Heat Problem...

As some of you may or may not know, I have recently built my gaming computer. It runs great and everything but it heats up very fast. I have a prescott 3.0 ghz 800fsb cpu, and that's known to get real hot. Right now I only have stock heatsink and fan, but I'm going to get a better one soon. But it the computer in general runs very hot. The bios pc health says my processor runs at about 52-54 C and the system as a whole is running at about 36-40C. Well I downloaded Everest home version and it says my cpu is running at 39C... that's a big difference! So what's going on here? And what temp monitoring programs do you suggest?

I got stock heatsink and fan on my cpu, 1 side 80mm intake fan, 1 back 120mm outtake fan, and 1 top 80mm out take fan. The side intake fan is blowing air on the cpu heatsink and fan, and the back outtake fan is on the side of the cpu blowing air out of the case. I'm thinking the back fan is blowing the hot air coming out of the cpu fan AND the cooler air coming in from the side intake fan OUT of the case... So I did a test, if I switched the back outtake fan to make it an intake fan, the result is hotter cpu temps, cooler system temps... I'm thinking once I get my new heatsink and fan I should just leave the back fan as intake... What do you think?

Sorry about the long essay over such a simple matter, but these 2 questions are bugging me... Especially the top question...

Thanks in advance

Sorry to ask but.

how is the general airflow? Any cables in the way ?

well... I guess it's pretty cluttered. When I buy my new heatsink and fan I'm also planning on buying those round IDE cables...

Hi The Duck

If it was a "stock" heatsink and fan then it probably came with the standard "white gunk" thermal paste? You should use SILVER BASED compound, it is 20 time (2000%) more efficient than the standard product. Also, follow the instructions carefully.............you can put too much on as well as too little

Also, when you are in the store, get an exhaust fan. It takes up a mounting at the back like a PCI card. Costs about $7-$10 and will evacuate 40-60 cubic feet a minute. I put them in all the boxes I build ;)

I think that Everest underestimates.................this is a :

P4 2.26Ghz
1024Mb PC2700
2x 80Mb 7200rpm drives (RAID1)

Everest says that the system is 14C and the CPU 21C...........................but the room temperature is 24C and I would expect the processor to be +10 to +15C above that?

I have just used my laser guided spot meter and the system seems to be at 24C in reality.

:)

hi
i found too that in pc health usually shows few more degres hoter.
as i have asus motherboard they have a little utility which is called asus probe and i belive they are quiet accurate.
have a little look on this site which will give you good idea about fans and cooling and what are the best fans and so on
http://cpumag.com/Articles%5CPDFMaga...0804.PDF?guid=
mr.nihill is spot on with silver termal paste and before putting it on i clean the spot very good with alcohol.
have a look at this chart it will give you an idea about max temp.
http://www.gen-x-pc.com/cputemps.htm
i dont think your pc is running hot but then on the other hand we all want it to be lowerrrrrrrrrrrr:)
(have a termaltake case with 6 fans plus 1 monster on pc:)
hope you find this info useful
good luck

Is this the HP machine you brought up last time? Or a new one?

Check this out:

• Thermalright XP-90 Heatsink - One of the best Heatsink Manufactuers & good product
  $36.99
  
• Vantec 92mm Fan - Looks powerful/silent enough to do well & heat controls its RPMs
  $7.49

The only problem is that I'm not completely sure if that heat sink will fit on your motherboard. (Physically it is pretty big) But it is definately more than capable of keeping your machine cool with even slower fans. It is a heatsink that overclockers like for performance. So it is probably very overkill for your setup..., but checkout what Thermalright has to offer and you can't go wrong. (Don't get tricked into the Thermaltake brand, not as good as Thermalright but still decent) Cheers.

nihil, no i'm not using the white gunk you are talking about, I'm using something worse... the thermal pad that came witht he processor... lol

Tim Axe, no this isn't my HP this is my gaming rig I just built... Thanks for the product suggestions, I'll have to look into them.

So should I not trust everest??

On the subject of air-flow, it is important that what you blow in can get out ...............

That is, you should balance the in / out fans in number / size.

one 120mm HSF pulling air into the case requires one 120mm HSF to expel air ........

