http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...472167,00.html
looks like the u.s. will be "liberating" a country or two soon.
dumbass chechnyans
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...472167,00.html
looks like the u.s. will be "liberating" a country or two soon.
dumbass chechnyans
yes I just heard that on CNN! Mother****ers! Its one thing when you kill grown ups-even then its questionable-, but little kids! Why? If you kill kids, you definately won't get help/support from anybody. Now the chechnyans definately won't get their liberity or wantever they wanted in the first place. .....
i heard about this yesterday morning... over 24hrs ago... when they thought there were 350 people inside... when i got home to the news it was up to 1500! it was just a hostage situation before and now theirs grenades and what nots going off. even part of the buildings colapsed....
sometimes i wonder just what this world is comming to.....
Those cowards are such idiots it amazes me. They really screwed the pooch on this one. There will be no support or sympathy for the Chechens. The Russians have never really given a **** about unpopular moves and now anything Big Red wants to do in retaliation will most likely be condoned. We can expect to see a multitude of Chechens paying the price for the stupidity of a few.
You mean that the U.S. will go into another foreign country and kill more innocentQuote:
looks like the u.s. will be "liberating" a country or two soon.
children in the name of "liberty"
This is an outrage and a massive tragedy, but is only a small fraction of the murder
of innocent children,woman and men, America has commited with its so-called and
unbelievably condoned "liberation" of numerous countries.
How many Iraqi, Afgan, Somali, Vietnamese children have been killed by U.S. forces?
No i am not saying it's the same thing, but it sure is on par with it.
:shootem:
The USA has not been involved in Chechnya in any way. In fact, still affectedQuote:
You mean that the U.S. will go into another foreign country and kill more innocent
children in the name of "liberty"
by Cold War thinking, we have criticized and found fault with Russia the
whole time this has been going on. The last time a portion of the USA tried to
secede (1860-1865), the government ruthlessly crushed them with much
loss of life, both military and civilian. Any foriegn nations that offered
criticism were politely told to STFU.
Russia has had a knife at her throat ever since the fall of communism.
Every shitball Islamic province has declared jihad. Chechnya has no more right to
be a soverign nation than does South Carolina or Alabama.
When John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln, he was hunted down like a dog
and done away with. Do these Islamic monsters deserve any better?
The only thing the USA needs to do is stay out of it. Apparently, it takes a
lot of provocation to fully arouse the Russian Bear, but, in the end, Russia
will defend herself. The Chechens richly deserve whatever they have
coming.
:cool:
It's a pitty this is not the policy of your leaders present and past.Quote:
The only thing the USA needs to do is stay out of it.
No-one said that the U.S. was involved in any way.
The actions of these muslims, are what will become the norm
world wide, and no power is strong enough to stop it.
All that is needed is a handful of nappie heads willing to martyrise
themselves, arm themselves, and keep the wheel of this religeous
suicide movement moving toward total chaos.
I don't think so. When we try to be reasonable and negotiate,Quote:
The actions of these muslims, are what will become the norm
world wide, and no power is strong enough to stop it.
they become bold and aggressive. When we show principled
strength, they suddenly become nice and reasonable.
They are cowards and weasels. We have kept them at bay for 400
years because they knew we would defend ourselves. Now, for some
reason, they think we have grown soft, and like cockroaches,
are crawling out to see if they can get away with something.
Slobodan Milosevic will be remembered as a prophet and defender
of western civilization. The Muslims are planning on invading
not only Russia, but Europe as well. Prepare for a long bloody struggle
for survival. Unfortunately, lots of people in the line of fire
still have their heads up their asses.
The USA, for example is still using a strategic paradigm from the
1940s, and steadfastly refuses to consider Russia as our ally
in this matter. Europe, now enjoying real economic prosperity
for the first time since 1914, dreads the prospect of another
world war fought on their soil, and is determined to buy
the muslims' good will by sacrificing Israel.
It's time to decide which side you are on. There's no room in
the middle between good and evil.
:cool:
Trust me.....
Russia is perfectly capable of doing anything they wish without the assistance of the good ole US of A....
