Require a Certain Post Count before Submitting Tutorials

Hey Hey,

The last couple of days there have been some really sub-par, in my opinion (and I know others agree), from relatively new members... I'm all for new users bringing life to this site, God, or whatever other entity you may believe in, knows we need some life. However, I think that before they post a tutorial, they should have some understanding of what's acceptable and what isn't. I don't think that you'll find people walking away because they can't immediately post a tutorial, but I think that they'll have a somewhat better understanding of the site when they do finally post. It doesn't have to be extraordinarily high or anything, but we have posts counts to access Addicts, to have a custom avatar, to have APs count (for assigning anyways), so why not for this? I don't think it's too much to ask that a person have 20 or 30 posts under there belt before they show up and start posting... If they're serious it won't mean much to them... and it'll cut down on crap posts that are just looking for positive AP assignments, or to "make a name" for themselves.

Anyways..... that's my opinion.

Peace,
HT

HT, I agree with you in general. The most recent offender really felt more like a bitch-and-moan whah post than a Tutorial. I think several forums might need to be limited. But my thinking is also impacted by JPs letter of some time ago, when he gave his thoughts on Cosmos and other groups, plus the AP system in general. I think a lot of the forums around here don't actually contribute to the core of what AO is supposed to be about; they simply serve as life support to keep membership up.

That doesn't mean I don't like AO or want it to die; I simply don't believe these forums have anything of value in regards to the point of AO. Thus, you'll notice my lack of participation in them almost entirely. But hey, that's just me. If you enjoy them, go for it.

However, I have to point out that the AP system did very nicely for the thread I'm refering to...the thread started may not be banned *yet*, but is certainly well on their way, and the thread has indeed committed suicide already. <sarcastic irony> We'll teach *THAT* n00b to post a tutorial on how to behave around here for their 1st Post! </sarcastic irony> So while many bitch and moan at the broken AP system, all I can say is even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

Rather than requiring a post count, I would prefer to see the tutorials forum become moderated, as in new threads requiring approval. So long as the forum does not become an elite forum, remaining open to the general public, and, given the current moderation style on this board, I doubt it would be, I believe this would be a far more effective method of weeding out the crap we keep getting.

It would of course require the efforts of a few moderators to be effective, but with about 10 tutorials being posted a month, the effort should not prove prohibitive. Another moderator or two may be needed, but I believe it would be worth the extra effort if such an improvement is made.

This not only would eliminate the possibility that new members may post very good tutorials (however low you may believe that to be), but would also eliminate crap tutorials written by senior or long standing members (and I have seen a few). If a proposed tutorial were rejected, a response could be sent explaining why, and making suggestions for improvements (or a simple "no" or a whirlwind of insults if that's your style).

I would also like to see the addition of another "rule" regarding the tutorials forum. Do not post material you have already posted elsewhere. I am rather sick of seeing people sign up and within two days, regurgitate work they have already done, either to make a name for themselves or boost their ego. This would not be acceptable in any professional journal, and should not be here either. It may also cause copyright conflicts with Jupiter Media and wherever it's already been posted.

All said, just as many crap tutorials are submitted by 100+ post members as are by new members. Moderating the forum fully would go a long way to solving most of the problems it faces today.

But hey, that's just my opinion

I don't plan on contributing anything at all here just as I have not learnt much from AO either. Now with that said, how do you think people will feel knowing they will need to beg, roll-over, & jump though hoops to be judged by a nazi who once gave a bunch of cheesy "anti-views" but only to the biggest butt-kissers on the board... or a lady who pulls these AO-articles out of the ying-yang and sometimes seems to be the equivalent of Carolyn Meinel... this as opposed to having the so called "community" be just that... and for what? To toss a bone at people who clearly enjoy fine subjects such as "how to install and run something"?

In all honestly, this is just like when HT suggested that we get rid of 99.9% of the members here so the 0.1% could contribute while the rest would need to pay money to post. But atleast then someone would still get something out of it... even if its only like five cents.

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I would also like to see the addition of another "rule" regarding the tutorials forum. Do not post material you have already posted elsewhere. I am rather sick of seeing people sign up and within two days, regurgitate work they have already done, either to make a name for themselves or boost their ego. This would not be acceptable in any professional journal, and should not be here either. It may also cause copyright conflicts with Jupiter Media and wherever it's already been posted.

