Make AO a Pay Site

Hey Hey,

I don't know how well this suggestion will go over but it's an idea. Charge people a dollar in their local currency... or a USD, let them pay it through paypal, or like some of the free shell providers do, let them mail you a postcard.. just something to show a sincerity. It'd cut down on trolls, trouble makers and spammers. Don't charge to view forums and read threads.. just charge users to post on the site.

I don't know how well this will go over, or if I'd even support it myself... but I know I'd definately pay/send in a postcard to keep my account active.. and I'd like to see the trolls cut down on. We could even not include current members and just do it with future members.

Just a sugestion..... Opinions??

Peace,
HT

I would be 'go'. With people being able to see how the forums are they would know what happens once they join, so it's not like anybody should want thei dollar back :) But I agree, this should be done... I'm actually willing to pay the dollar even now, maybe asking everybody to do it would cause some trolls to quit, and some of the older accounts that were never used to become inactive [I guess a new status message, like Closed for Inactivity or Retired Member - for those that don't want to pay]

Even a system that allows you to reactivate your account at any time [provided it was closed due to one of the two reasons] for the people that would miss their e-mail notice or whatnot.

But I know that for overseas members the postage might cost more than the actual donation :) Anyway, I do not vote against this proposal [for what it's worth]

Heh. Who's gonna go through all those postcards. And I would have a problem with paying a little if I owned a credit card. But as I've heard lately there are a few younger people here so they may have a problem with the donation thing as well.

That would not be a good idea for a number of reason's. One being, if you want member's to come to your site, why charge them money for access to your site when they can simply just go to another site just like it for free? Catch my drift? Now, I wouldn't mind paying a dollar or ten to keep my account alive or whatever, but like I said there are a number of reasons not to implement this suggestion.

Is this not meant to be a place where anyone can come and ask questions related to computers and comp security when they are in need of help or just information. I know if i was in need of some quick help I would go to a free website and register on their forums rather than paying a dollar and waiting for it to go through before getting my membership and being able to ask for help.

Also if someone joined up and turned out to be a dickhead anyway and got banned. AO would be giving out refunds all over the place.

I dunno, I just like this site being free. :)

I also think when places like AO start of being free and open everyone loves them but as places become more about money and out for profit, people tend to start going elsewhere.

Just my thoughts.

I am going to have to agree with fyrewall on this one... We will never get new members (or hardly ever) if they can't just drop in and ask a question to get started.

But there are obvioulsy ways around that. Like a limited number of posts before you _have_ to register [like.. 50 or 100].

As for members getting banned, I don't think there should be a refund. First off, I would not use my real name or put a mailing address on the card... much like sdf.lonestar.org, if you get banned it's for misuse of account or failure to abide to site rules and so no refund required. But that could pose a bit of a legal issue if people get banned through APs and they decide it was uncalled for or whatever.

I don't have anything against the idea. I don't mind the way the site is now. After all, we need to give out some negs once in a while otherwise we get that message on the first page. And if this proves to be a problematic thing to implement... no biggie.

Im sorry, i had a drink and im not gonna rwead this now, but dont JupiterMedia make money off of as right now ? by us posting and visit their banner ? Im sorry but we can deal with trolls via moderators or ban them via AP...

im gonna read this threa ftoomorow again and re-think my post ....

cheers:)

Bla, this suggestion should get 'reddies'. Big NO NO. I cant afford to have dinner out of home...
If we should pay to access this site, then we should get paid for the tuts and info that we post on here. And whos to get the money if it becomes a pay site? JM? Mods? The mods might deserve some payment for their efforts... but thats not our problem. Its also not about the amount.. post card, $1, nothing of that sort, its about the idea in general. This site is what it is, due to its traffic and the way things have been going from the start. First it was JP, who gave us a site benefit of bannerless surfing, then when JM took over, they put the M$ banners all over the place... now you want the community to pay, watch their banners, and provide information? Nope.

Cheers.

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Death couldn't speak so he sent Died in his place
Heh. Who's gonna go through all those postcards. And I would have a problem with paying a little if I owned a credit card. But as I've heard lately there are a few younger people here so they may have a problem with the donation thing as well.

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Anyone can go through the post cards, hell AO can give out my address and I"ll go through the postcards for them.. I'd gladly volunteer that time in order to cut down on the number of trolls.

