Some pictures are worth more than 1,000 words
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Great picts MsMittens...hope you don't mind if I post them at my other forums...a couple of them have members over there...or on their way.
By all means forward the link. If you notice on the bottom, they encourage it.
....amen.
Thanks MsM. Linking them on another forum. Very very powerful.
Yeah, it shows that the people who signed up to kill people for a reason they don't know can still have a heart.
Wow, I helped destroy the culture of the iraq's because i felt threatened by a few of their insurgents, so i blew this **** out of the whole country. cause they had oil, i mean nukes. Yeah.. real big ****ing threat.
I'm sorry but i hate these ****ing emails, i dont care what family members you have in the military, they don't know why they are fighting, and the only reason they signed up is either because they didn't want to get an actual job, or because they think they know.
I'm seriously offended Erok. I joined because I wanted to get drunk in foreign countries and chase their women, and to help protect the country in which I live, and to maybe learn a few things along the way. My eldest son joined so he could learn to be an airplane mechanic, and get drunk in foreign places as well, and have cash for college when he got out.Quote:
I'm sorry but i hate these ****ing emails, i dont care what family members you have in the military, they don't know why they are fighting, and the only reason they signed up is either because they didn't want to get an actual job, or because they think they know.
Quite frankly and in all seriousness, does it really matter WHY anyone joins?
Understand this, you bleeding-heart liberal you, A country which does not fight wars loses wars. If you value your right to express your opinion, you might want to consider that there's been countless number of good young men die for your right to do so, so QUIT DISSING VETS YOU IGNORANT *******! Got it? Good.
Black, first of all, I'm a little offended. I'm liberal. And I think what Erok just posted is a load of bullshit. Please don't lump us all together. I never forget the reason I have the ability to be a liberal is because of those men and women in those photos. It's not hard to separate the soldier from the cause. I support the soldier 100%. I don't support the cause. It's simple.
Both of my husbands were Marines. Erok, you don't have the balls or the backbone to back up what you mouth off about so often. These men and women do.
There's an old saying "Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
In your case, it's your keyboard, not your mouth, but it still holds true. You're an idiot, and you're a child, and you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Erok.. I'm going to get on your back too..... You probably shouldn't be too surprised......
You really need to remember that _every_ freedom you have came out of the blood of others. What you, and you are not unique in your generation, don't understand is that without the "willing" your way of life will disappear more quickly than it took you to grow up enough to understand your freedoms.
The poeple that do join up and do the job so many of their peers can't and won't do deserve a lot more respect than you are capable of giving. Likewise, the people who decide that they go somewhere make those decisions with a heavy heart knowing that they will be sending the best their country has to offer into harms way.
Of all the _stupid_ comments you have ever made this one takes the biscuit..... Did you ever have a job other than a paper round????? Join up, try it.... learn what it means to work 24/7/365.... There is no other job in the world that expects so much yet gives so little... (wrongly in my eyes).... I did ten years in the military, (HALF your life or more)... and you tell me it's because I didn't want "an actual job"???? Ever been 72 hours without sleep, (without the benefit of drugs), marching 30 miles with 120+ pounds of gear on your back at the same time as managing a radio net for 30 different callsigns after spending 3 hours at low level on a C-130 Hercules, (puking like a baby on bad formula), and then jumping out of it before it lands..... All in temperatures that rise above freezing during the day so you get soaked and then go sufficiently below freezing at night so that your clothing freezes around you while you do one hour on, one hour off shifts of sleep and sentry duty? Didn't think so.... I did and I'm sure several other's here did similar.... I have what you consider an "actual job" right now.... Funnily enough it is a **** load easier than my time in the military.... The only time I get up at 3:00am now is because I can't sleep.......Quote:
the only reason they signed up is either because they didn't want to get an actual job, or because they think they know.
Erok, if you _ever_ get a "actual" job come back and tell the rest of us about it.... We will all laugh in your face when you whine about that 16 hour day you did in that nicely heated or air conditioned office....
