Racial Profiling or Protecting our Country - Which is More Important?

The lengths that our politicians go to in order to not (God forbid) hurt another race's feelings will be the end of the United States. I highly recommend you read this story - all three parts! It will scare the sh*t out of you.

Terror in the Skies, Again? Parts I, II, & III

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Terror in the Skies, Again?

By Annie Jacobsen

A WWS Exclusive Article


Note from the E-ditors: You are about to read an account of what happened during a domestic flight that one of our writers, Annie Jacobsen, took from Detroit to Los Angeles. The WWS Editorial Team debated long and hard about how to handle this information and ultimately we decided it was something that should be shared. What does it have to do with finances? Nothing, and everything. Here is Annie's story.

On June 29, 2004, at 12:28 p.m., I flew on Northwest Airlines flight #327 from Detroit to Los Angeles with my husband and our young son. Also on our flight were 14 Middle Eastern men between the ages of approximately 20 and 50 years old. What I experienced during that flight has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats.

....Then another man from the group stood up and took something from his carry-on in the overhead bin. It was about a foot long and was rolled in cloth. He headed toward the back of the cabin with the object. Five minutes later, several more of the Middle Eastern men began using the forward lavatory consecutively. In the back, several of the men stood up and used the back lavatory consecutively as well.

For the next hour, the men congregated in groups of two and three at the back of the plane for varying periods of time. Meanwhile, in the first class cabin, just a foot or so from the cockpit door, the man with the dark suit - still wearing sunglasses - was also standing. Not one of the flight crew members suggested that any of these men take their seats.

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On September 21, as the remains of thousands of Americans lay smoldering at Ground Zero,

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[Secretary of Transportation Norman] Mineta fired off a letter to all U.S. airlines forbidding them from implementing the one security measure that could have prevented 9/11: subjecting Middle Eastern passengers to an added degree of pre-flight scrutiny. He sternly reminded the airlines that it was illegal to discriminate against passengers based on their race, color, national or ethnic origin or religion.

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Jeez, this is SCARY reading.
America's greatest strength, is also her greatest weakness..............FREEDOM.

It is something worthy of fighting for, but, unfortunateley, bureaucracy will strangle your country, even quicker than it is sufocating ours (UK)

I got the following, I cannot remember where from. Please don't think I am making fun of a serious situation, it just sums up your problem.

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Profiling
To ensure we Americans never offend anyone - particularly fanatics intent on killing us - airport screeners will not be allowed to profile people. They will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail and 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips.
Let's pause a moment and take the following test.

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:

(a) Norwegians from Ballard
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Crazed feminists complaining that being able to throw a grenade beyond its own burst radius was an unfair and sexist requirement in basic training
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.



In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

(a) Luca Brazzi, for not being given a part in "Godfather 2"
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch and Sundance who had a few sticks of dynamite left over from the train mission
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed by:

(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida trying to outdo their attempted hijacking of the 2000 Presidential election
(c) Mr. Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

Hmm... Nope, ain't no patterns here!

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And as a final reminder to those who complain that the extra security is taking too long.........

If your first name is Mohammed, and your surname AINT Ali.
Then be prepared for some 'time wasting' security.

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Originally posted here by foxyloxley

Please don't think I am making fun of a serious situation, it just sums up your problem.

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No offense taken. This is true...satire is often very effective in pointing out our shortcomings.

Something Margret Thatcher said.

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All attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail. It must be business as usual

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As the aim of terrorism is to terrorise. Give into fear and you will have lost the fight against terror. So business must be as normal.

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Fighting terrorism is like being a goalkeeper. You can make a hundred brilliant saves but the only shot that people remember is the one that gets past you.

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--Paul Wilkinson (b. 1937) British scholar

I agree that business should carry on as usual. However, do you not think it to be prudent to risk (sarcasm) hurting the feelings of a certain race as a precautionary measure that could save hundreds or thousands of lives?

