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Thoughts, anyone?
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http://www.modoracle.com/?page=http:...8275028C15618F
Thoughts, anyone?
Honestly, I think these statements have probably been taken out of context, but I didn't need evidence of Bush claiming conversations with God to think he's a nut job. I already got that impression. :bigsmile:
It would not suprise me if Bush and some of his supporters have started this war partly on religious grounds too. Of course, the Islam has always been considered a hostile religion to many western countries and I don't think this will change in the future unless some drastic changes take place in many of those Islamic countries.
Of course, the most important thing that should happen is that countries (all countries!) start separating religion and politics and just take away the control that many religious leaders have over the Political aspects. This applies as well to the USA as to Iran/Iraq. Of course, freedom of religion is pretty important too.
But the most important thing of course is that countries aren't dominated by just a single religion. The USA is dominated by Christianity, just like Iraq/Iran are both dominated by Islam. There need to be more acceptance of other religions in all these countries.
We don't need no fanatics in this world anyway. And if you think that Christianity doesn't train fanatics then think again and take a look at Northern Ireland, where two Christian religious fractions were having fun with killing each other for quite a few decades...
The war in Iraq is about oil
Bushy poo is trying to justify his reasons for going into there in the first place .....cause originally it was all based on the WMD lie.
Now he is still trying to get support...by raising the threat of a terroist attack in NY and continually instilling fear into the American general public.
And by getting the "moral majority" on his side...the religous right...my gods better then your god bullsh*t.
Hes so full of sh*t...it comes out of his mouth!!!!
My .02 cdn...
:cool:
MLF
God told me he only talks to crazy people.
Hey Hey,
God told me to STFU and stay outta this one.. or at least that's what I'd do if I was smart.
I really think Bush is crazy enough that he would believe that God spoke to him, prolly told him to build an Ark as well and put 2 of every animal on it.
I find it funny that he's fighting religious fanatics yet most people don't see what a religious fanatic he is.
I saw a shirt last night for one of my favourite albums and forgot how classic the quote on it was.
It's the NOFX War on Errorism shirt and it's got a picture of Bush with his nose and mouth painted up like a clown. Then on back is the quote "Somewhere in Texas there is a village without it's idiot"
Perhaps a new law should be passed since there should be seperation of church and state, any government official who thinks they speak with God is immediately impeached.
Peace,
HT
Well...anytime you put Bush and Dick together you're bound to have problems. :D
Somebody had to say it! :D
Eg, i was gonna actually post something of worth here cuz i actually like Bush for the most part lol but once i read your post above, i fell into laughter and now i cant post anything useful
That was true up to a point,maybe up to late 70's then it became more about Drugs, and Money, and the selling of weapons.Quote:
And if you think that Christianity doesn't train fanatics then think again and take a look at Northern Ireland, where two Christian religious fractions were having fun with killing each other for quite a few decades...
Does anybody else remember when this started and Bush announced who the Axis of evil were and basically in the same breath announced a "crusade", hey it's been awhile but I am sure this did not go unnoticed by the people of Islam, grudges are hard to get over.(even ones going back to 11th to 14th century)The Holy Land
Holy ****! Bush is the masked prophet ... carries the prophecy of human salvation....
Well, if God chosen Bush to give him the salvation of human being .... hmmm, I don't need that salvation, I would better die starving ..... was god sober, when he delgated the tasks to him? :bigsmile:
Next time he will pretend to be the christ, I mean the second advent ... God help us! :D
A letter from osama
Quote:
The letter of instructions and requests outlines a four-stage plan, according to officials: First, expel American forces from Iraq. Second, establish a caliphate over as much of Iraq as possible. Third, extend the jihad to neighboring countries, with specific reference to Egypt and the Levant -- a term that describes Syria and Lebanon. And finally, war against Israel.
source
this story of bush being on a mission from god was started by a wahabbist...Quote:
SA: What can the West, especially the US, do to make the world more peaceful?
ABB: They have to stop fighting Islam. That's impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam.
SA: What if they persist?
ABB: We'll keep fighting them and they'll lose. The batil [falsehood] will lose sooner or later. I sent a letter to Bush. I said that you'll lose and there is no point for you [to fight us]. This [concept] is found in the Koran.
SA: Have you met Osama Bin Laden
ABB: No, no. I want to though. After my release, I hope I can meet him.