Until you have "been there", in the boots of a fighting man, (or woman nowadays), you really don't have the slightest clue about what you are talking about. The people who have the intestinal fortitude you clearly lack are as human as you are.... The difference is that they would never, _ever_ show the disrespect to you that you just showed to them.....
Right on Tiger. Partasinship shouldn't get in the way of supporting people who risking their lives for his country (whether you agree with the war or not). Ms Mittens : Thanks for posting this. It is sad that this will never be in the news.
Sorry to you Deb - it was near 3am and he'd touched a nerve. I honestly don't lump all liberals into that very same category, in fact, I embrace most of them so you never hear me call the 'L' word until I'm dealing with one of the ignorant extreme. I meant no offense to anyone other than the individual at whom that post was directed.Quote:
Black, first of all, I'm a little offended.
Er0k's comments only give strength to the argument made by Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers (the book, not the cheezy movie). Only those who have the intestinal fortitude and social responsibility to have served honorably in some fashion should have full enfranchisement.
I just hope he gets a clue before he reproduces.
Amen.......Quote:
Only those who have the intestinal fortitude and social responsibility to have served honorably in some fashion should have full enfranchisement.
I wanted to reply to this post yesterday when Ms M first posted as I pray and hope those men and women over there come home soon...safe and sound....to thier families
I do agree with debwalin about the *cause*
Cause I do not believe they should be there in the first place....
I cannot image being in their shoes....or the Iraqis shoes for that matter
cause if some one came here and destroyed my country, killed my family, friends etc
I would be as pissed :eek:
just my .02 cdn
MLF
Black, as long as you understand we're not all the same :D
Everyone has there own opinion. er0k just might have an opoinion that no one agrees with. My opinion is that as a 17 year old senior in High School with no one in the service, i still have great respect for these men and women. I do not have that kind of guts to go into the service. But if there was a draft damn straight i would go over there. But now to get back on subject, your right those are pictures that will never make the news. It might make it in the next presidential election to show what is happening in the war. Thx MsMittens for those pics, they are an eye opener.
I think its grossly unjustifed to assume that people join the armed forces with the soul intention of killing others, sure i bet theres some nuts, but they probably wont make it far before there intentions are unmined by the commitment required.
Of all the the people I know who have served none of them are blood thristy killers with a dislike of what you deem the real world, I dont think you understand the hardship these men and women put up with to keep nations such as my own free, and help other nations freedom. Can you truely imagine how hard it must be to be away from your family for 3months at a time wiht a 100 charecter limit of a weekly message? I think I would find it hard to not see my loved ones for so long like this, yet people do it.
Once Ive finished Uni, and Travelled a bit, Im contemplating joining up, not becuase thats what all my relatives have done or becuase ive got a desire to kill others (you *****ing d1ckhead), but because I see it as a damn sight more meaningful that sitting rotting away behind a computer in a office all day writing code that at the end of it all is only useful providing we're a free nation.
The people I know from the forces are some of the most knowledgable and capable people i know, they dont panic and help everyone they see, they have true compassion for life and others.
I was gonna say goodbye to you in addicts, and that you've provided me with some knowledge over the years which i was grateful for at the time, but ***** that,
i2c
ps - coincidence really that i've just typed almost the same amount of charecters that some servicemen get in there whole patrol (although my charecter limit came from the 70's so its likely with the advent of communications its increased, but still time is irrelevant in this argument)
My buddy sets up secure communication channels and supports guys like those who guard school kids walking to school. Although his job is easier now that it has sunk in that girls are "now" allowed in school and the people around that street are no longer putting up with violence; but I have already posted that a few times here.
So here is a twist... he is infinitely smarter than me. He isn't some dumb ass like the media wants the world to believe he is. And there are many like him. He was hacking Linux when I couldn't figure out how to compile my first kernel and there was only one flavor and no documentation. It's easy to say that those who don't share your point of view are stupid idiots. Really easy - let me demonstrate: "You stupid idiot". I am not saying that to anyone but you see how easy that is? And believe it or not, people are actually of a mind that to them.. There actions are not the folly of armchair politicians and philosophers with meager knowledge of world history and sociology.