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Take a good look at Tony, he's made damn sure that his name and that goofy picture of his is everywhere. Agian, don't blame new guys if you find a problem... new people have an excuse, none of you do.

Incase none of you have noticed, the more people screw with the site, the more we have these conversations about how the site is going downhill yada yada yada... and I keep saying it, don't touch, just leave it alone kids or else it spreads.

You, of course, also have an excuse for the quality of your posts. I believe it's related to brain capacity.

Ya know if you trim the 95% crap away from Specialist's posts, there's actually a good point hidden in there. He's gotta be the most genius idiot I've seen around here (and so I'm starting to realize that's the point eh?). Of course, if he'd just stick to making the point, his posts would be five words long each, but hey...

I have to agree though. As tempting as it is to keep newbies from posting tuts, we'd block out some excellent newbies (remember IronGeek's intro to AO?). It's overkill. If a newbie (or veteran) posts a crap tutorial, neg it, kill it, remove it. We just have to maintain that "survival of the fittest" approach to critiquing threads, especially in the tuts section.

Specialist, your methods of making a point and begging to be negged befuddle me, but I see your point hidden in there.

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don't touch, just leave it alone kids or else it spreads.

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That's been the problem all along, and also what I used to say all the time around here. AO has always and will continue to balance itself out. But I disagree that there's nothing to learn...As I've said before, follow someone like TigerShark or TheHorse around the forums for a bit and you'll pick up on plenty.

ok so instead of allowing them to submit tutorials we now have newbies posting crap in other forums to increase their post count so they can post their tutorial?

I agree with Striek instead of putting a limit on who can post tutorials have them approved before they are put on public display...or have each new tutorial automatically generate a poll (something like approve/disapprove) after X length of time if the disapprives out-numbered the approves the tutorial is deleted cleaning out the forum somewhat.

But then again you can usually tell if a tut is going to be of any use or an intresting read to you within the first 5 lines - so if you dont like it dont read it.

v_Ln

Well, I can sort of see the issue, but I don't think that there is any logical relationship between the quality of a tutorial and the number of posts someone has made.

All a limit might do is prevent trolls from posting tutorials, but they don't do that anyway?

Moderating might be an option but there are practical problems in that IT is such a broad subject and our tutorials cover a wide range of topics?

I would say leave things as they are unless the situation gets out of hand.

Just my £0.02

I would suggest that the completeness, accuracy, reasonable spelling and grammar and relevance of a tutorial posted by a newer member are a wonderful window into their knowledge, their ability, their attention to detail and their own personal pride. Therefore a tutorial by a newer member stands as a permanent look into their mind and character.

Let them stand... just neg them closed as quickly as possible to prevent the whining.... ;)

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to be judged by a nazi who once gave a bunch of cheesy "anti-views" but only to the biggest butt-kissers on the board

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I believe the expression you were looking for is conducted cheesy "anti-views", not gave :D

Wow. That was the fastest from Ignored-Banned-Rejoined-Ignored anyone has ever gone from my view. Nice work Specialist. I'd give you a prize, but you wouldn't appreciate anything anyway, so why bother.

Yes, it is tempting to say "ban the n00bs from posting in these categories", but the argument that we would miss out on some decent info is valid. The greater argument, however, is the increased crap we'd receive elsewhere so someone would get to a level where they COULD post.

So once again it seems we've agreed to...do nothing.

Negative...you're not a nazi, you couldnt be. Wrong nationality. You're a nazi-collaborator!

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I agree with Striek instead of putting a limit on who can post tutorials have them approved before they are put on public display...or have each new tutorial automatically generate a poll (something like approve/disapprove) after X length of time if the disapprives out-numbered the approves the tutorial is deleted cleaning out the forum somewhat.

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I can't beleave you don't see anything slightly lame about hanging ANOTHER ugly object above threads. As if I want to look at one more useless and forgotten piece of clutter hanging above pages... opps I mean another "feature" like this thread AP crap which is slowly covering my wonderfull collection of banners.

