You make the call!

So as some of you already know, Mrs |ce was involved in a minor car accident in a parking lot last week. Below is a diagram of the exact position of the vehicles when they collided. The damage was pretty severe to our economy car - back door on the driver's side completely munched, possibly the frame is bent (unibody). :eek: The SUV that struck her suffered a little 1 inch scratch on the driver's side of their back bumper. :mad:

Our story: Mrs |ce had backed out of her spot, put the car in first gear and was starting to pull away when the SUV hit her.

Their story: Both drivers backed out at the same time.

After I get a little input from you as to who's at fault, I'll tell you what both insurance companies are saying - :rolleyes: Hint: let angle of impact be your guide.

from the position of the cars even if she wasn't in first gear it was his fault... but isn't Tejas a no fault state?

Was there not an accident report filed ? From what I have seen, usually the officer that works it is the one that assigns blame ?

Not on private property in this part of Texas. Police only file reports on accidents that occur on roadways. The police *were* called to the scene, and did nothing other than to hand a little diagram form (much like the paint drawing I've uploaded here) to each of the parties involved. It IS possible to subpoena the officer into court, but his testimony would reveal nothing since he didn't even get out of his car, let alone look over the damages.

As for Texas being a "No Fault" state, I'm unsure on that - I'll get back to you. Usually if a wreck occurs there's someone blamed for it, although there are most definitely instances where no one is at fault, or where both parties share blame. Usually this is determined by the separate insurance companies when the accident happens on private property.

[edit] This is what I was able to dig up - and it's not much.

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The laws of the state in which the accident occurs determine who pays for the damages from an automobile accident. Basically, in a no-fault insurance state, fault is not placed on either party, and each driver generally submits a claim to his or her own insurance company instead of establishing blame. Many states, including Florida, Kansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and others, have some form of no-fault insurance laws. No-fault auto insurance is widely misunderstood, and is applied differently in every state that offers it.

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From:
http://www.mcconnell-tormey-law.com/...ts/detail4.asp

Since this guy is an Amarillo, Texas attorney and he failed to mention Texas as having 'no fault' laws, I'm inclined to say we aren't.[/edit]

Was the driver of the SUV wearing a broad brim hat? if yes.. Definitly fault is on Car B..and the driver shot..
If not.. the fault is still on car be.. but the driver should not be shot..

In OZ.. while reversing the driver has to give way to ALL other vehicles.. a similar situation in OZ.. the insurance co would have to decide who is at less fault.. As far as the insurance co is concerned both vehicles could have still been in reverse at the moment of impact. read CSI spiel from here

Are the insurance companies saying 50/50 to blame. In most instances of prangs like this in the UK, that is what they try, so they don't have to pay for both repairs.

Stick to your guns. The driving possition in an SUV is much higher than in a car. He probably looked straight over the top of your motor. That does not excuse his lack of observation. He should have been using his wing mirrors.

Amazingly enough, yes, Safeco/Lloyd's (their insurer) is saying 50/50 blame based solely on their insured's statement.

Geico (our insurer) is saying 100 percent blame on them for 2 reasons: Angle of impact and low field of vision to the SUV. Our car is a Kia Rio - sub compact, tiny 4door speck of a rollerskate. Theirs was a Chevy Yukon. Even when Mrs |ce laid on the horn to alert the oncoming driver, the driver never slowed...she did, however, scream audibly loud enough for Mrs |ce to hear her through closed windows and over our blowing horn. (I wasn't present at the accident unfortunately or I'd have taken great pleasure in dismembering her hubby, who immediately hopped from the truck and started swearing it was Mrs |ce's fault.) Mrs |ce, being the good legal-minded person she is, quite calmly ignored the hysterical husband, got her camera from the glovebox and began snapping pictures of angles of impact, damages to vehicles (including reference points for size and extent), and copying down any and all information from the Yukon. I so love having a lawyer in the family, even one who likes driving a Kia. :D

To add to the issue at hand, she left the scene after the police had gone, got 2 miles down the road and experienced a breakdown of the vehicle. $40 in towing and a $25 estimate from my mechanic later (I know a gooooood mechanic and tow-truck person) we find that the timing belt is broken, and resultantly at least half of the 8 valves are bent, most likely all of them, to the tune of $1539.03 just to get the bloody skate running again, and NOT fixing the door. Now comes Safeco with their own estimate of $1600 for the door, and they're not touching the engine saying it wasn't related to the accident at all. I tend to agree with this, but them offering me 800 bucks to fix 3140 in damages is completely unacceptable.

