Windows will continue to rule.......

This isn't intended to cause a "my OS os better than yours :p " argument..... It's my observations as someone who tried to run a linux install some 5 or 6 years ago, gave up, stuck with Windows, but that seriously want's to use linix for it's better support of security related tools.

I'll put my "personal" thought's in square brackets.....

So... I order my shiny new Redhat Linix Fedora Core Bible... Maybe it was the wrong one to order.... But there's a gazillion flavors out there... who would know? [There's really only WinXP/Pro available to the masses].

I eagerly unpack it and decide, having read the system requirements detailed in the book that to run the GUI, [Granny isn't going to start learning to type and, frankly, till I get used to it, I'm figuring the GUI will fit my "windows" mindset], that the "less than cutting edge" laptop I wanted to use it on, (that Linux exponents say runs on less "adequate" hardware), just isn't going to cut it. [In fact, they are basically the same as an efficient XP install - shock].

Ok, no problem, I understand dual boot, partitions etc. I'll repartition and dual boot it on my spanking new Dell Inspiron 1100 with the 2.4G pentium 4 and 512Mb Ram.... That should "kill it". The install was actually not very painful and it didn't screw up my WinXP load.... Yay... ;)

Well.... Now the problems start..... First, the damn thing won't show me more than 640x480 screen on a nice 15" monitor.... Bummer trying to work on an 8x5 screen. The problem here is that I am also in my satellite office - wireless... I don't know how to access the NTFS partition where I can download the fix so I have to wait till I get back to work and hope that it really does recognize the eth0 and conect me to the sites I need. [If it doesn't then I'm screwed, I don't have a floppy on here that it does try to mount and I'm not skilled in mounting a "homemade" CD.... my problem? Of course... But I'm coming from a noob POV here].

Well, I get back to work and, fortunately, the eth0 really does work..... Well, if I don't use DHCP which my network is perfectly well set up to provide..... I think I actually caused a conflict.... Unfortunately, being the linux noob I am, I have no idea how to find my IP address - yeah, Gnome gives me my DNS servers etc. but not my IP..... [Thats deeper than granny could go..... but it was a source of frustration]. Well.... I set my IP as fixed and it worked. I d/led the RPM, double clicked it and waited....This isn't a slow box.... well... it isn't in XP.... Some 15 seconds later it reacts..... after my thoughts of "well, you can't just double click an rpm".... [ok... it isn't "optimized".... but it isn't fast..... It's slower than my XP load.... Much slower.... Noticed it on several things including boot]

So now it fills the screen.... "Magic" thinks me, now I can work..... Well.... my real job calls so I find myself back at that satellite office... wireless again.... Now this isn't an uncommon wireless card, (Linksys WPC54g), there has to be some support out there for it just like there was for the Dell monitor issue....(the Linksys driver disk doesn't have any Linux drivers... period....) [still have the problem that I can't access the NTFS partition from the Fedora load but I can't access the net from anything but the NTFS partition.... Can we say, rock and hard place].... I search around and find that I have to purchase a driverloader from linuxant.com to be able to run my wireless card. [So much for "free" and "open source"]

So..... Now I have to go back to work to get the eth0 up so I can pay for something to make my card work so that I can begin to play with this thing and dl all the things I need to make it do what I want to do during the time I can spare the most to do it......

I've had it two days.... and I have had _no_ benefit.... I have had a few "aw shitz"... funnily enough I formatted the drive and installed XP from scratch.... It ran perfectly and I only needed the linksys CD to run up the wireless card. I'm sure that there are many out there that could overcome my problems..... But you know the OS.... I'm a noob.... I know nothing of the file structure etc. etc. and how to access them... I can't even get to my keyfob.... XP shows it to me immediately...... That would have really helped...... :rolleyes:

That's why windows will continue to rule..... people who know nothing can make it do what they want it to do.... I understand how the bloody thing works..... but I can't make it work without jumping through hoops even though I have a pretty detailed knowledge of the principles that it works on.....

PS: I WILL BEAT THIS POS.... IT"S ONLY A COMPUTER!!!!!!

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That's why windows will continue to rule..... people who know nothing can make it do what they want it to do.

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Exactly! it is the GUI bit and compatibility that are the issues. A total beginner can get hold of a Windows box and be productive in a very short time. The same can be said of AppleMacs.

