The Scot peterson trial

I am so disgusted at our judicial system. Oj gets to walk free and Scott gets sentenced to deathrow. Based on what evidence? So the guy had a lover, that doesn't mean he is a cold blooded murderer. They had no dna evidence, they couldn't even determine laci's death because her body was too decomposed and her head is still missing. His house had no evidence of blood, there was a burglary on that same street that day , but yet nobody seemed to care about that. I don't pressume he's innocent, but there's certainly not enough to evict this guy. That jury , I wonder how they sleep at night after sending a man to deathrow right around x-mas. Any thoughts?

Its about time that piece of **** gets what he deserves. The sad part is that now its going to take forever to get him killed. More of my tax dollars going over senseless expenditures. He should have been right after he was found guilty.

Well I don't live in your country so I can only speak in fairly general terms.

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#1 I am so disgusted at our judicial system. Oj gets to walk free and Scott gets sentenced to deathrow. #2 Based on what evidence? #3 So the guy had a lover, that doesn't mean he is a cold blooded murderer. They had no dna evidence, #4 they couldn't even determine laci's death because her body was too decomposed and her head is still missing. His house had no evidence of blood, there was a burglary on that same street that day , but yet nobody seemed to care about that. #5 I don't pressume he's innocent, but there's certainly not enough to evict this guy. That jury , I wonder how they sleep at night #6 after sending a man to deathrow right around x-mas. Any thoughts?

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OK, I have numbered certain elements of your question and will give the thoughts that you requested:

1. Yes , your and my judicial systems are disgusting. They are based on "contention" rather than a desire to determine and dispense justice. Both sides want to win, and that is all, and the guy with the most money (like OJ?) can afford the best "justice. There is a saying that "justice is blind"...........doesnt mean that she has to be stupid as well?

2. That presented to the jury by slimeball lizards?

3. Exactly, so what?............I am not familiar with the case, but was he "doing things with animals" or whatever would dilute reasonable doubt.

4. Dangerous ground here.....like if he is NOT the guy.......the real killer is still out there and the enforcement agencies have not done their job :eek: And the population is at risk...........

5. To be a juror you must not PRESUME guilt or innocence. I wonder how many of those jurors could spell "presume" and "prejudice"? Similarly, sentimentality should not cloud your decision.

6. If I thought he was guilty, I would not give a damn..........if you think about it, that ties in with 5. above?

OK, those are my thoughts. They are based on a total lack of knowledge of the case, but on a lot of (subsequently admitted) miscarriages of justice in my country.

Cheers

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I am so disgusted at our judicial system. Oj gets to walk free and Scott gets sentenced to deathrow. Based on what evidence? So the guy had a lover, that doesn't mean he is a cold blooded murderer. They had no dna evidence, they couldn't even determine laci's death because her body was too decomposed and her head is still missing. His house had no evidence of blood, there was a burglary on that same street that day , but yet nobody seemed to care about that. I don't pressume he's innocent, but there's certainly not enough to evict this guy. That jury , I wonder how they sleep at night after sending a man to deathrow right around x-mas. Any thoughts?

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First off and sadly, one should know that Christmas means nothing to 'nobody' anymore. Its just a material giving day, not what it was traditionaly meant for: Christ's birth!

He had the perfect alibi: Cheated on his wife and then the dissapearence of her that turned to the death of his wife!?! All too weird to be innocent.. Did you look at any of the pictures or clips of him? He does not look at all upset. Hell, If my wife died and my future child died as well I would be balling; not sitting there with a bored look on my face. Then you have the factor that this has been going since 2002 <am I right here?>. Different pressures would want to have this over with.

I don't know, its too late here and I'm half asleep but I do believe he deserves nothing lighter. If we do not take care of him, God will play it out on him when his time comes.

kurt

I think that the question of death penalty is what is at stake here. So many innocent people were saved from deathrow by the discovery of dna. Meaning there were many innocent people that were going to be murdered by our justice system.
Yes, I agree that he never showed any emotions, but then again, we don't know what kind of a mental state he was in...neither do we know what type of personality the guy had to begin with. A lot of people that lie, make a scene, cry and deny. Many defense lawyers tell their clients not to show any emotion. Secondly, yes, he acted very weird. But the media didn't want to portray an innocent man, so they emphasized only on the negative. Nevermind that he was very cooperative with the detectives from the beginning, nevermind that the evidence was poorly collected and labeled wrong and therefore destroyed.
What makes me wonder is how in the world do you tell cops your aliby is exactly where you dumped your wife's body? Things to make you wonder if this guy is really guilty or not.

