Some thoughts for OBL Re: The Tidal Wave

What occurred in South Asia was, to believers of supreme beings, an act of god. This is clear since we have credible historical evidence proving that Tsunami's manifested themselves many hundreds of years prior to man's ability to fabricate one, (the nuclear era).

Since it is an act of god it is clearly an act of Allah since, per your belief, Allah is the one true god. It is therefore inconceivable that it was an act of a Judeo-Christian god.

Of all the places in the world Allah could have chosen he chose to have it happen in a region where it would cause the most death and destruction to his own believers. He could have chosen the US Pacific coast for example.... But he didn't.

An act of such massive destructive force can only be attributed to an angry god. One that is disapproving of something. Since it was directed specifically at his own followers it is reasonable to assume that his anger is pointed at those followers. Even if you were to argue that this was a "natural event" Allah could have stopped it but chose not to even though it targeted his followers at a time in history where such an event might be seen as a sign of anger.

Mr. Bin Laden: I believe you might need a quick chat with your god, I think he might be trying to tell you and your followers something..... Think of it as a big PM.... You need to respond, Allah may have asked for a read receipt!

I haven't touched this theory w/ a 10 ft pole. However, it's crossed my mind (think Sodom and Gomorrah) that this part of the world is also the part of the world where the majority of sex slavery occurs. White women, little children of both genders, you name it, you can get it there. Not only get it there, but actually book a tour vacation that caters to that particular type of traveller.

Now, I'm not a particularly religious person, my beliefs have undergone radical changes in the last few years, and I don't know what I believe, if anything, anymore. But there is a questionable historical record of this happening before to a place that offended God terribly.

All I know is that if they start calling for a lot of rain, I'm lookin' for a guy named Noah, and getting on his boat.

Tiger Shark: Don't want to sound like an English teacher here <which I'm not> but why don't you capitilize God when you talk about the Judeo-Christian God?!? Not worth the capital letter?

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It is therefore inconceivable that it was an act of a Judeo-Christian god.

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Jews and Christians worship the same God except Jews don't believe in Jesus( thus not reading the New Testament). It could have been done by God (the Judeo-Christian God, my God!). It could be one of His signs that the end is coming. I do believe that this is on too much of a Biblical proportion to be blown off as a 'normal' natural disaster.

God, in my belief, has already made us suffer our beginning due here in America. Now he is paying a visit to the Middle East.

kurt

I think Hinduism is the major one in Sri Lanka. Yeah, that was a great number of children, some not able to comprehend who Allah is. They have to be thinking about how many Muslims and children of Muslims were killed. But then again that fanatic psycho sheep might say "praise to Allah for he has punished those who harbor non Muslims in beachside resorts".

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All I know is that if they start calling for a lot of rain, I'm looking' for a guy named Noah, and getting on his boat.

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That boat aKa the Arc I believe is on Mt. Ararat in Turkey.

“On June 17, 1949, a United States Air Force plane flew a then-classified aerial photographic mission over Mt. Ararat. The pilot, to his surprise, recorded two images of the Ararat Anomaly — a linear, oddly symmetrical shape approximately 600 feet in length, with roughly 90 feet of that length protruding clearly from out of the snow and ice.

In 1957, Turkish air force pilots spotted a boat-shaped formation in Agri province. The government did not pursue the sighting, however. The entire area, including Mount Ararat, was off limits to foreigners because of Soviet complaints that explorers were U.S. spies.”

I think they sent a team recently to obtain carbon dating on it.

I *SO* hate disagreeing with you Tiger Shark, but this hits at a core belief of mine:

Anytime someone says 'It was God's will' it's suspect data.

If we go by your logic, would not 4 hurricaines striking Florida inside a period of 1 month count as a similar *monster IM* from God about something?

just my 2 cents.

[edit] fixed typos. [/edit]

Hi,

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Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
Of all the places in the world Allah could have chosen he chose to have it happen in a region where it would cause the most death and destruction to his own believers.

