Canada and cannabis

Here is one for Gore. Of course they will start the debate about weather cannabis could be legalised or not.

bbc source

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Cannabis hopes bolster drugs firm

The drug is grown at a secret farm in the English countryside
A prescription cannabis drug made by UK biotech firm GW Pharmaceuticals is set to be approved in Canada.
The drug is used to treat the central nervous system and alleviate the symptoms of multiple sclerosis (MS).

A few weeks ago, shares in GW Pharma lost a third of their value after UK regulators said they wanted more evidence about the drug's benefits.
But now Canadian authorities have said the Sativex drug will be considered for approval.

Landmark

Approximately 50,000 people in Canada have been diagnosed with MS and 85,000 people are suffering from the condition in the UK.
Many patients already smoke cannabis to relieve their symptoms.

Now, GW Pharma's Sativex mouth spray could be legally available to MS sufferers in Canada within the next few months.
This will be the first time a cannabis-based drug has been approved anywhere in the world, representing a landmark for GW Pharma and for patients with MS.
Final approval in Canada should now be little more than a formality, analysts said, and the company expects full approval for Sativex early in 2005.

"We are delighted to receive this qualifying notice from Health Canada and look forward to receiving regulatory approval for Sativex in Canada in the early part of 2005," said GW Pharma executive chairman Dr Geoffrey Guy.

Secret farm

The UK government granted GW Pharma a licence to grow the cannabis plant for medical research purposes.
Satifex consists of a cannabis extract containing tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol, a cocktail that has also proved effective in treating patients with arthritis.
Thousands of plants are grown at a secret location somewhere in the English countryside.
Despite hopes of regulatory approval last year, a series of delays has put back Sativex's launch in the UK.

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Ricky Williams can't wait for the NFL to expand outside the U.S. :D

Yes, we started that debate. About five years ago. It's nothing new.

Many Canadians have simply come to realize that the money spent on enforcing the prohibition of marijuana is simply not justified by the benefits it provides.

The current debate here centres not around legalizing it, but arount 'decriminalizing' it. Rather than a criminal record for a minor pot posession charge, police would issue tickets much in the same way speeding tickets are already issued.

I for one am proud to live in a country where such a debate is encouraged, rather than one where closed minds would prevent it. The merits of decriminalizing it are not my point. My point is that most countries continue to fight these things regardless of any debate on whether or not they should. I believe that that debate is a good thing.

They have a big gro-op in Flin Flon in one of the old mines so they can keep it safe.

About ****ing time.


Heh, I don't smoke pot, I'm an Opiates man myself. And even the complete ****ing morons who run the show with what is legal know better than to say Opiates are bad. No one would be able to put upw ith pain if Opiates were illegal. It's the fastest working, best drug ever.

Canada deserves a pat on the back for this. Nothing less would even begin to say thank you. Finally humanity realises for the.... 5th time? That Drugs are good and more help than harm.

It's only when it's popular by media that people care. Tylenol used to have illegal drugs in it a long time ago.

Just a couple of points.

We have a subsidised state medical service over here. MS sufferers would almost certainly be receiving disability benefit and free medication, paid for by the British taxpayer. That is why we are more cautious than other countries where you pay for your medication privately.

I have seen cannabis cigarettes taken from an old pharmacy. I believe that they were for treating asthma. So this is not the first medical use of cannabis in the UK.

;)

Is there any truth in the rumour that Coca-Cola onced used to contain extract of coca plant (cocaine)?

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Originally posted here by nihil
Is there any truth in the rumour that Coca-Cola onced used to contain extract of coca plant (cocaine)?

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http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

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Originally posted here by Drakain Zeil
It's only when it's popular by media that people care. Tylenol used to have illegal drugs in it a long time ago.

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Illegal? Back before 1905 there wasn't a **** of a lot you could call illegal. Opium, Heroin, Pot, over tyhe counter. Tylenol is nothing but aceatominophen.

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Originally posted here by Drakain Zeil
It's only when it's popular by media that people care. Tylenol used to have illegal drugs in it a long time ago.

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Certain version like T3 still do. Its available in the US by perscription only. It contains Codenie. Similar to the 222 available over the counter in Canada but with a much higher dose of Codine.

Regards,
-D

Pot used to treat asthma? OMFG. lol.

Man I love 222s. You can boil them down and get the Tylenol and or Aspirin out, and then you have a big mess of Codiene and Caffiene left. Which makes the Codiene go through you faster because Caffiene is a Diarhetic (SP?) and pumps it through. It rocks. Me and my best friend used to make ti into liquid and have Codiene shots where we used a shot glass instead of a table spoon. AWESOME. If you ever have a head ache, I highly (Pun intended) recommend it.

