do Techies tend to be more conservative or liberal in their politics?
is there a trend? Most of the ones I know tend to be more conservative? not sure why that is? what do you guys think and where do you stand? :bigsmile:
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do Techies tend to be more conservative or liberal in their politics?
is there a trend? Most of the ones I know tend to be more conservative? not sure why that is? what do you guys think and where do you stand? :bigsmile:
Personally, I have never liked the right/left labeling. And for me, it depends on what issue we are talking about. I might be conservative on one while liberal on anouther. Or, not even care about a third.
I don't know about techies in general. Perhaps techies responsible for maintaining websites or LAN/WAN etc... where a breach would cost them their job. Kind of understandable where most of them would think conservative. Such as consequences for your actions.
Anyways, you might want to have this thread moved into Cosmos. I can easily see it turning into a flame war.
Perhaps real techies are more critical in their thinking process, thus more conservative in politics.
Humm from road and spy, your arguments point towards more liberal...they are responsable, take responsability for there action, ect...not conservative traits...... Honestly probably depends on the area you live in around me most techies are liberal...it also depends on the feild, most open source guys are liberal...also depends on when they got in, most job changers are get rich quick types and tend to be wannabe conservatives, most desigenrs are wannabe liberals.
Since when have conservatives not been responsible? If anything it's liberals who are less responsible.
And where are these statistics coming from? I'd consider myself more of a "common sense" politician, although I'm more on the conservative side. I tend to read other's threads and see who knows what they're talking about, and who's talking out of their asses even though they know they're wrong. "Some" liberals, will not accept the truth if it hit em across the face with a baseball bat, and continue to argue it senselessly with empty or vague information.... thats just my opinion. Some people dont even know what they are....they just blindly accept any infromation they get...I.E. NewsPapers and News on TV. Unfortunately a majority of journalists out there are Liberal, a majority of professors in universities or colleges where they teach journalism are liberal as well...hence you get a shitload of em out there. (see a trend?)Quote:
Humm from road and spy, your arguments point towards more liberal...they are responsable, take responsability for there action, ect...not conservative traits...... Honestly probably depends on the area you live in around me most techies are liberal...it also depends on the feild, most open source guys are liberal...also depends on when they got in, most job changers are get rich quick types and tend to be wannabe conservatives, most desigenrs are wannabe liberals.
Well I consider myself sorta liberal, but very conservative on some issues. BBallad: you gotta admit, as much as the two of us dislike Bush and his cronies that is not really a fair statement to say that republicans in general are do not take responsibility for their actions and are not responsible.Quote:
they are responsable, take responsability for there action, ect...not conservative traits......
I go all over the place and meet techies all the time. They are almost always conservative in thinking and liberal in action. Some are abstract thinkers, but to program effectively abstract doesn't work. I wasn't pointing fingers just making and observation. Logical versus emotional response to input. Good analysts can do both pretty well, being an expert on neither abstract or logical thinking in my reference crtitical = logical. To stereotype one to extremes isn't logical for example. I could definitely hi jack the thread and go down that road. Most youth tend to be liberal, rebelian against anything logical is the food of youth.
Good posts!
I tend to think Liberals are more oriented towards personal responsability. A moire liberal outlook seems to want the government to give handouts and make more provisions for those that dont want to work for it? I am not saying both dont have their positive aspects. I have found however that most techs i know are more conservative in thinking.
Example: Bill Clinton having oral sex in the oval office, then lying under oath. Very responsible.Quote:
Originally posted here by Jason1977
Good posts!
I tend to think Liberals are more oriented towards personal responsability.
where i work there are two techs, both conservative, two help desk people one conservative one 'who gives a ****'. four programmers, two from russia (naturalized) one is conservative one i cant understand. another is from isreal (naturalized) conservative the other is from georgia (spelling - former ussr block) cant tell. the director is liberal.
I'm often arround a technical university over here, so I think I can consider the most part of the techies... The fun thing is the majority is socialist in dutch terms wich would be falling of the edge on the left side of politics in the US... It's like beyond communism in US terms probably (wich is very narrow minded :D :D :D).
