Solid Windows OS?

Hi there, i've just been reading about hacking on another site, when i thought that if you are a good enough hacker, it wouldn't matter what OS you was on, you could still make it more or less crackerproof couldn't you?

What do any of you think about this, and can you give me any ideas on how this could be possible?

Probably asking this because i'm so broke that i'll probably be using windows for a good while and i'm sure that if i was good enough i could make it pretty stable, or is this just being naive because the source code isn't freely available and this is more or less impossible?

Anyway, it is possible because there's nothing that can't be hacked.

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Probably asking this because i'm so broke that i'll probably be using windows for a good while and i'm sure that if i was good enough i could make it pretty stable, or is this just being naive because the source code isn't freely available and this is more or less impossible?

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...linux, most distros are free or MUCH cheaper than a LEGAL copy of windows...

I think if properly configured and updated Windows can be made as secure as any OS can be. you should install all the new security patches and updates from microsoft. install a good firewall and a Adware/Spyware remover update them regularly. always lookout for new patches and updates released by microsoft. no matter how hard you try people will always find a new way to get in you should always be on a lookout at least make their life a little bit harder.

this tut by valhallen Making your (win) PC more private and secure is also very good an informative on this topic

Do a search on this site. There's a few tutorials on here about securing Windows XP. I have some of them on my home system but not on this laptop.

Another thing is to play with Group Policies (Click START --> run --> type in gpedit.msc and hit enter). Look through the Group Policies in detail because there is a lot of stuff in there that is customizable.

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Originally posted here by Eonfire
Hi there, i've just been reading about hacking on another site, when i thought that if you are a good enough hacker, it wouldn't matter what OS you was on, you could still make it more or less crackerproof couldn't you?

What do any of you think about this, and can you give me any ideas on how this could be possible?

Probably asking this because i'm so broke that i'll probably be using windows for a good while and i'm sure that if i was good enough i could make it pretty stable, or is this just being naive because the source code isn't freely available and this is more or less impossible?

Anyway, it is possible because there's nothing that can't be hacked.

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Well the thing is i'm on windowsme OS which is known to be even more unstable, but i was thinking that if i was a hacker with a few years of experience i would be able to make it a lot more stable and then eventually as more years passed make it as stable as any OS there is. I know for a fact that i wouldn't need to do this because i'd be using Linux/UNIX anyway, but just for the fun of it i'm sure it would be possible.

I've got a blackICE firewall that has it's own IDS and an AVG virus scanner but i don't feel secure at all because of the fact that i'm using windows, but as i said, if i was experienced i'd maybe use routers/sandboxes and my own programs written in C/C++ that i could add to the OS, but this is all theory because : a) i don't know what a router is b) only have a very vague concept of what a sanbox does, and c) i don't know if programs written using C/C++ that i also have no knowledge of would be able to do much to an OS that i didn't have the source code for.

Hi,

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=243892

This is the "must have tools" sticky thread in the "miscellaneous security discussions" forum.

Browse through it for tools and applications that complement your traditional AV and firewall apps.

You must appreciate that WinME is a member of the 9x family of domestic OSes and does not have the inherent security features of the commercial NT systems.

If you add some additional applications, it can be made pretty secure, provided that you can prevent physical access.

Good luck

Okay. Here is my little addition.

#1. Windows, as any security proffessional would know, is just as stable as any other OS out there as long as it is kept updated. I.E. Windows Update, Driver updates, etc, etc.

#2. A router simply takes one internet connection, and shares it with other computers located nearby, thus creating a network. Using a router is not a way of making your system, 'more secure' though it certainly can be. I.E. It is not a security tool or anything like that. Google 'linksys' or 'dlink'.

#3. BlackICE Defender is not all that great in my opinion. I would reccomend you download Sygate or ZoneAlarm.

#4. For a virus scanner, I would go with Norton AV '04. But seeing as you are nearly broke, you could try Avast, which isn't all that bad.

#5. For a trojan scanner, which you should also get, try Moosoft's The Cleaner. This works VERY well.

#6. For General programs and applications, i.e. firewalls, scanners, etc, etc Check Download.com as this website includes many editorial reviews and a rating system.