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Originally posted here by RoadClosed
Pot used to treat asthma? OMFG. lol.

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Pot treating asthma is still done today in medical marijuana states in the US...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...125EST0563.DTL

The smoke can be an irritant to people with asthma, but you don't have to smoke pot to enjoy it and reap its medical benefits. Eating it and vaporizing are always more healthy options.

Pot expands your breathing airways, opens capillaries in lungs or something like that allowing especially people with asthma to breathe easier.

[QUOTE] Originally posted here by nihil
[B]Just a couple of points.

We have a subsidised state medical service over here. MS sufferers would almost certainly be receiving disability benefit and free medication, paid for by the British taxpayer. That is why we are more cautious than other countries where you pay for your medication privately.


We've had universal healthcare here for decades...everything is subsidised, even drugs coming up from the US are provided by American Drug Companies at below market values ( by contract with the Canadian Government )especially for the Canadian Market.

They've been debating the decriminalization of pot for more than ten years...even produced packaging for it once ( just like cigarette packs )...I think it was R.J.Renolds in Montreal that designed it, but this was before the the warning fiasco on cigarette packs.

I don't smoke, shoot, pop, or even drink...but I have nothing against any as long as it doesn't affect anyone but the user ( everything is ok in moderation and if you can control it, if you can't moderate or control then don't use).

Health is just the modern excuse that the government wants to use to avoid bearing the cost of putting pot smokers in jail and spending millions of dollars to enforce something that is less of a cramp on society than alcohol and it's side affects from liver and ulcer problems to drunk driving and domestic violence. Alcohol is by far the more costly of the two and creates the more widespread problems. I've yet to meet the person who smokes a bag of weed and goes home and beats his wife and kids, sets fire to the house and runs down the street shooting innocent by-standers.

:D

I've always had the opinion that society is not ready, hold on, "American" society is not ready for legalized drug use. In fact some should NEVER be legal, they basically incapacitate another human into nothing - A void. But, I am and always have been for a slow release in restriction for SOCIETY and culture. The effort used to control and incarcerate people is ridiculous. UNLESS they prey on children It is true that drug use does force some to commit violent acts but those incarcerated for use, as though they murdered someone, are undeserving. BUT don't give me the BULLSHIT that using a drug in force and recreation is beneficial to health outside of severe mental disorder. Sure it helps the crazy ****er who rapes women but so does death.

//EDIT

LOL, I have asthma.... so it's good for me to inhale pollutants. They make my lungs feel better as they coat cilia with particles left over from combustion or vaporizing. No offense but there are 100 better ways to treat asthma. If ya want the smoke just say so. "I want to get high."

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Originally posted here by RoadClosed "American" society is not ready for legalized drug use.

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Bullshit. There never were drugs laws until 1904. I think they aren't ready for prohibition. If society wasn't ready our jails wouldn't be full of non-violent recreationists. You know what, put the wife beating child beating drunks in jail, leave us the **** alone.

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In fact some should NEVER be legal,

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Pot has more medicinal values than most pharmacies.

Cocain is the only reason Eye surgery is even possible. And don't get me started on what your Dentist has in his little bag of tricks. that **** they rub on your gums isn't Jack Daniels.


Meth is the reason we won WW2. Go ahead, ask the troops what they were given before being sent of into battle. It sure as **** wasn't No-Doz.

LSD is used in Mental Hotpitals and so is MDMA. And well, LSD / BSD, yea, you're welcome for the internet *******. Berkeley created TCP/IP, that made the Internet, they were heavy drug users, and they invented this thing called the internet you're using to bash them.

Opiates are the reason..... Well, the World's FIRST Anti-Depressent was Opium. Opium, unlike Prozac doesn't need up to 4 weeks to take effect, and it doesn't cause severe depression and suicidal thoughts like Prozac Can. Opium was the World's first Anti-Diarhea medication too, which was what it was used for long before it was used for pain. Opium was the first caugh medicine too. They didn't have "Halls" in 1200 AD, they have Opium, and lots of it.

Don't even get me started on the pain killer side of it. If it wasn't for Morphine which is one of two main active ingrediants in Opium, Surgery would become hell. Me being someone who has chronic back pain and Migraines, I can tell you, nothing touches a Migrain head ache except Morphine. Vicodin can in LARGE doses, but Morphine is the only thing that works.

hmmm so far we have cured depression, pain, the shits, and caughing, oh, how about another just for the hell of it. Opium rubbed on skin can cure rashes. **** vasalolin.