Quote:

---

I got stock heatsink and fan on my cpu, 1 side 80mm intake fan, 1 back 120mm outtake fan, and 1 top 80mm out take fan. The side intake fan is blowing air on the cpu heatsink and fan, and the back outtake fan is on the side of the cpu blowing air out of the case. I'm thinking the back fan is blowing the hot air coming out of the cpu fan AND the cooler air coming in from the side intake fan OUT of the case...

---

You seem to have one 80mm IN
with one 80mm + one 120mm OUT ??

this can lead to problems at the extreme edge, where air flow is vital, and with imbalance the air can 'stagnate'.

this won't help with the HOT CPU, but it will help in your additional fan requirements .....

Remember to pull cool air in from one side, and expel it on the other.

Hi The Duck

I never buy boxed packages. I buy an OEM processor and a decent heatsinkand fan, and use Artic or Antec silver compound.

Over the years I have tried several third party softwares that would report system temperatures, I have not found them particularly reliable, probably due to the constant changes in MoBos and sensors.

Everest just told me that the system temperature is 8C and the CPU is 30C. Room temperature is currently 22C, and my spot meter suggests that the system temperature is around 25C

Those figures are from the "overclock" section. If I go into the "sensor" section the temperatures jump around all over the place every few seconds like from 48C to 20C :eek:

I therefore do not trust Everest................it does not understand my sensors.

Your BIOS is likely to be more accurate because at least it was written for that specific MoBo and sensor array?

;)

Quote:

---

You seem to have one 80mm IN
with one 80mm + one 120mm OUT ??

---

That is correct. I know it's a massive inbalance in fans and airflow. But my case came stock with 2 fans, one side intake fan and 1 top outtake fan. And on the back is room for one 120mm fan. My case doesn't have any spots for front fans, if it does then it would be extremely impossible to install them seeing as the drive bays are in the way...

Quote:

---

I never buy boxed packages. I buy an OEM processor and a decent heatsinkand fan, and use Artic or Antec silver compound.

---

I wouldn't either, it was simply a matter of running out of money lol.



Tim axe, thanks for the suggestions, what do you think about this?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...633552&CatId=0

Check this Heatsink/Waterblock Roundup @ Overclockers.com out. They have a CPU die simulator and test some HSF's on that - http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/

But anyways it looks like that Thermaltake can handle the load of your processor. Just pick up some Arctic Silver 5 (AS5 - nihil mentioned it too) and learn how to apply that to the CPU core / HSF. After a couple of cycles of running the computer hard for a good while, leaving it off until it cools, and then running it again, it will set and temps will improve a bit more before they stabalize. It's good stuff.


And what foxy mentions is good advise too. If you're pulling more air out than you're pushing in, your case is essentially under a weak vacum...and it'll try to pull air in from anywhere. Generally this just results in dust trapped in all the nooks and crannies of the computer case, which is a PITA to clean. Balance is key :)

Cheers.

I know how to apply thermal paste, I don't know what to use to clean the gunk from the thermalpad though... What do you recomend?

Thermalpads I hear are a PITA. I don't have expirence with them myself.

But I found this stuff (ArctiClean) that looks like it'll work good. Review here. Never used it before since I never had Thermalpads to remove (only AS5 thermal paste, and I just wiped most of that off and reapplied - it's still all AS5 for my purposes).

I hear Isopropyl alcohol and Acetone also work, but the above review claims it doesn't work for thermal pads, and only works on thermal paste...

Yes, I generally use isopropyl alcohol and/or acetone (nail varnish remover), For more serious stuff you could try automobile brake pad cleaner or even Girling brake fluid (does a good job on car paintwork doesn't it? :cool: )

I still have tricoethylene 1-1-1, although that is a naughty substance now. And carbon tetrachloride :eek: (the old dry cleaning fluid)

Just take your time and apply the solvents with a cotton-bud or q-tip or whatever you guys call those things?



AND MAKE DAMN SURE THAT WHEREVER YOU ARE DOING IT IS WELL VENTILATED!

:)

Thanks for the tips nihil, I have some isopropyl alcohol for cleaning my printer feed wheels...

