Thw whole AO community thing

Ok i just had a brain wave I know AO is a 'community' but its true purpose is security correct but i know a lot of members have made friends here and like to socialise. So my suggestion is that we make like a link on the front page like http://community.antionline.com or http://antionline.com/community and forms with all the non security content could be moved here and link to the community forums from the front page and do the same for the security forms that way people who are here just for chit chat and to shoot the **** can browse just that form and people who are just hear for securityand techy threads can just browse the security and techy side of the site and vice versa that way we can get the best of both worlds without the whole AO is a community conflict. Just one more thing do people think the antionline data base should be up-dated with new code tools exploits etc ? and move all the other crap to a directory called old ****/stuff/whatever and we could add member's code like ht's pyscan and stuff to the new archive after all the **** in the archive is really old and really out-dated its only purpose here is using disk space and for historical reasons.

sounds like a fine idea to me prodikal - certainly I think the old code tools/explots etc should be archived somewhere else and I really like the idea of having members code up in a new archive - with members permission (or would that be implicit in posting it on AO in the first place - probably would I guess)

any chance of this happening guys??

I love both ideas.YOu got my support man.

You got my support as well, especially for the idea of new exploit code, tool's, etc. That old **** just has to go and we should have some new stuff.

Thanks for the feed back guys. And im glad im not the only one who thinks the 'tools archive' should be archived and new stuff addes maybe even a section for member specific code and i thik if the community and the security side were seperated i could see AO turning around in a good way. And if jupmedia wants more hits a new exploit archive would draw more people here regardless of what people call 'script kiddie' and such but they could find the sploits any where else any way so why not here


Thanks again

I agree. also, since it would be a new page basically, you could make posts NOT count there. Then people would begin to actually earn the way into The Addicts forum. Which with the Nonsencical threads, might as well be "The Post whore Addicts".

I agree with Prodikal, this would be a great idea, but also for others reading, think of how much this would take to move around. All I'm saying is, it's a great idea, but don't expect it in a week.



Also, updating the code and exploits would be nice.


How about an option to upload? Like, members could upload exploits and so on, and to combat **** ups coming in and uploading trojaned code, you could take the first idea and make it so non security threads no longer count on post count. That way only people who seem respected here could upload code.

I for one am willing to sacrifice my post count for this.

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I for one am willing to sacrifice my post count for this.

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i know i have a lot of posts, but to heck with them. If it's for a better AO, im with you.

I dont think this would be to hard to impliment it would stop all the mindless bitching for those who dont want to see it and just read security and techy posts cmon jupmed implememnt this hell i will even give up my free time to up-date the new exploit archive and give reviews on the exploits if i ahve the resorces

I agree with both ideas. The community fuction could have general chit chat and the nonsense thread, and the security forum 'security'.
AP's would be for merit and not popularity.
Tools and exploits would be from people you know, and not from where ever. I mean, who knows where any of that stuff came from that is laying around there now.
It would probably take most of a year for a newbe to make senior status instead of the 2-3 months now.
Although, it would be a pain for the mods to move all the junk.

I aggree it would be a pain for the mods but the new title 'maximum security for a connected world' is a bit **** compared to the standards the site has fallen too we dont even have new tools reviews of tools or advisories (Even though im against there release there still getting released so some where should have them)

Well, Prod, one way to start this in the right direction, would be to maybe do a monthly post to a forum here with a review of tools and exploits you like and don't like. I think it would be kind of cool. You could do a review of all of this, make a post, and give links to people who want to go farther into the reading.

Also, I just want to say how much I like this idea. I've asked before if we could have no more posts count in GCC and so on, but it wasn't something to be done, but maybe this way it could be precoded into it?

To be honest its not the post count i was trying to get at its just splitting the site in 2 so to speak one side for just security and the other for thr people who come here to 'Socalise'

Sounds very interesting. I am assuming something along the lines of the current index to the forums? but with a sort of "index" overlay?

I would suggest that you probably need to split it three ways? Social/Technology/Security. We already have forums for Web Development, Code Review and Hardware? I would add "Software" to that and make the whole lot the "Technology" forum.

Looking at it from JupM's viewpoint, they want visitors? it is a bit like a supermarket where you have "loss leaders" to bring people in the store, whilst they are in there you hope that they will buy some of the products that you make a profit on?

I know there are those who will say "people can go somewhere else for all that"...........yes they can, but I don't think that JupM want that, they want the hits. Hey if you want someone to buy into ideas you have to sell them the advantages to themselves?

Just my thoughts.........