Before the 1900s, when someone died, the funeral had a huge containor of wine. The wine was mixed with Opium because even then people knew it was the only drug in the world that can actually kill depression.

Emotional and Physical pain both get their asses kciked by Opiates. It's a fact. and anyone who has ever even ONCE taken Morphine without being in pain can tell you how it feels like a 6 hour slow contant orgasm. My garden this summer could have landed me in prison. Why? Because of **** ups like the DEA (thanks Nixon) and ****ing morons who actually believe that bullshit they're force fed by the police.

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they basically incapacitate another human into nothing - A void.

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Name ONE drug that does that. I don't mean MAN made either. While you're busy trying to think of something that actually does that, burn all your CDs, Records, and tapes. No good musician was ever sober.

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It is true that drug use does force some to commit violent acts

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You're right, Alcohol is terrible. And don't even tell me about the dope Fiend you saw kill someone for a fix either. That is because they are illegal. Remember the 20s and 30s? Remember History class teaching about prohibition and how the only thing that came from that was gang wars in the streets and people having to kill for money to pay the high prices the mob had? Remember how they stopped all the killings and the violence? THEY LEGALIZED IT AGAIN.

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BUT don't give me the BULLSHIT that using a drug in force and recreation is beneficial to health outside of severe mental disorder.

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Think about that long and hard next time you're shitting your pants and need something to clog you, the next time you're in a lot of pain, the next time you're going in for surgery, and the next time you're depressed.

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Sure it helps the crazy ****er who rapes women but so does death.

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.... What part of your rectum did that come from? No one on an Opiate would have any thoughts of rape. Trust me I know. It takes away your abilitys to think that way. And how many pot heads have you HONESTLY seen ever hurt someone?

Don't even bother bringing up car accidents, because Alcohol does MUCH worse. Treat it like booze and don't drive on it and the problem is solved. A recent study showed people who drive stoned are safer drivers than people who drive drunk. The drunks smacked into things and couldn't stay in the lines, the pot smokers drove slowly and made it to each destination safely.

The driving test I took to get my lisence, I took it high.

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LOL, I have asthma.... so it's good for me to inhale pollutants. They make my lungs feel better as they coat cilia with particles left over from combustion or vaporizing. No offense but there are 100 better ways to treat asthma. If ya want the smoke just say so. "I want to get high."

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Pfft, name 30. That's less than half.

I think the mistake people make about pot is it impairs people.


Pot is a mood alterer...not an impairment...something like all the prescription drugs that are out there.

I dont see the police testing drivers for prescription drugs......I have seen ALOT of PINNED, messed up people doing scripts....

Impaired driving is BAD...whether it be alcohol, pot, scripts...or being over tired (which by the way has been proven in the UK to be more of an impairment then pot and almost as bad as alcohol!)

Its like Chris Rocks dialog on drug companies (which I caught New Years Eve)

"They dont want you doing your own drugs...they want you to do THIERS"

(quote may not be exact do to cannabis memory :cool: )

For years I never have had a TV in my home...but recently (due to my partner moving in) :) I have had the pleasure :rolleyes:
of watching TV .....and the pharmaceutical ads depicting life SO much better with "drugs"

They have a drug for EVERYTHING

Kinda a double standard...dont you think

MLF

It's a known fact that while intoxicated I drive much better drunk. At least to me.

gore you do realize I stated a gradual and controlled change in society is OK with me? Just not for bullshit medical reasons, considering the list of choices you provided they are all already available for that in extracted forms. And on the pot issue, there are more effective drugs that do that job better in every scenario. SO the medical argument is BS. But America may eventually buy it. If Pot became legal tomorrow I wouldn't give a ****. For that matter the ingredients that are medicinal can be extracted, you don't have to grow the plant and roll it into a cig to reap the benefits. Medicinal use - BS ; Chanage in society for legal recreational use - OK

You always pinpoint your arguments to the safer drugs. So you yourself share my same point of view to a degree. Legalize some, leave the others out of the mix. **** it's eaier to get a meth than a cuban cigar anyway.

Real Cuban Cigars have pot in them ;) Crack is one that should not be legal. LSD should be case by case.

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No offense but there are 100 better ways to treat asthma. If ya want the smoke just say so. "I want to get high."