I have just started experimenting with Linspire (Lindows). It certainly seems to address a lot of the problems that "off the shelf" users have traditionally had with Linux, although I believe that recent distros are rapidly improving their GUIs.

I also think that there is a vastly larger population of people with a working knowledge of Windows, and not so many for linux. In my local pub, for example there are probably half a dozen or more people who can use windows and have a reasonable knowledge, at least from the user viewpoint. I am afraid that the same cannot be said of *nix, so there is still the factor of the "herd instinct"

OK, I agree that Linux distros are becoming more resource demanding, presumably because of the enhanced GUIs, but just look at the development of DOS and Windows..........the story is the same.

It will be interesting to see the effect of Longhorn on the market....................the specs are horrendous :eek:

Linux has to be somewhat harder than Windows. It's only Linux being fair. With all the worms and virii Windows users put up with it would give Linux to much of an advantage if it was the same.

Besides, when you start learning how Linux runs, it starts to make sence.

Whoever wrote this doesn't seem to really want to do much but use Windows anwyay, so let them use it.

Tiger Shark, I see where you are comming from. A few things though. Granny is not going to have to install windows, it is already done for her. If linux was installed for her, there should be no real differences. My parents can use windows, but if they have any, and I mean any problems, they call me. There are over 100 distributions of linux, probably one of those will work in gui on the laptop.
Some linux lovers(zealots) want linux to rule the desktop. Others don't care if linux is well received, they just want it to do what it was made for(whatever that might be).
Windows(dos) has been around longer, so you will know it better. How long has it taken you to learn windows(dos). It will take people awhile to learn linux. Some people will want to learn and maybe alot of people will not.
I knew nothing of linux and enough about windows to hurt myself, about 2 years ago. I bought Red Hat 7.3 from a store, took it home and 45 minutes later, it was up and running, just like windows. Blind luck, but it was no problem.
You know, I have said it before and I will say it again, to each his own. Use what you are comfortable with, whether it is windows, linux, macs, unix, etc., whatever.
Enough babbling.
And no flames meant.

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Originally posted here by devpon
Tiger Shark, I see where you are comming from. A few things though. Granny is not going to have to install windows, it is already done for her. If linux was installed for her, there should be no real differences.

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Very true. How many home users do you know that have ever installed an OS?

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they just want it to do what it was made for(whatever that might be).

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It was made to be an OS. It does that well.

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Windows(dos) has been around longer, so you will know it better.

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Actually, if you want to be technical, Linux is based on UNIX, and works almost the same. UNIX has been around... Hmm, 1968 - 2004, 36 years. So people who used UNIX in those days will find Linux easier.

I'm not trying to kick you in the balls, but it all comes down to what we learned first. Most people started using a computer with Windows or Mac OS, so they will find it easier to use something similar.

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How long has it taken you to learn windows(dos).

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I learned Windows in about 2 months. I had no manuals though either, and sat up each night toying with it until I figured it out. DOS took me about a month. I know DOS well.

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It will take people awhile to learn linux.

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I've been using it a little over a year. I'm pretty good, and can get around with or without X. Then again I don't mind learning it either.

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You know, I have said it before and I will say it again, to each his own. Use what you are comfortable with, whether it is windows, linux, macs, unix, etc., whatever.
Enough babbling.
And no flames meant.

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I can agree with that. Personally, I use everything I can.

I would suggest that if you gave granny 2 identical laptops with blank HD's, the CD-ROM set to boot and bootable CD's and said put the CD in the slot, turn on the PC and follow the "instructions" she has a far higher chance of having a successful load with Windows simply because the support for almost everything is already built in.

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Whoever wrote this doesn't seem to really want to do much but use Windows anwyay, so let them use it.

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Er, I said right at the top that "I want to use " Linux.... There are clear advantages from my POV.... I've been using Windows for bloody years..... Yes it can still be challenging....

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Most people started using a computer with Windows or Mac OS, so they will find it easier to use something similar

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My first encounter with a computer was back in 1974(?) in school when we used to write programs and send them to Oxford University to have them punch carded and run. I taught myself Assembly on the Z80 chip back in 1982 because the Sinclair Basic, (while being a wonderful programming medium), took up too much space....

My point and the point of this thread was twofold..... I needed to vent a little.... :( I am far from a noob with computer technology, I have a damned good understanding of how they work. I have spent many years jumping through hoops to make things work...... So imagine my frustration when things don't work and, (while no-where near as bad), it seems that it is barely easier to get linux functioning properly today than it was 5-6 years ago.

