Speaking of Presidents...

I involved myself a short time ago in this thread. I suppose I came across with passive/liberal sort of attitude to spark some interest and kind of hijacked moxnix's thread. For this I do apologize.

Let me start this with a fresh thread and modify the topic a bit. I am truely interested in everyones opinions about this subject, and/or my apparent hijack attempt on a fellow member's topic. :p

The topics challenge is:

Who (in your personal opinion) was the worst president in the history of the United States, and why you feel this way. Please supply us with some links to facts that support your views. In moxnix's thread I was given multiple presidents and reasons, this is ok, please list them in order of what you believe to be the "worst" first.

Even if you are not a citizen of the US please contribute your views as well. I would think this might prove to be an interesting thread with enough input from AO's members.

King George the Third?

1776 and all that?

Thomas Jefferson is the finest..................I collect his effigies ( purely for worship my nice IRS colleagues :D )

They are on all "nice" banknotes


:cool:

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King George the Third?

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Was he a president? LOL

I suppose he could be considered our first ruler, but we had other names for him than president. :D

Sorry AE~

We Anglo-Irish have no great love for the Hanoverians either :D

At least I married a great niece of Michael Collins....but it wasn't that which attracted me in the first place :D

Thomas Jefferson rules.......if you hate him, please send me all banknotes that you find with his effigy on............

(AE.......I will cut you in mate :) )

Of all time?? I couldn't even guess, since they rewrite history constantly.

Now during my lifetime, yes I have one I dispise more than any other and that would be Eisenhower.

I became politically aware durning his terms of office, and even did a paper on him for some class or other. I call him the do-nothing president. For eight years he was just a figurehead. He played alot of golf. Got sick alot, when he wasn't taking a vacation, or time off.

His lack of action, is still plagueing us today, overt 50 years after his 8 years of doing nothing at all.

Edit----> Now, I bet none of you were expecting that one.

G. Ford in my politically aware life time.

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Originally posted here by nihil
Sorry AE~

We Anglo-Irish have no great love for the Hanoverians either :D

At least I married a great niece of Michael Collins....but it wasn't that which attracted me in the first place :D

Thomas Jefferson rules.......if you hate him, please send me all banknotes that you find with his effigy on............

(AE.......I will cut you in mate :) )

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w00t! w00t! w00t!
3 w00ts for Thomas Jefferson!

Thanks for the cut nihil

IMO it would have to be George W. Bush Senior because of the fact the he broke the record of the biggest debt by one single country and now George W. Bush Junior might want to break that record as well. What are they having competitions? I can't tell the other presidents because I don't read up on presidents don't find it all that interesting (Except for the 1st president [YES I forgot his name...sue me])

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Originally posted here by Raion
IMO it would have to be George W. Bush Senior because of the fact the he broke the record of the biggest debt by one single country and now George W. Bush Junior might want to break that record as well. What are they having competitions? I can't tell the other presidents because I don't read up on presidents don't find it all that interesting (Except for the 1st president [YES I forgot his name...sue me])

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Jimmy Carter - If it were not for the social programs and hand outs that we gave to everyone that was too lazy , then Bush Senior would not have had such a large deficite to deal with. The whole general concept of making people dependent upon the government by giving out free food, clothing, medicine, day care, and shelter until their pathetic parasitic lives are over, is wrong and unjust. Yes there are individuals that legitimately need this type of help, howevere the majority of individuals on welfare and getting a free check from the government are perfectly capable of learning an obtaining a job that would support themselves or their family. I would rather pay a deficit that was encurred by a war to defend my freedom, than to pay a deficit that can attributed to the rising number of freeloaders that have a free government ride.

What's their excuse now then? George W. Bush Junior is also facing a big debt because he decided to go into war with Iraq & Afganistan for no good reason because all this could do i cause more terrorism as it already has. After 9/11 there two trains collided with explosives inside (this same incident happened again somewhere else), a president was killed. So all he is causing is more terrorism so I don't see the point in it.

Arguments against the Iraq war have some merit. I would challenge the same in regards to Al Quida and Afganistan.

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What's their excuse now then? George W. Bush Junior is also facing a big debt because he decided to go into war with Iraq & Afganistan for no good reason because all this could do i cause more terrorism as it already has. After 9/11 there two trains collided with explosives inside (this same incident happened again somewhere else), a president was killed. So all he is causing is more terrorism so I don't see the point in it.