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Now i fail to understand how you have connected this to a message form Allah to his followers.............This didn't happen in Middle-East ...........it's South Asia..

IF you look at the 12 Countries Affected

- India : Hindu 81.3%, Muslim 12%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other groups including Buddhist, Jain, Parsi 2.5%

-Sri Lanka : Buddhist 70%, Hindu 15%, Christian 8%, Muslim 7%

-Thailand: Buddhism 95%, Muslim 3.8%, Christianity 0.5%, Hinduism 0.1%, other 0.6%

-Burma: Buddhist 89%, Christian 4% (Baptist 3%, Roman Catholic 1%), Muslim 4%, animist 1%, other 2%



-Bangladesh: Muslim 83%, Hindu 16%, other 1%

-Indonesia: Muslim 88%, Protestant 5%, Roman Catholic 3%, Hindu 2%, Buddhist 1%, other 1%

-Somalia: Sunni Muslim

-Maldives: Sunni Muslim

-Malaysia: Muslim, Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu, Christian, Sikh



-Tanzania: Christian 30%, Muslim 35%, indigenous beliefs 35%

-Seychelles: Roman Catholic 86.6%, Anglican 6.8%, other Christian 2.5%, other 4.1%

-Kenya: Protestant 45%, Roman Catholic 33%, indigenous beliefs 10%, Muslim 10%, other 2%

Now how Does it point to a particular religion :rolleyes: .

Using natural Distater to point out that God might be Angry with a particular religin is a very Flawed Logic i my View .......it can be used against anyone.............who knows who's turn it might be next .

When nature is at it's Fury it dosen't ask for your religion or cast or Creed or Sex..........No matter who you are you better take cover.

...........and by the way Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God :o .

--Good Luck--

They worship the same god but in VERY different context. Even though places listed show Muslim or Islam as not the major religion, in a few of those places they have tremendous political power. At any rate there are regions of very strong Muslim influence. In fact the worst hit countries are those listed in Sword's post with Muslim populations in the 85 percentile. According to Aljazeera the death toll in Indonesia ALONE could reach 80,000.

Tiger made a good point with the reality of biblical belief and modern political strife. It was directed at Osama who leads dolts to kill themselves in the name of God (with a capital G) using the "sins" of America as ammunition to induce hate. Enough hate to indoctrinate young men and women into believing they will get virgins and celestial pleasures if they kill themselves while destroying the enemies of Allah, his "true" prophet and the holy lands of old.

Then a major disaster strikes that literally destroys entire regions populated by large segments of Muslim communities. While cruel on one level, I see the satire I think Tiger was subscribing too. There hasn’t been a disaster like this that I can remember. Perhaps it is indeed biblical in a sense of religious belief. Entire villages are GONE. I heard one British reporter who flew over an island populated by an estimated 70,000 people. They saw no humans on it, not even a bird! Not to mention that earthquakes of this size are very rare.

On the flip side one could argue that all the old tales of biblical destruction were just natural disasters and NOTHING more. That in fact God has never intervened in the daily struggle of humans.

PS

Since I keep seeing Tidal waves in the news…Tidal waves are actually caused by extreme changes in ocean tides not earthquakes. That’s a Tsunami. While on the subject there are no Hurricanes in the Pacific. They are Typhoons and are split by the east versus the western hemisphere and the International Date Line. There I feel better.

Kurt: I'm an athiest... Since a supreme being does not exist as far as I am concerned, referring to one with a proper noun would be illogical doncha think?.....

I also understand fully the relationship between the Jews and the Christians and that fact they share the same god.... However, it seems you took the way I worded it too literally.... No problem...

Imitation: Sri Lanka was the first to bring in the estimates, Indonesia is much more spread out with limited communications.... What's Indonesia's total now? Huge.... And it's mostly Muslim.

Blackice: I'm an athiest.... Thus there is no data regarding any supreme being that is valid.... You're not disagreeing with me.... just what I wrote here as something for the religious to think about...

