So he DID know beforehand......

It seems that GWB got a memo 8/6/01 that informed him that Al-Quaida had a support system in place, operatives in the country and was planning an attack or a hijacking. Admittedly, 30 days is not much warning, but it was STILL time enough to tighten the security and potentially save a lot of lives. I think the old boy blundered big-time on this one.

Read it here.



Think about it....you know they're here because you know who some of them are. Airports should have had a photo of every known terrorist with orders to put security check points in place. I don't really want to start a war on racial profiling here, but in this case it may well have stopped a tragedy. An exam of that particular flavor of humans in the 18 to 35 age group might have made a difference.

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Airports should have had a photo of every known terrorist with orders to put security check points in place. I don't really want to start a war on racial profiling here, but in this case it may well have stopped a tragedy. An exam of that particular flavor of humans in the 18 to 35 age group might have made a difference.

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I agree that they should be searching for known terrorists but racial profiling is just plain shitty, i don't mean any hostility, but imagine running to your flight, and suddenly you're being searched, because you are ****. Fill in the blank, it really doesn't matter what you are, because you're being searched because of the color of your skin, not your personal history or present actions. Anyone can do anything, it doesn't matter their race

Well, when did they come into the country and put this all in place? 32 days before 9/11? I think not. It's easy to **** on the president now, but things like that don't happen over night, nor does the planning happen over night.

This stuff has been going on for years before the current administration... let's spread the blame evenly.

The guy that resigned was there for Clinton as well there for his action during Clintons would not be interupted when it changed to GWB. I think it is his fault and will always be his fault even if he does not accept it.

-Cheers-

You're right groovicus....there is plenty of blame to go around.....bin laden and his cronies were making trouble as far back as the Carter administration. I'd just like to hear someone clear up just WHEN the administration KNEW something was going on.

hidden...I'm not condoning racial profiling on a broad basis. However, if there is a known threat, as was the case here then take the steps that need to be taken. In this case we had arab men of a certain age demographic, who had spent time in certain countries that posed a threat. I'm not saying it would have made a difference, but then again I'd rather have to deal with a pissed off US-based arab community than to watch those planes hit those buildings again.

I hope you don't think I was picking on you specifically allenb1963, because I wasn't. In this case, I fail to see where finding fault does any good.... people died, people are still dying, people will continue to die....I think one of our shortcomings as a nation is that we can't get past the blame. The time for blame is over, the time to act is now, I think George Bush recognizes this, as do many other countries....

As Coni Rice said (paraphrasing) "We have to be right 100% of the time, the terrorists only have to be right once...." (lol..she makes Hillary look like a retard)

My personal opinion is that if I don't make a few mistakes a day, then I am not trying hard enough to extend myself... but then again, I am not responsible for peoples lives either (at least not in life or death situations)

I don't envy anybody that is involved in national security...mess up once and your ass gets handed to you on a platter... and it's not just a matter of trying to guess what is going to happen in the next year, or decade. Try figuring out what kind of threats we are going to face in 50 years when all the mideast countries run out of oil (or 100 years, whatever)... what the hell are they going to do for income then? My guess is invade some other country that has some exploitable natural resources....

As far as 9/11 goes, who on earth could ever guess that some ****-knockers would hijack commercial airliners and crash them into buildings? I think if someone told me that was going to happen, I'd be inclined to ask them what they were smoking.....

The thing is that all the memos I have ever seen mentioned in the media (including this one) supposedly alerting senior figures within the Government to September 11th are very sketchy in details. They mention possible attacks, but no specific dates, places or people. Now, had the security services deliberately ignored a letter that said "These members of al-Quieda are going to attack the Twin Towers via a plane on September 11th" then I could see them being blamed for not reacting. However, as far as I am aware from what I have read in the media (and I presume most people here only have the media to go on) no specifics were given so you can't blame anyone for not acting to stop these terrorists.

As for tightening security, you have to be very careful how you go about doing that if you're taking a pro-active rather than a re-active stance. Too much security and you send people into a panic and therefore effectively do the terrorists' job for them, albeit with less loss of life.

The memo mentions Bin Laden planning to hijack planes in the United States. I think that was enough information to keep the CIA, FAA and the Immigration Department with their eyes wide opened. I also doubt that these agencies require some sort of pre authorization from the President to do their jobs as they were suppost to. For example, how they allowed one of the hijackers who had previous trouble with the Immigration back in this country beats the hell out of me. And again, this is not something you call the National Security about. I think most government workers/public servants, don't give a rat about their jobs. They just want a paycheck , job security and early retirement. All they really care about is some dumb annual evaluation given by an immediate supervisor who they're usually good friends with. People tend to ignore things such as possibilities of disasters because it takes them too far from their routine. It's a complicated concept to grasp. Take for instance the subject of AIDS. Most people don't believe they're at risk. Another example, on 9/11, while the towers were burning. Nobody thought those buildings would fall. Nobody thought America could be so vulnerable, and yet we were and still are.

Er... we were and still are quite vulnerable; not to an invading army, but to our president. Even if 9/11 was not completely counterable as many of you suggest pointing fingers does nothing. This will solve nothing, there is no reason to blame anybody anymore. The issues now are things that were passed as a direct result of this that piss on the Constitution like Patriot Act I and II.

-Cheers-

You also have to bear in mind that you can guarantee that Bush was told.... "this is what is going on, don't worry we're handling it Boss". What would Bush himself be expected to do, go out to all the airports and screen everyone himself????