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So Sayeth the almighty Spider

That would not be a good idea for a number of reason's. One being, if you want member's to come to your site, why charge them money for access to your site when they can simply just go to another site just like it for free? Catch my drift? Now, I wouldn't mind paying a dollar or ten to keep my account alive or whatever, but like I said there are a number of reasons not to implement this suggestion.

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You only gave one reason, and it's only slightly valid... The number of new members that contribute something worthwhile is dropping... more and more we're seeing new members on the banned list. What other site are they going to? I can only think of a few sites that have the reputation that AO Has... and that's security-forms.com and Government security.org. GSec.org isn't accepting new registrations and SF.com isn't going to put up with the trolls that don't want to register here anyways...

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We've got another roadblock ... this time a fyrewall

Is this not meant to be a place where anyone can come and ask questions related to computers and comp security when they are in need of help or just information. I know if i was in need of some quick help I would go to a free website and register on their forums rather than paying a dollar and waiting for it to go through before getting my membership and being able to ask for help.

Also if someone joined up and turned out to be a dickhead anyway and got banned. AO would be giving out refunds all over the place.

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It's quite simple to say no refunds if you are banned by the members, you make that clear... As far as a place to come to ask computer related questions... That's a benefit of charging.. we won't have people joining with their one time computer related tech support questions... It'll benefit us, more than hurt us... Anyone serious about being here and discussing current topics will read what we're saying and see that it's worthwhile.... The people that don't want to pay to ask us how to boot their computer... well hey we don't want those kind of basic tech support questions any ways.. this is a computer security site... not TechSupportForums.com

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I can't think of anything to say so... Instronics

Bla, this suggestion should get 'reddies'. Big NO NO. I cant afford to have dinner out of home...
If we should pay to access this site, then we should get paid for the tuts and info that we post on here. And whos to get the money if it becomes a pay site? JM? Mods? The mods might deserve some payment for their efforts... but thats not our problem. Its also not about the amount.. post card, $1, nothing of that sort, its about the idea in general. This site is what it is, due to its traffic and the way things have been going from the start. First it was JP, who gave us a site benefit of bannerless surfing, then when JM took over, they put the M$ banners all over the place... now you want the community to pay, watch their banners, and provide information? Nope.

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Negged for a suggestion.. that's pretty harsh.. Also there's a big difference between a buck and a dinner out... If you don't like the idea and it's implemented.. then leave.. I think the majority of contributing people will be ok with it... As a student.. I've spent thousands of dollars on textbooks... and I've learned more from this site than I've ever learned from textbooks... It's not JPs site anymore.. who cares if he gave bannerless surfing.. There's plenty of ways to block the banners if you care that much... To get all of this site for free is an amazing deal.. to pay a buck for it is still a damn amazing deal....

Anyways.. the rest of the posts were just reiterations of this stuff...

Hypronix's comments about limiting posts before you register isn't a bad idea.. but you'd have to limit it to one post to ask a question.. and that'd be it.. but I don't know if I even like that idea.. You could register and make a post and do it again and again...

Anyways,... Peace,
HT

Off topic::

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The mods might deserve some payment for their efforts..

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I know Negative and MsM do, Ennis never got a cent ....and i heard he never saw the "Moderators Forum".....

:)

I woudlnt mind sendig some money to post here, but i wouldnt like the idea very much .....

yeah yeah, im sober somewhat....

I was thinking more along the lines of dead with the name. And stupid typos. It's supposed to say I wouldn't have a problem paying if I had a credit card.

Actually, as far as keeping out the trolls is concerned, I feel that the AP system more than does that job. However, in principle, I'd support paying a nominal amount. I'm not saying I will mind you, but only that I would support it in *theory*.

Cheers,
cgkanchi

I'm not too keen on this idea for existing members - I think I've been here long enough to prove I'm not a troll and have probably earned my way through all the ads I've seen/occassionally clicked on over the years. I also think it would act as a deterrant to genuine new users who don't want to hand over cash or who get to 49 posts and then see a message saying "right, you've got to pay if you want any more".