As to the 4 hurricanes..... What harm did they do? Were there 20 people killed? I don't know, but it wasn't much more... Face it... Florida got 4 amazing "blow jobs" in a month or so... More than most married men get in a lifetime of marriage.... ;)

Swordfish:

Take a look at the totals per country you quote the figures for, then run the math and tell me about how many muslims have died.... I'll guess... More than 70% of all the dead are muslim.... Is it a sign from Allah?

Road:

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While cruel on one level, I see the satire I think Tiger was subscribing too.

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Bingo.... Someone here knows me..... While satire wasn't exactly the intent here I do believe that if you are silly enough to commit atrocities in the name of your supreme being then you should probably look carefully at the "signs" your clearly barbaric supreme being might be trying to send you.... After all, if you believe that beheading a Christian, Jew or whatever is condoned by your particular flavor of supreme being should you not also accept the fact that you might be pissing him off and the only way he can "express" himself, (since a provable manifestation is clearly out of the question.... He'd have to get out of that sweatsuit and comb the old hair), is to wipe out a 100,000 or so to make his message clear.

No... I didn't intend this to be entirely serious, and I didn't intend to use the deaths of all those poeple as a "fun" thing.... My brother lives in Indonesia and there was a period where myself and my family had no contact.... Luckily, he lives in an area that was almost completely unaffected..... But, for someone who believes in a supreme being they have to consider the three possibilities:-

1. Your supreme being _caused_ the disaster. (So much for your benevolent god).
2. Your supreme being knew of the impending disaster and allowed it to happen, (So much for your benevolent god).
3. Your supreme being didn't know it was going to happen, (So much for omnipotence).

As a believer you can rationalize that all you like, but you don't change the fact that your supreme being is either not benevolent or not omnipotent. There is no excuse, not even for a supreme being, for the mass extermination of what will end up as more than 150,000 people... Maybe 200,000.....

I'd love to hear a rational explaination as to how a supreme being would allow this to occur.... (The word "rational" is very important in that statement and should be considered _before_ you chose to reply).

As a citizen of the state of Florida, I feel I have to respond to the statements about Florida. No doubt, it was a tragedy. Many people lost their homes, their businesses, and their personal belongings. However, we live in a state where we know the risk of hurricanes. We live in an area where it was an unusual year, but not totally out of the blue unheard of. It has happened before, though it was over 100 years ago. The death toll, out of all 4 hurricanes in Florida, was maybe 100. It in no way compares to the loss of life in Southeast Asia.

However, I do firmly believe it was a warning from some higher being...we voted for Bush in 2000, we voted Jeb Bush Governor in 1998 and again in 2002, and we voted for Bush again in 2004. It's a damn good job he's not running again in 2008, or there's a good chance we'd become part of Cuba next time. :p

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Kurt: I'm an athiest... Since a supreme being does not exist as far as I am concerned, referring to one with a proper noun would be illogical doncha think?.....

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Okay, your an athiest. Really, you don't have to explain it twice: I think |3lack|ce got the hint also ;)

Wording is everything. Its one thing to not worry about it when we are talking about security, or that new joke that someone found but religion tends to be a different spiel! You see, wording is the only thing one has to go on within BBSs since we can not hear or see each other.

I was merely asking you a question to see which side of the argument you are standing on, nothing more. So forgive me for my short comings when it comes to words, since it always seems as though I always wind up confusing or angering someone.

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I'd love to hear a rational explaination as to how a supreme being would allow this to occur.... (The word "rational" is very important in that statement and should be considered _before_ you chose to reply).

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Should one even attempt? It seems as though (yes with the wording again!!) you already have 'the' answer in your head that you want to hear.

I will end my useless words as they are and not go any further.

Maybe someone else would like to explain this to our friend here....

*no harm meant

kurt

Hey Tiger~

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Kurt: I'm an athiest... Since a supreme being does not exist as far as I am concerned, referring to one with a proper noun would be illogical doncha think?.....