But there are those who don’t want to be there, they are the ones who walked into a blind alley. They are the ones outraged when someone posts a picture of a soldier petting a cat and being a human. And drool at scenes of violence that support their cause.
rapier57: you seemed to miss the point of that book, it was a satire, he was no more advocating a society where one has to serve in he military to have the right ot vote then 1984 was advocating a society where your life was controlled by big brother.
Look sure some of our guys on the ground are trying to win the harts and minds of the Iraq’s but when policy from higher up undermines them it dose no good. We seem to have forgotten the lessons from Vietnam, just because the kid lets you teach him soccer or takes candy from you doesn’t mean he wont blow you up tomorrow.
Lets not also go painting the military as saints....my time around them showed me there where plenty of closed minded morons, and a large number of people who did in fact sign up to get a chance to go kill some towel heads(ok they used more vulgar slurs). So while you get some with a humanitarian bent, there are enough bad apples to call into question which group is the minority opinion.
BBallad.... Hanging around with grunts and saying you know them is equivalent to being a butler and telling people you live in a big mansion..... It sounds good but it's rubbish.... Join up, spend five years on the job then come and tell me how awful they are..... I was there ten years... There were people I didn't like but that doesn't make them bad.....
Ahh.. So 65,000 of the soldiers in Iraq are bad..... Ahh.... What fun it must be to be so terminally jaded..... :rolleyes:Quote:
there are enough bad apples to call into question which group is the minority opinion.
Ok, now that we're entirely through trashing Erok, here's a bit on thread topic:
I like the photos, and I'm very glad to see them. They show that the 'big bad soldiers' of the US actually have hearts. Folks tend to think our servicemen are inhumane at times, because they do their jobs so effectively. This proves otherwise. We aren't (nor weren't) all the 'go out, get trashed, womanize, and kill things' military.
I wish I had a scanner on this box now so I could burn in a few pictures of my final med cruise (USS America CV-66 back in 1992) - we went to Hurghada, Egypt after Desert Storm ended, and in addition to the much-needed and well-deserved liberty time, a group of about 250 of us went out into a small village and remodelled an orphanage and clinic there. Our corpsmen also went along and provided free medical checkups to all the kids and a large number of the adults living in this village. To this day I couldn't point to it on a map, but I know there's at least 100 people living in that village who remember us and what we did.
It's not always about killing people and breaking things, that's just what gets the most publicity...
It simply proves one thing: they're HUMAN (*GASP* Who'd thunk it!?)Quote:
I like the photos, and I'm very glad to see them. They show that the 'big bad soldiers' of the US actually have hearts. Folks tend to think our servicemen are inhumane at times, because they do their jobs so effectively. This proves otherwise. We aren't (nor weren't) all the 'go out, get trashed, womanize, and kill things' military.
As someone who was in the Armed Forces (763 Communications Reserve in Ottawa and proud of it, dammit!) I am proud to say that I went into the Reserves to learn something about me (I can actually take a beating and still do things) as well as be a peacekeeper (maybe). Granted my goals have changed but I'm still proud of my short time there. While I don't agree why the troops are over there in Iraq, they do deserve simple respect that every human does. What happened AFTER Vietnam shouldn't happen again.
Seperate the human from the political war.
Actualy tiger I was hangeing around with oficers...even married one so it was a bit more then just hanging out at the local military watering hole...and yes a good number of the officers and grunts where closed minded morons that couldn't wait to kill them some towel heads...a large number where good people as well but its real hard to tell which group was in the majority.Quote:
Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
BBallad.... Hanging around with grunts and saying you know them is equivalent to being a butler and telling people you live in a big mansion..... It sounds good but it's rubbish.... Join up, spend five years on the job then come and tell me how awful they are..... I was there ten years... There were people I didn't like but that doesn't make them bad.....