As much as I agree that tutorials ought to be reasonably sound and easy to read, I find it ironic to hear people complaining about spelling and grammar when I can randomly pick out a post from anyone here ( including myself ) and have a ' high ' probability of finding at least one error, and likely several.
We are a diverse community of people from all different backgrounds and experiences, various ages and levels of maturity, and varying degrees of education. I, personally, like the diversity.
AO has never been an Elitist Utopia, and never will be, because if it ever came to that...

you'd have nobody to complain about.

Eg ;)

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Yeah and its called the AP system. I can't beleave you'd actually want to hang ANOTHER ugly object above threads. As if I want to look at one more useless and forgotten piece of clutter hanging above pages... opps I mean another "feature" like this thread AP crap slowly covering all of my wonderfull collections of banners.

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I actually think that ¤The¤Spe©ialist has a good point here :eek: We already have the AP system, but the Thread AP facility removes any need for a poll or whatever? If you don't like a tutorial then neg the thread, and if you think that the person who wrote it is an idiot then neg them as well. I presume that a tutorial can go "suicidal" like any other thread? at which point in time it should be deleted.

I do not think that that would be a particularly onerous task, as I don't see it happening to many of them.

I am personally more in favour of constructive criticism, as that will teach the poster to do it better next time? Also, if someone posts a tutorial that contains inaccuracies, then the poster at least believes in them, and I would guess that quite a few others probably do as well. Debunking these errors is helpful to all these people.

just my thoughts :)

Hi nihil,

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I am personally more in favour of constructive criticism, as that will teach the poster to do it better next time? Also, if someone posts a tutorial that contains inaccuracies, then the poster at least believes in them, and I would guess that quite a few others probably do as well. Debunking these errors is helpful to all these people.

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I couldn't agree more...AO is a place to learn...if someone has a problem with incidentals or errors they should ' teach ' the person where those are so they can be corrected and that way everyone can benefit from the advice.

AO is not a place so that some people can show how brilliant they are...it is essentially a ' teaching facility '.

Eg ;)

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You must spread your AntiPoints around before giving it to nihil again.

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Can someone do the honors for me? :D

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Originally posted here by Egaladeist
AO is not a place so that some people can show how brilliant they are...it is essentially a ' teaching facility '.

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Hey Hey,

This is the last thing that AO should be.... if you want to learn, go pay for schooling. AO is, or should be, a security resource. A place to go to find information on a subject and learn... but to learn through reading and asking the occasional question. If you come to this site, you should be capable of teaching yourself or you should be going to school in the subject area. Quite a few people here, myself included, complain about the low quality of posts and subjects discussed. Wasn't there just a rather large addicts thread on this subject? Refering to AO as a teaching site just supports more idiots joining and further lowers the quality of the site. I have a hard time finding a thread worth posting in anymore because there's never anything other than news and tech support posted. The occasional worth while question is around, but they're few and far between. The common response to that is someone saying to create your own discussions, but then you get tools like The Specialist and other trolls, that for some reason aren't banned immediately, posting crap. The last thing this place needs is self-righteous, arrogant *****s that think a few lines of basic psychology tied with insults is a humerous way to spend the day. Is it really our fault that they spend their days in a dark basement and have no friends to associate with? No, yet will still have to deal with them. They claim to hate the site and get banned time and time again, but continue to return and, as always, they still have nothing to contribute. I'd like to hope that AO could actual prove to be useful again, as it was in the past... but as I've said before and I'll say again... all we're doing is putting AOL Technicians out of work one post at a time.

Why can't this site be what it's supposed to be, a security site for free and open discussion of relevant and meaningful topics. People are attacked for for asking how to hack hotmail, but the truth is the people that post because their sound doesn't work or they can't network two PCs are just as bad... Why do we continue to support this? There's a documentary on stupidity and I'm begining to think that what it says is true. It states that to be happy, you have to be stupid. I can see this, how can a smart person be happy when they have to carry the stupid people along. It's time that we cut the lifeline and let them fend for themselves.

Peace,
HT

Hi HT,

You have you're opinion and I have mine, obviously they do not agree...but that's fine...that's the diversity I spoke of.
You think you're right...that this place should be for the ' chosen few ' and those of us ( including me ) should just come to read and learn without participation...I'm sure some will agree with you.
I don't...and some will agree with me too.

It's called, for lack of a better term: Life!