SA: Where will you find him?
ABB: If he still exists - but how could I? I have sympathy for his struggle. Osama is Allah's soldier. When I heard his story, I came to the conclusion that he's mujahid, a soldier of Allah.
SA: You will always be on his side?
ABB: His tactics and calculations may sometimes be wrong, he's an ordinary human being after all. I don't agree with all of his actions. Osama believes in total war. This concept I don't agree with. If this occurs in an Islamic country, the fitnah [discord] will be felt by Muslims. But to attack them in their country [America] is fine.
SA: So this fight will never end?
ABB: Never. This fight is compulsory. Muslims who don't hate America sin. What I mean by America is George Bush's regime. There is no iman [belief] if one doesn't hate America.
SA: How can the American regime and its policies change?
ABB: We'll see. As long as there is no intention to fight us and Islam continues to grow there can be peace. This is the doctrine of Islam. Islam can't be ruled by others. Allah's law must stand above human law. There is no [example] of Islam and infidels, the right and the wrong, living together in peace.
message for the infidels
I don't see the connection, Tedob...
The sources are Nabil Shaath (Palestine's ex-foreign minister) and Mahmous Abbas (prime minister), and an Israeli news paper that has the transcripts (Palestinians and Israeli's agreeing... must be some truth to it, then ;) )... where does Abu Bakar Bashir (ABB in your interview) come into play? He's in jail in Indonesia, and he's got nothing to do with Palestine... or am I missing something?
....ugh....Quote:
The most powerful governments in the world cooberated detailed information about Iraq having WMD. They are most likely being held in Syria and Lebanon for the time being. Additionally, what happens when you refuse UN weapons inspectors time-and-time again? Nobody blames the police officer that shoots a fleeing suspect/criminal who pretends to be weilding a weapon at the officers. Is this situation any different? Also, the Iraqi generals (currently enrolled) were telling us in under-the-table deals that they possessed them. If you don't take their word, then who's? The only reason why several key Security Council members didn't act is because of anti-US sentiment, and that the EU is the only thing more stagnant and useless than the UN.Quote:
Bushy poo is trying to justify his reasons for going into there in the first place .....cause originally it was all based on the WMD lie.
As to the topic, I have no doubt that belief colors some of Bush's actions. It would be impossible to claim to be a religous person and not. However, I find little evidence or proof substatiating anything said in the article. Like stated, probably taken far out of context. All-in-all, those who think Bush is a religious psycho will hold this article as fact, and those whom don't think he is a religious psycho will treat it as propaganda. Simple.
No weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq!
Doesn’t that bother anyone, knowing full well that the United States gave Iraq many thousands of artillery rounds along with tons of both chemical and biological material to put in then? When questioned about what happened to them all they could say is ‘hmm now what ever did we do with them?’
If anyone remembers the days before the Iraqi invasion you’ll recall that WMD was the last reason given for going to war. Bush tried to motivate the population be saying what a bad man Saddam is and how he sponsored terrorism (which he was and he did) but that didn’t quite do it
Bush did deceive the American people by not telling us the whole truth, by using euphemisms like “War on Terror” and trying to pretend that bring Iraq democracy and freeing the Iraqi people from tyranny was his primary objective. Look at a map and see what country is between Afghanistan and Iraq. Low and behold, it’s the country accused of killing all eight British soldiers in Iraq this year. I wonder why they did that!
Well at least he’s BEGINNING to the the truth. Not the whole truth but it’s a start:
Why is the reason for the civil war in Sudan never mentioned by our media. All we ever here about is how the Sudanese Government say’s it’s been too busy with the war to stop the atrocities being committed against the blacks while the Muslim north is pushing south converting or killing those in their path. You never here how Al-Quida and Jemaah Islamiyah are both working for the same goal of one Caliphate…from the Philippines through Africa and you never hear how the radical movement the Saudis funded has come home to roost.Quote:
We know the vision of the radicals because they've openly stated it -- in videos, and audiotapes, and letters, and declarations, and websites. First, these extremists want to end American and Western influence in the broader Middle East, because we stand for democracy and peace, and stand in the way of their ambitions. Al Qaeda's leader, Osama bin Laden, has called on Muslims to dedicate, quote, their "resources, sons and money to driving the infidels out of their lands." Their tactic to meet this goal has been consistent for a quarter-century: They hit us, and expect us to run. They want us to repeat the sad history of Beirut in 1983, and Mogadishu in 1993 -- only this time on a larger scale, with greater consequences.
