Motherboard/CPU problem

Ok, heres the deal. My friend needed a new fan installed so I go to his place, take out the old fan, and read the directions to install the new fan. it mentions that you have to take out the entire motherboard to secure the fan. This was no problem as I am not quite a novice with handling hardware. ( I built my computer from scratch from some basic directions on the internet). I remembered to wear the anti-static strip, the whole nine yards.

Turns out the fan would not work with his motherboard type. :rolleyes:

So I put everything back together the right way, applied the bonding material back to the old cpu/heatsink. I turn it on and it started for 2 seconds and turned off. I figure I forgot to plug something in but I've double checked everything and it still won't work.

When I do turn it on the lights on the keyboard flash for a moment and then nothing. No monitor response, nothing.

What I need to know: Did I fry the board somehow? Or did I fry the Processor? Is this fixable?

A little info on the system hardware:

D865G Intel Motherboard
Intel Pentium 4 Processor 3.0GHz 512k 800FSB
300W power supply

You didn't leave a screw or anything lying on the board.?
You plugged everything in the right way.?

Maybe try unplugging the power cord to the motherboard, and take out the internal battery for 10 minutes, then put the battery in, plug the power cord back.
Then see what happens..

cheers
front2back

The internal battery?
'splain please

Quote:

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My friend needed a new fan installed

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Why? changing the heatsink and processor fan isn't something one does for the fun of it?

What makes you think that the heatsink and fan

Quote:

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would not work with his motherboard type

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? You obviously managed to connect them?.......................normally the heatsink and fan would be appropriate to the processor, not the motherboard.

So, if you have an Intel P4 3.0GHz Processor, and an Intel approved heatsink and fan they should work.

Can we have some more details?

:)

He needed a new fan installed cuz the one he had installed rattled. It was still operational but he got tired of the grating noise. I tried using sewing machine oil (reccomended) and it didn't quiet it at all. So then he bought a new fan. I neglected to check if the new fan were compatible with the motherboard until I disconnected the motherboard from everything and removed the motherboard from the case. The motherboard uses a 478 mounting slot and the fan that he bought, a thermal take 2 uses a 775 slot. After finding out that the new fan was not compatible with the motherboard I proceded to put everything back the way I found it. I wiped off the old thermal compound off the processor, applied new thermal compound and put the old fan and heatsink back into place. I then turned on the computer only to have it start up for 2 seconds tops and then shut off. The fans are spinning and everything seems to be in place, this is my predicament.

I need to know how to narrow down my options to
1) I'm dumb and connected something wrong or
2) I'm careless and somehow messed up the board and/or the processor

I am terribly sorry to hear that. It does not bode well for the processor at the very least. Provided that you RAN IT If you did not, then you may be lucky :) even if you did, there is still a fair chance.

I suspect that the old fan may just have chosen your moment of "open fan surgery" to die on you.

AFAIK, the modern Pentiums will detect overheating and shut themselves off................this could be what is happening? That would protect the CPU and MoBo, and the fan might APPEAR to be running OK but is just not delivering the goods.

OK. You will need:

1. An approved heatsink and fan might be worth getting something that would handle a newer replacement processor, just in case you did fry the old one?
2. Some silver thermal compound (Arctic Silver or the like) http://www.arcticsilver.com/
3. Cleaning Fluid (Arctic silver do this as well)

Proceed to replace fan as per instructions. Be careful! you can use too much compound as well as too little.

Give that a try....................if you do need a new processor then you will at least have a suitable fan.

You might look at the MoBo around the CPU socket with a magnifying glass.............if there is charring then that is very bad news.

Good luck



:)

Never in my life have I heard of having to take out the entire motherboard to replace a heatsink and fan...

How did you handle the motherboard? What surfaces did you place it on... etc... How did you handle the CPU? How did you scrub off the old compound?? We need details on how you went about this procedure...

Sounds to me either you messed up the CPU or the motherboard... I am not as optimistic as nihil :D... I doubt replacing the fan with another one will help now... I think the damage has been done...

I'd say from my guess with my experience as far as hardware goes. It is entirely possiable that you did fry something or have hooked up something wrong. Like The Duck said without more in depth details of what you did. Its hard to give you any help with your problem.

Hi,

A lot of manufacturers tell you to attach the processor and cooling unit before inserting the MoBo into the case. That doesn't mean that you have to remove the MoBo subsequently.

Socket 775 units look like this: http://www.pctoys.com/840556058366.html

As can be seen, there are 4 mounting screws/fixtures so it is completely different from a socket 478 unit. From this, I would assume that you were not able to attach and run it.

I do hope that you carefully replaced the little insulating washers when reinserting the MoBo, typically, they are orange in colour. I would also check that there are no lose screws or wires touching the MoBo, that might cause a short.

Also check that the CPU fan is connected to the MoBo correctly, and that any sensor wires are also correctly attached.

It turns on for a couple of seconds, and the keyboard lights flash. That suggests that the BIOS has initiated. Do you get any bleeps?

Check all connections from the PSU, to ensure that they are firmly and correctly attached. Also check that memory and graphics cards are clean and firmly seated.

We really do need some more information

:)

hi reddfox,
Before i contribute with a few suggestions i would just state that i dont like your 300w powersupply.
(considering no that cheap cpu 3.0 intel i would invest little bit in something more decent. ;)
Golden rule and that is rule no.1 dont touch/change anything until it works.
I have done very very similar thing and 1 day before lan party decided that having silver termal paste would do miracle next day and managed to fry motherboard and cpu when instaled termaltake sensor on wrong place:( I had exactly same "2 seconds" work and then nothing.Had smelled little bit of burn and knew straightaway is time to organize funeral for both of them.

