OMG!! The Stars and Bars!!!

What happened to Freedom of Speech? I guess this is more along the lines of Freedom to Think Our Approved Thoughts.

Quote:

---

A Kentucky high school girl who wanted to wear a prom dress that incorporated the design of the Confederate flag was not even allowed to get out of her car much less actually go to the dance, reports Knight-Ridder newspapers.

Jacqueline Duty’s sequined gown, which she made herself, was deemed offensive by administrators at Russell High School in Lexington even before they saw it. They asked her not to wear it the night before the prom, but she had nothing else she did so anyway and was shut out of her senior prom.

Duty is now suing the school district in, saying it and its administrators violated her First Amendment right to free speech and her right to celebrate her heritage. She also is suing for defamation, false imprisonment and assault.

---

Full Story: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...n/10463460.htm

Quote:

---

She said she had worked on the dress' design for four years, adding that it had always been her dream to wear a Confederate-themed dress to her senior prom.

---

Who does she think she is Daisy Duke? Did she get dropped off in the General Lee by Bo and Luke?

Quote:

---

Her lawyer said Duty lost many scholarships because she was portrayed as a racist after the incident

---

Maybe she lost the scholarships because on the applications under dreams she wrote "wear a Confederate-themed dress to her senior prom"

Hey! Watch it. Daisy Duke looked mighty fine back in the day. ;)

Ok I'm going to deny your scholarship because your dream is to marry your gay lover. Would that be fair? Or perhaps it is because your dream is to wear dress covered in satanic verses.

Came out personal. Not meant that way.

Quote:

---

Hey! Watch it. Daisy Duke looked mighty fine back in the day.

---

We'll have to see how Jessica Simpson looks in Daisy's ..ahem.. outfits in the new movie.

Quote:

---

Came out personal. Not meant that way.

---

No problem. I'm a smart ass too. :D

I couldn't have worn a dress to my prom, it would have taken too long to shave my back. Sorry for the bad visual image.

Do you think it would have been a different result it she had a swastika on her dress?

There was a case in the news in Toronto last week where a store was selling t-shirts with "Boys are dumb. Hit them." They were trying to have the store charged under a hate crimes law.

Now that I've finished convulsing from the laughter, or maybe it's the horror, of the whole back shaving thingy..... :) .......... I think the swastika would have been allowed under free speech, but a cross would have been banned under separation of church and state.

As for the shirts, I saw a similar one from "Happy Bunny" with "Boys are yucky! Throw rocks at them! I find it very amusing.

Quote:

---

I think the swastika would have been allowed under free speech, but a cross would have been banned under separation of church and state.

---

That's wacky. I assume they combine church and state to give the students time off at Christmas?
Or do they call it Turkey and Football holiday? No wait, you guys had that last month.

Christmas is a term that is constantly attacked by the ACLU, anytime a Government agency is involved such as Schools. I guess it's because you can't spell Christmas without "Christ".

Anyways, I digress, the ACLU has been successfully waging a campaign to remove any mention of Christmas from Government Agencies. It is now referred to as "Holiday Break" instead of "Christmas Break" after each successful lawsuit. and "Christmas Trees" when they are even allowed are called "Holiday Trees." Sad but True.

I guess living in a land where there's so many rednecks kind of taints a person - down here seeing the stars and bars is quite common, and rarely addressed either publicly or privately. More often people here exhibiting said flag are written off as 'redneck idiots' or 'biker trash' or both. Quite frankly, I view the symbology behind the flag not so much racist - here's why:

Thesis: The American civil war wasn't so much about slavery as it was economics -

Supporting argument: The south's main source of revenue at the time was cotton, cheaply grown and yes, cheaply harvested by slaves. In their ruling that slavery should be abolished, the Union forced economic depression on the South. Rather than go willingly into poverty, the south chose to instead fight.

Ok, you can use the argument to say that it was to abolish slavery - from the Union's point of view it was, and simply based on that argument, I'm quite glad the Union won. Slavery in any form is an abhorration.

ON THE OTHER HAND....

Folks, we are nearly 150 years past the civil war. Several families can claim their ancestors once wore the bonds of slavery, and several can claim their ancestors once owned slaves...but

I never owned a slave, nor was one, nor did you ever own a slave, nor were you one.

It's a flag. Get over it. How many years did several of the southern states have the stars and bars as part of their state flag, to be uncontested by the SAME people who once stood as slaves in said state? Yet here we are, 150-odd years later making a case of it.

Gee. I'm sorry my ancestors killed and ate the pilgrims. Maybe I should apologize and cowtow over that as well? Maybe I should demand apology from all you European types for your ancestors migrating over here in the first place?

History is a good teaching tool. It's wonderful that we recognize the wrongs we committed so very long ago, and seek to avoid making them again in the future. I fail, however, to see where abolishing and censoring a piece of cloth will make any difference.