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However, do you not think it to be prudent to risk (sarcasm) hurting the feelings of a certain race as a precautionary measure that could save hundreds or thousands of lives?

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Hrmm... so what about gays and drug users who carry AIDS?

What about bad parents that will kill their kids or abuse their partners?

What about the Chinese with the nuclear bomb (or any other nation with a nuclear bomb)?

What about local militias (or was Oklahama just a blip that everyone "jus' plump forgit")?

While people are looking at those of Middle Eastern decent, others are coming in the back door. Rather than targetting one race, why not just be paranoid about everyone? IIRC, one member of the Taliban (?) was a white american (what was his name again?)

Yes but where do you draw the line?
Also, it is not what you know and see, that represents a danger. It is what you do not know and see.

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Originally posted here by MsMittens
Hrmm... so what about gays and drug users who carry AIDS?

What about bad parents that will kill their kids or abuse their partners?

What about the Chinese with the nuclear bomb (or any other nation with a nuclear bomb)?

What about local militias (or was Oklahama just a blip that everyone "jus' plump forgit")?

While people are looking at those of Middle Eastern decent, others are coming in the back door. Rather than targetting one race, why not just be paranoid about everyone? IIRC, one member of the Taliban (?) was a white american (what was his name again?)

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Gays, drug users, bad parents, nations with nuclear bombs: these are not groups who have a history of boarding planes and taking out US targets and people.

Local militias? Yes, they are profiled. However, because they are typically white....you don't see the government pissing itself if they complain. In addition, they aren't backed by radical minority protection groups and those of that ilk.

I'm sure that Japanese interrment camps started off as a fairly innocuous idea to preserve America's safety as well. The point of being American is the fact that our citizens are free to live their lives. ALL of our citizens.

In this case (and many others like it) these Muslims were not citizens. Furthermore, they had expired visa.

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Gays, drug users, bad parents, nations with nuclear bombs: these are not groups who have a history of boarding planes and taking out US targets and people.

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That is not quite the point. It is the level of paranioa that the fear of terror can instill. Once you go down the road of racial profiling and subjecting those that fit a profile, to special treatment. Where does it stop?

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....Then another man from the group stood up and took something from his carry-on in the overhead bin. It was about a foot long and was rolled in cloth. He headed toward the back of the cabin with the object. Five minutes later, several more of the Middle Eastern men began using the forward lavatory consecutively. In the back, several of the men stood up and used the back lavatory consecutively as well.

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Apoint about the above. Perhaps it was there time to pray. Muslims wash before prayer. There could be a hundred reasons for the behavior described.

I have entered the United States 3 times as a non-citizen. All Belgian airports flying to the US must have special halls for passengers leaving for the US, where all passengers must be checked and double-checked. Every third passenger (with no distinction of race, age, or whatever) has his entire luggage checked thoroughly (takes over 15 minutes, with detailed questions about anything in your luggage that doesn't look "normal"). People with an expired visum / passport aren't even allowed to board the plane (the reason: the US has gigantic fines for airlines who "drop off" passengers without a visa / passport, comparable to the UK fines for truckers who bring in illegals). Every passenger is very thoroughly questioned (and not just the normal "who packed your luggage?" questions).

At my third entrance, I was almost sent back in New York because the officer thought that me entering the States three times within 6 months was extremely suspicous. If I wouldn't have convinced him, he would have send me back without a doubt, without a question.

Belgium is one of the "good" countries on the US list: we don't even need a visum to enter the US; just a passport. But I can almost guarantee you that never ever a Belgian has entered the US with an expired passport (you wouldn't be allowed to leave in the first place, but if you would immigration - all non-US citizens have to pass immigration - would send you back immediately).

Soooo... where do you draw the line? You are allowed to enter the US without valid documents if you're muslim? And you're not if you're European? Racial profiling, eh...

This is one of those cases where the "good" guys have to pay for the "bad" guys... but the bad guys get away with it.

