Hi.
As a worldwide community of security, what are your opinions about The Cult Of The Dead Cow?
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Hi.
As a worldwide community of security, what are your opinions about The Cult Of The Dead Cow?
http://www.cultdeadcow.com/cms/about_us.php3
I think they are cool ..... aren't they?
They created BO I belive, a rather nasty trojan, one of the first out the door along with NetBus. Could say they kinda started the whole trojan buisness.
If they are the ones responsible for releasing a trojan into the general population then they're useless bags of ____! Deserving as little admiration as a terrorist and are in fact the internet equivalent of terrorists.
If you admire them then you probably admired Hitler, Stalin, and your heroes are Bin Laden and Microsoft.
Eg ;)
If they're guilty...may a dead cow fall on their stinkin' heads and ____ in their soup...if they're not...disregard this post.
Dirty little buggers :
http://www.cultdeadcow.com/cms/main.php3Quote:
September 07, 2005
BO2k Integrates FU rootkit
Posted by Myles Long at 08:26 PM CDT | Comments (9)
Sure, this isn't new, but it's still cool. I'm quoting hoglund who's quoting novice222 (thanks to Hardwire for the heads up on this, too...man, I'm all about name-dropping tonight):
"Back Orifice 2000, the world famous backdoor program for Windows systems, now includes a rootkit plugin based on the FU rootkit technology.
The crosspost is from bo2k.sourceforge.net (Novice222):
Monday, August 8 2005 - This will allow you to almost totally hide the bo2k server. It will hide both the bo2k process and file from windows, you just won't know its there. Its based on the FU rootkit written by fuzen_op (www.rootkit.com) and works by dropping a small driver into the windows directory which directly manipulates the windows kernel. (Thanks to 'Chaos' for the driver help)
The plugin will also allow you to hide any other processes, files or directories that you wish either for that one remote session or permanently.
The plugin is available on the Development page: http://bo2k.com/Development/
The tutorial has a section on Rootkit to explain the use. Any comments suggestions bugs etc should can be documented here or on the bo2k forum:
http://bo2k.sourceforge.net/forum/"
Oh hang on a bit - they might be all those nasty things you call them, but take a step back for a minute, they are also pretty good thinkers & developers, albeit for the wrong reasons.
Without them and their sort, security professionals would be sitting on their backsides believing the internet is Utopia and all is well in cyberspace - now these people come along and throw a curly one into the mix, suddenly the security industry has to sit up, take notice and defeat them - end result - more secure operating systems for all of us to use..... hey Windows 95 and the Linux kernel 1.0 isn't all that secure after all !!
I am not taking away the fact that this can be a right royal P.I.T.A when they release a new virus/trojan and if you were a sysadmin for a network that gets taken down - yeah, you have every right to scream, yell and curse and want to mete out cruel, evil, violent death on them. At the end of the day when all is fixed you have a more secure network and you have no doubt learnt something from the experience apart from the fact that Prozac and Valium really do work !!
I don't want anyone to think that I accept this as an excuse for them releasing crap onto the internet - but face it, its a fact of life like death and taxes - its going to happen, like it or not these ceative little menaces are here to stay. Its a case of being prepared, developing a good recovery plan for when it does happen.
On the bright side, they are creating thinkers and developers on the good guys side as well and spawning a whole new generation of security professionals and software developers that need to think outside the box when creating new OS's or applications and take security seriously - so not all is doom and gloom.
Evil, without a doubt but like a lot of things in this world, a necessary evil.
Hi Phat_Penguin,
Let's look closely at what you just said with a few substitutions...
" Oh hang on a bit - they might be all those nasty things you call them, but take a step back for a minute, they are also pretty good thinkers & developers, albeit for the wrong reasons.
Without them and their sort, security professionals would be sitting on their backsides believing the Country is Utopia and all is well in America - now these people come along and throw a curly one into the mix, suddenly the security industry has to sit up, take notice and defeat them - end result - more secure living for all of us..... hey the US Government and the Homeland Security isn't all that secure after all !!
I am not taking away the fact that this can be a right royal Disaster when they release a new Bomb and if you were a Governor for a State that gets taken down - yeah, you have every right to scream, yell and curse and want to mete out cruel, evil, violent death on them. At the end of the day when all is fixed you have a more secure Country and you have no doubt learnt something from the experience apart from the fact that Prozac and Valium really do work !!
I don't want anyone to think that I accept this as an excuse for them exploding bombs onto our cities - but face it, its a fact of life like death and taxes - its going to happen, like it or not these creative little menaces are here to stay. Its a case of being prepared, developing a good recovery plan for when it does happen.
On the bright side, they are creating thinkers and developers on the good guys side as well and spawning a whole new generation of security professionals and reconstruction developers that need to think outside the box when creating new cities and landscapes and take security seriously - so not all is doom and gloom.
Evil, without a doubt but like a lot of things in this world, a necessary evil. "
they are terrorists...if they were freedom fighters and if they were as smart as you say they are they would spend more time in developing them and figure out a way to ' target ' their trojans and not just free release them.
Eg ;)
Now now .. putting words into my mouth .. tisk tisk ..
They are just annoying little scote's on the face of the internet, but unfortunately they are a part of life - but through their misguided efforts they do make others lift their games and not rest on the laurels - but to compare them with terrorists is probably a little harsh - annoying turds, you are promoting them above their station in life !!!