Universities in general tend to be inhabited by socialists because students don't know any better at that age. They're mostly idealists who think all the world's problems can be solved by waving a magic wand. Once they get a job and work in the real world they figure out that life isn't easy or fair and generally change their political opinions towards conservatism.
A large part of all have a tech related job and alot again of those are in tech buisiness 5+ year, but still they're all socialist... How long do you have to have a job to become enlightened ?
As a Arts student and a socialist I feel it is my duty to go over to the Tech block in college and start spreading ideas.
I don't think you can pair the two labels: tech knowledge and political view together
I know tech people who are straight edge and i know tech people who are far from that, some are active voters, some hate the government and don't understand that voting can bring change, ect..
It depends, but once you start earning a decent salary/wage you'll suddenly realise that actually you don't want income tax to go up to increase social security benefits and private health care suddenly becomes an attractive option.Quote:
Originally posted here by neel
A large part of all have a tech related job and alot again of those are in tech buisiness 5+ year, but still they're all socialist... How long do you have to have a job to become enlightened ?
I very much doubt that all people with a tech-related job after 5 years are still socialists though.
If you get murdered by a "fascist" or murdered by a "communist", either way
you are prolly just as dead
:cool:
If yer talking about people who earn much and don't want to think about people who are less fortunate... we call those libarals over here. They're for as little governmenting as possible and as much free market as possible. And wether you believe it or not, ALL of the people I talked about (not one excluded) are between socialist and liberal.Quote:
It depends, but once you start earning a decent salary/wage you'll suddenly realise that actually you don't want income tax to go up to increase social security benefits and private health care suddenly becomes an attractive option.
I very much doubt that all people with a tech-related job after 5 years are still socialists though.
BTW, if you earn so little that you need two jobs to just earn enough money to stay alive, in that case you do want taxes to go up ? When I started to earn more I was quite willing to pay more tax actually then I would've been when I would've had nothing to spare. Even in the stone age people were more willing to share then in the US nowadays... so talking conservative, you're doing great over there.
Well of course most people are going to be between socialist and liberal if you definition of liberalism is actually conservatism (the only other options would be extreme left or right). However, you actually said "but still they're all socialist..." which is not the same as being between socialist and liberal (at least not the way you define it).Quote:
Originally posted here by neel
[B]If yer talking about people who earn much and don't want to think about people who are less fortunate... we call those libarals over here. They're for as little governmenting as possible and as much free market as possible. And wether you believe it or not, ALL of the people I talked about (not one excluded) are between socialist and liberal.
I don't know what the situtation is in the US, but over here you pay a progressive rate of tax. Your first £4000 or so doesn't incur any tax, then the next £18000 or so is taxed at 10% and this keeps going up in stages until you hit around £30000 where you pay 40% on everything above that amount. If you're earning so little you will probably not lose out from a tax rise and the money raised from everyone else will probably be going to something such as increasing your social security benefits.Quote:
BTW, if you earn so little that you need two jobs to just earn enough money to stay alive, in that case you do want taxes to go up ?
You pay a greater proportion of your income in tax anyway (assuming a progressive rate of income tax) when you earn more, but would you be happy if you were earning $80000/year and the government said "we're increasing taxes by 10% on high earners". I doubt it very much.Quote:
When I started to earn more I was quite willing to pay more tax actually then I would've been when I would've had nothing to spare.
edit 2: to pwaring, I wrote this in the believe you're american, I just noticed you're not so it might be a bit ****ed up read now
liberals over here are not the same as conservatives over there... In fact it's more like the other way arround, your liberals are our conservatives. Besides that I always learned them politics aren't just one line from left to right, but it's more like a triangle, or even better: a cross. You have left and right (progressive/conservative) and up and down (liberal free market/society religious stuff). Liberals are neither left nor right, they're at center and then some bit up along the cross. Of people I talked about, many vote for the SP (social party), then most vote for the PvdA (labour party, wich is left wing in the netherlands) and one or two vote for the VVD (dutch equivalent of liberals wich is on the left side of US liberals).Quote:
Well of course most people are going to be between socialist and liberal if you definition of liberalism is actually conservatism (the only other options would be extreme left or right). However, you actually said "but still they're all socialist..." which is not the same as being between socialist and liberal (at least not the way you define it).
