Nmap and FBI Subpoenas

I just got the following email from Fyodor's mailing list:

Quote:

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Dear Nmap hackers,

Let me first wish you Americans a happy Thanksgiving. Meanwhile, I'm
hard at work on a holiday Nmap version which should be available by
Christmas.

But enough pleasantries -- I want to discuss a sobering topic. With
increasing regularity this year, FBI agents from all over the country
have contacted me demanding webserver log data from Insecure.Org.
They don't give me reasons, but they generally seem to be
investigating a specific attacker who they think may have visited the
Nmap page at a certain time. If they see that an attacker ran the
command "wget http://download.insecure.org/nmap/dist/nmap-3.77.tgz"
from a compromised host, they assume that she might have obtained that
URL by visiting the Nmap download page from her home computer. So
far, I have never given them anything. In some cases, they asked too
late and data had already been purged through our data retention
policy. In other cases, they failed to serve the subpoena properly.
Sometimes they try asking without a subpoena and give up when I demand
one.

One can argue whether helping the FBI is good or bad. Remember that
they might be going after spammers, cyber-extortionists, DDOS kiddies,
etc. In this, I wish them the best. Nmap was designed to help
security -- the criminals and spammers put my work to shame! But the
desirability of helping the FBI is immaterial -- I may be forced by
law to comply with legal, properly served subpoenas. At the same
time, I'll try to fight anything too broad (like if they ask for
weblogs for a whole month). Protecting your privacy is important to
me, but Nmap users should be savvy enough to know that all of your
network activity leave traces. I'm not the only one who gets these
subpoenas -- large ISPs and webmail providers receive them daily.
Most other major security sites probably do too. Most of you probably
don't care if someone finds out that you downloaded Nmap, Nessus,
Hping2, John the Ripper, etc. Nothing on Insecure.Org is illegal.
But for those of you who do care, there are plenty of mechanisms
available to preserve your anonymity. Remember this security mantra:
defense in depth.

Cheers,
Fyodor

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For help using this (nmap-hackers) mailing list, send a blank email to
[email protected] . List archive: http://seclists.org

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Wonder what they hope to find? So many folks hit that URL in a day I can't see how they would get useful information that they don't already have.

Hey Hey,

I just read that email not too long ago and I find some humour in it.. It's not going to help them out... oh no.. someone download 3.77... Maybe the FBI should subpeona JupM also because I posted the link that Fyodor mentions on here... people could have obtained it from this site and accessed it.... It's ridiculous... It's another example of the American government wanting total control over everything... If I was Fyodor, I'd modify my privacy policy so that it says logs are wiped every hour.... and that's how often I'd wipe them..

Anyways, it was an interesting read... and I just wanted to add my 0.02.

Peace,
HT

I use wget a lot.. when working on remote computers..

does using wget make me a terrorist ?

And you can never proove that the person surfing the insecure.org site at the time the wget is issued is the actual "hacker" !!

Perhaps they should go and see who visits http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html

:D lmfao :D

Perhaps they are following procedures and following up on all leads? If they miss one link, even if it is a legit site it could be something the defense could use to protect some spammer or script kiddie from becoming "Bubba's" next buddy.

That's true. It's very trendy to join the "down on the man!" crowd every time the FBI sticks its nose in anything, but truth be told, they're just doing their job.

The complainers are usually the same people who hate cops until the first time they get robbed. :)

Quote:

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Originally posted here by the_JinX
I use wget a lot.. when working on remote computers..

does using wget make me a terrorist ?

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Crap I just DLed the entire Garfield.com archive using a Java program and wget... I'm going to have to burn my harddrive in sulfuric acid and try to place it in the way of a construction vehicle or something...

Wait what about gcc? We compile exploits with it... maybe it should be made illegal?

I know... let Bill give us all the tools we need and let there be nothing for download in this world... only commercial software and the OS.

Well sounds like I'm good to go for awhile. At least until a newer version comes out. Have almost every tool on a CD by now. :D

But regardless, they can come a knockin' anytime they want. Won't find anything on my boxes that would interest them. well maybe........ ;)

cheers

It sounds like too many of you focus on the trees while ignoring the forest as a whole.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
That's true. It's very trendy to join the "down on the man!" crowd every time the FBI sticks its nose in anything, but truth be told, they're just doing their job.