Don't worry kids, there won't be a draft for Chechnya.... ;)
lol American bashing on a Russian issue when they have more weapons stockpiled and actually killed millions while expanding their empire in THIS century. lol. We are quilty of trying to stop them.
\\EDIT This time we should leave them alone if they choose to start their own aggression in the East.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
How many Iraqi, Afgan, Somali, Vietnamese children have been killed by U.S. forces?
quote:
The only thing the USA needs to do is stay out of it.
It's a pitty this is not the policy of your leaders present and past.
The actions of these muslims, are what will become the norm
world wide, and no power is strong enough to stop it.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
we (collectivly) stopped the nazis, we stopped the communists and we'll stop the islamic fundamentalists, it would just be allot easier if everyone would wake up and see this threat for what it is before its way out of hand.
with five terrorist attacks in russia in the past two weeks and given the fact that over one third of the attackers in the school were arabs kinda of sets putins hands free. he really couldn't act before because he declared the conflict in Chechnia over, now he can start a war against terror. it would be nice if he'd show a little more support for ours.
BTW: cybrid began a discussion on this here:
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=261573
even though its all tied together it really does neen it's own thread now.
Oh...not a war criminal who killed thousands of innocents? Just like Hitler wanted to get rid of the Jews, Milosevic tried to get rid of the muslims, and Ethnic Albanians in Kosovo....ever heard of ethnic cleansing? I'm sure you have.Quote:
Slobodan Milosevic will be remembered as a prophet and defender
of western civilization
That statement is not only wrong, but very offensive to those who have suffered and have lost loved ones under Milosevic. I'm personally offended by that.
SO according to you Christianism is good, and Islam is evil? Lets start the Crusades again....Quote:
It's time to decide which side you are on. There's no room in
the middle between good and evil.
Its exactly what the terrorists want, to get all the muslims on their side. They do it but trying to get the Christians againts the muslim, forcing the muslims to defend themselves.
As far as you're concerned, the terrorists have already won. Smart thinking buddy...good job.
Tedob, I kinda hijacked the other thread. Its better if we continue this here.
This is exactly whats wrong with America today. People who would much rather react to an attack rather than prevent the attack in the first place. This is why tragedies like 9/11 will countinue to happen in the US, and one day the rubbles of the buildings will not be covered by dust, but a mushroom cloud. :hippy: YAY FOR LIBERALS :hippy:Quote:
You mean that the U.S. will go into another foreign country and kill more innocent
children in the name of "liberty"
This is an outrage and a massive tragedy, but is only a small fraction of the murder
of innocent children,woman and men, America has commited with its so-called and
unbelievably condoned "liberation" of numerous countries.
Maybe we should just let the UN take care of it for us:umph:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htmQuote:
In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.
That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.
Who has taught you to hate your own civilization and culture?
Islam is evil. It is the mainspring of terrorism and if there
is to be any progress against terrorism, we must attack its
philosophical basis, the Islamic religion. Anyone who believes
differently is either a fool, or a traitor.
:cool:
Oh God i'm really not in the mood to start digging out how Christianity is "Evil".Quote:
Who has taught you to hate your own civilization and culture?
Islam is evil. It is the mainspring of terrorism and if there
is to be any progress against terrorism, we must attack its
philosophical basis, the Islamic religion. Anyone who believes
differently is either a fool, or a traitor.
1. Islam is a peace loving religion.
2. The terrorist are not following the teachings of Islam, they are following a radical version of it.
3. Killing off half of the world will not make you look any better than the Terrorists!
4. You see the similiarities here? For them, we're the ones trying to conquer them. To us, they're trying to conquer us....how about we start using some common sense here rcgreen.
5. I do not hate my own civilisation and culture, I do not hate ANY civilisation and culture. I respect every single one the same, and I dare to understand, respect, and appreciate each culture for what it is and its diversity.
6. Its not the mainspring of terrorism....again, those who say they're killing in the name of Allah, and Islam, they are not following the directions of the Quran. I have read the Quran, and it doesn't say kill everyone who is not muslim, instead it says defend your religion with your own life, and kill those who try to take your religion away from you. Its not too different from the Bible when it comes to the Idiologies(SP?)....it even spends a whole chapter talking about Mother Mary and her son Jesus.