#7. *NIX and it's many derivites are FREE, and OPEN SOURCE. You don't have to pay a thing!
You should look into Mandrake-Linux, Red Hat, FreeBSD, and MANY MANY others. ML is VERY easy to install (Easier than Windows in my opinion!). Red-hat same thing. BSD could be a pain if you have no computer knowledge within you.

#8. I personally use FreeBSD and Windows 2000. I agree with you that WindowsME is not that stable and there are many security exploits with it. However, following the above should have you protected from most things. It'll keep the skiddies out at least. If you feel insecure download and use one of the OS's in #7. They are very stable, they are proffesional, they are free.

This has been my little advice. Use it/dont use it...its all the same to me.

OK thanks again for the advice, i'll definately be coming back to this thread again. I would download linux but i'm on dail-up and i'm using an eTEC USB ADSL modem and aren't sure if this is compatible with linux?

Also, this was more of a theoretic, general question that i was curious about but i've got some good advice here so i'm glad i forgot to mention that. :D

Oh yeah spydrpop i like your sig!

Eonfire,

Only a person who really understands an OS can make it secure. If you don't understand *nix don't kid yourself/be kidded that it is more secure.................it most certainly won't be.

Cheers

Yeah thanks for reminding me nihil, i was just reading one of the threads that are similar to this one and read someone saying that it's not so much the OS as it is the person using it.

I'm glad that you are taking advice readily available to you.

You 'might' be able to get a friend to download a LiveCD or Installation disk for you?
If not, go buy it. These are VERY cheap OS's even if you PAY for them. Also, they are some of the most technologically advanced ones. pretty good combination if you ask me.

Great info by all,

As listed above, if you learn your OS inside and out you can or will learn how to secure them. I prefer Linux, in particular SuSE 8.2 Pro and Slackware and both are pretty secure because I know how to make them fairly secure. And just because I was able to do that, doesn't mean that status will be maintained without further effort. Constant updating, visiting reputable security sites to find out the newest exploits and vulnerabilities etc., is required to keep them that way.

I also like the ole win98se, It's not the only windows I have, just prefer it for my own use at home. Some ask me why on earth do you still use 98se it doesn't have any bells and whistles? I use it at home because it's simplistic and through that there are fewer vulnerabilities and hopefully people will forget it still lives. Shut down any sharing and netbios, have a good firewall, use spyware/adware irradicators, AV, keep it updated, and I feel confident that the cracker would have a hard time getting in.

So you can get a linux distro free to real cheap and you might be able to talk someone out of their old windows 98se.

cheers


edit: Great thread linked below by pooh sun tzu

A solid windows OS is 100% possible.

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=254589

I created a tutorial not too long ago on OS security, and how it isn't the distro, but the admin that makes it all come together and be secure. I suggest checking it out and see if it offers a new light to "which os is more secure?"

To secure Windows to a decent level check out the various hardening standards out there, of which the NSA one is the first I can think of. Also I like Tripwire and similar tools, great way to lock down the OS. Of course no OS is ever going to be fully secure, but yes Windows can be locked down to a high degree. For secure ioperating systems look ar B-level operating systems such as pitbull and trusted Soalris which take secure operating systems to a whole new level (and are usually a pain in the butt to administer because of this).

For trusted Solaris see http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/trustedsolaris/

Pitbull http://www.argus-systems.com/product/faq/2.shtml

and look here http://www.sei.cmu.edu/str/descripti...sted_body.html for a nice desciption of trusted OS's.

oh, and routers can indeed enforce some security (in response to an earlier post) via access control lists and are often a good first line of defence on a network.

Wow thanks everyone this has been a great help.

Just to finish : will linux work with an eTEC USB ADSL, and does anyone have a link to a thread/site that gives good info on what a router does?

I'll be spending a lot of time coming back to the links/info in this thread, again, thanks for the help.

Hey Hey,

I found most of what you said to be very accurate, however I have a few, not really problems, more of disagreements with what you said. I'll work backwards, that way I'm going shortest to longest and also smallest disagreement to biggest.

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#5. For a trojan scanner, which you should also get, try Moosoft's The Cleaner. This works VERY well.