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I will pull you on that one.............just because you do not believe does not affect "proper noun" status.................might I refer you to "Santa Claus" and the "Tooth Fairy"............"Shangri La" and so on. Roman, Greek and Indian deities are also capitalised because they are proper NAMES?

It is nothing to do with religious beliefs; more the structure of the language you are using. As an example, look at capitalisation in the German language.....................it is somewhat different from English.

Kurt~ (my old Korvetten Kapitan friend)...............hold on a minute or two whilst I go down the harbour and start the "Schnellboot's" motors..............

:D

Nihil, Ah Shangri La. Who wouldn't want to find such a place of balance and tranquility. It's the fact you have to stay that breaks the dream. (need to dig up that old book).

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I do firmly believe it was a warning from some higher being...we voted for Bush in 2000, we voted Jeb Bush Governor in 1998 and again in 2002, and we voted for Bush again in 2004

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Deb you do realize that you are saying a "God" would punish Florida because people elected him and his brother in succession. BUT they (the Bush family) are quilty of following his written word as handed down. Doesn't jive. :) Perhaps you were refering to the supreme being who desires the removal of God from his existence in the "Heaven" Dimension?

Perhaps the warning was to stop building Wal Marts that destroy family business' to save a dollar on junk from China?

Tiger, the only thing I could think of to describe the post was "satire"

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Kurt~ (my old Korvetten Kapitan friend)...............hold on a minute or two whilst I go down the harbour and start the "Schnellboot's" motors..............

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What are you trying to do here? lol jk...

Jawohl, mein Herr. Ich komme! ;)

In Xanadu did Khublai Khan a stately pleasure dome decree...

Point to Xanadu on a map please, I'm an American. I still capitalized it simply because it's the name of a place, ergo a proper noun. God, whether we believe in him or not, should also be so capitalized.

Back on topic though - TS, I re-read your post about 10 minutes after responding and saw the satire of your words. I agree with you that those who believe they can interpret God's will should indeed look to the 'signs' found everywhere. It's a sad state of existance, but I guess they think it's a happy one, and I won't be one to disillusion a person who's happily ignorant.

Maybe if I'd taken the blue pill way back when I'd be happily stupid too.

We diverge in our thinking simply in our system of faith - you, having none, and I, believing that something, somewhere put us here - that same referent I call God. Moreso, I follow the Christian faith, but subscribe to no specific religion therein - Jesus is my messiah, but he didn't say to me, "Go ye and be Baptist. " or "Go ye and be Catholic, for the Pope stands in my stead in my absence." Hence I go around (when I've nothing better to do on my Sunday mornings) to various churches for a visit here and there. I tend to find myself laughing at the words of certain preachers and the doctrines of all. Why is it man likes so much to disallow things for others? It is evident in our legislature, our churches and their doctrines, even in our parenting. "You can't do that because it's bad for you, will kill you, or (my personal favorite to laugh about) it's 'sinful'." seems to be the battle cry of humanity these days. What happened to personal freedom?

/me tips his hat to Gore on this next one.

Who really cares if someone wants to put something into their own body, be it harmful or otherwise? It's their body, not ours. Why do we legislate it?

And now we're back to the "I want to walk through the park reading Playboy magazine and wearing nothing but green jell-o." argument, so I'll stop.

Nihil:

I referred to the "Judeo-Christian god". In that context the non-capitalization is absolutely appropriate just as saying "Allah is the god of the Muslims". The word god is not a proper noun and the Judeo-Christian god's name is actually Yahweh. Had I referred to him by name then I would have capitalized it as I did with the name Allah.

Kurt:

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I always wind up confusing or angering someone.

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You didn't confuse nor anger me... In fact, you have read enough of my religious "meanderings" to know that religion and the discussion of it never makes me angry. Anger would be a pointless emotion since, in my mind, there is nothing to be angry about.... I'm not one of the pathetic "athiests" who are trying to remove all reference to gods and religion from this country. I actually support it fully. If you, (not you personally), want to put the 10 commandmants on every street corner I have no problem with that whatsoever. If that's what it takes to give the unwashed masses a decent moral code I'm all for it.....