7. I believe differently, I'm not a fool nor a traitor...I'm using common sense...try it...its refreshing.
Both religions have done enough to each other in the name of God. One would hope that today's societies (the supposebly more intelligent/ evolved ones), would be able to take care of differences in a more peaceful manner. Enough blood has been shed over the centuries...
Most muslims do not condone the practices of these terrorists, and they are peaceful. One cannot judge them without getting to know them personally, and do some research on their culture. Killing them off does not make us any better than them...instead it makes us look like bloodthirsty animals.
The Taliban and the rest of the Radical extremists do not represent the opinion/beliefs of the majority of Muslims. Afghanistan and Iraq are not the only muslim countries there ;).
Sooooooo....who is right? How about we chill and try to find a balance where both can agree?Quote:
The Crusades were a series of military campaigns during the time of Medieval England against the Muslims of the Middle East. In 1076, the Muslims had captured Jerusalem - the most holy of holy places for Christians. Jesus had been born in nearby Bethlehem and Jesus had spent most of his life in Jerusalem. He was crucified on Calvary Hill, also in Jerusalem. There was no more important place on Earth than Jerusalem for a true Christian which is why Christians called Jerusalem the "City of God".
However, Jerusalem was also extremely important for the Muslims as Muhammad, the founder of the Muslim faith, had died there and there was great joy in the Muslim world when Jerusalem was captured. A beautiful dome - called the Dome of the Rock - was built on the rock where Muhammad was said to have died and it was so holy that no Muslim was allowed to tread on the rock or touch it when visiting the Dome.
He was treated by a Doctor Mudd, in his escape; which is where the saying:Quote:
When John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln, he was hunted down like a dog
and done away with
"Your names going to be Mud round here" comes from.
Islam is a religion: albeit one that holds life cheap. [I know, I know; I've left myself open to all sorts of responses with THAT one. But you have seen the way they treated their OWN kind in Afghanistan / Iraq / Iran / Anywhere with a surplus of sand and sun.]Quote:
Islam is evil
The terrorists are not following the Islamic faith, they have bastardized it to their own despicable ends.
The Koran does not advocate suicide, nor does it advocate killing to spread the word.
however: during the Iraq / Iran war, the Iranians issued children with plastic keys, and told them that it would unlock the gates of Paradise .......................
Then they sent them off to clear Iraqi minefields by running through them ....................
The 'average' Islamic follower is poorly educated, and is not enouraged to question his Imam. They learn the Koran in its entireity, but it is learnt 'parrot fashion' it doesn't matter that the follower cannot read into it the 'meaning'. That is the Imams job. They are therefore susceptible to 'brainwashing' by the clergy saying things like "The good book says 'thou shalt not kill' ..... Oh, hang on; yes it does: Here ............
Reading the above, it is easy to superimpose the Catholic faith into the scenario, as they definately did NOT encourage followers to even READ the Bible, and even hold their masses in Latin, so as to further remove the words from the 'average' follower.
Whatever the reasons behing the Crusades of old, they left a strong rallying point in the religion, and that is why when G Dubya said the 'C' word, he was quickly corrected.
I, however, do have a strong suspicion that the 'C' word will be used to rally the worlds Muslims to the 'cause'.
If that should turn out to be the case, then I fear that only the TOTAL oblivion of their entire culture. OR OURS. Would be suffice to 'win' this war.
For all of you who are now muttering that "they are only 'ragheads', what do they know about fighting" ....... Imagine yourself in their shoes, with the rest of the world against you, and an implacable enemy IN YOUR LAND.............. Would YOU lie down quietly ????????
Which century? ;)Quote:
and actually killed millions while expanding their empire in THIS century.
Yes this is what the U.S. Government should do in relation to theirQuote:
It's time to decide which side you are on.
under the table handshakes and dirty corrupted deals with the real
terrorist countries and corrupted poloticions they are friends with in
the Middle East.
When such time Bush, Cheney, and the other frauds, stop lining their
pockets with the blood stained and putrid oil dollars, and stop sacrificing
their own countries security and credibility for barrels of the Saudi black
stuff, things might change.
But as long as the Saudi's are seen as the corner store for the crude, and
as business partners, nothing will change.
