ATTEMPTING to build a new comp

Well i finally got sick of buying pre-made crap from HP *shudder* and am beginning to put together a list of things i want/need to get to build a new computer for myself and was wondering if i could get everyone's opinions and experience since i know way too little to attempt this on my own. The comp will be mostly for playing Final Fantasy online, and using graphics programs such as Animation Master, Bryce, Poser, 3D Studio Max to name some. I also have a bad habbit of letting something render in one program while starting work in another, so speed and multi tasking is very important for me.

Personally i have always liked ATI over Geforce, but i know that sometimes ATI isn't the best pick i just happen to like Radeon cards better.

SO i am looking to spend hopefully not much more than 2-2.5k on this computer. I already have a 320 gig WD Sata external HDD so i wont be needing a huge internal drive or anything. What would you all suggest?

Let,s see 1.Big enough case with at least 400-500watt power supply!!
2.Good mobo gigabite,msi,asrock or chaintech..
3.At least 1-2gig ram ddr 400 corsair..
4.Good graphix card personally i own a Leadtek gforce 6800le 256 bit 128mb ram..you could go for more video ram if needed.
5.Big hdd which you already have..
6.No use if you have a good screencard but a crappy screen so a good screen is also a must if you can afford it..
7.Well last but not least good sound preferrably 5.1 surround with sub..
8.Good mouse and keyboard whether it be wireless or optical is up to you..

cheers
vanman:D

Well i was already looking at those type of specs, i was hoping for a little more specific ideas. For instance i was looking at a dual core AMD proc, but which one? i noticed that it seems there are 2 versions per speed, one with 1 mb cache and one with a 2 mb cache. I honestly don't even know what that means :D besides knowing the one will be faster. but how much? things like this is the help i am looking for. Is SLI or CrossFire technologies old enough to be reliable? i really do drool everytime i think of running dual 512mb radeon cards :smokes: As for the ram should i run 2 or 1 stick, for instance if i decided on lets say 1024 would i be better running one 1024 stick or 2 512? things like this would be of great help in my decision making. also i live in the chicagoland area, anyone know of a good reliable place/site to get my parts from?

First of all, your external hard drive is going to be slower then any internal hard drive, you were probably better off just getting a really big internal HDD... To answer your memory question, don't worry about one 1024 stick or two 512 sticks, just get dual channel, you have the budget...

I too live in the chicagoland area, tiger direct is a great place to get your hardware... Not the site... the actual brick and mortor building.

It would be easier for us to answer your questions if you supplied links to what hardware your looking at...

It just got real busy here at work so when i get home i will link the different things i have been looking at so far.

how about starting a little bit simplier, being this is your first time..make sure everything is compatible! you dont wanna buy something and have to return it or exchange it.

www.pricewatch.com

Sorry folks, but TigerDirect can't hold a candle to pricewatch when it comes to getting the most bang for your buck.

No, I know, but I thought he was asking for a brick and mortor building in the chicagoland area... And since I can just go there I don't have to pay for shipping...

Quote:

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AMD proc, but which one? i noticed that it seems there are 2 versions per speed, one with 1 mb cache and one with a 2 mb cache. I honestly don't even know what that means besides knowing the one will be faster. but how much?

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I took a class on structured computer organization once... so, let me try to answer this. I'm not hardware expert as I rarely need *that* much power and I don't keep up with the cutting edge. My 3 and 4 year old computers have been doing everything I need them to.

Your cache the memory that sits between your CPU and main memory. Many people refer it to your on board processor memory or even static ram. It doesn't always have to be on the processor. It is much faster than the memory on your graphics card and your main memory (ram you can see sticking out the mobo). The reason you don't have much of it is because it is so expensive. It is more expensive because it takes more parts to make static ram. Since it takes more parts... it takes up more space so you can get less of it on a chip.

Static ram uses transistors made into flip flops and never has to be refreshed. Dynamic ram (or main memory) uses transistors but stores its "data" (read bits) with a capacitor . The capacitor has to be refreshed often or it'll loose it's value or data.

The faster you can get data to the processor (through the bus), the faster it can be processed. If you have more memory on your processor, the more it can hold in its buffer to be processed. So, having 2 mb cache vs 1 mb cache memory on your processor means that it can store 1 mb more to be processed. If you're looking for performance... the more you have the better. I'm not sure exactly how much faster it will be... but for processor intensive applications... you'll want it.

So, the speeds of ram, as far as architecture is concerned is cache level 1 and 2, main memory and video card memory and then finally your page-file (which is just "swapped out" to hard disk) Too much swapping can lead to thrashing... which you don't want. When you are switching between programs... you'll hear you hard disk "thrashing" which means it is taking what is main memory and dumping it into the page file on the hard disk.

Anyway... the more cache memory and main memory you have... the better.
I'd go with at least 1 gb of main memory for what you want to do. May want to just get a single module of memory if you can... so it'll be easier to upgrade your ram in the future. If you have two 512mb modules and you only have two slots on your mobo... when you go to upgrade... you'll have to ditch at least one of those. These days... memory doesn't always have to be installed in pairs... (could be wrong on this for newer ram?)


http://webopedia.com/TERM/c/cache.html

There is a good explanation of what cache is. I'm not always the best at explaining these things. It all makes sense in my head... but I've taken a lot of electrical engineering and computer engineering classes.

