Sysadmin

OK, so a few weeks ago i was called into the principals office at my school. He procedded to explain to me that he didn't like the shortcuts that I was creating on my H:\ file on the school's network, and he said that if i did it again, my computer rights would be revoked. The shortcuts were being made to internet explorer, hearts, solitare, minsweeper and frecell, the games resided on a "Secret" network drive (O:\). I wasn't being punished for the fact of what i could have done with them. I was being punished because i was able to actually create. That put the impression on me that, " whait a min! why should i be punished if i wasn't supposed to be able to do it in the 1st place". Should I have been punished, and is my reasoning justified? Thanks

Wait.. you were going to be punished for making shortcuts? Wouldn't it have made more sense if they didn't have those programs installed if they didn't want you to use it or limit the user interface? Do they have some type of AUP (Acceptable Use Policy -- what you are allowed to do and what you aren't allowed to do)? If they don't a lawyer could make them very uncomfortable, I suspect.

As for network drive.. can't be that secret if it's on the network. And if you're not supposed to use it then appropriate permissions should have been put in place.

Have you spoken to your parents about this?

Been there Done that
no luck. Yea they have an AUP, it's basiclly, what you can do in you restrcted student access, is allowed. I know it doesn't make sence. And, yes, i have gone to the higher ups about this, nothing, they said " You shouldn't have been doing it" and put it back in the principals hands.
Now laywer though.

Then if they aren't explicitly dening all other activities, how can they say that creating shortcuts is wrong? And if it's "what you can do in your restricted student access", then evidentally you did something that was allowed -- creation of shortcuts -- since there was no technology to "deny" it.

The biggest thing to your advantage is their AUP. If it doesn't have something that disallows playing games (the one area where it would make sense to complain about albeit it a tad picky on things like solitaire etc.) and/or if they haven't proven you've done something explicitly wrong (e.g., broken into their systems, restricted areas, etc.), you could even go as far as a potential slander/libel case, IMHO (and keep in mind I ain't no lawyer). The stigmata of "hacker" can both be good and bad. The bad is that people will assume you are the guilty one even if you are not nearby. And that could have a detrimental affect, again IMO, on your future education.

Oh.. and if you're under a certain age (I know it's 16 here in Ontario) you cannot be held responsible for contract agreements. Your parents must agree. So if your parents were never notified of the AUP, they might have some more leverage (just a random thought depending on your age).

Lawyer would be best way to go.

I would say to consult a lawyer only if the school revokes your computer rights. Until then, it would probably be beneficial to take a more apologetic stand-point. Convincing the principal that you had no malicious intentions, which should be easy judging by what you created shortcuts to, and telling him/her that in the future you will ask about doing things that you are unsure of concerning the AUP should resolve the issue and give the principal a positive attitude towards your actions. Depending on how he/she responds to this, you could then recommend that a more detailed AUP be created. That being said, I don't think the school handled it in the correct manner, but with how political schools can be, it may be detrimental to your school career to place any heat on the principal.

Tell them to get their arses clean slate, and it wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

Honestly though, be careful with the whole matter it's hard going up against a school system. I've tried before and everytime have lost
technically its their computer and if they say you can't use it then you can't (I hope it doesn't come to that though.)

best of luck to you man

If I were your parent I would be extremely disturbed that I was paying for an incompetent who did not know how to secure a network drive.

I would also be very concerned that I was paying for incompetents to play silly games and browse the web for God knows what dubious content, instead of educating my child.

If I found "evidence eliminator", "web washer" or anything like that on the system, it would (to me) be prima faciae evidence that they were a shower of perverts..............why else would it be there? (and the evidence CAN be recovered)

Haven't they even heard of "thick client" (sort of rhymes with "stupid principal" :) ). If you do not want stuff to be generally available just put it on the local C:/D: drives?

You are lucky they didn't catch you playing the worms and gorillas games in NT4.0, or the flight simulator in excel 8.0............boy you would be in big trouble :D

I think a lawyer is required, incompetence should never be permitted to be concealed by aggression?

Just my thoughts (and I am over 50!!!)

Good luck

I'm just going to sluff it off and take the punishment, but i will keep the lawer's number handy :)

What was your punishment?

The same thing happend to me (sort of), my school used novell, I was in 7th grade and started messing with 'Map Network Drive' in windows explorer and found that my so called "personal" drive wasn't so personal, if i mapped (schoolname)_u\ I could see all staff and student "personal" drive folders. They would have permenatly removed me from the computers if they knew I could do this, the next year they finally figured out how to use permissions to block this kind of "accidental" access to files I shouldn't have been able to get to. They never said I word to me about it, they didn't know about it untell someone else started deleting stuff from staff folders.

I think same applies to most of the schools worldwide, the security senario is very disturbing they just do not seem to care about security. every thing is wide open. in our school lab all the games and teacher personal folder were stored in the network drive without even some one caring to at least password protect them any-body could map the network drive and play games from the games folder on the network drive. Anybody cought playing was punished but what was amusing was nobody cared to give security restrictions to it or remove it for god sake. i don't know what's the theory behind it , i guess they think if they play dumb then everybody else will play dumb too. Seriously my openion is money schools don't want to invest money on good network Admins, they don't think it's worth it.

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You are lucky they didn't catch you playing the worms and gorillas games in NT4.0, or the flight simulator in excel 8.0............boy you would be in big trouble

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I played that flight simulation in exel often, sue microsoft for that. :D

Alright, I had this exact same problem in High School.

