Setting up a domain?

Hi,

I've searched around on Google and on AO, but the only proper thread relating to "setting up a domain" is a tut I found (here), but that is for Windows. As I have been employed to set up an ethernet network in an office, and I'm looking to convert all the computers there to Ubuntu Linux (over time), and I would like the network to be a domain rather than a workgroup (administering the domain from a Linux box).

Now, as far as I know, domains are more secure than workgroups, because you can do things like locking-down computers and stop users changing system settings (this only comes from my knowledge of a Windows domain). Now, what I would like to know is, how do I set up a domain from a Linux box (would Ubuntu be alright to set it up?), how I can set the permissions for config files on computers connected to the domain (all would be Ubuntu), how to set up a DNS server (I think you need to do this for your own domain), and all the other stuff like this. How would I be able to implement the server if all the computers were connected to a router? Would I need to connect the "domain" box to the router, and then have all the other computers connected to that one (via a hub or something)?

You can also attempt to convince me on why NOT to go for a domain and just use a simple workgroup! ;) Remember, in an office, I would like the network to be reliable, secure, etc...Although I think that stuff's pretty obvious! :D Thanks in advance, and I hope I haven't confused you!

J_K9

Hi J_K9,

Hope these help...

http://www.linux.com/howtos/Domain-4.shtml
Linux.com - Setting Up Your New Domain Mini-HOWTO.: Obtaining Your Connection

http://resource.dedicatedcentral.com...cle.php?id=036
DedicatedCentral Knowledge Base .: Setting up a domain on Linux/UNIX

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a
Setting Up Your New Domain Mini-HOWTO.

http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/Domain.html
Linux Online - Setting Up Your New Domain Mini-HOWTO.

Eg ;)

Thanks eg! To the rescue once again ;) The third and fourth links are actually the same tut, but that's the one I'm going to go with, as it looks the most "complete" :D What are your views on Domains and Workgroups though? Which one do you think is more secure, which one will be more of a pain in the a$$ to set up *cough*_domain_*cough*, with a domain is it true I can lock-down computers (-possible in Ubuntu?) whereas in a workgroup I can't, etc... :D Thanks,

J_K9

Hi J_K9,

Errrrr...you don't want my opinion :D...like I said before...for that kind of help you're going to have to wait till someone more computer smart than me comes along :D...this isn't my area of expertise.

Eg ;)

Don't be too harsh on yourself eg....how did you manage to get 1224 posts in 7 months whereas I've only got 169 in 13 months!? ;):D

J_K9

P.S If anyone can answer the questions please feel free to do so :p

Hi J_K9,

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how did you manage to get 1224 posts in 7 months whereas I've only got 169 in 13 months!?

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Mostly Post Whoring :D

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Don't be too harsh on yourself eg

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I basically help by proving links...saves everyone from getting bad advice :D

Eg ;)

Workgroups are more of a pain in the ass to maintain. Domains are more of a pain to set up. The best practice is to do what you know. Don't attempt Active Directory on a simple domain model unless you have setup and administered an AD domain before.

Document Everything. Rule of thumb: there is 100 ways to do 1 thing. Let the next guy know your methodology and "Method to your madness"

Always consider your lusers. If you introduce *nix to windows users, it doesn't matter how secure or open your new network is - the lusers will revolt, unless you're the "Big Boss"; and even then you will have to start looking for new employees.

Always helpful when you post two links of the same tut - shows it's widely used :D

Also, if anyone could actually answer the questions, I'd be very greatful. ;)
Who knows, you may even get some greenies!

edit: Before eg goes of being a post whoring link provider, I'd like to say there are no greenies for him :p

edit2: dinowuff, thanks for your post. Active Directory, um...??? Ya lost me! Don't worry about the nix thing, that's already been covered in a nice long entertaining thread! Ya so back to the questions.....Thanks for the pain in the butt thing, I'll keep that in mind! --You seem to know quite a lot about domains, maybe some more answers for some greenies?

J_K9

P.S I love bribery!
P.P.S Please don't sue me!

Hey Hey,

When I saw the title of this thread the first thing I thought of was domains, like registering a domain, setting up DNS and servers (SMTP, POP3, HTTP, FTP, SSH) and getting it all going.... Then I read the first post and I see it's a windows Active Directory domain... Then I see the links (First Domain setup) and then I see that you're going to follow the Mini How-To which follows the first line of reasoning... not the second..