Just wanted to say thanks for the pictures. As a former solider and relative of many who have served or are currently serving, I know we all appreciate it.
There's your first problem.... You were hanging with the officers..... I refused the "opportunity" of a commission when I was offered one..... You see I had already experienced a lot of them and they were, (in general.... Yes, there are excellent ones), are simply a bunch of "gung-ho" schoolboys that think it's big to talk big..... Trust me... I know about this.... They like to impress the "civvies" with their warlike attitudes..... But when it comes down to it, it's the reason that there are Senior NCO's in the military.... Because _someone_ has to have common sense and judgement in the unit and it isn't usually the officer..... 'Nuff said about the officer corps.... may your god love them....Quote:
Actualy tiger I was hangeing around with oficers...even married one so it was a bit more then just hanging out at the local military watering hole...and yes a good number of the officers and grunts where closed minded morons that couldn't wait to kill them some towel heads...a large number where good people as well but its real hard to tell which group was in the majority.
To my next point.... Other than your Mrs. you were an outsider.... You weren't one of _them_.... I'd be willing to bet that in her heart of hearts your Mrs. really sees you as an outsider too.... I know for a fact that the serving members just love to demonstrate that "I'm a 'warry' bastard and I'll kill anything in my way" attitude to you civvies.... It's expected of them and it's "the thing" to do in front of the rest of their unit....
What you seem to misunderstand about a military unit is that they know that, if committed to combat, they will quite possibly die. They also know that to instill confidence in the other members of their unit in their ability and commitment, (which they require in order to be accepted by the rest of the unit), they can't go running around showing fear of the potential for combat. No matter what their real feelings are they _have_ to be that way.... It's their only opportunity to succeed because without demonstrating some form of "desire" to be in combat to their peers they wouldn't be allowed to be in combat by their peers, they would be ostracized(sp?). It's a closed society... as it should be.... A volunteer army discriminates against none but the unwilling......
That's where your "knowledge" of the military falls down..... much as you like to think you were an "insider" you _never_ were.....
MsMittens thanks! Very refreshing :).
-Kurt
If you used your brain before lashing out your see that the first picture isnt of one of the coalition forces within iraq, he is actually an israeli, look at the uniform, the gun and the boots.Quote:
negs from er0k - let's think, if you sign up to go to war without knowing why you are going: Why are you going? Money, or ambition to shoot people. Don't give me **** about fighting for freedom, when there is no threat to their freedom. Justify Iraq, dumbass.
justifty iraq? well i can't, I dont agree that are reasons for going to war were justified, I dont agree with everything thats what gives me half a brain.
If we had said originally we intended on going to war to remove an evil dictator I still wouldnt of approved 100% because at that time at least the country was still somewhat stable. WMD was just used becuase it had been built on for the past decade or so.
I didnt mention fighting for freedom as my reason to join, its not about oppression, its about doing something thats worthwhile. Thats my reason anyway, many people join up to get them selves oout of crime on there council estate, to pull more girls, to get more money, to travel the world. you a moron for believing that everyone that joins whats to see blood.
grow up, stamping one belief on hundreads and thousands of men and women is entirely wrong.
so neg me. negs mean nothing to me anyway. I dont beleive in attacking someones opinion.
i2c
As a current active duty Air Force service member who has nearly completed five years of service, how heart-wrenching it is to know that _some_ people believe that we are all *stupid for the service we provide our country. I wish that Erok were given one chance to say that to a mother/father/husband/wife/child or even a friend who has lost someone in this questionable, but what I feel is neccessary war. I wish he were given one chance to say that to my mother and see how fast she slaps the taste out of his mouth. There is nothing like telling your parents or loved ones that you won't be home for Christmas or Thanksgiving because you'll be working an eighteen hour shift or that it'll be another year before you can see them again or having a family member or friend pass away and not being there. I believe that every person has the right and the freedom not to like our President Bush or support his cause. However it is my personal opinion, that those who will go so far as to do a verbal injustice and disrespect to our country and the servicemembers and their families, should find residence elsewhere: you are not welcomed here by people like myself and our veterans who signed a contract binding us to protect your family, your freedom, and your life knowing that one day WE may give the ultimate sacrifice. IMHO.