Nihil - if you can get a copy over there, watch 'Runaway Jury' - it's based on a John Grisham novel by the same name - most interesting insight into US juries and jury selection.

Moana - on death penalty - sorry, but I'm a Texan.. A good quote from the Blue Collar Comedy Tour might help clarify a bit.

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Texas is now considering a law that if more than 3 people witnessed you committing a capital crime, you get placed at the head of the line to be executed. Most states are debating whether or not the death penalty is legitimate. My state's putting in an EXPRESS LANE.

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Fry the bastard. Guilt *beyond a reasonable doubt* is good enough.

My first responce is who gives a crap about this guy? There are a lot more important things going on in the world that could have more time on the TV, but what do you see? Scott Peterson this and Scott Peterson that....

And death row? The guy is in California. He will sit on Death Row for another 20 years.

Now I was checking out the the statistics for California State prisons the other day and found this. (http://www.corr.ca.gov/Communication...nce_status.asp)

Acording to this we have executed 10 people since 1978. He has a higher change of commiting suicide, dying or having the sentence overturned than acutally being executed.

Oops. Now it's personal. I login to check the boards and find this waiting for me...

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I'm against death penalty. That simple reason is good enough to add negative antipoints.

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From some newbie named Iconoclasta who hasn't had the balls to post here anyways and is therefore unworthy of any respect. Aha! There's his other post... You see, I'm PRO death penalty, AND I carry a bit more ap's than you....so...oops! Hmm. Maybe stupidity is painful after all...

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...372#post811372

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...From some newbie named Iconoclasta who hasn't had the balls to post here anyways and is therefore unworthy of any respect. ..

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Yup hate when that happens!:mad: I had these kinds of 'newbies' email me, pm me, and even put meta redirect tags in my guestbook<---Now that deserves no respect.. pfff. If you look throughout the member list you will see that there are 'hundreds' of these members. pfff oh well.

kurt

|3lack|ce, I was unable to respond you on the other thread since it was closed. I learned a lesson on the APs. First I assigned points on an area where I didn't know it was a big nono. It was a mistake and I understand that. As someone who claims to be a senior member on this forum who makes valid points in which a lot of people agree with, giving me a negative point was the way to go?

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It's rather stupid for you to neg someone because they are pro death penalty and you aren't, don't you think? It serves no purpose other than starting a Neg war, which I'm sure you don't want at this stage of your newbie life.

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You see, I really don't see a war of this kind to serve any purpose. I will not start a neg war because I'm past the "I know who you are, but what am I?" stage, not only as a newbie on an internet forum, but also in life. I speak my mind and observe the etiquete of the other forum members but past that, it's not too important for me to be admired as wise or intellectual person by any group because I have other more important concerns in life (family, bills, job). I guess I'm past stage that too!

Ok, so we bring this here- another newbie nono, but I'll bite into you over it anyways.

First off, I never once claimed to be a senior member - I'm not. If you look just beneath my name at the little sidebar here you'll see I'm an addict. Thats 2 pegs above newbie, one peg above AO member, and one below senior. Learn about the place before you post about it.

Secondly, Why did you neg me in the first place genious? YOU brought this onto yourself, not me. I did what any person would do if hit in the nose - I hit you back. Harder. Now go cry about it somewhere else instead of being offtopic in here. It ends, now. If you want the last word, that's fine. I'm through with you, and your whining. Welcome to the wonderful world of "ignore."

I'm just posting back because you asked me a question:

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Secondly, Why did you neg me in the first place genious? YOU brought this onto yourself, not me. I did what any person would do if hit in the nose - I hit you back. Harder.

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I gave you a neg out of stupidity and not knowing how this forum works and for that I apologize. And, I don't hit back, specially when I'm trying to prove that I know the rules better and that my posts are superior. I left that attitude a while ago althought I'm still a human being and I know I still have my faults and limitations. It comes with age, you know?

I wasn't the first one to post off topic. Anyway, I guess I grew out of the old "an eye for an eye" too. Maybe that's why I'm so against the death penalty.

Thanks for showing me where the member ratings are. I couldn't find it if it wasn't for you. :rolleyes:

Scott Peterson was convicted and sentenced... he did the crime now he will pay for it. I think he got what he deserved... but Cali is so damn slow in executing people! since 1978 they have executed TEN PEOPLE and they have 600+ waiting to be executed. over TWENTY inmates on death row have died on natural causes! they is just a shame that tax payers pay to keep all those ppl alive waiting for them to be executed then they die of natural causes! here in Texas we speed things up a little lol.