Eg ;)

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but the truth is the people that post because their sound doesn't work or they can't network two PCs are just as bad... Why do we continue to support this?

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Because Jupiter Media host the site, and having a balanced set of forums attracts more members and visitors. The membership size and hit rate dictate the revenue that they get from advertising. I guess it is as simple as that?

Commercialism?

:)

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Originally posted here by Egaladeist
Hi HT,

You have you're opinion and I have mine, obviously they do not agree...but that's fine...that's the diversity I spoke of.
You think you're right...that this place should be for the ' chosen few ' and those of us ( including me ) should just come to read and learn without participation...I'm sure some will agree with you.
I don't...and some will agree with me too.

It's called, for lack of a better term: Life!

Eg ;)

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Hey Hey,

This is the internet... never mistake it with life.... they are two completely seperate things.

I also think this site is for a lot more than the 'chosen few'. I think there are more good minds here than bad, the problem is that the stupid always overshadow the smart. In class who get's recognition (regardless of if it's good or bad) the person who screws up or the person that aces it? At work who get's recognition.. the guy who does his job every day... or the guy who's late three times a week... recognition doesn't have to be good... It's just a matter of taking up someone elses time, and unfortunately the few idiots on this site are taking up peoples time and over populating the forums with useless ****.

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Because Jupiter Media host the site, and having a balanced set of forums attracts more members and visitors. The membership size and hit rate dictate the revenue that they get from advertising. I guess it is as simple as that?

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Have you ever seen the number of people that are subscribed to some of the mailing lists out there.. AO could attract a lot of users from some of the mailing lists that exist, people that actually post meaningful stuff, but a lot of those people aren't going to want to come here where they'll find people asking how to plug in their monitor cable.

You've only listed why JupM supports it.. which is understandable... What is your reason for supporting it... Do you see any o fthe money that JupM gets? Do you think they'll shut this site down if they lose a few idiots? I highly doubt it.

Peace,
HT

Hi HT

I answered your question with what I believe to be the "real" reason. Jupiter Media own the site and therefore chose the content. They will do what they believe is commercially the best for them ?

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but a lot of those people aren't going to want to come here where they'll find people asking how to plug in their monitor cable.

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Errrrrrr, I don't believe that. There is nothing to make you read every post. You can tailor the front page so you only see the posts you might be interested in, and you can also choose which forums you visit.

My feeling (off the top of my head) is that the solution is to recruit more security minded individuals and specialists. I feel that would naturally steer the site in the direction you are suggesting?

I have noticed on other sites that they have forums to support particular security products, often assisted by representatives of the authors.............I am not sure if that is the way to go?

I do think that some sort of focused recruitment drive would be helpful.

:)

Hi HT,

I agree that the people who contribute the most should be ' rightfully ' recognized for their contributions...JupM should realize that and somehow reward those who rightfully deserve it...after all...they are making money off of the site and those contributions.
I also agree that there are some idiots on the site...but I find them humorous so I have no animosity toward them...maybe I'm a little too laid back in that regard. :D

Still...we are never going to agree on the general purpose of this site, or in it's delivery...to teach and inform...if everyone always agreed with me I'd think there was something wrong...because I've yet to see it happen...and it'd be way too boring.

Eg ;)

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if you want to learn, go pay for schooling. AO is, or should be, a security resource. A place to go to find information on a subject and learn... but to learn through reading and asking the occasional question. If you come to this site, you should be capable of teaching yourself or you should be going to school in the subject area. Quite a few people here, myself included, complain about the low quality of posts and subjects discussed. Wasn't there just a rather large addicts thread on this subject? Refering to AO as a teaching site just supports more idiots joining and further lowers the quality of the site.

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is it just me or is that the most self-contridicting posting ever?
it's like saying 'AO isn't someplace to learn things, but we all come here to learn form each other'

like wtf?

just cause someone has a lower level of understanding than you do does not mean they should be excluded - nor does it mean you should 'dumb things down' for them

personnaly I think things here would be just fine if people like HT would get off their whole 'I'm better than you - so i know best trip and start relaxing a little

v_Ln

Hey Hey,


I give up...

nihil, I'm not asking why JupM supports them, I'm asking why you support these people... Why do you respond to threads started by idiots? Will you deal with an inferior tailor or a sub-par auto mechanic? and if you make that mistake once, do you take your car back because maybe they'll learn from it? If you don't, then why do it here.