I also have a great book on this if you want a more detailed explanation. There are several chapters going over the different types of memory along with exactly how the processor processes info. (well depending on RISC or CISC)

phishphreek80 that actually did help a lot thanks for the explaination on the memory. i was so busy yesterday at work i ended up just hittin the sack as soon as i finally got home. Today however i will be posting the various parts i have been eyeing thus far.

You mentioned the game cards so I'd say go with this below.
AMD :
Board: Fatal1ty AN8-SLI
CPU: *ClawHammer *San Diego *Venice

With RAM you guys mentioned pairs, I assume you meant speed. But with dual channel you have to run 1st-sl0t 128mb with 128mb 2nd sl0t or 1st-sl0t 256mb with 256mb 2nd sl0t, etc... etc...ect... because 1st-sl0t 512mb with 128mb 2nd sl0t wont give you any.....you need same size and speed to get dual action going.

Ok here is what i have been eyeing so far

Proc: AMD 64 X2 4400
http://www.nextag.com/serv/main/buye...X2+4400&node=0

Vidcard: SAPPHIRE 100116SR (maybe 2 if it is crossfire set up)
http://www.nextag.com/SAPPHIRE-10011...RE-PRICES-html

Mem: OCZ DDR 1GB(1024MB)OCZ4001024V3 PC-3200/400MHZ
http://www.nextag.com/OCZ-DDR-1GB-10...RE-PRICES-html

Mobo: this is where im stumpped. I know it needs to be Crossfire enabled or ready or whatever tis called, and if i am running dual 512mb vid cards then i think it will also need at least 4 PCI E x16 slots in it.

Sound Card: intigrated in the mobo is fine dont need anything spiffy.

HDD: External 320gig Western Digital 7200RPM --already purchased
Internal Western Digital 74 GB Raptor 10kRPM 8mb cache --not purchased

Cd/dvd/write drives : eh havent looked into specifics just need something that runs here

3 1/2 inch disk drive : ditto

Monitor: have been thinking about getting a sweet HD tv with the whole s-vid in, unless there is a better quality interface i don't know of yet, and just use the tv as a monitor.

Seriously, if you're leaning more at games, don't buy a top price dual core at the expense of other hardware like a sound card. *Toledo's are priced high but that 2MB L2 cache over the *Manchester’s 1MB L2 cache is what you get. (which is what, a few FPS 2-3) A gamer going dual core, I can't think of any games that are taking advantage of that. I'd go single core *San Diego *Venice and use that money on a soundcard, good board or another vidcard. Because if you look at what you're paying for, I don't see any benefits to dual.

Have you ever played a game with a good soundcard, and then played the same game without the card and onboard only? You loose so many other noises and technology when you don't have a card. This is my exp.


http://www.fatal1ty.com/mystory/ fatal1ty is telling you to buy his board so you can camp in corners and p00n n00bs too! Joking,that kid is good.

While i do lean towards games, well one game in my case Final Fantasy XI all the way, i also spend a good deal of time playing with lots of 3d animation apps like 3D studio Max, Animation Master, Bryce, and Poser. The reason i thought the dual would be a good thing is because i tend to have one project rendering in one app while i am doing something else in another of those apps. if you still think that the dual core would just be too much at this time then better for me since they are a bit on the pricey side as of yet.

As for the sound card thing i have a program that sends out surround sound quality sound, well close to it, over the normal stereo output jack on the back of my comp, and i then have that hooked up to a 5.1 surround sound system/dvd player thingy so luckily i do get all those little ambient sounds most people miss.

*Toledo's are priced high but that 2MB L2 cache over the *Manchester’s 1MB L2 cache is what you get. . . . . I'd go single core *San Diego *Venice . . . .

Umm could you explain what this means? what are San Diego and Venice, are they brands?

Those are the names of the chips.
Example: From newegg: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3200BIBOX - Retail

Intel quit going the high clocks route because that's not what counts as you can see from AMD. Clocks only take you so far in certain areas. It probably was a selling point to the masses like this: 300gig HDD!.....some people think that means it will be faster than a PC with a 20gig HDD. They think it makes the PC "go faster"!

Go here and choose the chip you want and run it against another chip. Choose DoomIII PCmark etc... You'll see the names their like,*ClawHammer *San Diego *Venice *Northwood etc....ect....
http://www23.tomshardware.com/

Read this and you'll understand the importance of cache:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/cache.htm

when i get the chance i will check out those sites. What about the dual core proc, even with my tendency to use multiple high resources using programs at the same time would you still suggest going with a high(er) end single instead of a dual?

The programs your multi tasking with probably won't take advantage of the dual cores anyway... So it shouldn't matter as of now... Same concept goes with PCIE and 64 bit processors...

Quote:

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Originally posted here by JewishIntent
w What about the dual core proc, even with my tendency to use multiple high resources using programs at the same time would you still suggest going with a high(er) end single instead of a dual?

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That's a choice you're going to have to make. I'm making that choice too. I've decide both AMD single, Conroe Dual. If you're running bat files like the ones I do.

Code:

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@echo off
@cd\ & cls
@set progs="C:\Program Files\
@start "" %progs%Prime95\Prime95.exe"
@start "" %progs%Ada\AdaLang.exe"
@start "" %progs%Pi\pi.exe"
@start "" %progs%PCMark\PCMark\PCM.exe"
@start "" %progs%Abit Setup\Abitdll.exe"
@start "" %progs%Tempgui\Abit-tech.exe"
@start "" %progs%RNI\ATF.exe"
@start "" %progs%AudioLab\JamLabDrivers.exe"
@start cmd
@cls & @exit

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Dual will cut that like butter. But how often do I do that, is it worth the money?