We don't need no stinkin' security policy or AUP!

As a member of OPSEU, I'm rather appaulled at the stance by the union. It was just wrong that these people got away with what they did. What's worse is that the union is asking for them to get 3 years retroactive pay!?! Geesh. Did the crime should do the time.

What killed me the most was this quote from the Globe and Mail:

Quote:

---

“There were no victims, they weren't e-mailing people in a harassing way, it wasn't child pornography, it was consensual among friends,” Mr. Eady said. “It's not an excuse for the conduct, but it does go to the penalty.”

---

Right. So explain that to the person that might have seen it walking past their desk. Or the taxpayer that is paying for all this. Last time I checked, those computers, the time on the computers and the actually work cost someone. There are victims: The Ministry itself and the taxpayer who has to foot the bill.

Quote:

---

Source: The Toronto Star

Minister 'not happy' workers must be rehired

CANADIAN PRESS

Ontario's minister of natural resources says he's "not happy" an arbitrator is forcing the government to rehire six workers who were fired three years ago for swapping pornographic e-mails at work.

"To know that this number of employees were spending a part of their working day — sponsored by the taxpayers of Ontario — transferring this type of smut and filth that poisons the workplace and threatens and intimidates people is just wrong," David Ramsay said today.

"I'm not happy with it and I'm not happy with the idea that we're going to have to take them back."

The government doesn't have all the reasons behind the arbitrator's decision, and until then it can't decide whether it will appeal the ruling, he added.

Ramsay also said he's not sure if the arbitrator will award the workers back pay for the three years since they were fired, nor does he know what kind of penalty these workers will face, although he said he hopes it is "stiff."

Two of the fired workers are expected to be back on the job shortly, he said.

In a ruling issued on June 18, the arbitrator found that although the six exchanged the e-mails, the government did not have just cause to fire them.

Ramsay said 83 workers were disciplined in the case in 2001, with punishments ranging from letters of reprimand to firings.

As a result of those decisions, the workers' union filed 27 grievances, with the firings being the first to be heard by the arbitrator.

Don Eady, the lawyer for the Ontario Public Service Employees Union who represented the six fired workers, said the union always believed the workers had to be reprimanded, but that being fired was too harsh since they were all first-time offenders.

---

It of course should be up to the boss rather or not these people work there.

In my opinion unions outlived their usefulness as soon as various provinces developed employee rights legislation. I've heard some shady things about how certain small-time non-union construction contractors have been treated to the point where in the papers a couple years back I read an article about how some guy had his site firebombed apparently by union members. It's believable, having lived in a union town for a few years.

Ms Mittens

Being a Canadian tax payer and working in the IT sector here in Canada I am too appaulled at this ruling.

These people deserve to be fired for their actions, and wasting the taxpayers money browsing porn sites.

This is not tolerated in the private sector...and should not be tolerated in the public.
Union or no.

The do not deserve retro pay...or their jobs back.

The unions are out of control......I know they were established to protect to workers rights...but what about us taxpayers watch our hard earned tax dollars being pissed away..on porn!!!!

Oohhhhhhhh...i am soooooo mad :mad:

Think I will write my MP

MLF

That'd be a good idea. What worries me the most is that this might set a precendent that will carry over to the private sector. It's hard enough for companies to convince members to not click on stuff that they shouldn't or to not forward that little 1MB chain-letter file to all 10,000 employees. Having something like this will only open the potential for admins to be powerless at controlling what happens on their networks.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by chsh
In my opinion unions outlived their usefulness as soon as various provinces developed employee rights legislation. I've heard some shady things about how certain small-time non-union construction contractors have been treated to the point where in the papers a couple years back I read an article about how some guy had his site firebombed apparently by union members. It's believable, having lived in a union town for a few years.

---

Well I guess since they have outlived their practical importance it is time to build new crime syndicates using this influence.

Essentially I too think they should not be allowed back in. Although e-mails are private in nature what you do at your workplace is not [especially working in a Gov't agency]. So mixing the two is definitely not a good choice.

porn, browsing at amazon.com, whatever.
They are conduncing personal activities during working hours. I believe that just it can be considered motivation to fired those guys out.

You are so right Ms Mittens.