How many of the 9/11 terrorists came from Iraq? How many came from Saudi?
Seems you invaded and as you call it, with another 40 dead today, "liberated"
the wrong country.
When the American people wake up and smell the roses you mean.Quote:
it would just be allot easier if everyone would wake up and see this threat for what it is before its way out of hand.
Too late, it's already way out of control and complicated daily by your own governments
foreign and selfish policy.
Get out of Iraq, cos you aint never gonna fix what you have broken, and invade the real
harbourer's of terror, your business partners in Saudia Arabia.....
didn't take you too long to make up your mind which side your on. spouting the party line of our enemy. this half baked anti-american retoric that everyone knows is bull **** except the endoctrinated. what happened to imperilaists going in to take iraq's oil? that didn't hold much water so now you'll try something else.
let me see...turn on the saudies so the bin dover boys can set up camp there. now thats what i'd really like to have happen (not).
i smell their roses and the bull **** their growing them in
update:
no longer an up-rising...
12:25 p.m. September 4, 2004
BESLAN, Russia – A shaken President Vladimir Putin made a rare and candid admission of Russian weakness Saturday in the face of an "all-out war" by terrorists after more than 340 people – nearly half of them children – were killed in a hostage-taking at a southern school.
Putin went on national television to tell Russians that they must mobilize against terrorism and promised wide-ranging reforms to toughen security forces and purge corruption
"We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten,"
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/w...olseizure.html
Hallelujah ......... A leader who has finally woken up and smelled the roses / coffee or whatever else you smell ..........Quote:
"We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten,"
"Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition".
I fear that this is not the beginning of the end, nor even the end of the beginning.
But it is start of the time that the blinkers came off, when people around the world accepted that what is happening is WAR in all but name.
And may your God go with you all.
I think the Terrorists are gonna get ****ed up really bad!....I also think they didn't think the world was going to react to their terrorist acts....so now they're screwed.
We show a little support for him, maybe he'll return the favor. That's the best way to do it IMO... You get what you give...Quote:
with five terrorist attacks in russia in the past two weeks and given the fact that over one third of the attackers in the school were arabs kinda of sets putins hands free. he really couldn't act before because he declared the conflict in Chechnia over, now he can start a war against terror. it would be nice if he'd show a little more support for ours.
when the incident first occured bush offered any support that was needed. but of course if he accepted any outside support it would really be showing weakness to the russian people.
most of the nations around the world including the nations in the EU are behind putin 100% even the french. of course the EU itself doesn't think it was handled properly.
Kinda harsh words there?! according to a few reuters and sapa-ap reports, less than 3% of the chechen population want independance. more than 96% just want to live a peaceful life. so now, with your logic, whom gets hunted and killed here? are all chechens to be painted with the same brush?! if 10 poeple are congregating in an area and one pulls out a gun, the other 9 happen to share his custom and traditions but not his aims. how many of them will be deemed as ok to injure and kill as part of collatorel damage to get the 1 person who has the gun?!Quote:
Originally posted here by rcgreen
The USA has not been involved in Chechnya in any way. In fact, still affected
by Cold War thinking, we have criticized and found fault with Russia the
whole time this has been going on. The last time a portion of the USA tried to
secede (1860-1865), the government ruthlessly crushed them with much
loss of life, both military and civilian. Any foriegn nations that offered
criticism were politely told to STFU.
Russia has had a knife at her throat ever since the fall of communism.
Every shitball Islamic province has declared jihad. Chechnya has no more right to
be a soverign nation than does South Carolina or Alabama.
When John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln, he was hunted down like a dog
and done away with. Do these Islamic monsters deserve any better?
The only thing the USA needs to do is stay out of it. Apparently, it takes a
lot of provocation to fully arouse the Russian Bear, but, in the end, Russia
will defend herself. The Chechens richly deserve whatever they have
coming.
:cool:
After 10 yrs of war, the result is that this situation is very complicated. russian goverment has even admitted that it lied and withheld info from the public abouth this incident. what i would like to know is, why were they not as effective at protecting their peoples by throwing down a complete cordone. some of the terrorists escaped. they used their special forces, but why not the spietnats?!