I'll probably use a q-tip, what should I expect? Will it kind of just come off with the q-tip? Or will I have to scrub and stuff... I'm sure I don't want to scrub, I want to be as gentle as possible, this thing cost me 200 bucks lol...

Good Afternoon,

Ditto on the Artic Silver and maximum air flow. Dropped my temps from 52 to 40. 12 degrees! However, a mistake I made about a year ago was to use a fan from an old power suppy as an exhaust fan. It sucked up more power than was anticipated and would cause occasional system freezes. We spend eons trying to troubleshoot the cause of the freezes. So make sure you get the right fans.

Hot Dang, you still got some "Trik" Nihil? We used it for cleaning electric motors, contacts, and the like. You can get cancer from that stuff just by reading the label! It's been banned on 3 earths thus far :) But, thats the greatest stuff ever made -

Folks I need to reiterate what Nihil has said: "...MAKE DAMN SURE THAT WHEREVER YOU ARE DOING IT IS WELL VENTILATED!" Some of the really good solvents will give you a dirt nap real quick if you don't heed that warning.

~cheers~

Hi The Duck

DON'T SCRUB THE PROCESSOR :eek:

Tim~ has pointed you to some stuff that should work, although I have never used it. I would just try gently removing any residue from the processor with isopropyl alcohol. If that does not work, try acetone. Then get some of that stuff, although they should have to say what is in it for safety compliance reasons? maybe just check out a bottle in the store?

;)

Alright, I'll be sure to clean it near an open window lol. I'm going to tiger direct right now to get some thermal paste and the heatsink and fan I brouth up earlier in the thread...

When I was cleaning my printer with the isopropyl alcohol I accidently inhaled a ton of it and got light headed lol... I won't make that mistake again...

Ok, well the tiger direct guy talked me out of buying a new heatsink and fan, saying it wouldn't help those processors much anyway because they run so hot, but because they run so hot intels in general, and especially mine, has a great resistance to heat, and my best bet would be to just move the computer to a cooler room, because my computer is in my room and it's a real hot room... So he said just take the thermal pad gunk off and put some thermal paste on, so I bought the thermal paste they had, he said it was the best one tiger direct has...

So I went home and took the thermal pad gunk off (which was a pain in the ass, I pretty much HAD to scrub it off) and slapped some of the paste on and now my computer runs about 3 degrees hotter... I new the intels had a high resisitance to heat, I just don't want my processor running at 55C, it heats my room up like no other... I actually sweat while using it lol. It looks like I'll have to buy some better stuff at new egg, TD has let me down...

Hello The Duck,

I've had a similar experience with one of my boxes. I tried changing the thermal paste, then adding a case fan to the back, even changing the heatsink and fan. You already are in the right direction for trying to cool it down a few degrees. As far as software temp programs go I don't trust them mainly because most of the boxes I've used that had it installed for one or on the BIOS don't tell you the truth they do guess at it. Usually you can go get a cheap temp probes you know like the ones that have a lcd display and a wire with a temp probe on the end of it, and use it to tell you the temp on your system. Also before you go and buy anything else goto www.crazypc.com and take a look at their cooling products its a whole lot more than what Tigerdirect carrys. Most of those techs to count think 99.98% of the time that you don't use your pc for a very long period of time. Keeping you rig in the coolest room of the house helps along with a fan going will keep you from sweating to death while your trying to play it. Something that you might want to try is if you have a extra hole for a 120mm fan and its just holes try taping a piece of cardboard over it or getting rid of the 80mm, covering the hole for it and using a 120mm instead on the back spot blowing in and the other 120mm out. Maybe even a chipset cooler. You don't have to buy rounded cables either you can make the ones you have rounded with some electrical tape and a hobby knife, and if you have a lot of drives a fan at the top doesn't help you a whole lot seeing that you have the PSU and all of the wire and drives in the way before it even reachs your moterboard.Of course when you try to get your pc cooler most of it is in fact just well researched experimentation. If you just get sick of the noise of the fans there is always watercooling. I hope that I was helpful to you. If you want anymore sites about cooling products like those at crazypc pm me and I will help you out with that. Sorry about the novel of a reply.