I'd just like to re-visit the original sentiment of this post and forget the petty bickering. It's heartwarming for me to see these images. Theres no reason to wax political about it. Regardless of why someone joined the service or who's right or wrong, the images were really about humanity. And you better believe there's a whole lot of humanity going on over there right now.
So I just want to say thank you for sharing MsMittens, you've made my night.
Quote:
"Joy comes in the morning, there are no atheists in foxholes" - Any Given Sunday
MsM, thank you so much for these pictures. Indeed they were quite refreshing.
Er0k,
When 9/11 happened, I was 17, sitting in my psychology class when a kid told me a plane crashed into the WTC. I had no idea how bad it was. Then we turned on the TVs and started watching the devastation. My psychology teacher became pale and seemed as if she was going to pass out. Her daughter was at the WTC. When they the news announced that it was a terrorist attack, I got a feeling, the same feeling that many others did, to bring those responsible to justice.
I had the opportunity, when a Marine Corps recruiter was at my high school and I was talking to him. We met a few times, and I told him I needed some more time. Certain events happened including my father passing away, and I had to rethink my priorities. I could not leave my mother alone worrying about me every single day. Her heart condition would not be able to deal with it. I did not sign up, but every single day I wished i was there with the rest of those marines to punish those who were responsible for 9/11.
I wish I was in Iraq as well. I know war is ****, its horrible, but every time i read about a young man losing his life, I just wish I was there to have made a difference. If I save just one of those men's lives, then I would be happy. I wouldn't mind dying to save someone else's life.
You have the wrong idea about our Military. If our military was made up of the people you describe them as, then we'd be in deep ****. There are many very intelligent people in our military who could have gotten a decent job, easy in the US. Instead, they chose to make a difference by joining up. Its those people who make my day a lot easier. I never worry about how shitty a 14-15 hour shift is at my job....because there's people out there who have it worse, and I shouldn't complain.
Peace.
All this talk about why someone joins or doesn't join the service brings to mind (yet another in the endless list) a sea story I'd like to share - My introduction to Robert Heinlein.
We were all sitting around the shop one evening after chow and the typical BS session subject turned to 'why we joined the service.' To be honest, I was the one who started asking - we were mid-war and under constant late night GQ's from inbound missile fire (go figure - Saddam loved shooting at the carriers even though he could never actually hit them.) Anyway, one wizened Petty Officer First Class (by the name of Jeff Jenkins (and don't ever call him Petty Officer Jenkins either or he'd get pissed) handed me a copy of Heinlein's "Starship Troopers." He said, "Read this and you'll understand exactly why. You might even learn a thing or two about yourself in the process." For those of you who've only seen the movie(s), you've missed out horribly - they were edited way down to the point where they barely resemble the book on which they're based. Below I'll quote a bit which might explain further exactly why someone joins the service, and after a second quote which might explain further why we are so willing to make war:
And 2 on why we make war:Quote:
"No guessing, please; this is exact science. And your guess is wrong. The ruling nobles of many another system were a small group fully aware of their grave power. Furthermore, our franchised citizens are not everywhere a small faction; you know or should know that the percentage of citizens among adults ranges from over eighty per cent on Iskander to less than three per cent in some Terran nations -- yet government is much the same everywhere. Nor are the voters picked men; they bring no special wisdom, talent, or training to their soverign tasks. So what difference is there between our voters and wielders of franchise in the past? We have had enough guesses; I'll state the obvious: Under our system every voter and officeholder is a man who has demonstrated through voulentary and difficult service that he places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage."
"And that is the one practical difference."
"He may fail in wisdom, he may lapse in civic virtue. But his average performance is enormously better than that of any other class rulers in history."