I will continue to "document" my likes and dislikes, frustrations and "victories" in this thread.... It will be an interesting "diary" and it may help others too..... As I said... It's only a computer, I will beat it..... Into submission if necessary..... ;)

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Well.... Now the problems start..... First, the damn thing won't show me more than 640x480 screen on a nice 15" monitor.... Bummer trying to work on an 8x5 screen

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let me guess - you're using a TFT monitor? I dunno about anyone else but using a TFT monitor (one of the old CRT's I did have was fine) I can't get more than a 800x600 resolution out from half the linux distros I've tried (read Debian, Slack, SuSe). Having said that some distro's (knoppix, vector,Mandrake) work well at 1280x1024 which is what XP uses and is in fact the monitor default. What I find bizarre is that at least two of those distros Debian/knoppix and Slack/vector are based on the same core. Anyway I'm currently happy with the linux distro I've got set up - but similarly I'm also happy with XP.

Well.... On the bright side I am talking to you from the satellite office using Fedora over the wireless....... It took a while to realize that the silly thing won't work if both interfaces, (eth0, (hardwired 100BaseT0, and eth1, (wireless)), are running at the same time.... (I'm sure it can be done.... but it doesn't do it by default). [My WinXP does this fine... ] It seems like it gets confused as to which interface to use and always uses the wrong one..... <LOL>

The file system is, (OK "seems"), illogical. Stuff gets placed everywhere. /usr/local/shared or /usr/local/etc or root/bin etc. etc. etc. Packages seem to get just splattered everywhere.... Finding out how to run a package you just installed is a "learning experience".... There are some I got up and running really quick, NMap.... Nessus I got up after some struggling only to find that it won't work any more with an error message saying the address is already in use.... wtf... which address is it talking about???? Kismet simply won't work.... I dunno... I know it's me but c'mon.. It won't run from the shell and it won't run from anywhere else...... It says it will run with my wireless config but i don't know what to put in the config file that is appropriate for the card and no-one out there seems to want to tell anyone what it is.... So much for the extensive support.... [I know, it's a lot like searching the M$ knowledgebase..... A fun thing to do when you're bored but, eventually a fruitless exercise......]

Now, let's talk slow..... and clunky.... phew... I get bored..... You can't say the hardware is different - it's a dual boot WINXP/Fedora box..... So the hardware is identical. Folders with 1900 files in tale a week to come up - in WinXP they appear in seconds. Boot speed is horrible, especially if it can't find a network, what's with that? Can't it tell the cable isn't plugged in? Shutdown..... Oh Yawn..... Shut it down, fetch coffee come back the bloody thing is still switched on..... Ahhhhh.... it doesn't know power management.... how quaint..... how old-fashioned..... WinXP is faster than when using Gnome or whatever we are using.... No doubt about it.....

I know..... I'm a noob here..... Not only that I'm a noob fixed in other ways..... But I started this thread to "diary" the differences and show what I find good and bad about linux..... I have to say that, to date, I'm not overly impressed.... Slow, clunky, unprofessional, unintuitive, incomplete support for devices are all observations that are fair at this point..... As to granny being able to ever use it...... Dream on..... I have a clue about the system, (computer, devices, network etc.), I can see why things aren't working and therefore the direction to go to find a solution.....

Having said all this.... I'm sending this message, rebooting to XP and I'll reply from there to the abuse I will surely receive..... ;) 'Cos, I need to VPN into work while I type here and I'm not sure where to start with that in fedora.....

Seems like you have your hands full. All I will say is good luck :D

Devpon: Don't get me entirely wrong... It's a computer, I'm having fun "digging" but my experience is a classic example of why Linux is a long, long way from being a commercially viable alternative to Windows......

I have to admit one thing though that I forgot last night.... It has a ton more games than Windows, it has great support for playing music CD's, chatting online, etc. Take that for what you will... To me it's an indication of the priorities of some of the people developing apps for it.... ;)

Todays fun and games will begin with an attempt to create a pptp tunnel through my firewall first over the eth0, (hard wire), then..... should we be able to manage it, we are going for the big one.... The wireless pptp tunnel from the satellite office on a friday night..... :D

Ms. Mittens thread, here looked really interesting.... What I am really looking for.... So I went for it....