I have trouble putting in Computer Usage Policies in the first place,...usually in small business
"No...I dont think we need that. We are a small organization."

Then they end up paying me to constantly clean out malware cause the users are visiting massivemammories.com.

This is not good.

that is a primary reason for a strong security policy that is put in place and that has to be signed/agreed to by the employee at hire date. If any changes occur to the policy then HR must send those changes out and give people a "drop dead" date to sign compliance to the policy.

I'm a believer in good policy being in place to protect both the company AND the employees.

As far as unions go there is a usefulness for them. However the usefulness does not include and business I run start or will be a part of. I am against unions and feel that although there was a point for them at one time that time is long gone. I feel that unions should have been dropped when equality happened.

For example:

It wasn't that long ago that blacks and women were being treated unfairly at work. However that time is over there are enough laws to protect these groups.

I feel that because of these changes in laws (not unions) that may be the reason that people are becoming more equal in their everyday lives. Don't get me wrong there is still strong racism out there (and I hope that I live to see that end of it). But I have grandma's who still call blacks by their derogatory term. And even though they themselves are women they feel that it is not necessary for women to be in the workplace or to have "careers." They don't mean anything mean about it they just grew up in a time when it was normal to call them by these terms and do not see the 'wrongness' in using them.

So to reiterate my point I believe that unions were effective at one time. This brings me to my next point:

I feel that the business world has grown out of unions. I know they are still very effective in certain arenas but there will be less progress without unions.

Example:

Lets look at Microsoft you need to follow all the licensing and bullcrap and the enormous fees however with opensource you may still need to pay but there is more rrom for growth and no one is going to tell you what you have to do.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, that was not my intent.

- MilitantEidolon

massivemammories.com. (I am SO going there.....)
So, I go there, send details to friends at work, get caught, charged and go to jail for a while, then get all my back pay AND my job back.
I'm missing something here ?

Unions are a good thing to have, their history is the proof of this. However, they need to adapt or die.

In the UK the unions were demonised by MsT in the 80's, and had their teeth pulled good style then, nowadays there are one or two unionists who still believe in the 'communist' path.

For the most part, there has been a groundswell of support for the new direction and leadership styles of the more forward thinking unions.

I, have been a member of my union for over thirty years, they helped me with court costs, through an accident at work, and they have a dedicated 24/7 phoneline to legal advice for NON work related problems. they (at least) are proactive in the pursuit of new members, and in the understanding of the so called sunshine technologies.

Not all unions are bad, but some do need to be pulled kicking and screaming into the 20th century, let alone the 21st.

Now, where was I, Ah yes www.mas...............................

IMHO, unions, the ACLU, the NAACP, and many other civil rights organizations have outlived their usefulness but I guess there is still too much money and egos involved to lety them fade away. Or in the case of unions, too much organized crime backing them.

Hang them all.

So, how many people saying they were wrong, read this, or read this site from work? I know a few of you read AntiOnline while at work, and it doesn't matter if this site is porn or not. It's been proven already that looking at boobies will help lower your blood preassure, and for some, probably gives the only arm excersize they get all day.

Boobies are also good for RSI prevention. It also doesn't matter they were Gov workers. How many of you would vote for someone that was nothing like you? ;)

I'll "get off my ass and vote" when I see a candidate that plays online and admits to masturbation 3 times a day in between doses of something fun.

I'm not voting for anyone who goes on TV talking about how great he did in school, or how he's against porn, that just means he'd piss me off and kill a hobby. I want someone who's REAL. Jello Biafra would be a great President.

Gore

Personally I am not against porn...I really dont care what you do on your OWN computer...in your own bedroom as long as everyone is a consenting adult..have fun..enjoy.

My problem is with people blatently browsing porn sites at work...while they are being paid with my tax dollars. What happens (as Ms M stated) if someone were to walk by and see whatever site the porn browser was on...here in Canada....this against our Employee rights...to have to view offensive material...

Grant it...what is offensive to me...maynot be offensive to you. and so be it. I am all for freedom to believe\practice and masterbate.....but not at work! where it my offend someone that has other beliefs\practices then you....It should not be forced upon them

Not negging you..just making a statment.