In as much as swastikas are concerned...
At one time, the swastika was revered in the pagan world as the 'cross of life,' and used in several of their holy ceremonies and sacrements. Now it's strictly a symbol of the Nazi regime, proudly displayed by skinheads and ignorant rednecks everywhere. Much as I'd like to see someone take a carving knife and bodily remove these swastika tattoos from their bearer's skin, I seriously doubt this will ever occur. On the other hand, with all the liberal animosity surrounding the stars and bars, one never knows - it might be legalized someday...

[edit] Corrected a couple of typos [/edit]

Quote:

---

Ok I'm going to deny your scholarship because your dream is to marry your gay lover. Would that be fair? Or perhaps it is because your dream is to wear dress covered in satanic verses.

---

Improper analogy fallacy. If this fellow who has his/her scholarship denied because s/he is a NAZI then that would be a proper analogy.

Quote:

---

Christmas is a term that is constantly attacked by the ACLU, anytime a Government agency is involved such as Schools. I guess it's because you can't spell Christmas without "Christ".

---

Or maybe because its the birth of a 2000 year old carpenter who was a non-violent resistance martyr against an Empire that fell 1550 years ago and since then his cult has aimlessly wandered throughout the world. :eek:

Quote:

---

I think the swastika would have been allowed under free speech, but a cross would have been banned under separation of church and state.

---

Actually the swastika is an ancient religious symbol, as well ;)

Quote:

---

Gee. I'm sorry my ancestors killed and ate the pilgrims

---

Bloody Hell Ice :
That's one tough part of Texas you live in :D

/me cackles with insane glee!

Do a bit of googling on the Caddo indians - 35 percent of my ancestry.

Quote:

---

In as much as swastikas are concerned...
At one time, the swastika was revered in the pagan world as the 'cross of life,' and used in several of their holy ceremonies and sacrements. Now it's strictly a symbol of the Nazi regime, proudly displayed by skinheads and ignorant rednecks everywhere.

---

The pagan-celtic symbol for life had the "hooks" or whatever you call it point the other way, though... Hitler knew perfectly well what he was doing when taking the cross of life and turning it around.

I was wondering if anyone would catch that - good call Negative, you're absolutely right.

Fox - here's a site that says it all - especially the last line..

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/nativ...ddocustoms.htm

The swastika is also based on an indian (as in India) symbol for good luck as well as the celtic symbol. I cant find the scource at the moment but will try to confirm it later.
I just googled it and here is a good luck.
Here is a second link that gives a more historical view swastika
If I remember rightly the civil war only offically ended about 7 years ago when one of the states, forget whichone, finally got rid of the last slave laws. The flag symbolise much more than slavery as has been said but I can understand the schools position. If it let the girl wear the dress instead of being sued by one student the school would now be getting sued by about five or six organisation.

Hi,

Quote:

---

I think the swastika is also based on an indian (as in India) symbol for good luck as well as the celtic symbol. I cant find the scource at the moment but will try to confirm it later.

---

Yes it's a hindu symbol of Good Luck ..........Hindus still Draw it on anynew thing they Purchase ( like Car, House etc) or on Big Festivels ...........they Draw it on their enterence of their House.

So do Sikhs, Bhuddists and Jains who consider Swastica as a religious Symbol of Good Luck.

Hindu's have been using it for Thousands of years .........Hitlers Tilted Swastica Symbol actually matches Hindu symbel more Hindu's also have this Slightly tilted Swastika ........which is drawn with a Temperary Red Paint ( Nazi Swastica is also Red)................But without the circle outside it .

I wonder what would the reaction be if a Hindu living in America Brought a new House and Drew a Big red Swastica on his Front Door :rolleyes:

--Good Luck--

The nazis swastika was black but either way I am sure our hindu friend would get a very interesting reaction from his neighbors.

Quote:

---

I couldn't have worn a dress to my prom, it would have taken too long to shave my back. Sorry for the bad visual image.

---

Man.... there are ppl eating here !!!!!!

argh!

Until the first post by BlackIce in this thread, it really seemed like a kiddy conversation....or more like the Blind leading the Blind...


Anyways, back to the post at hand...WTF is wrong with these people...Only shows the ignorance of people who take the sight of the confederate flag as a racist symbol. Maybe they should shut down all those stores in the south who sell Confederate flags, mugs, shirts, pants....and anything else u can think of.

Quote:

---

... Several families can claim their ancestors once wore the bonds of slavery, and several can claim their ancestors once owned slaves...

---

The thing that gets me is that we all can say that, not just African-Americans. Jews were slaves of the ancient Egyptians. And every other race on this earth had ancestors as slaves at one time but you do not see me demanding retributions because an African owned my ancestor.

About the flag, its a symbol from the confederate army. It was a battleflag, nothing more. Men died under that flag:they died believing in their 'country'. People take this flag for more than it was meant for.

Flags of a country, past or present, should not be worn on a person. Just my belief. Since I'm a Northerner I do not understand why these people want to display such a flag besides for a historicial usage. Thinking about it, it seems as thought they just use it to incite hatred in people. What happened to that girl was going a little too overboard.