The complainers are usually the same people who hate cops until the first time they get robbed. :)

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Hey Hey,

For the most part it's not that we hate cops til we're robbed... it's that we hate cops period... At least that's my opinion... They're one of the lowest forms of scum on the planet. Police Officers, State Troopers, FBI or OPP and RCMP if you prefer... They're lousy people for the most part.... Like firefighters... Have you met a younger firefighter? In his 20s... some hot shot preppie guy who's all high and mighty... and untouchable because he's a brave firefighter.. These people think they are Gods because they have a job that puts their lives at risk.. big deal... I honestly don't care if they're killed or not.. I could be electrocuted opening a computer, but I don't make a big deal about it like I'm some brave person.. Who cares about these cops? They're the same cops that will haul me to jail if I hit a guy who breaks into my home, but then they'll drive him to the hospital for stitches.. it's a bunch of bullshit... This is the same thing... Law Enforcement basically says F@#$ peoples rights.... Let's impede the rights of millions of innocent people so that we can possibly catch a single criminal... It's like all this bullshit going on in the US right now.. .my gf's friend spoke out again Bush on a website, one of his friends called some hotline and reported him because he said Bush should die.. suddenly he's no longer allowed to fly in the states... Impeding the rights of an innocent person on the off chance that he's guilty... What ever happened to Innocent until proven guilty.. I say **** the Cops... **** the Goverment and **** Bush up the ass with a 4x4. I don't care if you're the President, the Prime Minister, the Pope or the person who gave me life... You have no right to impede my rights when I'm innocent... If I'm a criminal take away my rights, declare that I'm not even a human being anymore... but until it's proven don't you dare take away what is rightfully mine... Those of you saying it's their job.... and who cares if they're doing it... You people are the problem... you chose to lay down and give up your rights rather than fight for them... I'd drop my hdd in a vat of acid just to spite them.

Peace,
HT

ya, what he said. i put my life on the line ever beer i open.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
don't you dare take away what is rightfully mine...

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This here would spark a nice philosophical debate if I had time, maybe somebody else can pick on it?

But esentially, the people wanted freedom and the governments decided to allow them to have freedom. They could change their minds. And we'd have to pick up the arms and fight again.

But the cops would still be on that side...

HTRegz omg could you talk anymore BS!

you blame the police, say you hate them....well think what the world would be like without them? maybe they do come across sometimes as defensive or on edge - well what do you expect when day-in day-out they have to deal with ignorant, arrogant lil *****s like you? when all they are trying to do is protect you....but after a speach like the one you jst gave i wish they didn't bother.

If you want to get angry at someone/something get angry at the people who make the laws...or even better get angry at the stupid american public who once again voted Bush into power. But in saying that if the public of america is dumb enough to place a man like that in power for a second time maybe they should be robbed of all their liberties incase they do something stupid with them.

v_Ln

Amen to that Valhallen.

As far as dealing the the FBI or other agencies goes...he's taking the proper steps in seeing that they jump through the right hoops to get their data. Just being a cop doesn't entitle them to get anything they want.

Quote:

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For the most part it's not that we hate cops til we're robbed... it's that we hate cops period... At least that's my opinion... They're one of the lowest forms of scum on the planet. Police Officers, State Troopers, FBI or OPP and RCMP if you prefer... They're lousy people for the most part.... Like firefighters... Have you met a younger firefighter? In his 20s... some hot shot preppie guy who's all high and mighty... and untouchable because he's a brave firefighter.. These people think they are Gods because they have a job that puts their lives at risk.. big deal... I honestly don't care if they're killed or not.. I could be electrocuted opening a computer, but I don't make a big deal about it like I'm some brave person..

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Thats the Biggest load of Bullshit I've heard in a while. If you compare opening up a ****ing computer to running into a burning building to save someone's life....u got issues. They get a lousy pay too....Perhaps in Canada all cops are a bunch of cocks and all the firefighters are a bunch of *****s....but all the cops around here that i've talked to, have been decent people who are trying to help others, make a living and try to make a difference.