I do not disagree with what you are saying Negative.
Friends of mine that have visited the states have been subjected to unfriendly treatment. Everyone should be subjected to the same security checks, not to do so is a lack of security.

Exactly. I don't have a problem with me being thoroughly checked. But I do think it is a problem when others don't get thoroughly checked, regardless of their age/race/color/religion.

This is exactly the same as positive discrimination: it's not fair. I am all for everybody having the same rights as I do, but I can not agree with people getting more rights only because of their race/color/religion. Same rights - same obligations.

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=260551

It's not just Muslims that get the preferential trreatment.
America seems to be frightened of its own shadow, when it comes to offending those of a minority.

And in the UK, there is a news story now of how gypsies can flout the law at will.

It never ends:

[edit] possible answer: shoot the lawyers........ :shootem: [/edit]

Yups, that's - imo - the exact same. If police officers have to be afraid of being sued for arresting someone who is breaking the law, then that's pretty sad. If law enforcers have to be afraid of being sued for checking someone's passport, then that's pretty sad.
Law enforcers are there to enforce the law, not to enforce the law on a select few.

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Originally posted here by Negative
I have entered the United States 3 times as a non-citizen. All Belgian airports flying to the US must have special halls for passengers leaving for the US, where all passengers must be checked and double-checked. Every third passenger (with no distinction of race, age, or whatever) has his entire luggage checked thoroughly (takes over 15 minutes, with detailed questions about anything in your luggage that doesn't look "normal"). People with an expired visum / passport aren't even allowed to board the plane (the reason: the US has gigantic fines for airlines who "drop off" passengers without a visa / passport, comparable to the UK fines for truckers who bring in illegals). Every passenger is very thoroughly questioned (and not just the normal "who packed your luggage?" questions).

At my third entrance, I was almost sent back in New York because the officer thought that me entering the States three times within 6 months was extremely suspicous. If I wouldn't have convinced him, he would have send me back without a doubt, without a question.

Belgium is one of the "good" countries on the US list: we don't even need a visum to enter the US; just a passport. But I can almost guarantee you that never ever a Belgian has entered the US with an expired passport (you wouldn't be allowed to leave in the first place, but if you would immigration - all non-US citizens have to pass immigration - would send you back immediately).

Soooo... where do you draw the line? You are allowed to enter the US without valid documents if you're muslim? And you're not if you're European? Racial profiling, eh...

This is one of those cases where the "good" guys have to pay for the "bad" guys... but the bad guys get away with it.

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Don't worry they were just making sure no Doogie Howser MD.MA or GHB was coming aboard. I read the whole CIA report as well as the Netherlands report. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/nl.html


Racial profiling by law enforcement personnel is common sense, IMHO you could call it being street smart.

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Originally posted here by foxyloxley
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=260551

It's not just Muslims that get the preferential trreatment.
America seems to be frightened of its own shadow, when it comes to offending those of a minority.

And in the UK, there is a news story now of how gypsies can flout the law at will.

It never ends:

[edit] possible answer: shoot the lawyers........ :shootem: [/edit]

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You can say that America is afraid of it's own shadow, if you give the shadow a name. Such as the ACLU. I think that America is more afraid of the Trial Lawyers that rip the shirt from our backs, because someone made a comment that can be construed/misconstrued as a racist comment or because someone slipped on a packet of ketchup. Not to mention that Americans don't want to spend their time in court when they could be watching sports or drinking. :D That is, of course, unless the American happens to be a Trial Lawyer or the Plantiff.

Thats funny. Reading some posts here, I (as a foreigner) can clear see that USA should see USA citizens as "good boy and non-USA citizens(non white in special) are "possible threats".

Ive read some months ago (trying to recover the news) that statistically, most of the terrorist attacks done at USA lands were done my American citizens, ordering by:
a) number of attacks or
b) number of victms

and most were done by white people. So "profiling" terrorists should be:
a) American white ppl
b) age 17:40
c) male

As a foreigner, i cant understand why a foreigner must get almost nacked to prove "his intention" to the customs and an american can (or could) carry a knife on an airplane.