Liberties are important, no matter who you are, or what your beliefs are. if you shut me up, why should i respect you?! and for that matter you me... i believe that with further polarisation, middle ground will be lost....that would be the real shame, you killed 312 of my peoples, here hold this nuclear bomb ............... you know, perhaps something can come from this, something like peace, what the caterpillar calls the end of the world, we call a butterfly ............
I remeber watching a Gene Hackman/Will Smith movie in which Gene Hackman's character says these words "use what you have to your advantage. they are heavy and slow, you are light and fast ......." I would venture that it would be difficult. these are not random acts ala suicide bombings, these are well thought out and planned endeavours. the school the pulling up of floor boards that revealed hidden weapons etc ...... they may catch 1 or 2. the garbage that these fanatics eat up as truth, and what makes the fanatic such, should be combatted. these people clearly are devoid of our accepted rules of engagement, hence the word terror. i mean, hello, saddam's boys drop their fatigues for civies and attack the troops while in civies. now if troopers shoot and kill by standers, then wow, world look at US, the killer, more fodder for fanatics to be told about etc ....... look at the garbage that they fed that richard reid guy, the shoe bomber wannabe. Or the Lund (The american taliban?) Guy. the west is losing the propoganda war. they feel what they do is justified. "the end justifies the means" to the extreme .......Quote:
Originally posted here by Cybr1d
I think the Terrorists are gonna get ****ed up really bad!....I also think they didn't think the world was going to react to their terrorist acts....so now they're screwed.
they are not worried about the worlds reaction, they are showing their desperation at what they wish to achieve. if russian populous says no more, let them be independant, the fanatics win. they are waging a psychological war, just as much as they a guerrilla war. if people dont feel safe, due to a certain situation, they will want that issue resolved to bring back a semblance of normality. war is ugly, it is violent and brutal....... i watched people die here, friends, family. we have a democracy for only 10 yrs in south africa.....
Whoever built this site appears to have done some extensive searching on verses from the Koran that condone the killing of all except Muslims. This is an eye opener guys.
My take: There may be Moderate Muslims that follow Islam, but the Islamic religion itself is anything but Moderate.
http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html
Lol Tiger I back paddle now... this century meaning the last 100 years. Not necessarily the 20th versus 21st century. ;) But my point was a country bigger and more armed than U.S., can take their own issue to heart. Premiere Putin WAS the former Administer of KGB he’s not just a shadow politician. His problem is he let public opinion sway his actions in the form of "sensitivity". He is correct at stating the weak get killed. We learned that a few years ago and to this day people don’t get it. Even with 14 or so major conflicts in the world right now all related to the same MO.Quote:
Which century?
I have only seen the few pictures of the school that have filtered to the net in various societies. I can only imagine what he feels seeing an "unedited" version. What little I saw forced me to go for a walk in order to clear my mind. And this was not the ONLY attack on the people of Russia. I fear the KGB has a new motive to realign it's assets to protect what is left of Russia. Much like the CIA? Hmmm, this could be an argument in the remnants of the old Pollet Bureau as to why controlled communism and reduction of freedom is better. Ironic?
The west likes to prop up every little separatist group that claims “dependence” as the answer to a mass evil they envision. Switching gears to blankly move opinion on their course, with no thought of previous historical reference or future outcomes. Why? Because next week they'll be on to something else. Perhaps holding a sign in New York that reads "Where is Hinckley when you need him?" Intelligence fails those people.
If it were not for nukes the soviets would have destroyed us. They don't need help from a little brother in terms of might. Where the US will fit in is obvious. We will offer a precious commodity; data.
Overdue I will go over the Quran during the next couple of days and find those quotes. I also want to see what else it says around it. The Quran just like the Bible, is not to be taken literally, which I'm afraid that is what these fanatics are doing.Quote:
Whoever built this site appears to have done some extensive searching on verses from the Koran that condone the killing of all except Muslims. This is an eye opener guys.
My take: There may be Moderate Muslims that follow Islam, but the Islamic religion itself is anything but Moderate.
http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html
__________________
Thanks Cybr1d.