Eg, I'm not saying JupM should reward people for contributing... I'm saying that it's impossible to find a shed of meaning in threads on this site because the sheer number of bad threads, like this one (and I'm not stopping until you admit you'd rather see some security content than all these stupid little kids asking how to fix their home computers... after all that's why ou came here right?), that keep the good threads from showing up more often.

v_Ln, I'm saying this is a place to learn, but it's not a place where we should have to spoon feed the information to people. I think that's pretty straightforward. Do you expect to go to university for Comp Sci and have the Networking Prof come to your dorm because you have a virus on your computer? Maybe he'll hold your hand and walk you step by step how to clean up after yourself... but that seems highly unlikely... I don't think someone that knows less should be excluded... but we have to dumb everything down, otherwise we get a list of posts from the "stupid" people asking what you mean.

It's not a "I'm better than you - so I know best" trip... It's a why do we continue to put up with idiots on this site... I'd ask you to understand but you're a web designer... which is rather close to a programmer, and I've seen the programmers at a few of the companies in town... Programmers are usually the most technologically incompetent of all when it comes to the actual workings of their computer and how to keep it working properly... I suppose you deal with a lot of these people and have become immune to their stupid questions. I'd prefer to not become desensitized to user ignorance and incompetence and instead get rid of that breed of user.

Peace,
HT

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I'd ask you to understand but you're a web designer... which is rather close to a programmer, and I've seen the programmers at a few of the companies in town... Programmers are usually the most technologically incompetent of all when it comes to the actual workings of their computer and how to keep it working properly...

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That was a pretty low blow .... For someone who has "Phishing Moderator
Know-it-All Master Beaver" ....

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Originally posted here by Agent_Steal
That was a pretty low blow .... For someone who has "Phishing Moderator
Know-it-All Master Beaver" ....

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Hey Hey,

Did you read the rest of it... it was focused at him... but saying that I'm sure he's used to working with people like that and has grown accustomed to it.

In general though, it is the truth... Out of the 350-500 programming students we have, maybe 5 of them are capable of something basic like reinstalling after they format their systems. We also have a Web Design course (which is being phased out) and the graduates of it take CCNA along with the web programming courses and none of them can configure a router and switch when they come out of it... due to minimum pass rates, tests have to be curved, labs dropped... They don't think the same way and aren't capable of the same thing. You get a lot of people that do both programming and networking/operating system/hardware stuff and they're great to work with... but people that only program are useless when you put them at a computer. I've meet programmers where I actual question if they'd know how to open the IDE for the language they use. Whenever a new ASP website is implemented at the college, we have to request between 20 and 30 fixes before it's operational... yet it's supposedly been "operational the entire time".

In some ways it was more of a compliment. A lot of programmers are focused on what they do... so focued that it's all they know.... others are tools, but for many it's a level of focus. You go to different doctors for different areas, because they are focused. Do you think that your dentist could cast your broken leg? It's the same with IT.... I'm just saying that he's dealing with these focused people and the tools and has forgetten that it's possible to have a place without idiots.... AO is not a programming website, at least not primarily... Yet we get a lot of programmers here, and a good number of them tend to be tools with other things.

Peace,
HT

Hi HT,

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Eg, I'm not saying JupM should reward people for contributing... I'm saying that it's impossible to find a shed of meaning in threads on this site because the sheer number of bad threads, like this one (and I'm not stopping until you admit you'd rather see some security content than all these stupid little kids asking how to fix their home computers... after all that's why ou came here right?), that keep the good threads from showing up more often.

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I agree, I came on this site to learn and, therefore, am very interested in ' good threads '...mostly, when I have a problem I attempt to fix it myself from the info I gain here or through google ( which is why I don't ask many questions...3-4 to date I think )...and, yes, there are alot of people posting questions they could fix themselves too if they just did a little research on AO or googled for it...and, yes, there are alot of threads that detract from the ' main focus ' of the site ( some I've started myself )...
are there things that can be done to improve the quality of the site...of course!