Second, the militant network wants to use the vacuum created by an American retreat to gain control of a country, a base from which to launch attacks and conduct their war against non-radical Muslim governments. Over the past few decades, radicals have specifically targeted Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, and Jordan for potential takeover. They achieved their goal, for a time, in Afghanistan. Now they've set their sights on Iraq. Bin Laden has stated: "The whole world is watching this war and the two adversaries. It's either victory and glory, or misery and humiliation." The terrorists regard Iraq as the central front in their war against humanity. And we must recognize Iraq as the central front in our war on terror.
Third, the militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia. With greater economic and military and political power, the terrorists would be able to advance their stated agenda: to develop weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate Europe, to assault the American people, and to blackmail our government into isolation.
Some might be tempted to dismiss these goals as fanatical or extreme. Well, they are fanatical and extreme -- and they should not be dismissed. Our enemy is utterly committed. As Zarqawi has vowed, "We will either achieve victory over the human race or we will pass to the eternal life." And the civilized world knows very well that other fanatics in history, from Hitler to Stalin to Pol Pot, consumed whole nations in war and genocide before leaving the stage of history. Evil men, obsessed with ambition and unburdened by conscience, must be taken very seriously -- and we must stop them before their crimes can multiply.
Transcript
There never is just one reason we do anything...everything we do involves a lot of different reasons and motivations...some known to us, some embedded in us, and some as a result of those things around that influence us...
I'm sure oil was one reason Bush went into Iraq...but I seriously doubt it was the main or only reason.
Look at every President America has ever had and what they are remembered for...the ones that are best known are those who are known for their wars and/or assasinations.
Therefore if you want to be sure to be remembered...either start a war or get assasinated.
I can picture Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. sitting around the dinner table contemplating their Presidencies...and what they will be remembered for in the minds of the public and history...and George Sr. turning to his son and suggesting he finish the job in Iraq and explaining how easy it will be...a walk in the park...a day at the beach...and how a win in Iraq will expunge the memory of the failure in Afghanistan...and George Jr. just listening intently thinking that it's a 'great idea dad '.
Every President wants to leave his mark...his legacy on the Presidency...and there's only ever been two ways to do that...start a war...or die in office.
Eg ;)
If ol Stormin Norman had of been allowed to finish the job, this argument would not take place.(hindsight is always 20/20)
The cleanup in Afghanistan had the rest of the world's blessing (post 9/11), so that was a sucess then, or was it, instead of crushing the Al Queda, they disbursed them to surrounding countries (Pakistan) and as much as Pakistan remains an ally of Bush, how much of this alliance is in Pakistans own self interest, you can't tell me someone there does not know where Osama is.(left on back burner).
The failure to obtain the same cooperation against Saddam this time around is what concerns the establishment.stumbling along .If Bush and Blair had of had "Full Support" from the World Community,the result may have been different, the fact that this time around none of the Arab countries who were part of the first coalition were involved,is enlightening, so it became a war of US/UK against the Iraqui's (Arabs/Muslims) and that's how the rest of the Muslim world sees it.
Now the country is descending into civil war, and if you thought it was bad for the troops before, wait until this gets into full swing.Myself, I believe the problem is foreign interference, hate to say this, but maybe we should be looking at seriously curtailing Syria's and Iran's involvment.
As for WMD, there has to be some of this stuff around, where did it go, remember Saddam was able to use it against the Kurds back when the US let him of his leash.So to say it's in Syria is a possibility. A lot of the original Batthist members have ties with Syria.
Ok, this is one of those "I read only the topic line and decided to post" responses, for what it's worth:
God didn't tell George to invade, his dad did. The greatest military blunder of the 20th century was Bush I refusing to invade Baghdad and capture Saddam the first time around when we had all our resources in place. He cited his reasons for refusal to the responses from our arabic 'allies' during that war, and their positions behind our own lines. Understand 2 things here: First, in the mind of a Texan, daddy's mistakes are something every good son should try to erase. Second, we ain't dealin with the brightest bulbs in the box here. Of course George is gonna tell you God told him - ANYTHING but the truth, which is that the sole reason he ran for the presidency was to eradicate daddy's mammoth blunder.