I don't own a copy of the Quran. ;) And you may very well be correct, since my opinions on the Quran are built more on heresay and pointedly pulled quotes. I look forward to seeing what you dig up.
these fanatics are ready for a world wide holy war. the reason they preformed such a heinous act was not because they didn't expect this reaction but because they wanted it. they want russia and the christian world to react with such outrage as to incite the non-extreamist muslims into joining with them. what are the alternatives...not take any action and let them have their way with the world. im sure everyone will procede with caution but become the target of more heinous acts in the process. looks like it might really be party time.
while the 97% want peace they dont necessarly want to go out of their way to stop the 3% and wouldn't be that very upset if the 3% got what they wanted. a great many in fact would be rather pleased although they really dont want the chaos. those in charge know the consequences of what this course of action the extreamist want to take will bring but i doubt they'll get the co-operation necessary to keep it under control although i hope they do.
what are the alternatives too playing global thermo-nuclear war and i dont mean this as a retorical question.
to add a little perspective:
http://archive.tconline.org/stories/jan02/map.html
Tedob1, i wholeheartedly agree with your opening statement. do you believe therefor, that any compromise/peaceful solution is possible on any level, or, do you believe that thinsg are going to get worse and worse, or perhaps just worse, before they get better?!
None: Once the powers that be begin to go down that road, then it is the end.Quote:
what are the alternatives too playing global thermo-nuclear war and i dont mean this as a retorical question.
Although with modern MIRV technology, and smaller warheads {greater accuracy = smaller punch required] the attendant aftermath is somewhat reduced, compared to the MAD philosophy of the 60's.
The [IMO] only alternative is to set loose the special forces, and give them unlimited power of decision and implementation.
Downside: They are only human [unlike the enemy] and they are relatively few in number.
Although I do not see the need for the nuclear response just yet. I do foresee a time, not too distant, whereby the options for control have been exercised and found wanting.
THEN the nuclear option will be considered REAL close.
As for the rest of Tedob's post:
I agree that whilst there is only a very small minority doing the deeds, the remainder are actively endorsing them by not denouncing them from the rooftops.
A few years ago in the UK, a politician [Tory, I think] suggested that the way to test someones 'loyalty' to this [UK] country, was to see who they supported in a cricket match !!!!!!!
The thinking being that, although people consider and say that they are British, come the sporting crunch, and they all cheer on their 'own' side.
The transposition to the Muslim would be that they consider themselves to be Muslim first, second and final. Their nationality is of no consequence to them.
Quote:
while the 97% want peace they dont necessarly want to go out of their way to stop the 3% and wouldn't be that very upset if the 3% got what they wanted.
From the first quote: 3% guilty. To the second quote: I think that you can work out the collateral damage requirements .............Quote:
if 10 poeple are congragating in an area and one pulls out a gun, the other 9 happen to share his custom and traditions but not his aims. how many of them will be deemed as ok to injure and kill as part of collatorel damage to get the 1 person who has the gun?!
From Heinrich Himmler: Not the best source for a quote, but an example to show that it isn't unthinkable to DO the unthinkable.Quote:
Better to kill a dozen innocent men. Than to allow one guilty man to go free
And you can bet your bottom dollar, that somewhere in the bowels of the military, someone is considering AND proposing any and all options to our political leadership.
Nothing will be discounted out of hand. Because something HAS to be done.
Although I would take bets that the words 'Crusade' and 'Final Solution' will NOT make it to the front cover of 'The Plan'.
[QUOTE] http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html/QUOTE]
Ive just finished reading that site. Its the major, greatest piece of **** ive ever read!
I can do the same thing (change to good or bad thing) every piece of written language that you give me. Bible, Jewish text, US constitution, everything.
Extracting piece of a milenar text, transfer to present day without any argumentation is typical of brain-less people.
On the part "Musslin'God doesnt have a son, so its not the same God as Ours."
So jewish dont believe either. and the point is?
Cristian, Jewish and Musslin have that same base, but none are the SAME religion.
When i was reading that web site, i sudlenly felt that i was transported back in time to the 12th-14th century.
Musslin "wash brains"? and that text? clarify anything?
or is the same kind of "bad" text?