I D/Led it at home, Via Windows.... Well... Why did they pick some obscure way to compress it?... Well, no problem.... I'm now an uber leet linux chappie.... So I cut it to CD and take it to the satellite office.... Perfect, it reads the CD, copies it to the actual folder I asked it to... I'm so impressed with my abilities.... I try to burn it with the "burner" that comes with Fedora 1.... Funny, It doesn't do a darned thing..... Well... that sux... Ha, but being the "genius" I am I find another way to "burn" it..... Great.... the stupid thing did a simple file copy......

I open Mozilla to get instructions.... Wasn't it yesterday that, from here, over wireless, I was "up and running"? Well... Today.... We can't even see a network.... Funny really, XP finds it immediately.... Did I tell you how many times I was told I need to restart networking? I thought linix didn't need to be restarted during config changes... [my XP load takes it's changes on the fly..... Oh well]

Well..... Being smart, I went back to Windows.... Placed the CD with the ISO on it in the CD, copied it to the HD, ran my CD writer, cut it to CD and it boots perfectly.... Funny Huh?

Now, having booted to it, and ignored the errors it seems to work fine... It just doesn't recognize the wireless card.... I can live with that, I'll wait and see if it actually sees my network on monday through eth0......

I am seriously thinking that the title I gave this thread is right..... Maybe I'm spoiled by Windows.... But it works... It's properly supported and it doesn't just mess up on it's own, easily.....

Back on Monday for my next "report"..... :confused:

Hey Hey,

As far as the install process, I still find Linux simpler (and no I'm not biased.. I'm typing this on XP Pro).... I've become a huge fan of SuSE lately, so I'll talk in regards to it. I popped in Disk 1 and it detected my existing partitions, and told me exactly what it was going to create (swap double the ram, and / with the rest of the free space). I can go to advanced if I want and create /var, /home /usr, etc.. or I can keep this setup. I get asked for a password, and to create a user and if I awnt a GUI or not, it'll install a basic setup and let me choose more packages if I so desire. Then I just have to swap disks. Now you have to remember, I'm getting a shitload more software here from a single install. No need to go back and install photoshop, or go back and install Office. They'll already exist. The install is done and I boot up and run YOU (Yast Online Update) and I'm done.

As far as support, I guess that depends on your hardware. I've got a WUSB11 Linksys Wireless USB Device. Using Windows I have to go and download drivers, however with SuSE, it already supported it. Next let's look at my laptop.. It's an Inspirion 1100 and the NIC is a Broadcomm 440 soemthing or other. Windows XP doesn't detect this card, and I'm left without a functional NIC when I install in an MS environment, however SuSE immediately detected my NIC and set it up for me. I was connected to my DSL modem and it detected that as well and popped up asking for my username and password, already knowing who my DSL Supplier was. Windows also doesn't natively detect my Video or Sound drivers, yet SuSE detected them as well. Let's look at my desktop, I have an nVidia GeForceFX 5200 128MB, my previous card was an nVidia GeForce2 MX 400 (I refuse to touch ATI products... solely a personal preference however, they do have great products). I've installed several operating systems between these cards. XP will install generic drivers, however to get the Detonator pack, I have to and find it and download it. With MDK it was similar, I had to search it out and download and install. With SuSE however, as soon as I ran YOU it listed the newest drivers and let me install from right there.

As for the Linux File System seeming illogical, Windows has finally (how long did it take them) accepted the Mount Point concept. Infact, you can run into problems using Exchange Clusters if you don't use Windows Mount Points (anyone wants more info, I've got an interesting article on WMPs)... As for where files are placed, /usr/local and /usr are the only main places.. lib for libraries, include for header files, bin for user binaries and sbin for admin and system binaries. Windows isn't much different, you have program files, system32, %systemroot%, the drive root, hell some games create subfolders inside folders off the root of the system.

The GUI ran slow? Check out a process list..... you'll be surprised by how many programs are loaded when KDE runs, disable some of the docked apps, or run a slimmer window manager, compile your own kernel, compile your own apps.. the list is endless for ways to speed up Linux. I'm running SuSE 9.1 on a 350Mhz PC with 256MB of RAM and I have no problems, it boots up faster than my 2500+ w/ 768MB of RAM running Windows XP Pro. I also have the same functionality on both systems (except that I don't have a mouse plugged into the SuSE box.. :) hehe) and SuSE is using 1/30th of the space.. Of course, I have a lot of mp3s and movies and so on on the Windows Machine, if you compare the root drives.. XP has a 5GB drive for the system and SuSE has a 4GB. the XP drive has 900MB free whereas SuSE has 1.2GB free, and I don't have a single program installed on C: other than what XP placed there, I have a seperate drive for my applications.