99,99% middle-east air-flight passengers are ordinary ppl.
can you be sure that 99% of americans passenger are ordinary ppl, too?

I believe in more security on airports (or other ways to enter in a country). But smarter.

Using that idea, if a terrorist team wants to do something bad on USA, just hire some white men and do whatever they want. American mercenarys have a good price on market now...

We are not trying to be "fair". I can't even think of an Airport I have processed through that was "fair" at screening all passegners exactly the same, in a dozen countries. Any white Erupean decendent white guys on those planes? Any undiscovered terrorist cells in the country still? Any muslim communities in this country hiding the cells? Any mosques preaching American hatred on American soil? Anyone remember the democrats hounding the president to ACT? Anyone consider we are at war with a muslim country, perhaps elevated security is normal? Air travel is necessary to maintain commerce. There is NO possible way to screen everyone. Heck I can't even go from here to California without being screened because of these bastards who call themselves men of god.

I say a body cavity search for anyone entering the U.S., that'd make the bleeding hearts happy, cause no one is being singled-out. It'd make the "secure our homeland" people happy, cause everybody (literally) would get checked. And it'd really make the gays happy plus a whole lot of women, cause who'd mind a good ol' reaming out?

hehehe

All kidding aside, you SHOULD have to prove your intentions if you want to enter this country, especially now. No profiling necessary because if you start making rules for it then those that want to beat you will make exceptions for those rules. Haven't we at least learned THAT?

Example: Gun laws don't work because those that would follow the LAW aren't the ones you really need to worry about, now are they?

MSM, John Walker

As for the rest of this, I think that the police should be allowed to do their job, and if that means profiling a specific group so be it.

I can also see the other side of the fence that, if this is allowed to be commonplace, then the next policy put in place will be more restrictive, and we'll be ok with that. Freedom, should be exactly that. Thatcher was a wonderful lady, and very smart. If we do anything else other than business as usual, that IMO is letting them win, and thats unacceptable.

if this conversation took place here a couple years ago most of us would be jumping up and down on the side of the individuals rights but i think most people realize the fact that we are at war and the rules have changed for the duration. IMO those that don’t like it are those that would see us fail.

This whole thing about political correctness no longer has anything to do with fact but has gone over into the realm of personal perception, or should I say personal distortion as evidenced here:


http://www.wftv.com/news/3614717/detail.html

EAST LYME, Conn. -- The ghostly white scarecrows on Joseph Smith's cornfield frightened more than the geese he was trying to scare away.

The scarecrows so closely resembled Ku Klux Klan garb that they sparked complaints from minority guards and visitors at a nearby prison.

Workers on Smith's farm made the scarecrows last week out of the white, hooded environmental suits they wear to spray the crops. Soon after, administrators at the J.B. Gates Correctional Institution began receiving complaints.

Smith's wife, Terri Smith, said the entire episode was a misunderstanding.

"We were just trying to scare away the geese," she said. "We're like the most non-racist people you'd ever meet."

The Mexican seasonal workers on the farm have tried several tactics to keep the geese away from the corn. Because the prison is close by, the workers cannot fire guns or use other loud sounds like they do on another property they farm.


The scarecrows have been removed.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

maybe they'd like he stoped spraying the crops as well or buy new suits!?!

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IMO those that don’t like it are those that would see us fail.

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That's a rather broad assumption. Perhaps those that don't like it still believe in some of the things that made the US what it is today: a nation that believed in the rights of the individual over the State. So perhaps we should allow the State full access to everything we do -- perhaps going to a Communist state would be best?

I wonder what your view would be if it was happening to you? Personally I'd be more concerned with so much attention being given to Middle Eastern terrorists, that local homegrown varieties might be doing something worse -- and no one is noticing. If you are going to provide security and be paranoid it should be broad and cover all the bases.