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Just want to point out that ScotchGuy explained that you don't have to smoke pot, there are many other ways to take it. If it helps the airways to expand, I'm all up for it, especially considering some of the over the counter drugs you can get that do similar things are addictive (as in they work less as you use them and bring on worse symptoms when you stop).

ac

Legalize all of it...sell it through pharmacies at slightly above cost ( if you eliminate the profit element on the street you eliminate the problem...it's the money not the drugs that drives the drug trade)...document and track the users...and not only will you eliminate the criminal elements you'll also have a record of use and users to plan future stategies. :)

I was talking abou this in another thread, along time ago... but Alaska has always been very liberal in their Marijuana laws, then I found this a few minutes ago. Their government website has a form to request access to it's "health" benefits. :D

http://health.hss.state.ak.us/dph/bvs/marijuana.htm

Yeh..Alaska !!! :D

Like i said above...they should legalize all of it...and so forth...see above.

Good link...I'm pretty sure I've seen it before...but it's still a good link!!! :thumbsup:

We’re covering all this drugs-stuff in one of my courses, so I figured I should start a little discussion with Gore (only in the interest of my studies, of course).

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Cocaine is the only reason Eye surgery is even possible. And don't get me started on what your Dentist has in his little bag of tricks. that **** they rub on your gums isn't Jack Daniels.

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That should read: the only reason eye surgery used to be possible. Koller discovered that cocaine could be used as a local anesthetic. Nowadays, the use of cocaine is regarded as unprofessional (although some (very few!)) dentists still use it. Let’s not forget though that in this case, cocaine is used as a local anesthetic (in other words: it’s merely poured in the eye), and not as a psychoactive drug (in other words: it doesn’t enter the blood).
Bad argument for drugs 

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Meth is the reason we won WW2. Go ahead, ask the troops what they were given before being sent of into battle. It sure as **** wasn't No-Doz.

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That’s just not true.

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LSD is used in Mental Hotpitals and so is MDMA. And well, LSD / BSD, yea, you're welcome for the internet *******. Berkeley created TCP/IP, that made the Internet, they were heavy drug users, and they invented this thing called the internet you're using to bash them.

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MDMA, or XTX, used to be used in mental hospitals – not anymore (we’re not talking about some local freaks here, I hope). One of the most potent drugs known to man, LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) is a hallucinogen, and has no medical use – and has never had. And you make it sound like all of Berkeley was dropping acid back then…

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Opiates are the reason..... Well, the World's FIRST Anti-Depressent was Opium. Opium, unlike Prozac doesn't need up to 4 weeks to take effect, and it doesn't cause severe depression and suicidal thoughts like Prozac Can. Opium was the World's first Anti-Diarhea medication too, which was what it was used for long before it was used for pain. Opium was the first caugh medicine too. They didn't have "Halls" in 1200 AD, they have Opium, and lots of it.

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Opiates (morphine, heroin, codeine,…) are indeed named after the opium poppy. Its medical uses are indeed a fact (opiates mimick the brain’s natural painkillers – endorphins), but there’s a risk: repeated flooding of the brain with artificial opiates (be it opium, morphine, codeine,…) causes the brain to stop producing its own opiates (that’s why they’re so addictive). Result: if you don’t continue taking them for the rest of your life, you’ll be miserable. But then again: if you continue taking them for the rest of your life, you’ll be miserable as well...

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Don't even get me started on the pain killer side of it. If it wasn't for Morphine which is one of two main active ingrediants in Opium, Surgery would become hell. Me being someone who has chronic back pain and Migraines, I can tell you, nothing touches a Migrain head ache except Morphine. Vicodin can in LARGE doses, but Morphine is the only thing that works.

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Yes, it’s a pain killer, and a good one: it literally numbs your senses. And again: if you stop taking it, your body won't produce its natural endorphins anymore, making the pain worse. To prevent that, you'll have to take morphine again.... ad nauseum :)

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Originally posted here by Negative
We’re covering all this drugs-stuff in one of my courses, so I figured I should start a little discussion with Gore (only in the interest of my studies, of course).

That should read: the only reason eye surgery used to be possible. Koller discovered that cocaine could be used as a local anesthetic. Nowadays, the use of cocaine is regarded as unprofessional (although some (very few!)) dentists still use it. Let’s not forget though that in this case, cocaine is used as a local anesthetic (in other words: it’s merely poured in the eye), and not as a psychoactive drug (in other words: it doesn’t enter the blood).
Bad argument for drugs 


That’s just not true.