TinManModder, I appreciate your help but the 2 posts you replied to are 6-7 months old :)...

When I applied the thermal paste I really didn't do much more... My computer runs fine... But I will be getting a new heatsink and fan for my processor and probably some kind of fan that goes into my PCI slot to help cool my video card... I might also add some kind of hdd cooler as well... Overall my budget will be about 100 bucks... Now I just need to get 100 bucks :p, spare money very rarely comes my way :p...

I can't believe how much the ThermalRight XP90 HSF went up in price. I was just at a computer store and saw it for 57,000 Yen, and looked it up on NewEgg for ~$50. I thought it was a good deal until I saw this thread floating belly-up like a goldfish in a small tank and realized that HSF used to sell for $37. Man the scene has changed a lot. And now I need those XP90's...

BTW, my somewhat new overseas HP Proliant server w/ 3.2GHz P4 processor runs that thing *cool* at low RPMs. It has a monster aluminum HSF that sucks air right out the back of the case with nice ducting. Unfortunately the hot-plug SATA drive bays are uncooled (and the drives are damn expensive in their trays), but this thing is tight on the connection I have in Japan. It may eventually be the off-site storage solution for my photography, or my web/file-server for close friends who end up with slashdotted content.


ANyways, get a HSF with more surface area than the stock one. The ThermalRight XP90 would have been the way to got at $37. Enough mass to be a fair heatsink, enough surface area that a decent fan could transfer lots of that heat to the air to be expelled. BTW, I didn't catch what the Tiger dude said in your post - but I'm suprised his sales pitch wanted to sell the paste more than the HSF. The pastes are cheap to produce, and the only ones that I consider "good" (as in their contents are verified/correct) are OCZ & ArcticSilver.

Yes your processor has the metal thing on top, but with how thin the material is there is very little thermal resistance and the heat transfers easily. To be honest even motor oil or saran wrap (wouldn't recommend it due to thickness) could likely pass enough heat from the processor to the heatsinks to operate, because it is so thin. AS-5 is a good interface material, but at the super-thin applications involved in mating the processor to the HSF lots of things would work fine. Such as the paste (only a 3c difference - the thermal resistance numbers are probably vastly different though for this small difference in temp). Just make it super-thin - a credit card or other plastic card could thin it up. A lot of stuff that shouldn't work, actually works due to the incredible thinness of the material application.


Your machine can run cooler with a better HSF and good airflow to get the hot air out. If you're looking at replacing that, you might as well try a better interface material - it wouldn't hurt.


Right now I'm needing to replace my heatsinks & fans (both of them) because I put it into a new case and even with my both of my AthlonXP-M's at 2.4GHz (133x18 - 1.75v) they get too hot and my computer becomes unstable. I'm convinved I could run the machine at 2x 2.5GHz (18x139) if I could load drop temps by 20 degrees (60c + 70c currently = 40c + 50c goal) but that involves a lot of work - with the Vantec Aeroflow HSF as the first thing to change. Then comes ducting to/from the processor, and finally more fans to move more air. But at $50 per HSF, I'll need more research before going with the XP90's...maybe water? :drool:

Tim_axe

Stop pussyfooting around.............be a MAN ............go and buy a peltier, you know you need one.......... better get a can of windscreen de-icer as well. After all, you will need some way of getting rid of the icicles?

And don't anyone dare say "peltiers are cool"......OK



:p :D :cool:

I just did an analysis of the costs, and water would be some $180 or so. And I just found the Thermalright SI-97A for $35 ( http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thsiforamdat.html ). It turns out the XP-90 is NOT compatible with AthlonXP, but that SI-97A is compatible. So I just saved a headache & found a cheaper source. I'm picking up my cooling for about $80-$90 (remember those fans) once I get back to Idaho.

And I'm having fun in Japan. See my blog for some pictures: http://photogblogs.com/blogs/timaxe/default.aspx

Specificially this night scape from the 31st story of the appartment where my new server lives: http://photogblogs.com/photos/timaxe/picture1218.aspx

Cheers & goodnight.