<edit> I take no offense to boobies...
Foxy....mm.com was one of the....lets say...softer sites I have come across.... ;)

MLF

Well in response to Gore:

Quote:

---

So, how many people saying they were wrong, read this, or read this site from work? I know a few of you read AntiOnline while at work, and it doesn't matter if this site is porn or not. It's been proven already that looking at boobies will help lower your blood preassure, and for some, probably gives the only arm excersize they get all day.

---

I do read this site at work and I read it alot at work but why do I do this?... Because I am ALLOWED reading this site at work. I have been given permission to read any site I please as long as the content is not adult related or offending (this is to protect us from a lawsuit from a fellow employee).

Although looking at porn may help lower blood pressure it strictly violates our 'computer code of conduct.' I do not mind access the smut from home or whatever but while you are at work you should not be access sites with adult content because it opens you up to lawsuits.

- MilitantEidolon

mmmmmmmmmmmm, massive..................com, OH YES. But, only at home. I am allowed to access the net at work, and go here to read, learn and maybe educate.

The company has STRICT view policy, and even if you don't know it, as in UK law, ignorance is NO excuse.

Now if you'll excuse me, www.mm.com, sorry, but I didn't know it was required THREE times a day.
Damn it, I'll never make it as leader of the free world. There again, even as a 'dicktator', how much trouble could I make 'single-handed' :D

It's the same here...my boss walked up to me while I was reading this article, read it with me, laughed about how true it is, and didn't mind. Meanwhile, we just completed a project where every workstation had to have solitaire, mine sweeper, freecell, and pinball removed because employees were caught playing them for any amount of time at all.

Being in the IT dept, I have a few "privileges" that others don't have, primary being the ability to look at sites like AO, etc. My theory is that if it's not blocked by the firewall and my boss doesn't disapprove, then I'm ok on it, as long as my job is not hampered by my actions.. A person getting paid by the hour based on performance shouldn't be playing solitaire at all, period. Workers that have internet access and email should not be swapping pornographic emails, period. There's a time and place for all that and it's not at work. Where's the study based on how many emails were swapped, how much time was on the internet for these things, and how much work DID they get accomplished?

Unions, IMHO, serve a purpose but that purpose was long lost a long time ago, hence why you have "Right to work" states in the US. NAACP, Jesse Jackson for "equality", etc...all those might've started with good causes but when the cause turns into "how much money can we get", etc, then there's a problem and unions now are a joke. Rehire people that were FIRED THREE YEARS AGO AND GIVE THEM BACKPAY? What am I doing wrong? I'm going to move there, get a job, **** around, get fired, then get the union to give me my job back because I'm a union worker? Dude, I'd so firebomb that committee, but that's just MHO.

As it is, I work in the largest yet poorest county in Florida, Polk, and I see enough bullshit people that get a free ride from the state and government while I work my ass off to keep my bills paid, my taxes paid (which pay for these bitches to not work, get their project house rebuilt, etc), pay for my vehicle and gas and food, etc...talk about your never-ending vicious cycle. ****in' hate it...I have no sympathy for people who **** off at work, get fired, slackasses who circle-jerk all day and think walking to a mailbox is getting a paycheck, etc...

Let someone say they're being oppressed in today's society, I'll willingly go to jail.

*clap*clap*clap*clap*

Nice post Vorlin I couldn't have said it better myself.

I just saw a 30 year old man with hi wife buying 2 -24 packs of beer and 3 cartons of cigarrettes with food stamps. I mean Damnit I would rather sit at home and drink beer all day but no, I have to support myself and them.

Some people (single mom with a bunch of kids) do need help and I am totally ok with that but damnit not a man that can work.

- MilitantEidolon

It just really pisses me off to no end knowing that it's not "what you know" it's "who you know and who you blow" in this world. If I got busted for swapping porno emails, whether it's with my gf or with coworkers, I'd be so shitcanned with charges pressed, paychecks garnished, etc...it wouldn't be funny and I'd spend the next 8 years digging myself out of that. Instead, I watch people get away with stuff like that all the time.