If you were to look at it from JupM's viewpoint (IMHO), they wouldn't change the site and seperate it into two. Too much work, time, effort, then it the moderation and administration of it would be different and complicated and the website would need LOTS of change's made. Now, I'm for the idea but implementing it could be difficult. I would go to both of the site's and post on both (afterall, and like I said, I like the idea). Also, and ya gotta realize this: JP didn't create AO so that it would somewhere down the road be split into two (or three) seperate website's.

Keep in mind, I am for the idea. But it's chance's of being worked out and implemented aren't good.

dear god stop changing ao

This suggestion has been discussed, and the consensus is that separating AO in two groups (Community Vs. Security) isn't really necessary.

The forums are clearly divided into Security-related and Community-related forums, and adding another separation wouldn't bring any added value.
Furthermore, previous suggestions to only have security-related forums show up on the front page have been implemented.

As for the security archives: the old archives are being ummm... archived right now.
The decision as to what should be put in their place hasn't been made yet, and JUPM is open for suggestions:

- More security related, or more hacker related? The distinction might be a bit shady, therefore:
- Limited access to the new archives for "priviledged" members only? Based on post count? Antipoints? Or unlimited, but with a big-ass TOS?...

Suggestions? Comments? :)

I do not believe that the discussion is about "dividing the site" as such, or changing AO, just altering the front porch, so to speak?

You would have three areas to go into, like a sub menu behind the front page? The rest stays as normal, except the forums are divided into the three sections? Then you go back to the sub menu to get to another overall forum?

My normal method is to log on, troll down the bottom, and bring up all current threads. I sometimes check out adverts on the front page. Putting a second layer behind that for each of the three (there might be more) categories gives a sub index page, and allows JupM more targetted advertising.

This would allow a second level of sub-advertising for JupM?, and that is why they host us for free?

Am I the only guy who reads the ads?...........and has actually bought?...........

Cheers

Well, I won't push the issue but rather comment on the new one.

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- Limited access to the new archives for "priviledged" members only? Based on post count? Antipoints? Or unlimited, but with a big-ass TOS?...

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I would hafta say let only Senior Member's be allowed to access it. If you do it like that, then you would eliminate the people who register just to download and then the only people who would download it would be people who obviously aren't troll's and have knowledge of security, have maintained a good time here, and obviously passed the "rigors" of not screwing up here (being negged to a ban). So I think only Senior's or Addict's should access that.

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Am I the only guy who reads the ads?...........and has actually bought?...........

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Yes. And Yes. :D

Heck yeah, General Chit Chat is kinda getting bloated and it really agitates me when someone comes in a thread and is all like

"Oh my god will mod please get rid of this thread"

Basically, the whole forum does need a revamp. A great deal of the threads are not really security or discussion or even here is something cool to try. Most everything has become, okay help me do this.

I can't really think of a clear way to implement things though. But if stuff keeps up at the rate, this forum is going to become nothing more than a free tech help site with hundreds of specific subjects. That isn't fun. There does need to be a split with things. The best I got so far is

Chit n' Chat - For anyone with privledge subjects (kinda like Addicts Forum)

Tech Help - Anyone with lots of indepth subjects and lots of stickies for common solutions (will weed out like a billion threads)

Discussion - Real stuff with different levels of discussion that can be accessed with increasing status

newb --> member --> addict --> senior

or this could be split into Whitehat - Blackhat subjects

Ideas Ideas Ideas

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The forums are clearly divided into Security-related and Community-related forums, and adding another separation wouldn't bring any added value.
Furthermore, previous suggestions to only have security-related forums show up on the front page have been implemented.

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Yes most of the security forums show up on the front page but what i do is when i visit AO i go to the forms and search for new posts. Now my suggestion was just implement it so people could just search security posts like Discussion Forms -> View new posts all i ask is that there is a link to search just the techy related form for new posts and so not to be biased have a link to view new community posts which will turn up gcc cosmos tech humour and the like

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As for the security archives: the old archives are being ummm... archived right now.
The decision as to what should be put in their place hasn't been made yet, and JUPM is open for suggestions:

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w00t

In there place should be new tools & toys and the text archive well read that for you're self :D that seriously needs up-dated

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- More security related, or more hacker related? The distinction might be a bit shady, therefore:
- Limited access to the new archives for "priviledged" members only? Based on post count? Antipoints? Or unlimited, but with a big-ass TOS?