Forget the death penalty just bring back hard labour. As it is the death penalty in the US is not even applied fairly. The death penalty is reserved mainly for the poorer classes IMHO. I am for the death penalty only in very few cases. Child sex offenders where murder is involved, police killings( the police force in Ireland is still largly unarmed).

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Originally posted here by MURACU
Forget the death penalty just bring back hard labour. As it is the death penalty in the US is not even applied fairly. The death penalty is reserved mainly for the poorer classes IMHO. I am for the death penalty only in very few cases. Child sex offenders where murder is involved, police killings( the police force in Ireland is still largly unarmed).

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I agree. I think we should make people who commit very bad crimes (OK City Bombing) work their asses off for the 10 years of their life before they die from being worked so hard. Treat em like the dogs they are. Or alternativly, do the same thing they did to the victim. (happens a lot to rapists, if you know what I mean ;)) I don't think it's cruel and unusual punishment if that's what the criminal did to the victim. Must not be very "cruel and unusual" in that person's opinion.

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Originally posted here by The Texan
Scott Peterson was convicted and sentenced... he did the crime now he will pay for it. I think he got what he deserved... but Cali is so damn slow in executing people! since 1978 they have executed TEN PEOPLE and they have 600+ waiting to be executed. over TWENTY inmates on death row have died on natural causes! they is just a shame that tax payers pay to keep all those ppl alive waiting for them to be executed then they die of natural causes! here in Texas we speed things up a little lol.

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Spoken like a true texan.... The only place where you can still choose hanging as the way you want to die.

Isnt that the purpose, not to speed things up, but to make damn sure that this person is the one who did the crime? So we are not executing the wrong person. People have been on death row for years and then been cleared because of DNA evidence that until recently, was not possible to check.

Being efficient and quick is not always the best way to do things. I am for one glad that California waits on these things.

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I agree. I think we should make people who commit very bad crimes (OK City Bombing) work their asses off for the 10 years of their life before they die from being worked so hard. Treat em like the dogs they are. Or alternativly, do the same thing they did to the victim. (happens a lot to rapists, if you know what I mean ) I don't think it's cruel and unusual punishment if that's what the criminal did to the victim. Must not be very "cruel and unusual" in that person's opinion

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They have started some programs like this (labor programs) in Arizona. They require you to work and if you dont want to work, then you sit outside in a cage. (So you cannot just say you dont want to work and sit inside all day)

Dont get me wrong, i think people should have time to prove their innocence if they are innocent but 20+ years on death row with tay payers money.... i think not! just get it over with. Texas has pretty much fine tuned this system i think although i will admit they dont have it perfect.

Basically Peterson simply got a free pass to get away from general prison population and a chance to appeal since he was convicted on circunstancial evidence. He might get off now!

I think that what made the jury convict him was the defense opening statement where they said they would prove beyond doubt that Peterson was innocent instead of fighting the prosecution's circumstantial evidence.

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"The evidence is going to show that Scott Peterson is not only not guilty, the evidence is going to show that he is stone cold innocent."

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The jury waited for the proof and they got nothing. I also believe that emotion took place in the court room and helped them to convict him which is beyond me.

Do I believe he is guilty? Yes! Was the evidence very thin? Yes! I rather have a guilty guy walking on the streets than a innocent on death row.

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Originally posted here by nihil

<snip>
5. To be a juror you must not PRESUME guilt or innocence. I wonder how many of those jurors could spell "presume" and "prejudice"? Similarly, sentimentality should not cloud your decision.
<snip>
Cheers

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Incorrect. I am quite sure that all the civilized nations of the world grant the Presumption of Innocence as a basic and fundamental human right. Most have it as a component of thier Highest Law, such as the Constitution (U.S) or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Canada). It is the founding tenet that all proper justice in this world is based on.

As for capital punishment, I have only one thing to say. I do believe that some people deserve death. However, that does not give us the right to kill them.

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As for capital punishment, I have only one thing to say. I do believe that some people deserve death. However, that does not give us the right to kill them.

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Very interesting thought. I think that is a great way to put it. What do you believe should be their punishment to keep them from hurting society any more than they already have?

It's probably safe to say, if your state has the DP, it's costing Taxpayers more money.

"Death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment."