MDMA, or XTX, used to be used in mental hospitals – not anymore (we’re not talking about some local freaks here, I hope). One of the most potent drugs known to man, LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) is a hallucinogen, and has no medical use – and has never had. And you make it sound like all of Berkeley was dropping acid back then…


Opiates (morphine, heroin, codeine,…) are indeed named after the opium poppy. Its medical uses are indeed a fact (opiates mimick the brain’s natural painkillers – endorphins), but there’s a risk: repeated flooding of the brain with artificial opiates (be it opium, morphine, codeine,…) causes the brain to stop producing its own opiates (that’s why they’re so addictive). Result: if you don’t continue taking them for the rest of your life, you’ll be miserable. But then again: if you continue taking them for the rest of your life, you’ll be miserable as well...


Yes, it’s a pain killer, and a good one: it literally numbs your senses. And again: if you stop taking it, your body won't produce its natural endorphins anymore, making the pain worse. To prevent that, you'll have to take morphine again.... ad nauseum :)

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About 3 years ago a friend of mine got put away for like a year or so, and he said they still had MDMA there. Maybe in 3 years it has been taken out of there, but last I heard, here in Michigan, it's still in use.


There are studies being done for the Opiates showing that it's just not true that using them overloads your brain's ability to produce them yourself, and after 4 years of use, well, I can still be happy without them, just my personal belief is God put them here and put parts in your brain for them because he wanted us using them.

The Opiate receptors in your brain are NOT the only part of the human brain which does nothing but process Opiate use. There is another part of the brain a guy found in the 70s which was not known about and after studying it, it was found the part of that brain and the Opiate receptors are there for the sole purpose of Opiate use. Humans were made to use Opium.

The part you said about Morphine numbing your body, well, that is half true. some people react to Opiates with a numbing effect, but a lot of people I've met and most medical white papers describe effects as not a "numb" but more, the perception of pain is changed so that you know it's there, but the pain doesn't hurt anymore. It changes it, and the way you can still feel it and tell if it gets worse makes Opiates the best Pain medication on Earth, if pain gets worse usually a Dr should be told, but on anything but an Opiate you wouldn't know if it got worse.

One thing stands true, Morphine use without being in pain feels like a slow constant orgasm for about 6 hours.

To me, using an Opiate generally takes away my leg pain and my knee pain so I can walk, cures my back problems, cures my ADD so I can actually concentrate in school (Got another great report card last week, all As except one B) and I could never do that before.

I laugh when people tell me drugs wull ruin my life. Before I did drugs I got all Es and could never do school work because I couldn't concentrate, and I got kicked out, and worked at Mcdonalds. Now I'm in college, took and passed my GED tests high, got such a "high" score I got the highschool equiv instead of GED cert and now I'm in College getting all As. Yea I'm so ruining my life lol.

For LSD, heh, I have some LOVELY caught on video **** you'd LOVE which has to do with the US Army giving it to the troops and .... I think it was a space program giving it to them too. I have it here on video somewhere. Funny ****.

I have quite a few nice quotes from Drs too, saying they have had patients take Morphine or other Opiates for 20 years or more with no moral, metal or physical downsides. It depends on the person taking it and how they handle it. It's obviouse in my case it does more good.

Every Bastard story I've written for AO, every tutorial, every "funny" project I wrote for AO, was all done Narcotized.





EDIT:

almost forgot:

Uhhh Neggy, about the Meth, OK so it may have not won the war, but are you of all people going to tell me Meth wasn't used A LOT in wars, including WW2, to keep the bomber fliers awake?

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Recalling the American airborne invasion of Normandy during World War II in his 1962 book Night Drop, Army colonel and combat historian S.L.A. Marshall wrote: "The United States Army is indifferent toward common-sense rules by which the energy of men may be conserved in combat."

Pilots from the Air Force 183rd Fighter Wing felt the reverberations of Marshall's assessment -- which is cited on page 3 of the Navy's official guide for managing fatigue -- last April. According to reports published in Canada, they misidentified a target during a bombing run over Iraq. Meeting with their commanders, they complained they were exhausted, that the "common-sense" rule of 12 hours of rest between missions was being ignored.

In return they got two pieces of advice: Stop whining and visit the flight surgeon for some "go/no-go" pills.

About a week later, two members of the 183rd, Majs. Harry Schmidt and William Umbach, launched a laser-guided bomb on a Canadian training force, killing four and injuring eight.

At a recently concluded Article 32 hearing to determine if the pilots should be court-martialed for manslaughter, assault and dereliction of duty, Schmidt and Umbach's attorneys claimed it was the Air Force's dextro-amphetamine (trade name, Dexedrine) tablets, aka speed, that killed the Canadians, not Schmidt and Umbach.