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5) The Cleaner is good but it costs money, only good for a 30-day trial without it. I prefer SwatIt. It was recommended to me for use in the office, and it's served it's purpose well. There's a version you can pay for, but there's also a free version that isn't a trial version. It's available from http://swatit.org/download.html

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#4. For a virus scanner, I would go with Norton AV '04. But seeing as you are nearly broke, you could try Avast, which isn't all that bad.

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4) When going with a free AV.. AVG from www.grisoft.com is the way to go, especially with all the virii that have been floating around lately. Even though AVG is completely free, it's been beating Norton on releasing updates for quite a few of the virii, which in my books makes it rather impressive free software.

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#2. A router simply takes one internet connection, and shares it with other computers located nearby, thus creating a network. Using a router is not a way of making your system, 'more secure' though it certainly can be. I.E. It is not a security tool or anything like that. Google 'linksys' or 'dlink'.

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2) If you think that is all a router does, you have a lot to learn about routers. Routers support ACLs (Access Control Lists) and firewalling (Check out the 800-series cisco routers for a good home example). If you want to stick to home routers (there's a huge difference between something made by dlink or linksys and something made by cisco or nortel), then you still can't say they don't provide security. If I have a router in front of my system and I'm using NAT with no port forwarding and no DMZ setup, you are going to have a hell of a time getting access to my system. A port scan isn't going to reveal anything of interest to you, if you attempt to telnet in the router is going to drop the connection because it doesn't know which computer you are destined for. To take a very old example because I'm tired... I could put a Windows 95 machine vulnerable to WinNuke or a Windows 98 Machine vulnerable to IGMP Nukes on the net and if they are behind the router, your attacks won't be successful. A router is definately not the holy grail of security, but it does provide it's benefits.


As far as your original question Eonfire, it's not a matter of being a good enough hacker and securing a system. It's a matter of knowing that system, that's the only way you are going to be able to successfully secure it. I know many people here have already said that, and there advice is good and sound, but it sounds to me like you have a slightly distorted view of hacking/cracking and computer security. Don't waste your time reading up on computer hacking sites, start learning how your computer works, learn what you can do with it and then push it to do more. Experiment with it. Most of those sites are going to give you a bunch of canned answers and they won't teach you anything. Get a few books, grab a hardware book, any of the books from the Bibles series, the Hacking exposed books. Read those and then explore your computer some more. Ignore the drivel on most of the websites out there and stick to well known, reputible sources. Read AO, read /., read security-forums.com, read packetstorm, read phrack and it's back issues. Then explore your computer some more. Take a network course, and grab an intro to TCP/IP. Read the tutorials on this website, as many as you can. It's all about knowing the right places to look. It's good that you asked this question, now ask more, learn more, thirst for more. Don't stop, just keep going.....

Anyways, it's late and I've probably ranted a bit,

Peace
HT

www.Linuxant.com has drivers for your modem and linux acoording to google (you should search and confirm this). A handy trick with linux is to put what ever hardware you have into google with linux ie etec usb linux and for sure you will find out either way. If you search this site for nat or router or dig through the tutorials section you should find out about routers. If you are interested in learning and have some patience and time linux is for you and can be very rewarding, if not save your pennies and buy winxp. Possibly there is a brit here with an extra linux iso they might want to donate ???? , any fine fellows out there want to help this chap with an iso or two? (i would send you one but you can probably get it faster and easier from your side of the atlantic)

Cheers HTR i'll check out some of those books you listed, i have read several tutorials already but there's so much information that it can get crazy at times trying to put any of it to memory, i'm going through them again though and it's slowly sinking in. I found the Templer tutorail really helpful and that's the one that i remember most of.

Lporridge i'm going to have a look for a modem and already have the files that i need to burn onto a CD, MsMittens has already helped me out with that but thanks anyway.

I will certainly have to check out grisoft's software.

And, (I was aiming for more of a quick explanation of what a router can physically do. He was almost using the term as if it was something you could download.

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routers/sandboxes and my own programs written in C/C++

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and as for me saying they have nothing to do with security.

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though it certainly can be

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But yes, you are correct, I was tired at that point and should have been a little bit more descriptive. For god sakes, just go to http://www.whatis.com and type in router and ur done. No need to start a war.

Woops.

Stop all warmogering now!

I'm clicking on the thread above..........