I cant defend any terrorism action because i believe that in any war two sides fight and the remainind (in the middle) are killed. One side wins, one side loose, but a lot of people were killed for nothing.
and that thing about "collateral damage" that someone wrote here. Man, if we can think like that, people that were killed o 9/11 were "colateral damage". The real purpose of that act was "weak the USA, destroying capitalism totems. Those women and men killed there was just a "side effect".
Feel uncomfortable with that thought? So then DONT ADVOCATE to bomb other people. Most of that guys will be innocent as those pool souls on New York.
Anyone that take it seriously should be burned on Hell...
BTW, you cant fight agains Terrorism bombing everywhere. You can win on a guerrila using traditional war strategies. Its a war of information, not nukes...
Rembember that Israel is on a war of information for more than 30 years. They still cant win when they use traditional strategies. Its the nature of "next generation" of war.
New war, new strategies.
[QUOTE] Originally posted here by cacosapo
cacosapo - You are right that the site is warped, but the intent of referencing the site was to note the quotes from the Quran, that advocate murder of non-muslims. I do not advocate the rest of the site. Hopefully, Cybr1d is going to give us some context surrounding the quotes. As for picking apart Christianity. Where in the "new testament" does Jesus tell us to go out and kill everyone not of our Faith? Come on now, support your claim or don't make it.Quote:
http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html/QUOTE]
Ive just finished reading that site. Its the major, greatest piece of **** ive ever read!
I can do the same thing (change to good or bad thing) every piece of written language that you give me. Bible, Jewish text, US constitution, everything.
Extracting piece of a milenar text, transfer to present day without any argumentation is typical of brain-less people.
[QUOTE Where in the "new testament" does Jesus tell us to go out and kill everyone not of our Faith? Come on now, support your claim or don't make it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Unfortunatelly, Bible is composed by all "books", not only the "new ones". Please read the entire Bible and see by yourself what kind of "kill everybody else" things are there. And that book (old testaments) is the base for Jewish, Cristian AND Musslin, although isnt part of Quran.
Did you read the entire Quran? Did you put the text on the correct context? (when the Profet is alive.) it is easy to get pieces of it and make all believers bad people.
So i will get crusades as an example and start to believe that all Europe NOW is to be burn to the ashes.
Its a "historical" book. Not all text in it is a model for this generation. And most of the musslin now that.
It is that kind of site (specifically that text) that make harder all religions staying on a peacefull condition. When you mencioned that text as "an example" how bad is their religion, you just bring rage and fury over everybody.
About Jesus, He is allways said to "spread love". Doing this kind of "reference" to other religion doesnt contribute to spread Jesus' Words.
It's interesting. The world somewhat reacts like this is something new. Like all of a sudden out of no where we (of the west) caused an uprising. Ignoring the past 30 years, post WW2, and on for almost 1 thousand years to the crusades and beyond to the start of Islam and the very words of Mohamed. His movements and his actions. I have posted a little history of him from time to time. From the very beginning their was conflict and it started with the Jews and grew to Christianity as it gained momentum in the centuries that passed the death of Christ.
I have read the whole Bible. And yes there were acts of vengence intitated by God. And that was under the old covenant. Everyone knows that the Bible is broken into two testaments. (The Old Testament, The New Testament) And Everyone knows that The New Testament is based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ, which were based upon peace and forgiveness. (I have used the term everyone loosely here on purpose. Yes there are people that have not heard of Jesus Christ, but lets avoid mashing semantics here.)Quote:
Originally posted here by cacosapo
Unfortunatelly, Bible is composed by all "books", not only the "new ones". Please read the entire Bible and see by yourself what kind of "kill everybody else" things are there. And that book (old testaments) is the base for Jewish, Cristian AND Musslin, although isnt part of Quran.
No. I have not read the Quran in it's entirety. That is why I said that hopefully Cybr1d will give us some context.Quote:
Did you read the entire Quran? Did you put the text on the correct context? (when the Profet is alive.) it is easy to get pieces of it and make all believers bad people.
If that's what will make you happy, I'm sure that we can arrange something. ;)Quote:
So i will get crusades as an example and start to believe that all Europe NOW is to be burn to the ashes.
The Bible is not just a "historical book". It is the Word of God.Quote:
Its a "historical" book. Not all text in it is a model for this generation. And most of the musslin now that.