"# The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

# The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).

# The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater."

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod
And death row? The guy is in California. He will sit on Death Row for another 20 years.

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See, CA has the cheapest form of the DP, plus they look good at the same time. Life without parole, get shanked with a toothbrush and die in the yard or lunch-line. Really, effective!

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod
Spoken like a true texan.... The only place where you can still choose hanging as the way you want to die.

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Wow, folklore!
According to the National Death Penalty Center TX DP is "Lethal injection is the sole method." The only states that have hangings are New Hampshire and Washington.

A juvenile at the time, murdered my greatgrandmother with his foot, during a home invasion for an old TV and some jewelry. Do I think he should be sitting on DR? Nah, he ****ed up when he was a kid. Life without parole should be his punishment.

By punishment, do you mean a corrective measure or a retaliatory measure? We must remmeber that the penal system serves 3 purposes:

1. To punish offenders for their actions.
2. To prevent them from hurting the innocent.
3. To rehabilitate the offender.

Punishing the offenders is immediately served by placing them in prison. The question then becomes, what is the correct amount of time to place them in jail for? This is a decision best left to lawmakers and judge panels.

However this is not sufficient where the offense goes beyond a mere crime, and others are hurt as a result of these actions. The problem then is how to best rehabilitate the offender. In some cases, the act of punishing them for their crime is enought to prevent its future occurence. Unfortunately, reactive measures beyond punishment by incarceration have not been effectively used yet.

In cases where death penalties would be handed out, I do not agree that hard labour is an appropriate alternative. These people have been incarcerated not as a punishment, but to prevent their harming people again.Where punishment does not serve as a deterrent, I do not agree with its application.

If these people cannot be rehabilitated by means at our disposal, life imprisonment becomes the only effectives solution to execution.

<edit>
In response to !mitationRusts's post above, I would like to state my opinion that the cost should have absolutely no impact on our decision to execute people or not. No value can be placed on life, so bringing money into an argument where life is at stake is immoral IMHO.
</edit>

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Originally posted here by Striek
By punishment, do you mean a corrective measure or a retaliatory measure? We must remmeber that the penal system serves 3 purposes:

1. To punish offenders for their actions.
2. To prevent them from hurting the innocent.
3. To rehabilitate the offender.

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I think you're trying to separate 1 and 2, when they really tie together. 1 and 3 tie together aswell. Plus, 3 and 2 tie together. ;)

Life without parole, hmmm, let's see. Hmm, he's being punished, he's prevented from hurting the public and he's going through rehabilitation.

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Originally posted here by Striek In cases where death penalties would be handed out, I do not agree that hard labour is an appropriate alternative. These people have been incarcerated not as a punishment, but to prevent their harming people again.Where punishment does not serve as a deterrent, I do not agree with its application.

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You're trying to place someone in 1 of 3 categories, when they actually belong in all three. This is where the money comes in. (Labor=Food) thus saves money, so more prisons can be established, so more justice is served and more people are safe.

All i can say is I believe he did it and I do believe in the death penalty but I dont know scott peterson personally so i cant judge him other than by his actions... i hope he makes his peace with God.

I don't know. Maybe he is guilty and maybe he is not. All I know is that I don't wish someone to die based on personal feelings. Actually, I gotta say that don't wish anyone to die period.

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Wow, folklore!
According to the National Death Penalty Center TX DP is "Lethal injection is the sole method." The only states that have hangings are New Hampshire and Washington.

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Wow. I had actually heard this from a Texan that you could choose hanging over another form of the death pentalty. Looks like they may of been wrong.

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Originally posted here by The Grunt
Very interesting thought. I think that is a great way to put it. What do you believe should be their punishment to keep them from hurting society any more than they already have?

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i have an idea.
- Givem to them a .45 revolver and a Brazlian Cop Uniform
- Send them to Rio de Janeiro
- Make them climb the Hills and shout on loud "Police!!!!"
- Instant death. Really fast.