Mine was more the fact that the computer teachers didnt know how to do it, I am a total newb but they are worse. Basically they said that I couldnt make a shortcut to the games because I would be playing them in class and I am not allowed to shortcut to their private stuff. Whatever, the next day I went and installed the games onto the C:\ of the computer I used. They found out and bought some silly program that activates upon startup and downloads a list of the files needed on the harddrive and deletes what it shouldnt. Solution to this was to just bring the programs in on floppy disks.


Theres a way around everything, and if they dont give you specific instructions not to do the two things I listed above then they can't punish you. The school system is pretty messed up, althought some teachers, MSMITTENS! are amazing probably :)

Just sit through high school, whatever your in, get through it and then start living your life.

DaP

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Originally posted here by muert0
What was your punishment?

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3 dentitions. Yes, i know, it sux. whatever. *shrug*

still, i'd just have the lawyer come in and have a "little talk" with your princiipal. 10 to 1 says it would scare the $h!t out of him and take back your detentions, and let you keep your shortcuts.


slick

so you are suggesting for him to waste his money on a lawyer because he doesnt like the detentions? Why not call the feds to storm the school and point a gun at the principal's head because he gave you detention for creating some shortcuts. Some members gave you some really good advice, and some of it was nonsense (not yours in particular slick).

My advice on this: go talk to your principal and explain the sittuation. What i would have done is place the shortcuts inside a folder somewhere in the HD for my own use, instead of making them open for everyone to see.

I feel your pain Coder365...
Unfortunately, (most) humans are like this, they're afraid of what they don't understand, and the older the humans, the more likely they don't understand computers.

If it's any comfort to anyone, not *all* schools are like this, and if you were in the school I admin, this wouldn't have happend, in part because students can't make shortcuts on their desktops ;), but also because I'd have been on your side if something innocent like this were to occure.

Back to your case, maybe you could write about your story in a local newspaper or such to get you some support...

In any ways, I think you should push to the direction (maybe having your parents do this might be better) that the AUP MUST be more detailed and explicit if they (and this really goes for both sides) don't want this to happen in the future.

As it is now, noone (besides you) in the student body is aware that making shortcuts is forbidden (no matter how stupid this is), and that their AUP, in its current state, has NO legal value at all as it is so vague. This means that if something serious really happens, their legal options would be seriously compromised/limited. This might sound counterproductive to you, but at least a detailed AUP sets clear boundaries and gives you (and all other students) written "grounds" to argue on.

Ammo

The same thing all most happened at our school. A kid was caught "hacking" (as the school corp. likes to say), but honestly he did no harm. The first time he was caught they just gave him a saturday school. But he was stupid to do it again, only this time he downloaded a version of yahoo messenger, not that i havent, For this they gave him 3 days of oss, which i though was crap because every time students does something like this it makes the sysadmin get better at his job, you only learn from mistakes. I honestly would talk to the sysadmin and see what he thinks of this (assuming the principal knew, he doesnt want to have to resecure the system) but you never know, he might want you to find flaws in the system so they can get them fixed before someone that wants to do harm can get to them. At our school last year we had a kid that did just that, he would spend a class period just looking for backdoors.

Coder you did the right thing man. Fighting the system isn't a good thing.... even if you win you have to still be a part of the system afterwards.. don't burn bridges.

3 detentions isn't too bad. I'm glad you still have comp privelages.

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Originally posted here by chris460
The same thing all most happened at our school. A kid was caught "hacking" (as the school corp. likes to say), but honestly he did no harm. The first time he was caught they just gave him a saturday school. But he was stupid to do it again, only this time he downloaded a version of yahoo messenger, not that i havent, For this they gave him 3 days of oss, which i though was crap because every time students does something like this it makes the sysadmin get better at his job, you only learn from mistakes. I honestly would talk to the sysadmin and see what he thinks of this (assuming the principal knew, he doesnt want to have to resecure the system) but you never know, he might want you to find flaws in the system so they can get them fixed before someone that wants to do harm can get to them. At our school last year we had a kid that did just that, he would spend a class period just looking for backdoors.

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sigh, let me put it this way... what your saying is we should let him get away with it because it helps the admin learn.... RIGHT.

Ok, when someone breaks into your house, I want you to let them go, and learn from the way they broke your lock...

Or when someone smashes your window, dont press charges, learn what they used to do it...

Or if someone raped a family member,.... etc etc etc

Rules are rules, no matter how silly they seem to you. The admins of the schools are doing what the school wants done. Dont like it? dont use THIER computers!

I must admit I find it a bit extreme to be hauled up in front of the principle straight away. It is a bit like the go to jail card in monopoly. You know: go straight to jail do not pass go etc. I would think that it was for your computer professor to talk with you in the first place or even the school admin. Also IMHO the punishment should fit the crime. Three days seems a bit steep.
I reckon that the problem may have come from the fact you created links that were usable by other students. Then one of them got caught playing in the middle of a class and just said well the icons were already there. The powers that be then over reacted saying if he is doing this then what else has he been doing. It is even worst if the person who is in charge of the system is not as competent as they should be.
If the security on your school network is as bad as it sounds you might make some brownie points by making suggestions on how it can be improved. If you are really lucky or unlucky they might even let you make a project out of it. The main problem you may have is how to make the suggestions so they get listen to.

I know my sysadmin is a well..*chooses words carefully* quiet. If you will ( I won't go into any more detail at this time for fear of being "politiclly incorrect") ('Sides, my schools network is groosly insuecure and I'm hoping the url in the logs will get his attentition :))