But that is what the AP system is for...if you come across a thread that has no intrinsic value then neg it and the message will be clear...if you come across a script-kiddie or someone mouthing off then neg them and get your message across...if you come across a person who asks a question that he obviously has taken ' no time ' to figure out for himself then neg him and tell him why...if you come across someone who revives a thread and has nothing new to offer then neg him too...but...you have to be careful because sometimes people neg just because they disagree with another person's point of view...

aside from those four things negging serves no useful purpose...and besides those four things there is nothing you can do at this point to change anything.

If you are that committed to making this a more security oriented site and less like a computer help forum then...utilize your AP system to instigate that change...just don't abuse it ( and I don't expect that you would ).

Eg

;)

Hey Hey,

Finally an agreement...

Now our only difference is how we see that it should be dealt with.... I'd rather limit new users so that they're forced to learn the rules, rather than see them make a bad post and be negged until banned and not really learn because they never even got the chance to log in and read the AP assignments.

But I'm happy with that... and I'm fine with the negging... To me they make AO like a video game... I come here... I laugh at the majority of the threads and then I spread around the red.... It's rather entertaining, and cheaper than my buddies that pay for WoW.

Peace,
HT

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but you're a web designer... which is rather close to a programmer, and I've seen the programmers at a few of the companies in town... Programmers are usually the most technologically incompetent of all when it comes to the actual workings of their computer and how to keep it working properly

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my god it must be sheer luck this machine actually turns on then - seeing as I obviously dont know how to install my OS...nevermind I built the machine am currently sitting at. ;)

HT - yes i may not be as involved with networking as some people, however that does not mean i dont know anything about it. I've done my time as IT support / admin for a large company network (at a contact center - so was looking after everything from the syntelate server and GTX dialler - down to the 150+ win98 agent stations and the CTI machine)

I dont claim to be a guru....not in the slightest - but am not an idiot either when it comes to things outside of web dev / programming.

But we are going off on a lil tangent here - ok lets break this down to the most basic idea.....

every newbie is dumb until proved otherwise.

thats pretty much what your saying - and i disagree, newbie at AO does not mean newbie at everything. So you want to put-off new people form posting...i know i wouldn't bother with a site where i had to hang around and do nothing for ages before i could post - i would just go elsewhere ithout the restrictions.

And new members are the life's blood of a forum - without them there is only so much knowledge the current members can have - new members bring additional edxperiences and knowledge and increase the depth of the current knowledge pool.

v_Ln

Hey Hey,

Perhaps the tagline for AO should be AntiOnline: Where people take things out of context.

I'm also not saying that I think every newbie to AO is a newbie to the world of computers and computer security. I'm saying that they are a newbie to AO (this can't be argued). I think they should be limited in what they do until they've had a chance to see how things work around here and what is and isn't acceptable.

If no one likes the idea of limiting access based on post count. What if people were forced to read the FAQs and some of the stickies...

When you join you have the ability to post in non-technical forums.
If you want to post in technical forums there's a quiz for you to take... not a technical quiz, but a quiz that asks you like 10 or 15 questions from points in the FAQ... They can open a second browser and do it open book style.. it still means they at least have to look at the FAQ.
There's more than enough stickies and tutorials on writing and posting a tutorial, before they're allowed to start new threads in the Tutorials forum... have another quiz that has questions from one of the tutorials stickies...

This way you aren't limiting people that are capable of posting, and you aren't discriminating... you're simply ensuring that they read the proper documentation

Peace,
HT

This would only give the impression of "We think we're better than you, so you need to prove otherwise", which is not the point of this place.

The original topic of this thread seems to have been lost in all the argument. It was orignally limited to the tutorials forum, not a wide-ranging post limiting policy. Despite the fact that no agreeable solution has yet been found, HT has still made a valid point in that there are simply too many shitty tutorials which make it difficult to find the good ones. Personally, I actually use tutorials here regularly as a reference source. Unfortunately, I have to usually wade through two or three crap ones before I find anything decent. Now, while this may not seem like a lot of work, and in reality, it isn't, it gives the impression that this site has shitty tutorials (and maybe we do). This unfortunately prevent the quality tutorials from gaining the recognition they deserve when guests are looking for them.