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Thats the most ignorant comment i've seen so far....we went to war with afghanistan to destroy Al Quada and the Taliban regime, revenge, Justice. We went to war with Iraq to get rid of Saddam, and because of "suspicion" of WMDs....

How can you not see the point????At least for Afghanistan...there have always been terrorists attacks around the world...assuming that every terrorist attacks that happens now is because of bush...is just stupid.

Alright they caught Sadam Hussien..yay! (Sarcasm). At what cost? Billions and billions of USD and plenty of US soilders for what? To catch one single person who most likely has someone who he has tought everything to just in case this had happened. Don't you think he anticipated this happenining? Did you not see what happened to that poor poor man in that video Iraq soilders relased? They cut off his head and raised it in the air. Now do you think that if the U.S. would've minded their own buisness this would happen? No.

The US was, pretty much, minding it's own business on September 11th 2001.....

I guess placing your head firmly in the sand and hoping all those nasty people that have attacked US interests and miltary establishments overseas for years is the answer....... They'll leave us alone if we are nice and apologize to them at every turn......

America _began_ the process of either growing up and accepting the responsibilities of being the world's most powerful nation or stumbling headlong into the pile of "great civilisations that failed" on that day.....

Where do you want to be in 20 years?

Raion: Any idea what September 11th cost the world financially? Probably not.....

Keep that head in the sand son..... Your a$$ sticking up in the air will look cute when they come for you...... Grit your teeth......

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Raion: Any idea what September 11th cost the world financially? Probably not.....

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I'd guess close to a trillion? give or take a few billion?


Raion, those soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a good cause...a great cause, too bad you do not see it. Instead of spitting on them, try to show some support. Those 700+ lives that those soldiers lost, it was worth it for the cause, blessed be their souls. They gave their life for this...the least we can do is show some respect. They didn't do it for Bush...or for Oil...There was a good reason why we went to war with Iraq.

To clear something for you, Iraq did have banned weapons...Long range missiles posing a threat to the neighboring countries. WMDs haven't been found YET. They'll come out...we know they're there. Iraq's own officials said they had em...EVEN John Kerry said we had them and that Saddam was consantly trying to get more WMDs...Lets not even get on this subject again.

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Jimmy Carter - If it were not for the social programs and hand outs that we gave to everyone that was too lazy , then Bush Senior would not have had such a large deficite to deal with.

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Yeah, because Reagan didn't have to deal with it, nor did he contribute to any 'deficits' that Bush Sr. had to deal with...or did we forget about him :p

You just rewrote eight years of history..

Carter would have to be one of the worst presidents in the last 50 years, leaving Reagan with double-digit inflation at the end of his presidency. Reaganomics dealt with that. The resulting deficit was not so much because of Reagan's tax cut, rather the huge amount of entitlement spending the Democrats in Congress forced on America. The solution to a large deficit is not to raise taxes, rather to cut spending, which is where Bush Sr. failed.

Well, this country was very affected by Sept. 11 because it relys on the U.S. for a lot of things and the war in Iraq really didn't help us at all.

I would put bush Sr as the worst president of the states. I cant remeber any real initive of his own during his term. As far as i can remember all he done was finish up the policies started by Reagan. But then i was not really into forigen politics at the time.
As for the best in recent times I would put Clinton as my top choice. If only because he had some idea what international politics was.

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Originally posted here by MURACU
I would put bush Sr as the worst president of the states. I cant remeber any real initive of his own during his term. As far as i can remember all he done was finish up the policies started by Reagan. But then i was not really into forigen politics at the time.
As for the best in recent times I would put Clinton as my top choice. If only because he had some idea what international politics was.

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Since you are residing in Paris, I suppose I should make some allowance for your viewpoint being skewed.......Naaaah! Give some examples of Clinton's puported "idea what international politics was." Are you referring to using the U.S. military to distract from his legal woes, or are you speaking about giving away U.S. nuclear and communications secrets, or wait perhaps you are referencing the troops that were sent to Bosnia where no threat to the U.S. existed, then again you might be talking about the concessions he made to Korea to keep from having to deal with the problem.

Clinton "THE GREAT INTERNATIONAL POLITICIAN!" In your dreams! The only great things Clinton accomplished was too get regular "minstrations" from Lewenski and to redefine, within the judicial system, what the word 'IS" is.