You should also keep in mind that Desert Storm never officially ended - it was a 'cease fire' that was enforced all these years until Dubya picked up the gauntlet yet again for the sake of 'prosecuting terrorism'. Once again we get around to the idea of waging war against a concept - it doesn't work, but it surely gives one an excuse to attack anyone, anywhere, anytime with congressional approval, simply by citing that they're terrorist, or that they harbor terrorists. To me it's kind of like trying to go to war against a corporation - where do you attack? Point to its capital city and it's army? Where are its military targets? How do you eradicate it without hurting your own or your friend's properties as well?
Ok, we whacked Afghanistan - that needed to be done and still needs to be finished.
Then we whacked Iraq - which really didn't need to be done, yet it did just to satisfy W.
I anticipate either Syria (sp?) or Korea next, but we've gotta free up some troops from Iraq first and let things calm down a bit more.
Aside to Eggman -
I disagree but only slightly as I had to dig out the wayback machine to find contrary evidence...Quote:
Look at every President America has ever had and what they are remembered for...the ones that are best known are those who are known for their wars and/or assasinations.
Consider Thomas Jefferson. Yes, he was one of the founding fathers, and played an integral role in the US revolution, but he wasn't President until WELL AFTER that war was over and the Constitution ratified. His image lives forever on our money, and although he's most notably known for penning the Declaration of Independence, his genious and generosity in research and philosophy led to some admirable changes in our (then) young country. He never started a war.
So far Bush has shown everyone that he may be the anti christ lol...
That couldn't be farther from the truth... 90% of people of the islamic religion are extremely peaceful. They hate all forms of violence. You only hear about the couple million out of over 500 million that are violent. Wouldnt you be violent if a country took over your country? Not to mention a country with a lot of islamic history... Sure the governments of those countries may be somewhat violent, but that's not to be confused with islam as a religion or it's followers...Quote:
Of course, the Islam has always been considered a hostile religion to many western countries and I don't think this will change in the future unless some drastic changes take place in many of those Islamic countries.
Do yourself a favor and only talk about things that you actually know something about...
His father:
"Trying to eliminate Saddam .. would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible ... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq ...there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."
Now what makes you think that he changed his mind later in life? Saddam would only get crazier and “secure” his Iraq even more after such a close call in Desert Storm! Look at what he did with the helicopters on the Kurds.
Oil:
We have our own oil and n-gas in the US. I can take you to hundreds of uncovered areas throughout the east and midwest that have already been tapped and been plugged since the 80's waiting to be used. And Russia………Man you wouldn't believe the potassium isotope and radon anomalies we've found in Russia and here at home. My 3D data showed highly prospective hydrocarbon anomalies all throughout small concentrated areas in Russia, I'm talking big banana wells here! You tap one of those and you'll be living like a sultan. Those stupid morons in Russia ruined years of privately funded US exploration and ran out all of the Yukos and Sibneft peoples. All because those idiots were playing the political game. People don't understand how much oil we have here at home. We have enough to drop the price of a gallon to some seriously cheap figures, Bush well than more knows this. The DOE (Department of Energy) 30+ years ago used helicopters over the period of a decade to survey uranium values across the United States for Navy fuel and WMD's. These 2D charts practically show calcium lows where the hydrocarbons are located, to the educated eye you can zero in on propitious landscapes, hopefully around legal periphery. These radiometric measurements show promising areas throughout America, the telluric analysis is incredible. I use this data for free to engineer efficient 3D seismic shoots. The only problem is transporting the product to the far refineries, it's expensive to transport so far. Kuwait has offered many times to build refineries for free. Think about that. Those that say it's for oil haven't a clue.
USGS 1995 National Assessment of United States Oil and Gas Resources:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1998/of98-468/oil_futures.pdf
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs024-98/table1.htm
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs024-98/
Could they be keeping those oil reserves incase of an extreme national emergency?
Canada also has an abundance of oil and gas resources...what we lack are good refineries...so we sell the raw form to the US who then charges us a premium mark-up when we buy it back.
Other reserves come from South America.
As far as I know we get none of our oil from the middle east...yet we pay twice what Americans pay even after the enchange rate.
Eg ;)
It wasn't god that told bush to invade Iraq it was the Saudis who told him. Saudi arabia is a fundamentalist country whatever the royal family tries to say. Iraq was the only country in the region which was free of Islamic control. Also the Saudis were scared sh*tless of Saddam ever since he invaded Kuwait.