Quote:
But on the last day he seemed to be trying to find out what we had learned. One girl told him bluntly: "My mother says that violence never settles anything."
"So?" Mr. Dubois looked at her bleakly. "I'm sure the city fathers of Carthage would be glad to know that. Why doesn't your mother tell them so? Or why don't you?"
They had tangled before -- since you couldn't flunk the course, it wasn't necessary to keep Mr. Dubois buttered up. She said shrilly, "You're making fun of me! Everybody knows that Carthage was destroyed!"
"You seem to be unaware of it," he said grimly. "Since you do know it, wouldn't you say that volence had settled their destinies pretty thoroughly? However, I was not making fun of you personally; I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea -- a practice I shall always follow. Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and thoroughly immoral -- doctrine that 'violence never settles anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."
Quote:
Well, why should I fight? Wasn't it preposterous to expose my tender skin to the violence of unfriendly strangers? Especially as the pay at any rank was barely spending money, the hours terrible, and the working conditions worse? When I could be sitting at home while such matters were handled by thick-skulled characters who enjoyed such games? Particularly when the strangers against whom I fought never had done anything to me personally until I showed up and started kicking over their tea wagon -- what sort of nonsense is this?
Fight because I'm an M.I.? Brother, you're drooling like Dr. Pavlov's dogs. Cut it out and start thinking.
Major Reid's victim summed up the unreleased prisoners: survivors of two divisions of British paratroopers, some thousands of civilians, captured mostly in Japan, the Phillipines, and Russia and sentenced for "political" crimes.
"Besides that, there were many other military prisoners," Major Reid's victim went on, "captured before the war -- there were rumors that some had been captured in an earlier war and never released. The total of unreleased prisoners was never known. The best estimates place the number around sixty-five thousand."
"Why the 'best'?"
"Uh, that's the estimate in the textbook, sir."
"Please be precise in your language. Was the number greater or less than one hundred thousand?"
"Probably sir. Almost certainly."
"Utterly certain -- because more than that eventually escaped, found their ways home, were tallied by name. I see you did not read your lesson carefully. Mr. Rico!"
Now I am the victim. "Yes, sir."
"Are a thousand unreleased prisoners sufficient reason to start or resume a war? Bear in mind that millions of innocent people may die, almost certainly will die, if war is started or resumed."
I didn't hesitate. "Yes, sir! More than enough reason."
"'More than enough.' Very well, is one prisoner, unreleased by the enemy, enough reason to start or resume a war?"
I hesitated. I knew the M.I. answer -- but I didn't think that was the one he wanted. He said sharply, "Come, come, Mister! We have an upper limit of one thousand; I invited you to consider a lower limit of one. But you can't pay a promissory note which reads 'somewhere between one and one thousand pounds' -- and starting a war is much more serious than paying a trifle of money. Wouldn't it be criminal to endanger a country -- two countries in fact -- to save one man? Especially as he may not deserve it? Or may die in the meantime? Thousands of people get killed every day in accidents...so why hesitate over one man? Answer! Answer yes, or answer no -- you're holding up the class."
He got my goat. I gave him the cap trooper's answer. "Yes, sir!"
"'Yes' what?"
"It doesn't matter whether it's a thousand -- or just one, sir. You fight."
"Aha! The number of prisoners is irrelevant. Good. Now prove your answer."
I was stuck. I knew it was the right answer. But I didn't know why. He kept hounding me. "Speak up, Mr. Rico. This is an exact science. You have made a mathematical statement; you must give proof. Someone may claim that you have asserted, by analogy, that one potato is worth the same price, no more, no less, as one thousand potatoes. No?"
"No, sir!"
"Why not? Prove it."
"Men are not potatoes."
"Good, good, Mr. Rico! I think we have strained your tired brain enough for one day. Bring to class tomorrow a written proof, in symbolic logic, of your answer to my original question. I'll give you a hint. See reference seven in today's chapter. Mr. Salomon! How did the present organization evolve out of the Disorders? And what is its moral justification?"