Overdue,
I'd like to see how you can say my view point is skewed. It is true I probably have a less biased view point than you.
As for my reasons Clinton done more for the international opinion of the united States than any of the more recent presidents. Wheather it was just good PR people or not he gave the impression of knowing what was going on in the world. As for a couple of examples that are worth something for non Americains.
Why is bosnia bad international politics? For me that is one of the better things the US army has done in a long time.
The middle east came the closest it ever had to a peace settlement between Isreal and the palastine. It got so quiet that the UN was able to pull out the peace keeping force that was policing the lebenon border. I remember that well as it was Irish troops that were holding thoses positions for the passed 20 - 30 years.
He put his weight behind a serious peace process in Northern Ireland which is still holding and moving forward even if it has slowed a bit in recent times.
anyway thats my point of view skewed or not.

Clinton was a decent president. I rank him 3rd in my life time. Sure he pissed me off all the time with his BS that distracted more important things, but he wasn't bad. I credit him for many things and discredit him for other foreign actions. And absolutely loath him for critisizing crap he could of fixed. It's like the sys admin that leaves a company then bitches about how bad the network is and how insecure he left things. of course I am not going into detail since it's been beat to death here in Cosmos. The friggin problem is, people can't see past their noses and get over their bias of either party and get all bent out of shape about every little morsel they can bite off someone. Or anything that is fed to their mind the someone looks like it supports their view. Alot of people hate Bush Sr. because he started the first gulf war. Nothing else matters to them not even circumstance.

Can I hijack this thread now? I have been around a while and in my opinion based on issues and speeches, the democratic party has the WORST candidate I have ever seen. And don't even start a reply if you haven't looked at his web site, listened to his speeches and asked some serious questions about what his policy will be. Or just ignore me since this is about presidential short comings. Oh and Muracu, I know you are running from your own point of view and historical lifetime, ever heard of Gerald Ford? Pobably not he's one of "those" presidents lost in history.

Murachu, I misspoke slightly there. You are right about Bosnia being a good International Political stage. Seeing as how we still have troops in Bosnia and both sides are still at each other's throughts, all be it with nowhere near the ferocity of previous hostilities, and the UN is still there trying to figure out how to handle the issues; Bosnia is much closer to a "vietnam" scenario in my book, than the current Iraq war. This is because there is no direction or clear course of action in Bosnia.

As far as the Isreal & Palestine ordeal. In my opinion there are only three reasons that fighting declines where terrorism is concerned.

1. Are tired of fighting and actually want to see peace for their children's sake. (Ireland of Present)
2. Need time to re-group and re-arm.
3. Dead as a doorknobs.

Road - I've seen the website and well ... how can you put it in to words when all of the words contradict each other.

I disagree with you about Clinton being a great President though. Complacency does not breed a great President. I rank Carter higher than Clinton in my book, because Carter stood for his principles and tried to make a difference. I shudder remembering those days, but I cannot fault Carter for believing in his policies and standing on his given word.

My question for kerry:

What is his aproach to Terrorism, and the long term fight againts it? Does he have a concrete plan to fight Terrorism? All i've heard from him lately is him trying to explain how he did not throw his medals away during Vietnam....and thats it....We know that if he becomes president he won't pull the troops from Iraq...he said it himself...but I'd really wanna know about the future of the war againts Terrorism?


As for Clinton, I appreciate what he did for the Ethnic Albanians in Kosovo when they were being murdered by the Serbs...preventing a Genocide.

I believe Woodrow Wilson was the worst president this country has ever seen. Under his administration he segregated federal employees, personally vetoed a clause in the League of Nations charter calling for racial equality and had more race riots under his administration than any other president.

http://www.pressroom.com/~afrimale/wilson.htm
http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/db1b.html
http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/resour...race_riots.pdf

In 1918 American troops were sent to Russia under the pretense of reopening the Eastern Front but they spent their time fighting Bolsheviks instead. They remained until June of 1919, long after the end of World War I. This incident, in my opinion, laid the framework for the Cold War.

http://www.umich.edu/~bhl/bhl/mhchome/polarb.htm

After the United States entered World War I it became illegal to speak out against the war under the Espionage Act. People were arrested and imprisoned for their opinions.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWespionage.htm

Man I like stirring up a good convo.... :D

Amishtechie, Thank you for your contribution, your post is exactly what I had in mind.

Of course I knew there would be some mud slinging going on in this thread, Bravo! I like a bit of turmoil in my threads. Adds excitement.

Thank all of you and keep it up, I have really enjoyed the incites <-- as in riot ;) "insights" you have brought to us here. Don't be afraid to post your thoughts... its all good.