Personally, if this was implemented I can see the likely results being similar to what happened with PHP-Nuke when the main developer started charging for it - people will start their own project/site and splinter the community into the two groups.

if this would be an option, then it has to be accessable for people overseas and without a creditcard, i for one have no credit card, and if i would sent a postcard, it would cost a hell of a lot more, then if someone in the same country would do that...

but the only reason i would do this,is to keep the site alive, and show that the people who made this site possible that they've done a great job, but NOT to keep trolls out, i think the way it is now, that's more then enough to keep them out.... e.g. i haven't had one chance yet to give someone negative antipoints, so that means that the posts/ threads started aren't that bad to do something about it...

i'm perfectly happy as it is now, i'm a member of several other forums too, and this is the forums with the least trollies!

Too lazy to read the reply but I disagree.

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I don't know how well this will go over, or if I'd even support it myself...

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Just a sugestion..... Opinions??

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HTRegz, you came up with a suggestion (even you might not support?) and asked for feedback. When some members did not agree with you, you had to put in some childish responses to their suggestions.

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Death couldn't speak so he sent Died in his place

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So Sayeth the almighty Spider

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We've got another roadblock ... this time a fyrewall

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I can't think of anything to say so... Instronics

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If this is about all of the trolls here lately, then it is very simple. Don't feed the trolls or egg them on. They will eventually go away, or be sent on their way by the members.
If this about being a security site only and not tech support, then your suggestion will not solve the problem. Is this site only to be for professionals? If that is the case, then you would not have been able to participate and become a member. You started out with little knowledge, but benefited from others.

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If you don't like the idea and it's implemented.. then leave..

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How is this a constructive statement? Or do you just like to argue with the other members?

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When some members did not agree with you, you had to put in some childish responses to their suggestions.

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Yeah, I really didn't get the whole thing with that.

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So Sayeth the almighty Spider

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You alright dude? Ahh, whatever.

That's what's called "bad humour" as far as I am aware. I can spot it cause I'm so good at implementing it :)

Oh god!!! It's happening again.

ac

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Originally posted here by devpon
HTRegz, you came up with a suggestion (even you might not support?) and asked for feedback. When some members did not agree with you, you had to put in some childish responses to their suggestions.





If this is about all of the trolls here lately, then it is very simple. Don't feed the trolls or egg them on. They will eventually go away, or be sent on their way by the members.
If this about being a security site only and not tech support, then your suggestion will not solve the problem. Is this site only to be for professionals? If that is the case, then you would not have been able to participate and become a member. You started out with little knowledge, but benefited from others.



How is this a constructive statement? Or do you just like to argue with the other members?

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Hey Hey,

Um... it was supposed be a bunch of jokes... I had just gotten in from the bar and I was trying to be creative... so gothic_type guessed right. If ya don't like my idea of humour... too bad.

As far as telling people to leave if they don't like it.. it doesn't have to be constructive.. it was just honesty.. There are many people who have emphasized a dislike to this idea already and to be honest, they really wouldn't be missed... I was just saying if people don't like the idea and it's implemented they can leave the site.. it won't be the end of the world.

Peace,
HT

For that person who suggested you be charged after 50-100 posts-I disagree because it'll be easy to get around that by making a new account.
2nd of all I don't agree with the idea in general because they're some people who are underage (like me) who won't be able to pay and also some people who have economical problems and etc. AO gets money from the advertisments why do they want more? Can't anyone offer a free service and stick to it? Why does everything have to do with money now-a-days?

HTRegz: Ehh, it's alright man. I'm not good with humor ;).

Anyways, just one last "nod against" the suggestion. Wouldn't vBulletin (creator's of this type of forum) have something to say or whatnot that someone (or in this case, JUPM) is using their product to make money off of (aside from the ad's)? I'm just curious, it might not be the case, it might be, but I was just wondering that. I dunno if it's allowed or not, so I dunno.

If it were implemented though, I would pay for my account to stay. I wouldn't mind the small fee, no big harm. I just advise against making the move (especially for JUPM).

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
There are many people who have emphasized a dislike to this idea already and to be honest, they really wouldn't be missed...

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Aww, thanks, love you too. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted here by Spyder32
Wouldn't vBulletin (creator's of this type of forum) have something to say or whatnot that someone (or in this case, JUPM) is using their product to make money off of (aside from the ad's)? I'm just curious, it might not be the case, it might be, but I was just wondering that. I dunno if it's allowed or not, so I dunno.

