Soda

[edit] I looked up cmuda.sys and page fault in non paged area, cmuda is the integrated sound driver, and page fault in non paged area is about memory. Went to the SOYO site, downloaded the newest driver, and I'm about to place an order for some crucial memory. One question, for 512 mbs, whats a better choice, 2 sticks or 1 or doesnt matter?

could knoppix have used the integrated sound and messed around with some kind of settings that would carry over to windows and give me problems?[/b]

Edit numero 2

Does integrated sound in the Mobo have its own memory? could THAT memory be hopped up on goofballs? That would mean a new Mobo right?

Hi Soda,

AFAIK most onboard sound uses system memory. I have (personally) never encountered a problem with onboard sound, other than conflicts with the video card............check the IRQs (interrupt requests) and see if they are sharing..........see if you can manually reallocate to a vacant slot. You are getting a BSOD (used to be GPFs :D ) that appears to be related to sound and memory, so SDG could be absolutely correct with faulty memory...........but it could be a conflict?

If you have a spare PCI slot, you could always get a cheap soundcard and disable the onboard sound............that would save having to buy a new MoBo, if your sound chip has gone AWOL.

And Crucial memory ROCKS!!!...............I particularly like it for upgrading ex-commercial branded boxes...........just feed the details into their "memory selector" and you get a guaranteed solution :)

Good luck and keep us informed...........I have gotten the smell of blood on this one :p

Cheers

Heres an update... Today the CPU fan started grinding, but it stopped after a minute. I think it was just some built up dust or something.

Anyways....

It got me thinking... is the processor overheating?? I remember the first time this started happening was when I started installing games.... So i installed a heat monitor...

74 degrees celsius, on a p4 2.4 ghz 800 FSB

I talked to a friend, and he said asked me if I used the thermal grease. Ashamed, I told him I didn't. I didn't think it was necessary.... for some reason.

Anyways, im picking up some soon. I think this might be the cause of all the weird behavior. I thought a cpu fan and 2 case fans would be enough... guess not.

Hi Soda,

ooops! :) Yes, the thermal compound makes the contact between the processor and the heatsink. If this is not a good contact, the heatsink and fan don't do their job properly.

Don't get the cheap white goo.........pay the extra few dollars for silver, it is about 20x (2000%) more thermally efficient.

Cheers

I was told that the silver is somewhat dangerous... :confused:... because it conducts electricity differently? Any special precautions I should take?

the arctic silver thermal grease shouldn't be dangerous it's heat conductive properties are high. not electrically.. anyway.. you certainly wouldn't want to get any stuff on any pins. but AFAIK, you shouldn't have to worry..

74 degrees celsius.. yikes.. you should be able to get it down 20 degrees.. get a good fan and don't forget to get good memory too.. is your budget bigger now ?

Yeah I got a job as a webmaster... I hope to pick up some crucial memory soon... although this whole heat thing was totally overlooked on my end. Its running 74.. and when it goes to 75, I can tell programs lock up a bit... I think. could just be me, who knows.

sumdumguy is right,

Yes, silver is electrically conductive, whereas the white gunk is not. You should be safe with the pins as you will install the processor first, so they will be protected. Just be careful not to get it on the motherboard.

If you do clean it off very thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol (NO you may not drink some :D ) or trichoethylene 1-1-1. Use cotton buds/Q-tips.

Cheers

ahhh it's good to have money.. hehe..
yeah most likely it's just the heat that's causing it..
having crucial memory isn't crucial.. lol
but you'd be better off in the long run.

okay... this is officially the weirdest hardware problem ever.

Update- Arctic Silver is installed. The problem had nothing to do with heat, and the temp utility I downloaded was wrong. I found that the motherboard I was using had a utility hidden on a cd, and that gave me a good reading. I ran some hardcore docmem and MS memory tests on my RAM, and they would give me odd results. One day, the memory would have tons of errors, the next day, it would be all clean. I decided to buy a new motherboard to test the memory in it because I am going to build another system anyways. I picked up a ASUS. I put all my cards into the new board, put in the XP cd to format, and what do you know-
It says I have a bad CD (not the case, similar to my previous problems).
I reboot, this time the install goes 100% smooth. I use the box for a few days, and occasionally during the boot, the ASUS bios would freeze (similar to my previous problems), or during the windows screen, a BSOD would flash and restart. So-
After dealing with that for a few days, I decide to run my memory tests again. I run the tests, no problems. After a docmem burn-in test, I boot up the computer, and I don't see anything on the screen. I check the monitor, and the monitor is fine. I pull out the memory, and I still can't see anything on the screen while it boots, although it is thinking because the loading light blinks. While I am diagnosing, the video card starts making a grinding noise. I pull the agp card, and try a 32 meg ATI PCI video card in the top PCI slot.
Still nothing on the screen when I boot.

So, with no memory (rule out bad memory), and with both a AGP and PCI card, I cannot see what is happening when I boot. The monitor is fine (tested elsewhere).

I am wondering if the AGP video card has been the problem this whole time. The card has a BIOS itself, and I can see it loading before the ASUS BIOS (well not anymore). I am wondering if that was causing my "possible" bad memory readings on the old mobo sparratically, as well as causing instability. But what makes me doubt this is that the new video card I put in is not showing anything either, although it is PCI, and not AGP.

Thanks for reading, sorry for bringing up my old thread.

Some quick questions if you don't want to read the whole thread-
1. Does a mobo with a AGP slot require a AGP video card or can I use a PCI card
2. Can a bad AGP video card effect how the mobo reads RAM?
3. Are there any boot disks that can check a AGP card for suckyness?
4. Why won't I get monitor output with 2 different video cards?

btw im am finally going memory shopping after the next paycheck

1. It should work fine with a PCI card...

2. Most definitly could cause problems... As they all have to go through the chipset and that might cause the problem...

3. Probably is but I don't know of one... Best help I can offer here is www.google.com... someone is bound to have had your problem before.. hopefully.

4. Something got fried?

Hope this helps a little bit.. This is a hella crazy situation... I hope it never happens to me...