Windows Domains and Workgroups are completely different from the domain setup in that how-to.

Linux computers can be joined to a Windows Domain (See Samba for more info) however you'll still require a Domain Controller (Linux can't operate as a DC)..

If you are going with Linux desktops, I'm guessing you won't want Windows servers either.

Linux itself is a multi-user environment but it's not designed the same way that Windows is for networking.... While windows has Active Directory.... Linux doesn't have something that's fully comparable... AD and Domains provide you with a way to manage users, file shares, patches, inventory, etc.... It's pretty much unmatched in the Linux world from what I've seen.

However, Linux doesn't leave you high and dry....

You can setup NFS to provide your network shares with user specific permissions... You can setup NIS to provide a user management system...

DNS is a service that can run off any computer... You need to setup and configure bind... and it's not Point and Click like MS DNS... it requires knowledge of DNS inner workings... or at least a good working template...

I partially agree with dinowuff.... except that Domains aren't a pain in the ass to setup and administrate... they simplify life... (in my opinion anyways)... Everything else that he said is dead on...

I don't mean to insult... but I wouldn't think you are the best person to setup a companies network... you should be setting up what you know... You don't even have a full comprehension of what a domain is.. You know it exists and that it provides additional security benefits... You need to do a lot more research.. and this is a great start.... but I would turn this down or watch someone else do the install.. back off so it's done properly...

I can provide more details on anything you don't understand in here.. or anything else in general... just let me know.

Peace
HT

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Who knows, you may even get some greenies!

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:confused: :D :p

Is it JUST me - or is he serious - LOL
green from me for a DAMMMMMMMM good LOL, even cosidered ROF, although I believe that MAO hasn't happened YET.

HT - Thank you for you intricately long, professional, captivating post. No offence taken btw - the only reason I actually want to set up the network is because it will allow me to discover quite a lot about domains, how to set them up, administer them, etc...After looking at your post, I have come to the conclusion that I'm not going to set up a domain - either get a "proper technician" (yeah right, the guys over here don't know sh1te) to set up the domain, or I could just go for a workgroup. Plus, workgroups aren't that bad right? And I know quite a lot about Samba now when it comes to workgroups (many thanks to Ubuntuguide and the Samba docs).

So, I'm guessing a workgroup wouldn't be too bad right?

Oh, and foxy: I was kinda joking at first, but if you look closely, I just gave HT some greenies :p Just for laughs...

J_K9

P.S Foxy, d'you mind if I save the France pic in your sig? - Damn funny!

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Originally posted here by HTRegz


I partially agree with dinowuff.... except that Domains aren't a pain in the ass to setup and administrate... they simplify life... (in my opinion anyways)

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HT That's what I ment. Domains are a pain to set up but (if done half ass right) easier to administrate.

Indeed they do simplify life.

Edit: Domains are harder to set up initialy than workgroups

How are they easier to administer? Please explain :D Many thanks,

J_K9

simplified: to administrator a workgroup you (most probably) need to visit each machine on the network.

on a domain you can administrate all nodes from a central location.

I could really go on and on. DHCP on workgroups almost always end in ip conflicts. Static IP's are a pain after 15 PC's.

in a workgroup every user needs to be manually added to everyone else's PC for security/access issues. logon scripts are local.\

on and on and on

Well, the good thing is that there are only about 7 computers in the actual office (it's a small company), so I'm guessing a workgroup would probably be more suited to this environment? Plus, I already know how to set up a workgroup, and the only way to crack the network internally is to be physically inside the office, in other words breaking into the office itself. From the outside, it's the same whether you have a domain or a workgroup, as long as you have a good firewall and other security features on your router. As far as the company's employees go, none of them are even computer savvy enough to be able to use the command-line! lol. Therefore, a workgroup shouldn't be a problem - agreed? Thanks again,

J_K9

7 comupters?

No Brainer Workgroup

Good stuff! Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread! And thank you dino for helping me come to a conclusion ;)

J_K9

<offtopic>

I was just wondering: I currently have a Linksys WAG54G v1.2, and I'm having a lot of trouble getting SMTP working. IMAP works like a charm, but SMTP has refused to work. Now, if I got the router for the office, how would I go about solving this problem? Many of the employees need to send and check their email on a regular basis, and if SMTP will be a problem, then it just can't be done. I was thinking about port forwarding, but then you can only forward ports to one IP address.