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If JupMedia want more hits and thats basically why they bought the site for the hits it gets brings them $$ so i think there should be a TOS to keep jupmedia out of court etc saying that tools and exploits are here for security testing purposes only and jupmedia cant be held responsible for people's action yada yada etc maybe even make a form to discuss new exploits tools etc if people have the resources they can be tested snort rules could be wrote packet captures etc and break the full thing down in the form explaining whats happening

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Tech Help - Anyone with lots of indepth subjects and lots of stickies for common solutions (will weed out like a billion threads)

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Couldnt aggree more I would rip my hair out if I see another what is the best thread


I think Nihil hit the nail on the head on what i was trying to get at :)

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i think there should be a TOS to keep jupmedia out of court etc saying that tools and exploits are here for security testing purposes only and jupmedia cant be held responsible for people's action

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You eliminate the need for that though if you limit the access to Senior Member's. Obviously, if you've made it to Senior Member status, you wouldn't be some troll/cracker/1337 dude trying to download it for the wrong reason's. Now if the senior member access isn't implemented, then definitely put out the major TOS.

As for the tools that are there right now, I say that they all get deleted. There is way too much crap there and god knows what is/isn't virused.

I think a code archive would be a better idea than a tool archive anyways. If if is just code then the people who know how to use it responsibly would have access while skiddies would pretty much go hit the google. Plus, that would be more helpful to everyone and everyone would learn a lot more if they had the code instead of the finished product.

Stuff could be split into different code groups

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c/c++
VB
Python
Perl
Basic
ASM
Java
HTTP/XML/Javascript

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I also still like the "Big Three" As I have just now dubbed

1.) Free Talking About Anything With Lots of Little Forums
-Music
-TV
-Movies
-Books
-Crap
-Even More Crap

2.) Tech Help (With Lots OF STICKIES!!!)
-Antivirus
-Firewall
-Spyware
-Network Help
-Windows Help
-*nix Help
-Hardware Help
-etc..

3.) Real Discussion (With Levels For Different Leveled Memebers)

-White Hat
-Black Hat
(Prolly not like this but right now that is what I am going to write)

I think this would be downright super and would keep the subjects clearly divided. AKA Discussion doesn't turn into Tech Help.

The white-hat/black-hat thing is really played out, that would be very detrimental to add that. I think the communities fine the way it is right now (the layout of everything).

eh hem. the forums have already been butchered enough since their most "fun" as well as most "informative" stages, must we butcher more? I mean, is it really a problem to where it needs change enough to kill the normality we have gotten so used to?

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is it really a problem to where it needs change enough to kill the normality we have gotten so used to?

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That's a good point er0k and the answer is no. We've become so accustom to how AO look's and feel's the way it is right now, that we don't wanna get used to a new look and feel.

well, as soon as jupmedia came along, it was at the same time that i began to lose interest in computers. Not that jupmedia had anything to do with it, disregard that i'm drunk.

Anyway the point i am trying to make is, really.. whats the problem with ao? Its already been changed around alot. I mean hell, our antipoints don't mean anything, it takes an entire army of seniors to ban someone, the community has died... irc has been gone forever, which now jp shares a server with liran or some **** like that...

In all actuality, we have no community. Honestly, its difficult to find mentors here now, or at least people that care. Its all warped into a giant corporate marketing scheme. Some people found a site that has alot of members who like the site and will keep coming back no matter if they dislike it or not, not just for the material, but for the members, the companionships that they desire, the online friendships that they need to cope with their lives, and exploited it for advertisements and company promotions.

Hell, i don't blame em, i mean i would do the same thing if i wanted more money and had the money to do it... but this is the closest thing we have to a community right now, we need to leave it as it is. If we segregate the community, or lack thereof, from the security portion of the site, the community, or lack thereof, will deplete further. Prodikal, we go back a bit, but i mean buddy, you know we don't need this. Its a good suggestion, and "I know i haven't been around that much lately so what does my opinion matter" but we need stability. And i urge you all to keep the stability we have now. Its all we've got.

y0 er0k long time no speak hows you ?

Anyways it is just a suggestion it doesnt need to be imlpemented ;)

just to keep things seperate since AO decided it was a 'community' and not a security site per say

o im good man... still tackling those war games?

wow is everyone a senior now.. haha look at the posters in this thread

Yeah, pretty much. I suggested to "raise the bar" so to speak for the addict's/senior status with the post's, but the idea was tossed. It's all cool though, the site's mainly populated with Senior's and Addict's anyways.

I'd say that these are all great ideas, but i'd recommened that JupMed actually do something right for a change, so i say that they go back to there little drawing board and come up with some possible new layers for this Place.
They then put it up on the web throw us the links and we go and have a looksie, then it's just a matter of them putting up a Poll and with ever lay out wins get's implemented.
Damn all they gotta do is back up this place and do the swap over, fine i know it'll take some time but i imagine that it will be worth it.
I'm sick of finding bugs/holes around this place i think it's time that they upgraded this place to a newer version..
Well there's my opinion take it or leave it..


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