There is one, and only one reason why there are so many of these floating around. And everyone is afraid to say it. With regards to the tutorials forum, the moderation on this board sucks. If moderators would simply delete tutorials not deserving of being published there wouldn't be a problem. We could all rest assured that it would be gone by the next day. But for some unkown reason, moderators seem to believe that deleting posts is some kind of carnal sin. To improve this board requires work, and apparently, none of our current mods are willing to do this work. Perhaps they are busy with other endeavours, have lost interest in AO, or are too liberal in allowing this crap. Either way, moderators are needed who will put a stop to it.

I can put up with trolling, flaming, name calling, cussing, and whatever crap may appear on this board. It's nothing new, and the moderation in those areas is outstanding in my opinion. But the tutorials forum should be held to a higher standard. Whether this is accomplished through minimum post counts, AP status, length of time here, stricter moderation, or, more than likely, whether nothing is done at all, is up to moderators and Jupiter Media. But the low quality of tutorials this thread is attempting to find a solution for is the whole purpose of having moderators in the first place. Finding a way to have a computer program replace those moderators is not, has never been, and will never be a solution.

But I think that if anything was going to be done about this problem, if you call it a problem, it would have been done already. Everyone is aware of the problem, including moderators. They simply aren't doing anything about it.

Well HT you have asked a fair question that I believe deserves an answer:

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nihil, I'm not asking why JupM supports them, I'm asking why you support these people... Why do you respond to threads started by idiots? Will you deal with an inferior tailor or a sub-par auto mechanic? and if you make that mistake once, do you take your car back because maybe they'll learn from it? If you don't, then why do it here.

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OK, you obviously understand Jupiter Media's commercial stance so we are in agreement there? all that leaves is my personal approach?

Now, although my backgound is systems analysis, design and architecture; I have also had many years experience messing with hardware. In a small organisation, you cannot hide behind a job title, you are the man on the spot so you deal with it. It also means that you deal with total computer illiterates, who just might be good at their jobs?

As I now live in a rather small resort and fishing town, there are fewer people to talk with after work about serious matters. In fact I mostly work from home. You would be amazed at what I get asked in the pub, or people ring me up about ...............for example, the other day someone rang me up saying that their mouse didn't work..............I told him to replace the batteries!!!........it worked then!!!

I guess that over the years I have learned to be patient with these sorts of people. Another point is that hardware fault finding is a skill that takes some time to acquire, so I do not see that many posts that are not valid. Sure, I will answer the odd idiot one, but that is only to kill it ;)

In other posts I am either being humorous, ironic or sarcastic................and I do need my monthly intake of Trolls............... :D they help take the fur off my teeth.

I would ask you to look at these site statistics:

Senior Members...............................213
Addicts.............................................74
Members..........................................97

And I would bet that less than a half of those are active?

Anyway, Jupiter Media are not going to change this into some sort of security elitist site so you will have to learn to live with it. I still believe that the problem is not enough active security experts...............until that is addressed, I do not see any prospect for change.

In the final analysis "If you know of a better site: go to it "

Cheers

Sorry to dig up an elderly thread but I had a thought and this was the most recent thread regarding similar ideas to that thought.

Could tutorials be sumitted to a write only forum/folder for peer review. If the tutorial is deemed to be worthy it is entered into the correct tut area. If it is good but a bit scrappy it could be returned to the author with an invite to resubmit.

Now I can see problems with that idea, who would carry out the peer review, who vets the vetters, who would give up the time to do such a task.

Reviewers would probably have to be named at the end of the paper.

I think this is the way scientific papers are submitted for publishing. It would cut down the chaff if it worked well.

'tis only an idea. :halo:

What you are talking about is called private messages, conference rooms, email & the like...

With the way things are done here in site suggestions I really don't understand why we even keep features on this site at all since it will be replaced as soon as members forget about them.

Look at what is happening here... you got all this "blue" where the purple should be.
This "thread AP" crap hanging over threads and doing nothing more than looking ugly.
The same with links to news articles that get posted on the site anyways.
Just a few inches under this post is not one but TWO search bars.

But then if some random new guy thinks something should be added everyone jumps on the bandwagon and JupM will implement something for their marketing guinea pigs. Meanwhile someone will forget about it or we're so cluttered with **** we now have navigational problems aswell... then what? We'll repeat the process of needlessly adding something to this site.