How can I make it possible for all the clients to use SMTP? Under the "Application and Gaming" tag in my router's settings, there are four subheadings: "Single Port Forwarding, Port Range Forwarding, Port Triggering, DMZ". The port forwarding ones are only able to forward to one address. Could someone please inform me on how to allow the SMTP to work in the network, as it's currently being blocked by the router...

My workaroud (not sure if this works):

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ADSL line --> Router --> Box 1, running IPCop --> Networked Computers

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Would this work? If it did, all the networked computers would use "Box 1 as their gateway, and Box 1 would be connected to the router, which in turn is connected to the ADSL line. I'm guessing this would be quite good because I would have a hardware and software firewall in place - double protection! Also, the router could forward SMTP to Box 1, and then the networked computers could use Box 1 as their gateway and be able to access SMTP. Would this be too complicated? Is it possible? If it is, would you recommend using IPCop or something else (like Coyote, etc..)? Thanks in advance,

J_K9

</offtopic>

for checking mail the POP protocol is used (Post Office Protocol) SMTP is used for sending mail (Simple mail transfer protocol).

if users are sending/receiving mail using outside mail servers nothing needs to be mapped.

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
for checking mail the POP protocol is used (Post Office Protocol) SMTP is used for sending mail (Simple mail transfer protocol).

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I know....;) Sorry for not making myself clear enough, yes the problem is when I'm tring to send email using SMTP.

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if users are sending/receiving mail using outside mail servers nothing needs to be mapped.

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That's what I always thought, after all aren't incoming connection filtered by consumer grade firewalls (routers), but none of the outgoing ones are? Then why does POP3/IMAP work perfectly and SMTP doesn't? Shouldn't it be the opposite way round? Well, I'd like to be able to fix this problem, no matter what it is.

I'm going to call Linksys up about my router (whose WLAN now doesn't work), so maybe I should ask them about why the SMTP doesn't work, while I'm there? Thanks again,

J_K9

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Originally posted here by J_K9
I know....;) Sorry for not making myself clear enough, yes the problem is when I'm tring to send email using SMTP.
That's what I always thought, after all aren't incoming connection filtered by consumer grade firewalls (routers), but none of the outgoing ones are? Then why does POP3/IMAP work perfectly and SMTP doesn't? Shouldn't it be the opposite way round? Well, I'd like to be able to fix this problem, no matter what it is.

I'm going to call Linksys up about my router (whose WLAN now doesn't work), so maybe I should ask them about why the SMTP doesn't work, while I'm there? Thanks again,

J_K9

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Hey Hey,

Have you checked with your ISP? Especially since it's a DSL line... A lot of bigger ISPs are filtering SMTP so that you must use your own port... A router wouldn't be blocking an outbound SMTP connection (not a home one anyways)... so the odds are your ISP will only allow you to connect to it's SMTP servers...

If this is the case there is some mail software that will let you pick another mail server so that you can route everything through your ISPs mail servers...

Peace,
HT

That's a pretty good point...that's great! Thank you! I didn't think about it, but the email accounts are actually normal dialup ones, so maybe the ISP only allows someone connected to the internet through that dialup connection to access their email, but not other people. I'll ring them up, see what's going on ;) Thank you so much! I'll report back in a few hours!

J_K9

if you haven't called yet you can see if this is the case by using netcat or telnet to try and connect to your mail server and observing the response you get. as an example on an aol account i have every time i try to nc to my mail server i found myself connected to an aol proxy. you can find out if your being denyed or dropped...whatever

I thought that IMAP was a 'version' of SMTP in that it leaves a copy of the mail on the server, which would suit commercial users as you may need to logon to a different PC to check things, and with IMAP you would still be able to D/L your mail ?????

[quote[Internet Message Access Protocol, a protocol for retrieving e-mail messages. The latest version, IMAP4, is similar to POP3 but supports some additional features. For example, with IMAP4, you can search through your e-mail messages for keywords while the messages are still on the mail server.[/quote]Dunno...I got that from Google! ;)

I haven't tried telnetting to the SMTP server yet because the computer I'd like to access the emails is currently unable to access the interne - I had to reinstall the PCMCIA wireless card software and because I only have SP1, it isn't compatible with WPA-TKIP encryption! :( Called up Linksys, they're gonna send me the WPA utility via email.

Thanks for all your help guys!

J_K9