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Looking at the license agreement, I can't see any rules that prohibit charging members for access to a site powered by vBulletin. The only caveat (other than where you can actually use the forums - e.g. only on one domain etc) relevant is the removal of the vBulletin copyright, which I presume someone at AO has paid the $120 fee for (unless of course the license has changed since then).

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
As far as telling people to leave if they don't like it.. it doesn't have to be constructive.. it was just honesty.. There are many people who have emphasized a dislike to this idea already and to be honest, they really wouldn't be missed... I was just saying if people don't like the idea and it's implemented they can leave the site.. it won't be the end of the world.

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Golly Gee.......I guess I wouldn't really be missed, and it definitately would not be the end of the world. I would come back and lurk and read, as long as they didn't charge for that.....for a while anyway.

'AO' already has the reputation of being elitist and unfriendly to newbies, so a little charge to be able to post here would just help that right along.

But if they are going to charge at all, why not take it all the way and cure some other problem at the same time. Just have a perpost charge. Say 10 cents per post. For some one that has made 1000 posts, Jupitor Media would make a cool $100.00 US. And if they were to charge $0.25 US per post, then they would make $250.00 per 1000 posts. Add to that what ever membership fee they would charge and they could be making alot of money off the post whores.

Of course they would probably lose most of their income from the advertisements they have on the site, as their click through rate would probably diminish drastically

Just my humble opinion of course.

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Originally posted here by moxnix
Golly Gee.......I guess I wouldn't really be missed, and it definitately would not be the end of the world. I would come back and lurk and read, as long as they didn't charge for that.....for a while anyway.

'AO' already has the reputation of being elitist and unfriendly to newbies, so a little charge to be able to post here would just help that right along.

But if they are going to charge at all, why not take it all the way and cure some other problem at the same time. Just have a perpost charge. Say 10 cents per post. For some one that has made 1000 posts, Jupitor Media would make a cool $100.00 US. And if they were to charge $0.25 US per post, then they would make $250.00 per 1000 posts. Add to that what ever membership fee they would charge and they could be making alot of money off the post whores.

Of course they would probably lose most of their income from the advertisements they have on the site, as their click through rate would probably diminish drastically

Just my humble opinion of course.

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Hey Hey,

I never said everyone that wouldn't pay would be missed... that's misrepresenting what I say... As for as being elitist and unfriendly... only to those who are idiots or come looking for tech support.

As far as charging per post.. I never said to make this a pay site... but more a sign of good faith... a way to keep out the trolls.. The mods can only do so much.. and APs are becoming useless.. take for example quad's SBG persona... It shouldn't have made it through the first week.. but because it's quad and he has friends in high places.. he's stuck around... everytime you neg him someone balances him back because they like him.. If he had to pay a buck everytime he got banned. he wouldn't keep coming back to cause trouble.. .. That's why I think this is a viable solution.

Peace,
HT

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Looking at the license agreement, I can't see any rules that prohibit charging members for access to a site powered by vBulletin.

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Yeah, like I said I didn't know much about that and I didn't wanna go looking for the whole big issue either. Thanks pwaring for finding out the information, I was just a little confused about it. As for the copyright, I see it at the bottom of the page. Don't you?

I got a thinking about this, and i was thinking that maybe if JupMedia enabled it so that those that would like to contribute to the site with donation of a certain amount, then those members that contribute should recieve added site benifit's for instance a new forum that only contributors could post in.
Maybe some sort of added benifit like a Irc channel or something..
Just something unique that way there's an incentive to make a donation as you know that your going to get something in return..
And maybe they could get rid of those ugly banners for the contributers.

Sorry if this don't make no sense, but i'm extremely Hung Over and my Brain is still warming up..

cheers big ears
front2back:.

Hmm... That is a good idea... Like a paypal donation thingy somewhere like a lot of free software developers have, and then the people who do that have access to the IRC channel... That would be really awesome, the return of the IRC without trolls and various other dumbasses.

How goes this exactly eliminate trolls and "other desirables" if they have money too?

Personally, I don't like the idea and have strong doubts as to how well it will fly. We have many users who come here as students. I don't know if many of you remember student life but it's a rather poor existence these days. Some of these do contribute a lot to the site. I think that this would be far more detrimental to the site than beneficial.