CD Burner.... K3B comes with SuSE (it's fairly common linux burning software) and my gf has created a CD with it, yet she came up with a coaster when she used Nero.

I personally would like to attribute most of your problems to your choice in Fedora. I understand that many people on here have said good things about it, however everyone I know personally has given me nothing but bad reviews.

I could add many more points, but I don't want to turn this into a my OS is better thread because I know that wasn't your intention. I use both operating systems on a regular basis and just wanted to provide some alternate examples to the problems you've been having.

Peace,
HT

My biggest complaint is the insane file structures linux has. Windows programs are nicely encapsulated in their file structures, while linux sorta throws them all over. I'm starting to pick up its tendencies though, and I find that the file structure does sorta have some reason to it. I just don't have it down to habit yet. Plus, installations are a bitch. Windows is simply double click setup, hit nextnextnextnextnext then "no I dont want a icon on my desktop.", or dragging **** from a zip file. But then again, linux has such great software. Such GREAT software.

So I use windows and ssh into my other box. Or a bootable CD. I'd like to make a complete switch, but it's more employable to be experienced in both. Plus I can't ditch adobe just yet.

Tiger Shark, sounds like you are having a good time. :p The best advice I can give you is - linux is not like windows. They are 2 different beasts and if you really want to learn linux, then you will have to get out of the windows mindset. Lets say someone was brought up on unix/linux, would not the same arguments you put forth concerning windows be true? Think about it.
As far as restarting linux, that is not what you have been doing. You have been restarting the networking daemon. When you installed linux, how many times did you have to reboot? When installing apps. in fedora, how many times did you have to reboot? Now, how many times do you have to reboot while loading windows and all the apps. that follow? Get it?
I have to agree with HTRegz on your choice of fedora. Try suse and you might have a different experience or not.
Well once again, have fun(if pulling your hair out is fun :D)

Just to make the point again for other readers that may chose to comment in the future.... I'm not here to play the "Windows is better than *nix" game.... These are observations.... I might argue a point or two if they are valid points that aren't intended to start that type of silliness.....

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I personally would like to attribute most of your problems to your choice in Fedora

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HT: Ohhh, man.... Why didn't you type that before I went and got the Redhat.... ;)

Your points are valid, but like I said up front, there's a gazillion flavors of linux and they all seem to have their own little benefits/foibles. How would I know which one would support the various chipsets that I would want to install it on if it does what I want? Barring six months of research, (which would probably void the final decision because those I initially set aside as inadequate may have changed a lot in that time.... Heck, I got 144 updates for my Fedora load), I have to decide to try *nix, read a bit and plop myself down on one of the flavors.

I'll admit quite happily that the install was fairly painless - It built a load of partitions and set them all up right as far as I can tell... If I knew what I was doing I might be more impressed.... ;-) Yep, it found the, (probably), same network card your SuSE couldn't, first shot, right out of the box. I'm not unhappy with the install at all......

All that extra software.... Oh dear... Not being smart enough up front to know what I need and don't need, I told it to install all packages in the typical load..... Well.... I can honestly say that I rarely, if ever, use photoshop, (though I don't think it came with Fedora), and I surely didn't want the Office suite they threw at me.... I wanted an OS loaded.... period. Like Windows does.... Just the OS and the basic tools that come with it.....

Wireless..... Not only doesn't Fedora come with the right drivers - it can't run them anyway.... So I have to pay Linuxant..... I have to call "foul" on that when it's Open Source and free.... It shows a lack of support.... and the WPC54G PCMCIA card is hardly far from the "beaten path" as Wireless devices go.

Video was the same problem as wireless... It took me a day to get a workable screen..... and I have other computers etc. to help me find the things I need.

I'm not familiar with the mount point concept.... send me a link.... OTOH, I run Windows quite happily without them..... Seems to work just fine without them..... As to the rest of the filesystem.... I find Windows to be logical and organized.... Yes, that may well be a "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" issue but let's look at it when you install an app.....