As for the WMD does any here really believes that saddam or others were able to smuggle the hundreds of tons of highly dangerous chemicals and other materials out of iraq without leaving some sort of trace?
fire alarm will try to get back to this later.
I hate those pesky wabbits [sic].Quote:
this story of bush being on a mission from god was started by a wahabbist
I've no idea why Bush / Blair decided to invade Iraq. I'm quite certain in both cases it was a self serving interest. Bush trying to get some more cash for Daddy and his country club buddies. Blair, full of his own self importance, is trying to establish some historical footnote for himself leading to the top job in the EU or UN.
Here is my historical note for him: Tony Blair - PM Uk, **** and liar, wife with a face like a bucket of frogs who schemes money from the state through human rights legisaltion. Remembered largely for having big ears and having a pensioner beaten up for disgreeing with one of his minions. Popularly not considered worthy of licking the crusts off a tramps ****.
P45 for Tony please.
Bit more than 500 million total muslims.Quote:
Originally posted here by The Duck
So far Bush has shown everyone that he may be the anti christ lol...
That couldn't be farther from the truth... 90% of people of the islamic religion are extremely peaceful. They hate all forms of violence. You only hear about the couple million out of over 500 million that are violent. Wouldnt you be violent if a country took over your country? Not to mention a country with a lot of islamic history... Sure the governments of those countries may be somewhat violent, but that's not to be confused with islam as a religion or it's followers...
Do yourself a favor and only talk about things that you actually know something about...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm
Current estimates put it at around 1.5 billion, but I couldn't find a more recent link in two seconds of googling.
Aspman you may get a kick out out of the attachment. Seing as your such a good fan of Truthfull Tony :D
This is what a few of my mates are waring on thier TeeShirts.
I'll have to get one of them. Mind you I'll just get lifted and stored at Her Majesty's pleasure.
My mate (submariner) had a funny Unce Sam/ Jihad Tshirt. It was funny but I've forgotton what it said.
[you must spread your points around....]
so you guys are saying that you dont think radical islam is a real threat to the free world and that the so called 'war on terror' is just a plan to make money?
If the war on terror makes money, it's only as a by product. The real incentive is ever increasing control of the population. It also takes the populations eyes of real issues at home that should be being dealt with. Unemployment, education, foreign policy, trade deficit, Ip law, etc, etc.
<edit>
to add the attached.
I like to have balance in my posts where possible :D
PS
the attachment maybe offensive to some
I'm not even going to start on the 'free world'..Quote:
Originally posted here by Tedob1
so you guys are saying that you dont think radical islam is a real threat to the free world and that the so called 'war on terror' is just a plan to make money?
But I don't think it is about money directly..
I'm with jinxy..
It's about power and control..
and It's all about human aggression ....Quote:
Originally posted here by the_JinX
I'm not even going to start on the 'free world'..
But I don't think it is about money directly..
I'm with jinxy..
It's about power and control..
and It's all about human aggression ....Quote:
Originally posted here by the_JinX
I'm not even going to start on the 'free world'..
But I don't think it is about money directly..
I'm with jinxy..
It's about power and control..
That was just an estimate off the top of my head... but 1.5 billion just helps my argument... I rest my case :)Quote:
Originally posted here by The Grunt
Bit more than 500 million total muslims.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm
Current estimates put it at around 1.5 billion, but I couldn't find a more recent link in two seconds of googling.
"Now I lay me down to sleep, for the lord my soul to keep.... oh hey G, it's me the heathen. When you talk to G Jr. tonight. Could you, would you tell him to stop being a liberal and fighting in Iraq like a pussy. Then ask him, no you order him to look at the borders and make some decision on tightening entrance to those who don't want to play by OUR rules, and then tell him to go ahead and put who he wants on the supreme court, he has the majority for god's I mean 'your' sake. Jesus, oh sorry lord, man he's a wimp. Make the balls he had during the first term and stick them where they belong. Thank you Lord my god and father, holy spirit all that, Amen"
Now I lay me down to sleep....Blah, blah, blah my soul to keep.....If I die before I wake....I'll go to hell for heaven's sake
How could I a heathen pagan border line evil antichrist, know that and you don't Rusty?