Originally used to treat asthma and other breathing disorders, amphetamines were discovered in the late 19th century. By the 1930s, their ability to stimulate the central nervous system had made them very popular as pep and diet pills. Today they are mostly used to treat narcolepsy, attention deficit disorder in children and, rarely, depression.

Military commanders, football coaches and students have turned to amphetamines for similar reasons: They can keep you fighting long after your body would otherwise give in to sleep.

However, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency, serious potential side effects include psychotic behavior, depression, anxiety, fatigue, paranoia, aggression, violent behavior, confusion, insomnia, auditory hallucinations, mood disturbances and delusions. Such side effects long ago banished punch bowls full of Dexedrine from pre-game training tables in football clubhouses.

And those wonderfully accommodating university doctors, who distributed 30 "uppers" to even the most anorexic students for their exam-week "weight problem," are likewise long gone from the dispensaries.

But the Defense Department, which distributed millions of amphetamine tablets to troops during World War II, Vietnam and the Gulf War, soldiers on, insisting that they are not only harmless but beneficial.

In a news conference held in connection with Schmidt and Umbach's Article 32 hearing, Dr. Pete Demitry, an Air Force physician and a pilot, claimed that the "Air Force has used (Dexedrine) safely for 60 years" with "no known speed-related mishaps."

The need for speed, Demitry added "is a life-and-death issue for our military."

The Air Force claims amphetamine use is strictly voluntary. To substantiate this, Air Force spokespeople note that the "informed consent" form signed by pilots who receive Dexedrine mentions the voluntary nature of the program no fewer than seven times. However, the form also notes that the pilot can be grounded for exercising his right not to imbibe.

"To be grounded -- taken off flight status -- is very damaging to any pilot's career," said Maj. Glenn MacDonald, a retired Air Force officer and editor-in-chief of MilitaryCorruption.com. "The USAF was coercing its pilots to possibly become drug addicts and endangering their health.

"The Pentagon spin machine will try and tap dance around that, but it is a damning fact."

Retired Adm. Eugene Carroll, former vice president of the Center for Defense Information, also disputed Demitry's benign view of the drugs. Carroll took prescribed amphetamines for increased alertness during World War II carrier landings, but remains wary about their regular use.

"If the pilots are pushed so hard they have to take these drugs on a regular basis, they are going to get stressed out and have an unsafe result," Carroll said.

End of story

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From: http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,57434,00.html

PWNED.

I only said that it's not true that "meth is the reason we won WWII" as you were saying. I never said it wasn't been used - it's a known fact, and it's still being used. There's a huge difference between it being used and it being "the reason we won WWII", though. I've always thought it was the superiority of the US army :)

Your argument that humans are made to use opium because opium mimicks the behavior of natural endorphins, would also mean that humans are made to use alcohol, barbituarates, valium, cocaine, meth, nicotine, morphine, heroin, codein, LSD and weed. They all mimick natural endorphins. Furthermore, it would mean that humans are made to be poisoned by curare, and snake and spider bites and almost every poison out there: they all mimick natural endorphins.

Now you're catching on with how to live a happy, healthy life and not worry about breaking a hip because you're getting old ;)

Opiates have a but more though, they actually have two parts to the human brain just for them. LSD on the other hand, doesn't. Morphine, Codien, Heroin, are all a natural drug that can be gotten from one plant.... Well, Heroin takes two plants but for the most part, it's the same even without the second. It just wouldn't be "Original formula" as invented in Germany by William S in the 1800s. For the Bayer Aspirin company.

Ummm, the snake and spyder parts.... Humans have a part in the brain that creates poisons that kill you? Snake Venom works on different levels depending on the snake, some break down skin tissue and create necrosis, some go right for the heart. I didn't think that occured naturally. Or maybe I read your post wrong. I just woke up so it's possible I have, but care to explain how that would do that?

I know smoking snake Venom can do things to you.... Not that I'd do that, but I know people have. My arguement was actually people are made to use it because there are two whole parts in the brain that do nothing but be used with Opiates.

For the other, well, it could be argued with WW2, I mean, if the guys were to tired, would we still have won? Maybe, I'm not someone who was even around yet. My Grandfather was though, I have the Sword he got in WW2.

I was saying that your argument that "humans are made to use opium because they have a receptor in the brain that receives the opium-parts" doesn't stand. I countered that by saying that when you get poisoned (by curare for example), the same receptors get blocked by that poison. Does that mean that humans are made to be poisoned, like they are "made to use opium"?