Relevent to day as much as when it was written:
Quote:
"Tommy"
Rudyard Kipling
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
Saddam drained 500,000 peoples culture and way of life, just to name one small group.:rolleyes:Quote:
Wow, I helped destroy the culture of the iraq's ~Erok
"The Marsh Inhabitants -- often referred to as Marsh Arabs or “Ma’dan” -- are an indigenous group of approximately 500,000 people who have inhabited Iraq’s southern marshlands for thousands of years. Their livelihood, culture, and way of life have always depended on the wetland ecosystem of Mesopotamia, situated between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Even as late as the 1970s the region was home to a recognizable and sustainable culture based on the gifts of the marshes -- including slowly-flowing shallow water, extensive beds of towering reeds, and abundant fish, game, and migratory birds."
http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/viewM...D/8/prmID/4458
If I recall correctly you voted for Kerry who voted against the troops supplemental package, how is that supporting 100%?Quote:
Originally posted here by debwalin I support the soldier 100%. I don't support the cause. It's simple.
I am not answering for debwalin but for me there is a big differance between supporting a politician or a political party and supporting your armed forces.
!mitationRust: That is a dark road to go down. How is vote for a group that sends our troops to war with inadequate armor and ammunition supporting the troops?
There is a contrast between adapting to the battlefield and voting no on a supplemental package.
Which in return Democrats were dealt a major drubbing. ;)
How is a group who severely cut the military budget for decades supporting troops?
How are the two parties rectifying the situation and making sure proper equipment is necessary? Their aren't because they fight like a bunch of old bitties with Ted Kennedy leading the crazy fringe (he's been up there almost 50 years!). The US Military is highly deployable and "supposed" to be able to carry on 2 major wars at the same time. And as they moved from stationary to highly deployable in the 90s perhaps Clinton missed something? Or maybe they are ready and someone was a little slow on the necessity of high tech armor. We aren't used to fighting people who suicide bomb sending shrapnel through lightly armored vehicles. To my knowledge the issue was being dealt with as fast as possible.
The reason the army is inadequate (if you want to take that stance) is because they were left with whatever inventory they had from Bill and the democrats. If their own doctrine left the military inaqequate, then you have to use what you got. Don't you? It probably would have been much worse if they (the party that sent them in) had not have waited a year. Perhaps that was a time to "gear up". Yes that is a dark road.
"He shouldn't have sent the troops in without proper equipment." No ****, why didn't they have it? Why the red tape to get it, after the fact? What they really mean is... "He shouldn't invaded another country not matter what, even in the wake of Geneva and the United Nations no country should ever be invaded and if you wear a Uniform you are an evil bastard who can't show any human emotion."
Well, i must say i'm a bit surprised that nobody came foward in er0k's defense. Maybe his wordings weren't the best choice here, but it's certainly a result of frustration towards this war. I don't condem him one bit. There's always two sides of a story and many people think like him. You can all tell me that the men and women of our armed forces are great for doing their job, and I do agree with that for the most part, but let's not forget that there are people out there fvcking up just for the hell of it. Like those soldiers that tortured iraq's prisoners, and sexually molested them, like those soldiers that shot an injured man for no reason, like the soldiers that break into civilians houses and drags the whole family out in the streets, while their babies are crying. There are bad apples in every tree. It's unfair to judge a group by those few, but who knows what else goes on that doesn't get media coverage?
Whoever is there, wether they agree with this war or not, they are supporting its cause. Now if they want to, that's a whole different ball game. Yes, many people who joined the military did so because " they couldn't hold a real job" and not because they woke up one day and said " I wanna defend freedom". Let's get real here. I recently spoke to a kid who told me he was enlisting so that he can leave the ghetto. It is the case of many men and women who enlist. They do it for financial/social reasons as a result of lack of opportunities and the government knows that and uses that as a tool for recruitment.
For the military guy who described his routine in the military as a response to er0k's comment ( real job?), dude, that doesn't sound like a normal job to start off with. How can you use that as an argument?