I mean heck. Look at computer security. We talk about layers of security. We don't just target virus writers or DoSers. We go after them all, regardless of whether they are inside or outside the company. So why should it be any different when dealing with terrorists? IMO, a terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of whether they are an arab, chinese, white or purple with pink polka dots.

If one wants to remove the rights of the individual to protect the many (the old Vulcan/Star Trek quote: The Lives of the Many out weight the Lives of the Few) then do it broadly. Otherwise, something will be missed (it becomes a half-assed job).

dont you think that there are differant rules for war time than there are in times of peace. or maybe we should forget about the thousands of people out there that would literally give their lives to get into this country and murder as many as the could without exception or remorse.

would it make you happy if the defense department spent a day or two just pulling over and checking out volvos driven by eskimos? what makes you think the fbi has forgotten about the home grown terrorists. i mean just because its not a front page headline doesn't mean its not being acted upon.

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dont you think that there are differant rules for war time than there are in times of peace. or maybe we should forget about the thousands of people out there that would literally give their lives to get into this country and murder as many as the could without exception or remorse.

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You're misunderstanding me. If you are going to do profiling about potential people being terrorists (or the enemy) you had better check everyone. In this day and age, culture and religion are not necessarily the only definers. It takes only one local terrorist (white home boy) to screw up the whole concept of racial profiling. Try telling it to those that died in Oklahoma at the hands of a local terrorist. I wonder how many more militias are growing because of the government's over-involvement in their individual lives?

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youd it make you happy if the defense department spent a day or two just pulling over and checking out volvos driven by eskimos? what makes you think the fbi has forgotten about the home grown terrorists. i mean just because its not a front page headline doesn't mean its not being acted upon

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There isn't that much of a budget to go around. There are limitations to resources and such. And given the attention to profiling (it is happening, it is out there, that's reality), I wouldn't be surprised if local terrorists aren't being given the attention they should. I'm hoping I'm wrong because it would sadden me to no end to see anything else like Oklahoma or the Embassy attacks or the Twin Tower attacks but I worry about this. Last time I checked, the Government, FBI, DoD, CIA, NSA, etc., were all humans. And humans are falliable.

Something is going to slip somewhere. And someone is going to get hurt. No amount of racial profiling will stop that.

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
dont you think that there are differant rules for war time than there are in times of peace. or maybe we should forget about the thousands of people out there that would literally give their lives to get into this country and murder as many as the could without exception or remorse.

youd it make you happy if the defense department spent a day or two just pulling over and checking out volvos driven by eskimos? what makes you think the fbi has forgotten about the home grown terrorists. i mean just because its not a front page headline doesn't mean its not being acted upon

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I'm with you Tedob. I am surprised that nobody seems to understand this is war - not just every day ho-hum-let's-see-what-race-we-can-discriminate-against tactics (as the liberals would call it).

I doubt there are few...VERY few on AO who are more conservative than me (I know who they are). I am not a Republican. I am ALL for less government and more individual rights. Yet I favor racial and terroristic profiling - regardless of color/nationality/religion during this War on Terrorism.

Can you guys honestly say if you were going down in a plane and it was going to crash due to terrorists, that the thoughts running through your head would be...."Well...thank God (oops we can't say that), thank gosh nobody had their feelings hurt while going through security checkpoints and boarding the plane!!!!"

With in the past two months here in paterson nj the “tax assessors “ have been going into each and every house. Opening every door and looking in ever closet although the plans with every change ever made are on public record. Paterson is al-quida camp usa. I also travel allot, my g/f is a travel agent and we both have undergone extensive searchs unlike anything ive experienced before….im glad they’re doing their job. it's nothing personal. im polish and shes italian. nobody says well its obvious you not arabs just get along now. my car is pulled over at bridges and tunnels. looked under with mirrors on sticks and faces threw the windows...would you mind opening the trunk. its not just arabs that are being singled out but i would imagine more attention is paid when arabs fitting the discription are inspected...at least i hope thats the case.