We're sticking to our guns against Safeco, but the issue at hand is that we are:
A - out our primary mode of transportation and having to borrow a vehicle from my mom in law.
B - short on cash to sustain a prolonged legal attack.
and C - the mechanic is going to start charging us 'storage fees' soon - (I know the guy, but I don't know him THAT well that he'd waive his fees for me.)

Wish us luck, I'll keep you posted. Please, take this as a suggestion to deny SAFECO/Lloyd's your hard earned money! (yes, that's Lloyd's as in Lloyd's of London, which explains their modus operandi as mentioned in the post above this one).

Sorry to hear of your mis-fortune.

The only good thing in all this, is your wife escaped all harm that might have happened if the driver's door was impacted.

My wife had a single car accident prior to our first Christmas together after we first married years ago, which left her a quadriplegic for 5 months and almost took her life, being her spinal cord was damaged at C5,6 and some brain damage.
Every organ, nerve and muscle, including her limbs don't respond like they should which leaves her in a bit of a mess.
Doctors, even at Menniger Clinic, can do nothing and I've played the nurse for years.
Our entire married life has sucked because of this and we were just 28yrs old then but are now 47.
Life can really suck, but be happy you have your wife in one piece and a good married life together!

Well I am in Canada so I can't comment on Texas laws but I am in the autobody business and can tell from the angle that your wife would not be at fault. Insurance companies love to do 50/50 because they don't have to pay as much out as if their claimant was helo 100% at fault. No fault insurance here pertains to injuries only not to the collision damage so that may be something you want to look into. Were there any witnesses that would be willing to stand up for you or is it an he said/she said situation? How does the insurance work there, do you get the vehicle fixed and pay your deductible and still pursue legal action? Sorry for not being any help with that but here you would fix the vehicle to get it back on the road and to avoid storage charges and would still be able to pursue legal action after the vehicle had been repaired. If that is the case I would advise you tow the vehicle to a repair shop, pay the deductible, take any witnesses and go to court and fight it. Based on the drawing you have, the other party was not fully exited their parking stall, hence your wife had the right of way and the other party was clearly at fault. Unfortunately without any witnesses your options are limited because it is one person's word against another. Good luck, sounds like you have a bitch of a time ahead of you either way.

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The only good thing in all this, is your wife escaped all harm that might have happened if the driver's door was impacted. My wife had a single car accident prior to our first Christmas together after we first married years ago, which left her a quadriplegic for 5 months and almost took her life, being her spinal cord was damaged at C5,6 and some brain damage.
Every organ, nerve and muscle, including her limbs don't respond like they should which leaves her in a bit of a mess.
Doctors, even at Menniger Clinic, can do nothing and I've played the nurse for years.
Our entire married life has sucked because of this and we were just 28yrs old then but are now 47.
Life can really suck, but be happy you have your wife in one piece and a good married life together!

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Very sorry to hear that, you must love your wife very much. I applaud you for your love and diligence.

Sometimes we forget that cars can be fixed or replaced and people can't. For myself it is good to have these reminders because dealing with people every day, some get hurt some don't, helps me to remain personal to each individual's situation.

ZT - sorry to hear that here as well. It is a very sad thing to hear of someone injured or killed in a car accident. I do thank my lucky stars that Mrs |ce was uninjured, most especially in the tiny car she was in - disposable, Korean engineered for cheap price.