I would pay if I had to, but I'd dead against the idea. FFS, I've got £20 to last me for the next maybe 2 weeks. I can ask my parents for cash if I really need it, but I don't want to. And I'm one of the better off students.

ac

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Oh my posts are so grand that these sons of bitches should pay to talk or be in association with me

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Woohoo! Oh yeah! lets make AO even more money whoreing than usual... if thats even a possability.

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HT you've mentioned this once already haven't you? Without "trolls"... where would all the general chit **** come from? What about the redundant & endless amounts of tech-support questions? Crap... we would have nothing to talk about. Jesus man, kinda odd considering that just a few days ago someone was yapping about the hits being lower than they were about two to three years back. If a few ads and a new logo has cause so much bitching & moaning then what do you think will happen when it involves what's inside member's pockets?

How about t-shirts and mugs? Atleast you'd be getting something out of it. I've gone to plenty of confrences & meetings and things and the t-shirts there to those types of things in Atlanta usually go for $10, $20, or above per shirt/mug/(ect). I'll be honest... I get nothing out of posting here except entertainment and as far as entertainment goes I can get everything from music, movies, games, & porn for free right off the world wide web. Atleast by selling stuff with a AO logo on it you'd be getting something.

Hey Hey,

Why does everyone keep bringing up getting something for your money, I never once said this was a money making idea.. it was suggestion for getting rid of trolls... that was all...

How does it get rid of trolls? IMO they have better things to do than buy a postcard and send it away, or go to pay pal and pay a buck just so they can harass people... they may have no lives... but they don't have so little of lives that they'd waste their time doing that.

As far as students go... I'm one of the lowest income students at my college.. I make less than $500 a month and pay for everything out of my own pocket... on top of that I'm already almost $40,000 in debt... and I'm still willing to do it...

I personally think that many of the people that don't support it are just cheap... or lazy... but that if it came down to it.. many people would pay rather than lose this site. The sad part is that many of the people around here couldn't live without AO because it's the only friends they have... so I'm sure they'd pay to come back.... As far as the newbies... screw them.. Most of them are computer geeks... If they can pay 4.95 for 24 hours of access to a porn site they could damn well pay a buck to access a site that'd be beneficial to them.. if not... let them go elsewhere.. It's no secret that I dislike most newbies... they either CnP or they post pure ****... very seldom is there one that posts anything that's pleasurable to read.

Peace,
HT

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Originally posted here by Spyder32
As for the copyright, I see it at the bottom of the page. Don't you?

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Hmm, I'm fairly sure it didn't use to be there when JP ran the site. Then again, I never scroll down to the very bottom of the page anyway. :)

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Originally posted here by MsMittens
I don't know if many of you remember student life but it's a rather poor existence these days.

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Indeed it is - a third of students over here pay £1000+ per year for tuition (it used to be free until the government abolished grants and introduced tuition fees) plus they get into at least £3000 more debt for each year they study as a result of loans. Asking for a few pounds to sign up to AO might not seem like much, but when you're paying £200+/month for a house and have no source of income other than parents and the government (who expect the money back now that grants have gone) every penny counts.

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
As far as students go... I'm one of the lowest income students at my college.. I make less than $500 a month and pay for everything out of my own pocket... on top of that I'm already almost $40,000 in debt... and I'm still willing to do it...

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$500/month is a relatively high amount of money, most people I know don't make that much (and things are generally more expensive over here as well).

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I personally think that many of the people that don't support it are just cheap... or lazy...

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Just because you're prepared to stump up the money doesn't mean that everyone who isn't is cheap or lazy.

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It's no secret that I dislike most newbies... they either CnP or they post pure ****... very seldom is there one that posts anything that's pleasurable to read.

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We were all newbies originally - if everyone thought the same way you seem to we wouldn't have any new members.

Hey Hey,

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$500/month is a relatively high amount of money, most people I know don't make that much (and things are generally more expensive over here as well).

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How do you figure $500 a month is a relatively high amount of money? I'm not talking USD...
If you want to convert it that's $382 USD or 204 British Pounds.

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Just because you're prepared to stump up the money doesn't mean that everyone who isn't is cheap or lazy

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Then you tell me what they are.

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Indeed it is - a third of students over here pay £1000+ per year for tuition (it used to be free until the government abolished grants and introduced tuition fees) plus they get into at least £3000 more debt for each year they study as a result of loans. Asking for a few pounds to sign up to AO might not seem like much, but when you're paying £200+/month for a house and have no source of income other than parents and the government (who expect the money back now that grants have gone) every penny counts.