Here's a question for everyone: do you actually pay attention to those around you and what they do? What I mean is, what are you doing to detect terrorists? We know it's a huge job and part of making it "easier" is to do racial profiling. But could you pick out a terrorist out of the crowd? Would you really know what a terrorist looks like? Are YOU actually paying attention to those around you?

Or do you assume the government will be able to find them all with "racial profiling"?

I do watch my students. I have a lot that are from other nations (China, Tiawan, Korea, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Ethiopia, etc.). I pay attention to what and who they associate with. Those that isolate themselves are the ones to be concerned with, IMO, regardless of colour, religion, etc.

Tedob1, that's what I would expect a government at war to do. Not single anyone out. You never know where the enemy is. Now, while some might get more attention, they shouldn't be the sole focus of attention.

I'm pretty paranoid. I pay attention to everything and everyone...be it in a time of war or otherwise. :)

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Originally posted here by mathgirl32
I'm with you Tedob. I am surprised that nobody seems to understand this is war - not just every day ho-hum-let's-see-what-race-we-can-discriminate-against tactics (as the liberals would call it).

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What’s funny is the fact that they don’t realize it is a war because our government is doing a great job.

i was listening on talk radio a night or two ago and libs were calling in to the mark levin show saying the latest terror warning were nothing more than bush trying to win votes. they didn't think that terrorism was really something to be concerned about in this country because the terrorists infrastructure was just about wiped out.

when asked if they felt safer today than they felt four years ago the said "no!"... go figure.

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Here's a question for everyone: do you actually pay attention to those around you and what they do?

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We aren't talking about people standing in line for a Starbucks. We are talking about gateways of entry. "Control" points so to speak. Having said that, if the guy who happened to be white, sipped a latte with Bob the dentist and he said something about packing his Uhaul with 1000 pounds of Nitrates, I would go "hmmmm" Perspective is in order?

If a black man broke out of prison and an hour later a Green Jeep was reported stolen, it would make sense to "profile" ANY black men driving green jeeps. The race isn't the issue, perhaps it's circumstance and rational facts.

In the UK, we had the IRA, the anti-terorism laws used then are still enforced today.
As far as racial profiling goes, just try and sort the wheat from the chaff when the terrorists are / were your own genetic code.

We survived that, and YOU will survive this.
You HAVE to take the long view, the terrorists WILL be defeated purely by time...... Government agencys have the longest memories..........

Remember the US air traffic controllers strikes when Mr Reagen was your President ?

Do ANY of the sacked ATC personnel work within the government yet..........?

In the meanwhile you have to maintain a vigilence that is TOTALLY alien to your lifestyle.

Someone mentioned the Japanese internment during WWII.
No German internment though............

In the final analysis though, the USofA maintains WMD that could be used to end the breeding grounds for those that wish you harm, once and for all. But they do not..........

Would any one care to lay odds on how long the terrorist finger would stay off the button if they had the choice ?

Iraq is a case in point: He (Saddam) implied that HE held the key to your downfall, and he paid the price.

People say that if Iraq didn't have the oil, then there wouldn't have been ANY Gulf wars.
But this misses the point, in that if he didn't have oil, he wouldn't have had the money to strut around on the world stage for so long.

And once again, I've forgotten whether I'm of topic or ranting..........

Time for a :drink:

To sum up:
Stay calm, life goes on.
Be vigilant, someone, somewhere IS being a tw*t.
Have patience, the governments of the FREE world are NOT stupid (although they do a DAMN good impression).
Keep the faith.

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No German internment though............

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That is often brought up. Some thoughts.... Germany didn't attack us directly without provocation. Their eyes were on Europe, the Japanese eyes were on our west coast. They were intent on expansion. Sure the Germans could have attacked us later, but I doubt it. The world would have seen 3 superpowers for a time until on or 2 were inhilated. Hard to imagine a united Europe under the fist of the swastika.