WARNING: EXTREME OPINION-RELATED MATERIAL BELOW

As for the single mom with kids, I don't have much sympathy there either. This isn't the 50's where it's ok for a woman to have 4 kids and no job because generally, back then, the guy would handle the business. Those days are gone and if I'm smart enough to not get a girl pregnant (without being married and without protection) causing us to get married because of the kid (wrong reasons 1 through 10), then girls can be smart enough to keep their legs together. Too bad there aren't many guys like me (in this area) where they feel it's their duty to get a girl knocked up and there's so many single moms with kids (I work with a 20 year old who has THREE FREAKING KIDS) who have sob stories about how guys 1, 2, and 3 left them (yeah you think they'd get the picture after the first kid, definitely the second) after banging them repeatedly until she got pregnant and are now looking for "the right man to take care of me and accept me for who I am and no man will ever come between me and my beautiful kids" which translates into "all sugah daddeez, come to me, I have some life left in my used engine, just pay me money while you're gone and I'll be fine and my three beautiful kids, who don't come from the same dad, will be moving in too".

Yeah, the system overall sucks ass, IMHO and you can tell I'm NOT an advocate of state-funded support (except in the most extreme of cases). Forget the past gfs who wanted free rides, the gf I'm with now has been down the path of bad times but has no baggage, no kids, pays her own way in everything and supports herself wholly. THAT's a real woman to me! WOOHOO!

Disclaimer: this is not a rant on women. I have full respect for women who prove themselves (just like guys have to prove everything to a woman) as decent people who aren't out trying to bum a free ride, have 10 kids, no job, etc...the rest can rot on the curb for all I care and so could the boys (not men) that did that to them. Thanks for boosting stastistics, dude, you could've just wrapped it and not have her eject another sorry human being into this already overpopulated planet! That's where I really feel sorry...for the kids who suffer their parents dumbass decisions.

****

Whoopsy, theres a lawsuit. I hid the post, which means you had to click on the "Show me" option, like at a porn site. ;)

I'm sorry....Well actually I'm not, but anyway, if you're offended by a naked body, don't shower or change your clothes ever.

I don't like looking at a penis, because I stay true to my own, but if I walked passed and saw some woman watching a dude spank it....Who the hell am I to get upset when I'd probably be doing about the same thing when I got home from work?

And if I walked up and saw boobs, I wouldn't be upset, I'd probably be like "Ohhhh!!! Nippies!". I just don't get it why people get so upset over something they have in their own pants too. If naked bodies and wee wees and boobies offend you, cut your balls off, and slice your wang off, and cut your nipples off like the Pink Floyd video, so you can be "Just another ***** with no balls". If you've seen the movie Brick in the wall, that should get a giggle out of you.

Now, would I myself allow my employees to browse porn at work? No. Unless they only went to trusted wank sites that don't install crap on your machine. Some porn pages will install tacking **** on your machine, and THAT is not acceptable. Just because Microsoft can't make a browser work right doesn't meen they should all be able to track you.

But if they go to a page that doesn't install things to actually hurt the network, and it helps them be more productive....Then fine. I don't care if I have a few employees looking over a pink taco for 20 minutes if they will work better after relaxing for a minute.

I may have a different outlook on life than most people, but it works.

Vorlin -

Well I agree with you when you said that you think it is good when a woman can pay her own way and pay for her stuff. I totally 100% agree.

You must also remember that the woman isn't the only one at fault when she has a kids. You must also remember that just because a woman is single and she has kids doesn't mean she is a slut. I work in a place where it is predominately women working here and approximately 90% of employees here had their husband cheat on them and have been divorced. Now what should they do with their kids? They have deadbeat husbands and they need to provide a good life for their children. Now, what are the women with 4 and 5 kids supposed to do. The women work their fingers to the bone to barely buy but it is still not enough. These women do infact have harder live and not every women is knocked up before marriage.

Now, although I feel that woman with children if qualify should be helped I do not agree with them not working and I do not feel that they should get any better job or worse job from this fact. It also ****ing pisses that hell outa me when certian races or certain genders are descriminated for jobs.

But I don't feel that women are always at fault for getting pregnant. Guys will tell them they love them or force them into having sex and even though the girl does always want to she wants to please the man. So not all cases are the same.

- MilitantEidolon