O.k. I'll buy that. You can even make a case that Christians, in general, during times of War/Conflict prefer to fall back upon The Old Testament, and you will not get an argument out of me on that one.Quote:
It is that kind of site (specifically that text) that make harder all religions staying on a peacefull condition. When you mencioned that text as "an example" how bad is their religion, you just bring rage and fury over everybody.
Once again - I did not condone the website. And the quotes from the Quran are "Examples" under any definition. Perhaps someone later will post context clearing this up.
Oh yes it does! How can I explain the difference between one religion and Christianity without referencing to some points of difference between the two? Can you?Quote:
About Jesus, He is allways said to "spread love". Doing this kind of "reference" to other religion doesnt contribute to spread Jesus' Words. [/B]
Some were acts of God, like the "Flood" (sry, i cant imagine what is the english word for that), but some were just act from men.Quote:
And yes there were acts of vengence intitated by God.
Im catholic and Cristan and i dont believe in revenge from God. God, like Jesus said, is just Love.
When i refered to it as "historical" i mean that its text should be taken in the a historical context. So, beside its the Word of God, men transcript it. And ou know mankind; they use to "change" thinks to adapt to current context.Quote:
The Bible is not just a "historical book". It is the Word of God.
BTW, do you know that Quran is the "Word of God" too? Muslims believe in that.
backing to a historical context, cristian has more history of "hate" against othe religions that usslim. In fact, just in this 20th century cristians has started to accept that other people can have other religion.
The musslins, on other hand, has an history of cooperation. take the Spain invasion on 800- for example. everybody there could pratice their religion freely.
As i can see, they (the musslins) think that we are trying to "convert" them and they use to fight against that. Wont you fight against in the same situation?
(disclaimer: not defending terrorists with those statements)
The Quran is not the "Word of God." There is only one God, and there is only one Christ, and there is only one "Word of God", with that being the Bible. Neither God nor Christ has ever instructed Christians to give credence to or worship other Gods. As matter of fact this is forbidden by God.Quote:
BTW, do you know that Quran is the "Word of God" too? Muslims believe in that.
True but that is "History" and not the current teachings of Jesus Christ. Additionally, Christians understand that people believe in different religions, but we do not accept these religions as fact, because only by the acceptance of Jesus Christ into your heart can one achieve eternity.Quote:
backing to a historical context, cristian has more history of "hate" against othe religions that usslim. In fact, just in this 20th century cristians has started to accept that other people can have other religion.
Yeah. And that is why the World Trade Center Towers became a burning mass of rubble.Quote:
The musslins, on other hand, has an history of cooperation. take the Spain invasion on 800- for example. everybody there could pratice their religion freely.
As i can see, they (the musslins) think that we are trying to "convert" them and they use to fight against that. Wont you fight against in the same situation?
As for fighting - I would fight for my right to be free, but try as they might, I cannot be converted, for I know Christ as my saviour. What is wrong with wanting to convert Islamics over to Christianity anyways?
And you still haven't answered my question. Where does Jesus Christ say Kill everyone that is not a Christian? Which faith would you rather follow?
Sorry, but i cant understand why you insist to separate the Word of God. If New Testament is the Word of Jesus, The Old Testament is the Word of God. Since Jesus is the Son of God, His words is Words of God too. So, you cant split both books just to make your argument easier. Its possible the get the "chapters" from Quran and do the same.
Just being Cristiam, i was raised believing on diversity. My religion' education was directed to RESPECT others' religion.
The same argument you have against musslim it can be applied to other, such as Jewish. Using that kind of argumentation, instead trying to "spread convivence" is my first point.
If you can live here in Earth with diversity, please move on. Everybody has the right to religion, you CANT impose that yours is the correct one and the others is "evil".
In each word of Jesus, He just spread "love". I just cant match Jesus ideas, even changed somehow but the writters, with those that your writting.
Please go to the bible and read Matheus 5.43-48. There you can see what Jesus wants for his people. and for "his" people im NOT thinking about "cristiams" but th Mankind.
p.s. sry, i couldnt find a good translation from that Matheus passage. Its kinda tricky try to translate Bible.