Here's a progressive tax system too, I don't know the exact numbers, but there is a bottom ammount also where you don't pay tax over. As an extra we also have a bottom ammount you will earn whatever work you do, so you don't have to live with a doubt you can't pay your food or the need to have two jobs.Quote:
I don't know what the situtation is in the US, but over here you pay a progressive rate of tax. Your first £4000 or so doesn't incur any tax, then the next £18000 or so is taxed at 10% and this keeps going up in stages until you hit around £30000 where you pay 40% on everything above that amount. If you're earning so little you will probably not lose out from a tax rise and the money raised from everyone else will probably be going to something such as increasing your social security benefits.
If I earn really much, I probably would give a part to whatever group of poor people, be it third world people or poor people in my own country. If the government makes good use of the money, I won't wine. After all it's that money they build roads with and also pay me IF I ever get disabled or very ill. I don't need 10 square meters more house if I can have all the other ****. What I would like to see more, instead of raising general tax, is they raise the taxes on very specific thing. For example transportation/fuel prices/car buying. Then you're directing the taxes to the people who should pay them (in the example of road use).Quote:
You pay a greater proportion of your income in tax anyway (assuming a progressive rate of income tax) when you earn more, but would you be happy if you were earning $80000/year and the government said "we're increasing taxes by 10% on high earners". I doubt it very much.
But honestly, if I earn so much I'm part of the high-earners, I wouldn't mind giving up a part for I know how it feels to live without money. There is a border though, because specialised people should imo earn more then people without education, because otherwise noone would go to an expensive school anymore. Maybe if someone eventually finds a working way of changing to communism/marxism that will change, but in the current society that's a no-go.
edit: damn I just saw the length of my post, thanks for investing time in reading it all
The UK flag kinda gives it away. :pQuote:
Originally posted here by neel
edit 2: to pwaring, I wrote this in the believe you're american, I just noticed you're not so it might be a bit ****ed up read now
We have that as well - the minimum wage (although you are only guaranteed so much per hour, rather than a specific salary).Quote:
As an extra we also have a bottom ammount you will earn whatever work you do, so you don't have to live with a doubt you can't pay your food or the need to have two jobs.
If you want to help the less well off, you wouldn't be in favour of increasing taxes on specific things other than income. Taxes on goods will actually account for a higher percentage of your income if you are earning less because you pay the same no matter how much you earn (yes, you buy more perhaps if you earn more, but only up to a point).Quote:
What I would like to see more, instead of raising general tax, is they raise the taxes on very specific thing. For example transportation/fuel prices/car buying. Then you're directing the taxes to the people who should pay them (in the example of road use).
Communism will never work in practice because people are naturally selfish.Quote:
Maybe if someone eventually finds a working way of changing to communism/marxism that will change, but in the current society that's a no-go.
You hit upon the crux of the problem. The government is taking your money and distributing it to the special intrest groups that have the pull to solicit, coerece, demand, or blackmail......well we will call them contributions from the tax payers. Shouldn't YOU be the one deciding what charities YOU deem worthy of YOUR contributions? As an example: If you think abortion is bad, then why should your taxes support free abortion clinics? IMHO let the government fund their road projects but leave funding the charities to the charitable.Quote:
The government is generally who we make it here in the US. Just seems to be one major problem. I believe the citizens are really far less informed than much earlier years and many vote on a whim or talk from others. So when you don't know who you are voting for or why, that is if they vote (another issue!), then what can we expect from the characters we allow in office.
The more you engage in critical thinking, the better decisions you will make. Geeks like me tend to analyze before acting. :eek:
that was a typo on my part....i meant are not moreQuote:
Originally posted here by Jareds411
Example: Bill Clinton having oral sex in the oval office, then lying under oath. Very responsible.
I have been working in Tech-related jobs for the passed 15 years and i still have a lot of socialists views.Quote:
I very much doubt that all people with a tech-related job after 5 years are still socialists though.
The most annoying thing about most tax systems is the poor cant pay taxes and the rich don't pay taxes. It is the people in the middle who get hammered.