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£1000 -- That's roughly what I pay in tuition... not including books, housing, a laptop (required for school), or anything else... my gf's tuition is closer to £1300 if you want to convert. Our appt is £448, combined phone bills £106... Add credit card bills (which I used to live off), interest on stuent loans and everything else. Our government severly limits how much money they'll loan you... Asking for a few pounds is a lil more than I said.... I dunno what unit of measure you use.. but I believe it's roughly 2 : 1 for USD .. .so I'd say it's more like 1/2 a pound...

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We were all newbies originally - if everyone thought the same way you seem to we wouldn't have any new members.

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I said most newbies.... look at how many people register at this site and how many stick around long enough to last on these forums... not many...if we cut out the ones that'll ask one or two tech support questions and leave... .then hey.. we're saving ourselves a headache..

Peace,
HT

I'm poor. But you could probably care less if I'm here or not. I guess I'm not the ideal member. I have a small network I run at home and I'll probably never see an IT job. It's really just a hobby. But, I do enjoy every bit of knowledge I get from reading these forums and if I had to I would find some way to pay whatever I need to pay to stay here just like I do what I have to do to keep my cable line.

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Originally posted here by NemorY
Off topic::



I know Negative and MsM do, Ennis never got a cent ....and i heard he never saw the "Moderators Forum".....

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I dont deserve money for this site, I havent even talked to any of the Admins or anything. I'm pretty much a member who can close threads.

On a side note, I'm sorry but this is a horrible idea. Any more corporate and this site may as well open a McDonalds forum.

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
How do you figure $500 a month is a relatively high amount of money? I'm not talking USD...
If you want to convert it that's $382 USD or 204 British Pounds.

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Most people I know don't earn £200+/month, and that's without taking into account the fact that stuff often costs a lot more over here (for example, your equivalent to VAT appears to be 7%, whereas ours is 17.5%).

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Then you tell me what they are.

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They aren't anything in particular. They're just people who don't want to fork out money to register/post on a web site.

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£1000 -- That's roughly what I pay in tuition... not including books, housing, a laptop (required for school), or anything else

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Yes, my fees don't include any of that stuff either.

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Our appt is £448, combined phone bills £106... Add credit card bills (which I used to live off), interest on stuent loans and everything else. Our government severly limits how much money they'll loan you... Asking for a few pounds is a lil more than I said.... I dunno what unit of measure you use.. but I believe it's roughly 2 : 1 for USD .. .so I'd say it's more like 1/2 a pound...

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Without going into specifics, suffice to say that the place I live in costs about the same if not more than yours - and the UK government isn't exactly generous when it comes to loaning money either. As for the conversion rate, you obviously haven't seen the prices of American goods over here. It does not just depend on the exchange rate - to take an example of a micro-payment it costs 70p to buy a song from the iTunes store yet only $0.99 in the US. Oh, and don't forget the fact that people have to pay a commission to change money (either that or get "free" conversion with a poorer exchange rate). You can't just say "well, it's $1 so that will automatically be 50p because that's what the exhange rate".

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I said most newbies.... look at how many people register at this site and how many stick around long enough to last on these forums... not many...

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All the more reason to encourage those few to stay then. Surely if so few people stick around then implementing a scheme that would discourage people even more is a bad idea?

Ugh... To take this back out of the realm of who's dick is bigger contast between Pawring and HT.

I will say it is a bad, idea. There are plenty of other ways to get trolls to disappear or limit the amount atleast. The AP system does a good job of that.

In the event that this ever did become a site where you would have to pay. I for one, would be turning my server into a webserver as well.

I am going to be 100% honest I will not pay for a site, that I have written tutorials for and clicked on more than enough of those ugly ass ads.
Though I understand this is a means of getting rid of trolls.
This would then bring up another question from members.

"Well I paid my money, so why don't I get to have 2 accounts, I paid for both."

Turning AO into a pay site, would probably also kill, a lot of incoming members even if there was a grace period for your account, before you had to pay.

bad idea, this is just a way to keep out thousands of people who could have been decent members. say someone decent finds this site through google, realizes you have to pay or do something other than veryify account through email, and goes "Wow, **** this"

I say thats what would happen.