Your brain consists of receptors with different shapes. Neurotransmitters with the correct sizes can "dock" in those receptors. What nicotine does, for example, is mimicking the shape of the ACh (acetylcholine, a natural neurotransmitter), allowing it do dock in the correct receptor. It's called an agonist, as opposed to an antagonist (curare, most snake venoms,...) where the drug blocks out ACh. Since ACh is vital to muscle action, you die...

Just because there's a receptor for opium, doesn't mean that opium is made to be used. Healthy people have their own opium-factory built-in (endorphins) :)
It is true that opium can be partly beneficial if your body doesn't produce enough endorphins, but for healthy people it's a bad idea to use them since they'll destroy the natural production of endorphins, which is exactly what makes you hooked.

I don't want to get in the middle of this because you guys obviously know more about drugs than I do...but...my earlier comments apply regardless...and

nature, god, Order, or whatever you choose to call it has designed man to utilize everything that exists within our grasp...the problem lies in the fact we often do not use things correctly...who knows if a 100 years from now we might discover that tobacco ( which , has already been discovered to be a very beneficial and healthy food additive if you extract the juices and pound the leaves into flour...which the government has suggested to be added to flour sent to third world countries to beef up their nutritional value ) is a great way to beat foot fungus...

everything is good in moderation...if...ahem...we're using it right in the first place ! :D

P.S. I smoke...so this is not a rub against smokers...sure we can light it and smoke it but we can light and smoke crabgrass too...your arguments about using a drug because we can and it affects us this way or that doesn't hold water as an argument...because we haven't exhausted all the other potential uses for them...it's a safe bet to say that if we are using something and we derive negative effects from it ...we are either using it incorrectly or failed in it's development! :)

Oh...and sorry jinxy but the news report got it wrong...it happened in Afghanistan not Iraq while our troops were in wargames and everyone knew we were there...the pilots ignored the order to confirm and ignored the order to stop...they were off-mission, they shouldn't have even been there...a sad thing to blame on drugs...most Canadians didn't want them to go to jail...but we expected more than a slap on the wrist.
nothing to do with you, jinxy...the news report got it wrong, not you !

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Oh...and sorry jinxy but the news report got it wrong...it happened in Afghanistan not Iraq while our troops were in wargames and everyone knew we were there...the pilots ignored the order to confirm and ignored the order to stop...they were off-mission, they shouldn't have even been there...a sad thing to blame on drugs...most Canadians didn't want them to go to jail...but we expected more than a slap on the wrist.
nothing to do with you, jinxy...the news report got it wrong, not you !

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I had not even seen that bit................................I just new for sure that drugs have been used to keep pilots awake in combat and the article was the first I came across that gave some backup. I didn't even read it through.

As for the Blue on Blueincedent you mention. It happens, Falklands, SAS on SBS, Royal Navy on My old mob..........Iraq 1, A10 on Brit armourd inf section and countless others.

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Originally posted here by Negative
I was saying that your argument that "humans are made to use opium because they have a receptor in the brain that receives the opium-parts" doesn't stand. I countered that by saying that when you get poisoned (by curare for example), the same receptors get blocked by that poison. Does that mean that humans are made to be poisoned, like they are "made to use opium"?

Your brain consists of receptors with different shapes. Neurotransmitters with the correct sizes can "dock" in those receptors. What nicotine does, for example, is mimicking the shape of the ACh (acetylcholine, a natural neurotransmitter), allowing it do dock in the correct receptor. It's called an agonist, as opposed to an antagonist (curare, most snake venoms,...) where the drug blocks out ACh. Since ACh is vital to muscle action, you die...

Just because there's a receptor for opium, doesn't mean that opium is made to be used. Healthy people have their own opium-factory built-in (endorphins) :)
It is true that opium can be partly beneficial if your body doesn't produce enough endorphins, but for healthy people it's a bad idea to use them since they'll destroy the natural production of endorphins, which is exactly what makes you hooked.

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OK, I'll give you your du (Pun), just because something is natural doesn't mean you SHOULD use it. But I think that I as a human being believing in God and living in a Country that says in God we trust, should be ABLE, without prison. and I have already said quite a few times that Opiates help me very much so to do things I usually can't. Like Work, School, stay calm and not kill the ****er who cut me off.... Things most people can do without.

For people who have never had Opiates:

When you have an orgasm your body releases an Opiate. Now, how good does an orgasm feel? It feels like Opium but lasts not even close to half as long as an Opiate can. So now you know how it feels.