Texas is one of the few states where hanging is still on the books - it's in our state constitution. Only one crime carries hanging as the penalty however, that of cattle rustling, however I'm quite sure that lethal injection (or being shot by the cattle's rightful owner if caught in the act) would be more in line with the times. It isn't an option given to capital criminals. The last legal hanging in Texas occurred in 1923 (Roy Mitchell, hanged for murder), after which the state switched to the electric chair, then to Lethal injection in 1977.


sources:
http://sbt.bhmedia.com/laws.html
http://www.texaslawreporter.com/
http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/vlibra...hpenprint.html

Back on to Scot Peterson (sen, however his name is spelled) - I still maintain that this individual is guilty, and should be executed for his crime. I base this on the fact that a jury of his peers found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore by our laws, he did it. In a state like Florida (quite liberal as compared to Texas, where we execute for parking violations) the jury saw fit to give him the ultimate punishment for his crime. This in and unto itself is proof that the jury had no doubts whatsoever as to his guilt. In addition, and a fact little known to the common masses, the judge presiding over his trial could have at any time overturned both verdict and penalty had he disagreed with them, or suspected they'd overlooked something, or if whim or political views had so guided him to do so. The jury found him guilty, awarded death, the judge didn't overrule them. I said 'fry the bastard' once before, and I stick by it.

I personally have reservations about the death penalty.

1. I do not believe that it should be available when the evidence is circumstantial, or based ENTIRELY on pseudo-forensics like "ear prints", "glove prints" etc.

2. I do not believe that it should be available in a system that is based on contention rather than facts.

3. I believe that just as the State and religion should be kept apart, so should politics and the legal system.

I would feel happier with a death sentence given by a Scottish or French court than one from a UK or US one. This is because their methodology is more designed to determine the truth. For example the verdict in Scotland can be:
1. Guilty
2. Not Guilty
3. Not Proven

In France, you have to appear before three examining magistrates who decide if there is a case to answer. In court you have three judges and nine jurors.

Although we appear not to have the death penalty in the UK, we actually still do :eek:

1. Arson in Her Majeesty's dockyards.
2. High Treason.
3. Endagering the Royal Succession
4. Piracy on the High Seas (BlackIce will like that one! :xbones)

Just my thoughts

Is he dead yet?

No he is not, the appeal process has not even started.............I guess that the first move is to appeal the verdict, then appeal the sentence. I am not sure how it works in America?

Appeals in the US -

Defense attorney appeals verdict to state circuit court of appeals - depending on the reason given in the appeal (error in the trial, new evidence, unconstitutionality, etc.) it may be investigated in full or in part. If the appellate reason is proven, the conviction is overturned. Otherwise, and only in cases where the death penalty is awarded,

Appeal is automatically forwarded to the State Supreme Court - they investigate the constitutionality of the case, making sure that none of the defendant's rights were infringed upon during the proceedings, and that the death penalty he was awarded 'fits the crime' he was found guilty of committing.

If the verdict isn't overturned at the State Supreme Court level, the defendant then has the option to appeal the the US (federal) court system, starting at the US District Court of Appeals (who investigates just like the state district court), on upwards to the US Supreme Court, who has the option to review the case or not, and has final say in all cases, period. Most convicts don't pursue cases this high up in the appellate process unless they've got a lot of money on their side (read "legal defense fund" - even Michael Jackson couldn't afford to appeal on the federal level without help.)

If the case isn't overturned even after going through all the appeals processes, the convicted still has the right to appeal to the State Governor for clemency - a reduced sentence. The Governor's staff reviews the case, and in some cases the Governor might commute his sentence to life imprisonment, or even pardon him. The former is very rare. The latter, almost nonexistant. All this must be done in a very timely manner, because once the final appeal is lost, the 'countdown clock' to execution begins - usually anywhere from 2 weeks to a month after the final appeal the convict is executed.

Thanks to Mrs. |ce for steering me through all this!

Thank YOU Mr. & Mrs |ce,

I am now much better informed :) Over here we get information through the media, and I do not trust it one bit!.................the other day there was a cute picture of a fox trotting past #10 Downing Street (our prime minister's residence)..........the newspaper referred to it as "he", when anyone with eyesight could tell immediately that it was a vixen! (foxy lady?)

They frequently refer to "automatic revolvers", "9mm revolvers"..............OK I have seen a picture of a prototype of the first (the problem is the loss of pressure when the bullet jumps the gap between the cylinders and the forcing cone?)...........and I have actually fired the latter, but they are rather rare.........it was a French MAB I think. The problem is when you look at the pictures they are standard S&W, Colt and Browning products ;)

Yes it looks like you have a similar hierarchical process of appeal................except that over here the taxpayer would fund it all the way to the top!!!!......it is called "legal aid"...........I actually had my second divorce paid for by the State!...........I was made redundant and did not have a job for a few weeks :D

Thankyou again for the information..........I prefer to get it from people I feel that I "know" and can trust, than just Google it.