Now I don't know if er0k got banned as a result of this post, but if so...what kind of freedom fighters are we talking about here/ You express with so much emphasis that you risk your life to defend the freedom of others and yet you ban a member because he used that same freedom to express his opinions? Give me a break! Suck it up, not everybody thinks you are gods and not everyone agrees with your opinions. Learn how to debate with someone who has a different opinion.
As for the pictures, i'm sorry, but it is not heartwarming at all to me either. It's propaganda if you ask me. War is ugly , war is bloody and it's a tragedy that we still have to resolve our issues like barbarians. Humanity should be in a state of mind now where things shouldn't have to end up in killing of others. Yes, Saddam was a Hitler to me, but there were other ways to bust his regime.
To all a good night and god bless.
er0k LEFT, his account shows /ed guest status ?Quote:
Now I don't know if er0k got banned
He didn't need anyone to defend him, he was well able to do that for himself.
And for the rest of your whinge :
Are these the same ones who had just taken a KNOWN enemy position ?Quote:
like those soldiers that shot an injured man for no reason,
Hadn't they just been under fire from that position ?
Isn't this the country where suicide is a known attack posture ?
In a situation like that, the only policy that works is 'shoot first, ask questions later'
You are probably glad that he will be court martialled for following orders.
Civilian houses ? they are the suspected addresses of those that attack and hide, as for dragging the whole family out, you NEVER leave anyone un-guarded in their own environment, you always put them into a place of YOUR choosing.Quote:
like the soldiers that break into civilians houses and drags the whole family out in the streets, while their babies are crying.
Babies cry, it's a fact of life.
It's the military, it IS a normal job, it just isn't 9 to 5.Quote:
For the military guy who described his routine in the military as a response to er0k's comment ( real job?), dude, that doesn't sound like a normal job to start off with
your profile shows dick.
here for over a year, 2 posts.
we have nothing to base our ideas of you on, but as a W.A.G. [wild assed guess] I'd say you were just another snotty kid, no idea on what to do with your life, no intention of joining, but not capable of entering the military anyway, you just want to take cheap shots [no pun] at them.
grow and learn.
You NEED them, they DON'T need you ...........
Ok, so according to you, it's ok to shoot an unarmed injured enemy, nevermind searching him. But i guess in your mentality, the army was wrong to condem him as well.Quote:
Are these the same ones who had just taken a KNOWN enemy position ?Hadn't they just been under fire from that position ?
Isn't this the country where suicide is a known attack posture ?
Get your facts straight! They don't go into particular suspicious house. They go into a neighborhood and strip every freaking place! Pretty much how the nazis did with the jews.Quote:
Civilian houses ? they are the suspected addresses of those that attack and hide, as for dragging the whole family out, you NEVER leave anyone un-guarded in their own environment, you always put them into a place of YOUR choosing.
Sure , you sound very motherly. Children also don't forget, we are planting the seeds here. How would you feel if you were eating dinner with your parents, a bunch of soldiers broke into your house, dragged your parents out on the streets and kicked your dad on the stomach?Quote:
Babies cry, it's a fact of life.
BS! it is not your normal job. if so, why are we praising them for? Who cares if they leave their family for over a year behind, right? Who cares that they have to wear a bullet proof vest and walk around with guns to shoot ppl who wanna kill them? That's normal!Quote:
It's the military, it IS a normal job, it just isn't 9 to 5.
First of all, I wasn't aware that I needed an X amount of posts to express my ideas in this forum. I thought that's what AO addicts was for. Secondly, you don't have to get personal, I'm probably older then you , have a sh!tload of responsibilities in my life right now and my Job is pretty close to a military one.Quote:
your profile shows dick. here for over a year, 2 posts.
we have nothing to base our ideas of you on, but as a W.A.G. [wild assed guess] I'd say you were just another snotty kid, no idea on what to do with your life, no intention of joining, but not capable of entering the military anyway, you just want to take cheap shots [no pun] at them.