I will admit too, that Opiates can feel different to other people. Some people get tired and fall asleep on them, some people, like me, get awake, and very alert and can concentrate MUCH better on them. and some people don't like them because they feel spaced out.

But that is a small population of people. There is the same small population who react to alcohol violently, and beat their wife and kids, so why isn't alcohol against the law too? Well, because 1, people did it anyway, 2, gangsters took over the market and killed lots of people, and 3 because the prices were set by the mob, people had to kill and steal to pay these high prices.

Just like what you have now with drugs. All drug related crimes would stop if they were legal. They wouldn't have to shoot people to pay the prices, because well, Opium and pot are both easy to grow, and gangs wouldn't be killing people over turf because they would no longer HAVE control of the market, and all around people wouldn't want to hurt anyone.

Negative, I have no clue if you've ever done any drugs, but anyone who has can tell you, Opiates take away your ability to think violently and your ability to want to hurt anyone. I've broken bones before in people for getting on my nerves. Now? I don't even think of doing that and actually feel bad I did.

as a great philosophical writer once said "There isn't a man alive who would hurt himself or others after using Opium". And you can't say Opiates hurt you where you'll become an idiot by using them. You can use it every day of your life and you still won't ever appear to be fried.

Albert E used them, you've already said a few things about that though, but to him they affected him in a way different from mine. Again, every drug affects people differently. I choose to use Opiates because they help me a lot. Again, I used to get failing grades all year round and got kicked out of school twice. I couldn't concentrate at all, and so I did bad.

after using Vicodin for a year I'm now a Straight A student with the occasional B. And I have career plans for my first time ever. I'm not saying everyone would do this if they started using Opiates, but I have and no one can argue with results.

I at first thought it was bullshit I was doing so well, so I performed a test. One class that was easy, I took no Vicodin, the other classes, I took between 1 and 4 pills a day.

The class that should have been easy for me, and I took no drugs, I got a D in it. I couldn't concentrate at all, and the material was so boring I couldn't read it. My ADD kicked my ass there.

The other class where I took 1 pill a day, I got a C in it. It still got boring though.

The class I took 4 a day for, I got an A, the class was never boring and I was not only very happy to be in class I was always prepaired, happy to do my homework and even studied because for once in my life I could actually concentrate enough to study.




You go YOUR whole life not being able to concentrate ever, and be in trouble for it because the teachers say you're just lazy and don't want to do it, and always being looked down upon by your family for it, and then one day hurt your back, and be given something that makes it seem like you CAN do it finally, and you show results by turning completely around, getting GOOD grades, actually caring about life again, not wanting to commit suicide anymore, and actually caring about what you'll be going to in 5 years instead of saying **** it, and then have people tell you what you're doing to get that way is wrong. How would YOU feel?

You're one of my friends here, you and Mel have seen me at good and bad times and always been great, so you I think understand me a bit more than most, but seriously, read the above paragraph and then honestly think I'm bad or ruining my life .

Like I said, I went my whole life being a **** up, and now I've found something that takes it away and has no bad side effects as long as I don't run out. I'm not wrong for doing it, God put that plant here for a reason, and no one is going to make me believe it's wrong.

Addiction means to me:

Knowing how it feels to REALLY want something, and ****ing get it.

Satisfaction is mine everyday, I get what I really want in a bottle, that has taught me money doesn't mean ****, don't be greedy, and be the best person you can be and don't ask for things you don't really need because what you really want comes in a bottle for 5 dollars a month.

Hmm, I'm not greedy, I'm doing great in school, I've got my dream job waiting for me when I graduate, and I won't ever **** anyone over because I have no cares about money and things like that. I want Vicodin, and my familly and friends and my computers I already have and my net connection. Oh and a house and car is good but that comes with getting a job.

I'm content with what I have an what I get thanks to a plant that God put here for everyone to use as we see fit (Genisis in the Bible), and there isn't a thing wrong with that.

Sure, I wouldn't say no to a Maclaren F1, but that's not because I think it's a luxury car that every rich person should have, I want it because it's a very high quality car with an engine inside that's a V12 made with love in Germany... Why is it almost anything high quality comes from Germany, my homeland? You're Belgium, I know you share a similar opinion. Lords of Acid ;)

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Originally posted here by Negative
Furthermore, it would mean that humans are made to be poisoned by curare, and snake and spider bites and almost every poison out there: they all mimick natural endorphins.

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Name this movie :)