Kurt,

In some people's mind: Confederate Flag = Rebel and Rebel = Cool :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by Cybr1d
Kurt,

In some people's mind: Confederate Flag = Rebel and Rebel = Cool :)

---

Or some people say "Pride, not prejudice"

Earlier in this thread we talked about an offensive symbol, such as a swastika, and if it would be allowed at a school dane. Anyways I guess not, because if Santa gets banned from a school dance, then there is no way a school administrator would allow a swastika, or any other religious or potentially offensive symbol into a dance environment.

As for Pride..... Well I'm not allowed to have "Pride in my heritage" or even attempt to "get in touch with my ancestors" without being branded as a racist.

Quote:

---

A New Hampshire junior high school student who tried to go to a school dance in a Santa suit was told he was not welcome because the dance was a “holiday” dance and not a “Christmas” dance, reports the Hampton Union.

Bryan Lafond was told by Principal Fred Muscara that he was not welcome at the Hampton Academy Junior High School dance because of concerns about the religious undertones of his costume.

"It was a holiday party," Muscara said. "It was not a Christmas party. There is a separation of church and state. We have a lot of students that go to Hampton Academy Junior High that have different religions. We have to be sensitive to that."

---

Full Story: http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/h...news/55149.htm

Yet again stupidity at its finest. See my original post.
For more stupidity, see the commercial about 'Christmahanakwanzakaa'...

Quote:

---

ignorant rednecks everywhere

---

Somebody mention me?
:cool:

Im proud to live in Texas and be part of the Brothers of the Confederates... the Civil War happened a long time ago. yes, i live in the south and no i dont like slavery. but i dont think that they should have banned her from wearing that dress. I think they overreacted.

Overduespy
Of all the news items yours made me laught the most or it would have if it wasnt so sad. Doesnt the head know that the red and white santa siut has about as much to do with religion as a pickled onion. That view of santa clause is one of the most successfull advertising campaignes ever. Anyone wearing one is advertising for Coca Cola.

Just something to add

The idea of the "Separation of Chruch and State" is a myth. No where in the first amendment does it state this

Quote:

---

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

---

So while the government cannot establish an official religion (reason behind this is that the Church of England had tax levying rights in the country, so you paid your taxes to the government, then your tithe to the Church, if you were a member or not) there are no restrictions in how the government can celebrate said holidays.

The term 'Church and State' comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. He wanted to make clear to this group of folks that it "was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion"

Now the problem I have with all of this, whether these people are stupid or not, is that they use the Constitution as if it is a untouchable reason to restrict people (Albeit stupid people) from doing something that they feel will make waves. Why not just say that its school policy? Don't make up some crap about no Christmas in school, which means no Santa Claus, because it is a violation of the separation of church and state.

Also, the part of the 1st amendment folks tend to overlook: "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" If someone wanted to go dressed as Jesus, and someone prevented, or prohibited them from exercising that free right, then the prohibitor is in violation of the 1st amendment.

Anyway that was too long...

As far as Confederate pride goes...they had the best songs...without question!

Santa, has nothing to do with religion.

The swastika is not buddhist, I've read and studied buddhism...if the article is right, and I don't believe everything I read, more than likely it was probably introduced to buddhism through area culturalization.

There has never been a separation of church and state...virtually every person ever elected has been elected on a religious platform( e.g. Bush's often references to god and being born again) or by catering to the religious right.


people these days are far too sensitive...I say let her wear the dress, fly the flag, draw swastikas all over her body, as long as she's not burning houses or throwing rocks with notes through people's windows who cares...political correctness has reached the level of insanity.

Quote:

---

The swastika is not buddhist, I've read and studied buddhism

---

IIRC, the Swastika was a hindu symbol that got perverted by Hitler.

Lastly, I thought there was freedom of expression in the US or was I mistaken on that? Personally, I thought the dress was quite nice and not offensive.

Freedom of expression only applies if you agree with the left. Otherwise they sue.

the confederate flag is incredibly offensive to alot of people. The idea is to keep the peace.

However, i believe she "should" be able to wear it, but if i were an administrator, i would have trouble allowing it. Think about what would happen if it angered several people, and a riot or some **** ensued.. that would be bad...

For another, wtf would they have their prom so early.. weird.

Quote:

---

the confederate flag is incredibly offensive to alot of people.

---

So is the swastika, I find your signature so offensive I want to scream "what ****ing planet are you from?" sometimes. But hey I understand your desire to make a statement, should I sue? :D

Thank-you, RoadClosed ! :D

That's one of the best gut delivered statements I've seen so far...and I quote..."what ****ing planet are you from?" simple and direct...very good !!!

no offense er0k...but you gotta love brute honesty...and you're signature is a little loud. I like it though...the simplicity of it. :D

Speaking of the swastika.... ....What about England's prince Harry and his Nazi costume? Personally wearing it, just like wearing the Confederate Flag, may be politically stupid; but he should have the right to wear it to a costume party.....Sheeezh! Anyways from the pictures he looks pretty loaded. :D SHRUG

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6819206/