The Germans did attack us for our help supplying the allied powers but my statement stands. The wolf packs were devastating and German intelligence did touch our borders. I could argue that Japanese aggression at expansion was the cause, but perhaps it was a misunderstanding of the culture and the inability for Japanese to mesh and absorb Americana as well as Germans? Much like today, existing pockets of multiple ethnicity with no intent on joining our or learning this culture outside of geographical boundaries.

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Originally posted here by RoadClosed
If a black man broke out of prison and an hour later a Green Jeep was reported stolen, it would make sense to "profile" ANY black men driving green jeeps. The race isn't the issue, perhaps it's circumstance and rational facts.

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Great point! This is exactly what people refuse to consider. It's just logic. It's not "personal".

Mel:

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It's just logic.

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But you forget, my dear..... Logic is alien to those who think with their heart rather than their mind. It's so terrible to be picking on people because they fit a profile...... :rolleyes:

If any of those who are against profiling _thought_ for one friggin' second you would understand that law enforcement profile _every_ minute of every day in a way that you find utterly acceptable. Allow me to clarify.......

The suspect is a white male, approximately 30 years old with blond hair and a mustache. He is approxomately 5' 10" and 180 pounds.

Hmmmm..... If you look really carefully at that you will see a _profile_. There are probably more than 100,000 people in the USA that fit that profile and the police will stop every person fitting the profile that they find in order to catch the criminal. But you don't have a problem with that do you?

Let's try again:-

The suspect is a white female, approximately 20 years old, 5' 4" and 100 pounds.

Anything wrong with that? No, of course not.

Again:-

The suspect is a black male, approximately 30 years old, 6' 2" tall"

Anything wrong with that? No, of course not......

Again:-

The suspect is a white male approximately 45 years old.

Is there a problem here? You decide........

What about:-

The suspect is a white female

Problems?

Finally:-

The suspect is black.

Can we see the pattern yet?

The argument is one of detail and that is all. Profiling is all fine and dandy as long as a given level of detail comes with it. Then profiling is good. But once the level of detail drops below a given level it becomes bad...... How can that be? We are being given all the information available and asked to locate an individual, or individuals, based on that information. Terrorists, by nature, are secretive and tend not to advertise themselves thus the level of detail regarding them is minimal and often can be only as little at "of arabic descent".

What the bleeding hearts are saying by whining about profiling is that we shouldn't search for those that would kill us unless we know who they are....... That makes no sense whatsoever.... But then sense and bleeding hearts don't really go together, do they?

These poor guys were probably "profiled":

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They were apprehended when they allegedly agreed to launder the money so the presumed terrorist could buy a shoulder-fired missile, sources said.

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CNN

No doubt, if we weren't at war they would have gone on un-noticed without a thought. Things have taken a sharp twist since extreme critisicm and the commission force change.

Reuters

bleeding hearts, a sense of fairness and equallity for everyone.and so on are exellant sentiments in times of peace. the world should strive toward a brotherhood of man (or maybe not). but we have to win the war first and not just in iraq. these sentiments have no place in it. dont offend anyone while your looking for the enemy! what bullshit. we should consider ourselfs luck that we can pretty much consentrate or search on such a small group (small relative to everyone)

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we should consider ourselfs luck that we can pretty much consentrate or search on such a small group

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No, consider yourself lucky that the group does not share the same base characteristics of the majority in this country, (white), because then you would be profiling yourselves. This is a point made quite well by Foxley earlier and as someone who spent over a year in Northern Ireland I can assure you our job would have been a lot easier if all the terrorists were green.

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and as someone who spent over a year in Northern Ireland I can assure you our job would have been a lot easier if all the terrorists were green.

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Dam right.
I spent some time there myself.

So remember not every person dressed in a long robe, sandles and a clothe around their head is out to kill you. Just as every irish accented person in Northern Ireland was not out to kill us.

Nil carberundum li iligitimi.