Zaggy - We can't get it fixed until the insurance comes forth, however in situations where there is provable fault, the insurance company is required to provide a rental car to the 'victim', or if it's in question, all storage charges, rental car fees (real or reimbursement for a loaner car like in our case), etc. must be paid once fault is proven. Our issue is that it'll be hell to prove in court. It's not a 'he said she said' situation - at least 2 employees of the business Mrs |ce was leaving saw the wreck occur. I haven't had much chance to look into either of their stories yet - that's my next step along with a brief interview to see how easily their credibility could be destroyed by an attorney. We've been gearing for a court battle from the moment of the accident, so we have the information short of sworn testimony.

A question to you, however, being in the body business - This Kia is a unibody car. I know that from a side-impact collision such as this even at a low speed the frame can easily be damaged. Is this a possibility in this situation, and how can I check for it? The estimate from which SAFECO is basing their settlement offer is only for door replacement and paint. Secondly, if the frame is damaged, how easily is it fixed, if at all?

Looks like your insurance company's lawyers will be having a steel cage match with their insurance company's lawyers. I'll put my money on Geico.....the gecko doing the robot will distract the other lawyers and allow Geico's lawyers to do an atomic knee drop followed by a super suflex that will end the match in the first round.

It is unlikely that frame damage will occur. On a unibody vehicle the entire vehicle is the frame. One panel and structure is dependant upon the other for structure and impact zones. A side impact will cause damage to the door, possibly the rocker panel and one of the three pillars, "A" pillar being the windshield pillar which the front door is hinged to, "B" pillar is the center pillar that the rear door hinges to and the front door latchs onto, "C" pillar is the rear pillar that the quarter panel is welded to. Underneath the vehicle there is 2 frame rails that the floor is welded onto, the vehicle is designed to collapse in certain ways to absorb the impact to protect the passengers. What a repair shop should do, is check that the vehicle is square from all angles. There are specs that are measured in mm's (here in Canada they are in mm's, I'm not sure about in the US). They should check the rocker and the floor where they weld to the pillars. On a Kia the entire side body assembly is one piece, meaning all the pillars are one and were welded on as one piece from the factory. This is not to say there are not proper sectioning guidelines. You should check that the doors align and open and close properly once repaired, and that there is no rubbing of the doors on any of the pillars. No wind noises and no unusual gaps from the top, sides and bottoms of the doors, check underneath the rocker panel and make sure there is not a lot of undercoating, some is required, alot is hiding something. Once I am at work tomorrow, I will save a picture of the side body assembly from my specification software and post it so you can see the areas that should be addressed as possible concerns.

If I can be of any further help let me know.

I can't see your wife being at fault. If she was in 1st gear to drive off then she must have been stationary so could not be reversing at the same time as the SUV.
Also she is almost perpendicular to the SUV and has reversed out of her spot adn is not reversing.
The SUV has reversed into her.

I think all insurance companies tell their customers to never admit fault at the scene of an accident. The Hubby of Mrs SUV was probably trying to intimidate your wife into admitting fault.

I drove in the US for the first time last year, scared the crap out of me. I thought the speed limit was usually 55 not 85. We had a Crysler 2.4l Turbo, what a joke, slowest thing I've ever driven handled like a russian tank. My diesel Renault Clio felt like a sports car when I got home. I couldn't see the point of the 'Super sized' SUVs I really couldn't.

In Virginia if two cars are backing and hit its automatically 50/50 regardless of angle and who did what first. Just their way of mitigating half of the damages. Sorry to hear about all of that and good luck with the case.

I was recently in an accident here in Texas and it was totally the other guy's fault because he pulled across all lanes of traffic and cut me off... well the insurance company at first tried to find someway to blame me even though it wasnt my fault at all but eventually he sholdered all the blame. so the insurance companies will try and blame u if they can but from what im seeing its not your wife's fault. goodluck.

I took a guess on the year and make of your Kia, I guessed a Rio. My bad the side does not come as an assembly, but it does come in parts. In the pictures with the floor and rockers, number 12 is the inner rocker panels, number 13 are the floor reinforcements (frame rails). The pictures with the side assemblies the center pillar is number 6, the "C" pillar is attached to the outer quarter panel. These are the areas of structure to focus on. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

The second attachement.

Hit the nail on the head again, you did. It's an 01 Rio. Still waiting on further response from both insurance companies after placing calls to them this morning.