Windows:-

1. Tells you up front where it will put the app and let's me change it.
2. If I pay no attention I know that the program files go in c:\program files or in a folder off root named something that is related to the software.
3. DLL's etc. are _usually_ dropped into %systemroot%\system32
4. It puts an icon on the desktop, (if I requested it), or in the program list so I can find the bloody executable.....

Fedora:-

1. I might have to compile the package..... [Granny note: what does "compile" mean?]
2. Some require a simple "make", others "make-dep", others "make-install", some any combination or all plus some others......
3. Some require you to only click the .rpm.
4. In all cases above the result is files "thrown" everywhere. /usr/local/bin, /usr/local/sbin, /usr/local/lib, /root/bin, /root/sbin, /root/lib and /where/the/hell/ever/it/wants..... ;)
5. Finding the subsequent executable can be 'fun". Some will start from a "binary file", some need a script, some are smart enough to put themselves into the list of "Applications", (though, sadly, these are not common), and some just don't seem to start at all.
6. When you need to find out how to start them the documentation seems lacking... It's assumed you already know how to start their app..... If you don't then "the devil take the hindmost"......
7. Oh... I forgot...... When you try to compile a package and it comes back and tells you.... "You need library xyz for this to be compiled.... Fatal error.... Aborting".... [Granny Note: If she got as far as a "make" this is going to throw her for a loop"....]

GUI running slow.... Hmmm..... this is "porked out" install of XP.... It has everything running as it was installed and a few things extra..... I only added services and kept the "typical install" stuff there too..... I did the same with the Fedora..... It's dual boot so the hardware is the same..... I shouldn't need to have to "slide on into' the services and shut things down when I have no clue as to whether they are necessary. Default loads - WinXP wins hands down for speed on this box... in all categories.... [I'm only telling you what I see, and I'm not "bending" the truth to make windows look good.... I'm trying to be honest and fair.... You know me HT....]

Fedora's CD Burner didn't want to play...... what can I say..... though it seems like the filesystem itself recognized that this was a CD-RW and "played the game" to an extent.... If I only had one CD available, it would have been the coaster you mentioned..... Funnily enough, I used Nero in WinXP to create the bootable that worked..... wtf... I dunno..... I'll freely admit that Nero has created some very pretty coasters in it's time..... but this time the coaster functioned....;)

I'll be the first to admit that the biggest issue is probably a "learning curve" issue.... But that's why I started the thread.... OK, I _might_ have chosen a more provacative title than I should... But, that aside, these are my observations..... I know full well that Linux is a stable, highly configurable OS..... But it's not your Granny's OS.... It's not "easy" and I'm speaking from the POV of someone who has "something" of a clue about computers.

Soda: I agree entirely..... While I'm not that bothered on the employability front Linux would keep me closer to the "bleeding edge" in security..... which is where I would like to be ... maybe I'm just an old dog that can't learn the new tricks..... <LOL>

Devpon: I see your point entirely..... My issue is time.... I have a 1200 page book to read.... My time in this thread might have been better used reading it..... But, my WinXp load seems to do better for me.... Don't get me wrong.... I have read a dozen or more 1200 page books on Windows.... But they weren't "Windows for Dummies".... honest.... ;-) They tended to be things like the inner "workings" of AD, the registry "exposed" etc..... I know it's all different.... DOS was different to me 16 years ago..... it's the way I went.... I need to learn.... I will.... It's just going to take some time......

<he says..... Hopefully.....>

Hey Hey,

I haven't heard of so many problems with a Linux install since my install of slackware many, many years ago. This is only my opinion but I think part of your problem may be that Fedora is a community project... it just doesn't have the same level of support that other "commercial" distrobutions provide.

I've sent you a PM regarding the Windows Mount Points article, and I'm more than willing to provide a helping hand if ya get stuck...

Good luck with the rest of your setup

Peace,
HT

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HT: Ohhh, man.... Why didn't you type that before I went and got the Redhat....

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That is maybe your problem. Fedora is not redhat linux (redhat is no longer supported by...erm...redhat) and as HT said, it is a community project. Not only is it a community project but a new community project. I'm not sure how long it's been going for, but I'd be surprised if it was over a year. Compare this to many other linux distros or indeed windows (not any specific windows version because I doubt if ms started from scratch when they were creating XP) and you might see the problem.

Please don't think I'm flaming you or anything...I wouldn't say that linux was better than windows or vice-versa because they are built for different purposes (or if not for different purposes, with different user sets in mind)

ac