Who is to say the really smart ones (real terrorists) are not doing exactly what you say - "spend more time in developing them and figure out a way to ' target ' their trojans and not just free release them" - who would really know ? - now thats scary because no one would know until it was too late - they would destroy the infrustructure from right under your feet long before you realised what was happening.
Like I said, annoying little scrote's thats all and whether we like it or not they do keep people on their toes ... which ever way you want to put a spin on it - thats my arguement in a nutshell.
I think the American psyche (read media) is putting too many "terrorists" in the one basket - everyone who seems to do naughty things these days is suddenly a "terrorist" ... its a brand that seems to be given to anyone who doesn't toe the corporate, mainstream line - people need to be careful about over-using the word or label - it tends to lose its impact when overdone.
I have heard it used to describe kids downloading songs/movies off the internet, give me a break !!! I see a terrorist as a fanatical zealot (of any persuasion) who is prepared to sacrifice someone elses life (not their own 'cos they are too gutless) to further their own demented cause. Anyway this digresses from the original post and getting off subject - maybe we take it over to Cosmos and continue :)
Please dont put words in my mouth and see this as America bashing, its not, its just a perception from the far side of the world - for which the media is probably more to blame than any person/govt/corporation in particular !!
Anyway have a good day - must fly and support my old football team that has made it through to the Grand Final
:)
Hi Phat_Penguin,
The last thing I inferred was ' American bashing '...don't know you well enough to conclude that ;)
And congrats on your team making it to the finals!
I was not suggesting that these cyberidiots are terrorists in the true sense of terrorism ( targeting innocent civilian populations ) but that, in essence, as I mentioned, they are the internet equivalents ( as they target innocent civilian populations )...the potential for harm is there...the potential for loss of life is there too ...should they ever become more focused...
my intention was not to put words into ' your ' mouth but to simply apply what you said in a different way :D
peace,
Eg ;)
Well at first I didnt even know that these guys were real, I mean Cult of the dead cow just sounds like BS to me lol..but oviously they are real and causing lots of problems which is never good but like it has been said above, since they cause problems they keep security professionals employed.
Hi The Texan,
But that's like saying arsonists help keep firemen employed, or criminals keep police employed, or cancer keeps doctors employed, or in less extreme cases...
litterers keep street cleaners employed, or the homeless keeps hostel workers employed, etc...
to say that these people keep security workers employed and are therefore beneficial then...let's encourage more mayhem by paying them to create chaos to create even more employment, and to further strengthen our security...
and while we're at it let's not use garbage cans, and infect people with cancer, and create as much crime as we can while setting buildings on fire...so everyone can have job security...
does that make sense to you?
Eg ;)
Yes Eg, i see your point and just to be clear im not defending these people and what they do but, if they didnt exsist and no one ever created any problems on the net what would IT security people do? what job would they have? do you see my point??
Hi The Texan,
I do see your point...really...they simply would have to find other jobs...personally, that would be a good thing...if there were no cyberidiots, no criminals, no fires, no homeless, no litterers, etc...as far as I'm concerned they could all get new jobs...
albeit, that expectation is highly unrealistic...
nevertheless, to say that we somehow benefit from the existence of cyberidiots, criminals, etc...is a falicy...for if they did not exist there would be no need of their counterparts...and therefore no need or desire to know how to combat them...the whole concept would not exist to us...and we would be consequently far better off.
They are not a benefit but a curse, and their counterparts are brought to bear as a means to restrain them...not to benefit from them.
Eg ;)
Hi there Egaladeist read this link and you'll see why they created this tool in the first place :
[1] Back Orifice
A program can be created with good intentions but all it takes is someone to use it for something that it was not intended to be used for ...
E=mc² ......
Hi AS,
I read the link...and as I said in my first post...
I never said they were guilty...I just said 'if ' they were guilty. ;)Quote:
If they are the ones responsible for releasing a trojan into the general population then they're useless bags of ____! Deserving as little admiration as a terrorist and are in fact the internet equivalent of terrorists.
If you admire them then you probably admired Hitler, Stalin, and your heroes are Bin Laden and Microsoft.
Eg
If they're guilty...may a dead cow fall on their stinkin' heads and ____ in their soup...if they're not...disregard this post.
I agree...ethics/morality is highly dependant upon ( but not exclusive to ) intent...if their intent was to benefit that's one thing...and if their intent was malicious that's another thing.
Eg ;)
Quote:
You must spread your AntiPoints around before giving it to Agent_Steal again.
Well they still would have a job Tex they would just have one less thing to worry about ....Quote:
Yes Eg, i see your point and just to be clear im not defending these people and what they do but, if they didnt exist and no one ever created any problems on the net what would IT security people do? what job would they have? do you see my point??
Dont worry Egaladeist that thought never crossed my mind ...Quote:
I never said they were guilty...I just said 'if ' they were guilty.
I totally agree, releasing trojans has caused nothing but trouble.Quote:
If they are the ones responsible for releasing a trojan into the general population then they're useless bags of ____! Deserving as little admiration as a terrorist and are in fact the internet equivalent of terrorists.
It's a mixed picture, but since they release their "programs" freely,
rather than use them secretly to steal H-bomb secrets, they are
just like any other "security professionals" who publish info about
weaknesses in Windows. A little over the top, releasing working trojans,
but oh well....