The whole subject is ludicrous, especially when you realize it is only being done to try to gain political advantage..... :rolleyes:

The other thing you have to remember (which Tiger Shark touched upon) is that the information given to the President (whoever happens to be holding the post at the time - and this applies to other world leaders as well) was in a highly condensed form, probably edited to fit on one page. He would not have got the full information, because it's just not possible. Could you imagine what would happen if a leader of a country received every piece of paperwork produced by one department (e.g. the Foreign Office, or whatever the US equivalent is)? They wouldn't be able to take it all in - hence why they have advisors, deputies, heads of departments etc. to do this for them. The last person who is likely to know what is going on in the White House/Congress/the Senate is the President - he has a million other things to worry about.

Now I don't normally defend George Bush (or America to be honest) but I think in this situation he is being blamed (as are his top advisors) for something they may have known next to nothing about. American media is too quick to point the finger at someone, and this is being used by the Democrats to push whoever they're putting up for election (John Kerry last time I checked). When a group of terrorists bombed a Spanish train station in the early hours of the morning, you didn't see everyone turning round to the government there saying "you should have known about this - it's all your fault, why didn't you do something about it?" - and if they did it certainly wasn't blown out of proportion (ok so there was a backlash in the general election a couple of days later, but that's to be expected following such an event - people have their views altered temporarily in the face of tragedy).

I can see September 11th becoming like Bloody Sunday is over here - a tragedy that happened several years ago but no-one wants to drop the subject until someone carries the can for the event. So far Bloody Sunday has cost over £250 million - mostly in legal fees - do you really want that amount of your taxes wasted trying to blame someone for September 11th?

This isn't a new phenomenon.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p35_Weir.html
:cool:

Tru dat rcgreen.

-Cheers-

Terrorists, sorry "politically motivated murderers" have been PLANNING on hijacking US planes since the 60's and certainly planning on destroying the World Trade Center since the 80s. What's new?

RoadClosed: I think whats new is taht we stoped ooking for them from 2000 to sept 11 2001, why was the cole investigation stoped? we where so close to getting these guys before 9/11 (had one in custady, higherups orderd his release.)why did we stop all investigations and ignore all warrnings (sorry memos with "warrning" slaped on the top that where not warrnings.)?

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16 Mar 2004 13:40:23 GMT
Yemen says arrests suspect in USS Cole bombing
SANAA, March 16 (Reuters) - Yemen has arrested a suspected militant wanted over the 2000 bomb attack that killed 17 sailors aboard the USS Cole in the port of Aden, an official Web site said on Tuesday.

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found here: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L16256538.htm
also: http://us.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/03/20/arrests.yemen/

Is this the Cole investigation are you talking about? :D I will admit I don't remember hearing anything about the ten or so susects (depending on which newspaper you read) that escaped from jail, but I found plenty of resources that indicated arrests were being made right up to the point they all escaped in April of 2003....

Look further into the cole incident...we had the suspects before 2001, but we ended the investagation...it wasnt untill after 9/11 that we picked it back up...the ywould have led us to the 9/11 hijackers. the masterminds where one and the same. Look int othe froonline epasode "the man who knew" ran right after 9/11...we should have had the basterds before they could crash planes into anything, but the new administration cut antiterror funding in favor of missle defense.

Uhm, if I may throw in my 3 dimes. As much as I don't like Bush, there isn't much he could've been able to do anyways given the information and time he was given. Yes, the memo was that Bin Laden was going to Hijack planes. And? The white house recieves probably a MILLION threats a week or they recieve a memo of some sort. Same way that school's USED to react to a "whisper" that their might be a shooting before Columbine. It takes something like 9/11 (or Columbine) for people to take threat's seriously..

As for the blame? You'd have to go back atleast 10 years worth of people to blame for that. Interestingly enough, I've noticed Bin Laden spends quite some time in the planning of his attacks. 93' WTC attack - '96 - '99 - '01. So it's usually over a spread of 2-3 year's.

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This isn't a new phenomenon.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p35_Weir.html

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^Word.. :)

i heard tonight that NORAD was training for planes being hi-jacked and used as weapons but they were planning for the hi-jacking of forign aircract flown into the US.

what would critics be saying about bush or clinton if they were able (no one would have allowed it before) to put measures in place that could have prevented 911. they'd be calling him a paranoid nut trying to create a nazi state. what if bush had invaded afganistan before hand and 911 never happened...every anti-us butt hole in the world, including some...no allot of our own citizens, would be screaming for him to be arrested. no one knew what would happen before hand but OBL's crew. OBL is the only one to blame. the american people litteraly needed a bomb to fall on them before they would allow any action. if OBL were brought to trial in the US, with the evidence we have against him for 911 i think he'd walk. we have more evidence against saddam and look at the worlds reaction to capturing him.

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
i heard tonight that NORAD was training for planes being hi-jacked and used as weapons but they were planning for the hi-jacking of forign aircract flown into the US.

what would critics be saying about bush or clinton if they were able (no one would have allowed it before) to put measures in place that could have prevented 911. they'd be calling him a paranoid nut trying to create a nazi state. what if bush had invaded afganistan before hand and 911 never happened...every anti-us butt hole in the world, including some...no allot of our own citizens, would be screaming for him to be arrested. no one knew what would happen before hand but OBL's crew. OBL is the only one to blame. the american people litteraly needed a bomb to fall on them before they would allow any action. if OBL were brought to trial in the US, with the evidence we have against him for 911 i think he'd walk. we have more evidence against saddam and look at the worlds reaction to capturing him.

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Hrmm, really good post Tedob. I agree about the paranoid nut trying to create a nazi state thing, but they wouldn't be saying that if he had said to people "Look, we got a credible threat some shyt's about to go down". LOL :D I mean if Bush and his admin would've given even a small warning or let a little out to the press that they have something fishy going on around that time, then the public mighta reacted the way it should. They would be more cautious because like most say "It's better to be safe then sorry".. damn right :)