Blackice: The word god is a generic word for a supreme being. Since you state that you are of the Christian, (note the capitalization of that), persuasion then you should refer to him as Yahweh, in which case capitalization is entirely appropriate.... The problem with referring to him by his proper name for Christians though is that it would recognize Judaism as it's root religion and that is bad because it was, (per the scriptures), the Jews who killed the son of your god. I personally think it was as much the Romans as the Jews but that's a whole other discussion......

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Maybe if I'd taken the blue pill way back when I'd be happily stupid too.

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Errrr.... I wasn't supposed to take the blue one?????? Poopie doop.... I screwed the pooch again... ;)

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Who really cares if someone wants to put something into their own body, be it harmful or otherwise? It's their body, not ours. Why do we legislate it?

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For the same reason we try to legislate hormones in minors.... :rolleyes: Not that I'm a peadophile, (though I am very appreciative when my sweetie wears her schoolgirl outfit and even more so that she can still carry the illusion off bearing in mind she has a couple of years on me.... ), it's really pretty silly if you think about it... I have yet to see a hormone that can read anything let alone a legal text......

For future reference:- The jello flat refuses to stick on warm days and you look really silly when it does stick, (cold days), with that little turtle between your legs..... LOL

Hmmm

|3lack|ce

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The poem starts in a part of China called Xanadu, where the great Khan, Kubla, decides to set up a pleasure dome. But the images seem to be a blend of suggestions from poets and travel writers describing many other scenes.

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Try what was formerly called Mongolia?

EDIT: Some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanadu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kublai_Khan

But remember that Samuel Taylor Coleridge was suffering from dysentery and had taken two grains of tincture of opium (these days you use kaolin and morphine :) )

Tiger~

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"Judeo-Christian god"

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That should be "Judeo-Christian God" because "Judeo Christian" is an adjectival pronoun refering to a specific, and singular god. It becomes a proper noun through inference/inheritance.

Happy New Year
:)

Nihil - just had to add in the 'someone point to it' as a bad reference to another thread.. Mongolia...mmm. Good steak there I bet. Too bad Coleridge's dream was interrupted at such an inopportune moment.

TS - You're using too much water in your jell-o if it won't stick - try using the 'jigglers' recipe...that stuff sticks to anything. Amusingly enough, I watched a show on History channel just a couple of nights back about drugs in American history, and how they came to be legislated. It all boiled down at first to a prejudice (on opium), then later a health concern since so many folks were addicted to the morphine-laced snake oil they'd been purchasing. Curiously though, it seems it's all about the money these days and the revenue that our Government would lose from all that money and property seized during drug raids.

[edit] BTW TS, you count among the 'red pill-ers' of this world, having awakened to the realization that religious bliss is not everything. I'm kinda sad to see you've gone exactly in the opposite direction, but to each his own. [/edit]

BlackIce:

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I'm kinda sad to see you've gone exactly in the opposite direction, but to each his own.

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It's ok Black.... I have a perfectly viable and socieltally acceptable moral code of my own that somewhat mirrors the Judeo-Christian model.... It just didn't need some poor chap to be humping stone tablets around.... ;) The social/moral code is perfectly acceptable to me.... I just don't feel the need to have them come from a supreme being. I have sufficient faith in the intelligence of man to be able to come up with 10 simple rules on our own.... ;)

BTW just to be a (playfull) jerk Kurt it is GOD not God. Check your bible brother. :p

Or If your jewish it would he G*D because to them it is sacriligeous to even write it out fully. Im not exactly clear on why that is but to each his own and judge not lest ye be judged and all

YHWH... that's what was in there... yahweh... yehowah... yehwah... whatever :)

Actualy neg its supposed to be unpronouncable. they left out the vouls for that very reason. That and the whole sacralige thingy