Please post more informations even if you think they are irrelevant, more the better.
What is your motherboard?
I assume that you have new motherboard with that cpu.Some of them have feature like asus ones which is called c.o.p(cpu overheating protection).That will save you few hundrad dollars and cpu if you have it.

Did you smell anything burned?
Does your power supply works?
Ary talking about this fan??
http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/c...cl-p0257-2.htm
If it is -it pays too read it and search before you buy as it clearly states there compatibility with which socket and which cpu
Is this your motherboard?
http://au.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1...e=Intel%20865G
if it is i am sorry but it doesnt have c.o.p
AS nihil asked any beep when booting?
Does monitor have power?
please post as much as possible

My intention is in no way to critisize you or your action but try to get message accross that all the resourses are on the nett and in a visual presentation form so we just need to do some research. It takes few minutes and all info is there.(and free)
Well believe it or not i even downloaded from thermaltake site how to install my termaltake sensor (after apllying paste on cpu) in coloured page-had them in front of me and my friend who is expert in hardware and we still managed to insert it wrong and cause $500 damage.
Well from that excercise i learned about motherboards with cop and found that very handy feature.
Me and probably most of us here learned doing expensive mistakes so we try to help others not to repeat them.
Post more info

i take my mobos out of the case when i repalce the fan ... thoes things can be pretty tight on that socket... and when ur bent over a case fighting cords witha flat-blade .... u slip ur screwed.... i took afew chips clean off the mobo when i tried once... it was an older mobo but i was still pissed...

taking the extra steps to ensure safety and prevent fubar results is definitly the way to go

first lets test to see if your motherboard is functional...

get any working cpu fan and plug it into the correct fan port... *CPU 1*

modern BIOS detect fan failures and shut down instantly to prevent overheating... and if its a soyo its a bit touchy with heat anyway...

now if your comp starts to boot up turn it off as soon as possiable.. u are running fanless. but now we know your board is functional....just get a fan that fits and good luck


if you still have a problem reset your bios settings... should be a jumper on your board... read the manual or check online how to do that...

your bios might be reading a different RPM from the fan then before which may tell your bios ur having a fan failur... reseting the bios should help with that


absolute last resort... just take it in and let someone who does it for a living repair it... trust me... us computer novices know alot... but id rather pay 25$ an hour if i wasnt too sure what i was doing... and if they **** it up in the process they usualy replace ur part for you

and if you do take it in dont feel afraid to ask what was wrong and how he/she fixed it... knowledge is power

Quote:

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Originally posted here by The Duck
Never in my life have I heard of having to take out the entire motherboard to replace a heatsink and fan...

How did you handle the motherboard? What surfaces did you place it on... etc... How did you handle the CPU? How did you scrub off the old compound?? We need details on how you went about this procedure...

Sounds to me either you messed up the CPU or the motherboard... I am not as optimistic as nihil :D... I doubt replacing the fan with another one will help now... I think the damage has been done...

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I touched the motherboard by the sides. I placed it onto an antistatic mat. I wiped off the old compound with isopropyl and a cotton swab as per the instructions on the new silver compound tube. I had read somewhere that Intel chips turn off before they can overheat.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by nihil
Hi,

A lot of manufacturers tell you to attach the processor and cooling unit before inserting the MoBo into the case. That doesn't mean that you have to remove the MoBo subsequently.

Socket 775 units look like this: http://www.pctoys.com/840556058366.html

As can be seen, there are 4 mounting screws/fixtures so it is completely different from a socket 478 unit. From this, I would assume that you were not able to attach and run it.

I do hope that you carefully replaced the little insulating washers when reinserting the MoBo, typically, they are orange in colour. I would also check that there are no lose screws or wires touching the MoBo, that might cause a short.

Also check that the CPU fan is connected to the MoBo correctly, and that any sensor wires are also correctly attached.

It turns on for a couple of seconds, and the keyboard lights flash. That suggests that the BIOS has initiated. Do you get any bleeps?

Check all connections from the PSU, to ensure that they are firmly and correctly attached. Also check that memory and graphics cards are clean and firmly seated.

We really do need some more information

:)

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I don't get bleeps, like I said it only stays on for 2 seconds before it shuts off.

Any questions you have about my procedure or whats going on right now and I'll gladly provide the answers.

REDDFOX321

Well I'm gonna say that you did everything satisfactory and it's probably not your fault. That's not going to get the thing back up, and since we don't get to look at it, touch it, smell it, etc., we are tossing possibilities your way. So like the rest I have a few as well that are not necessarily under your control.

First of all Main Boards die! Thats right! They are mass produced and the process is most likely automated. That meaning sometimes an iffy board makes its way to us. The same is true about most of the gizmos in the box. As much as we would like to keep them alive forever, we are not in control of thier quality and they are heavy abused especially if we turn them on and off frequently. That surge of power adversely affects the solder on just about every silly pin that is in it's path. It doesn't take an awful lot of switching on and off to literally knock the solder right off the pins. Monitors are especially notorious for this. That is definitely one possibility.

Second the board can become brittle after alot of use and abuse. What was once a fairly simple evolution (i.e. installing a new fan) with controlable risks involved when the board was new; is a completely different critter after the board has been subjected to surges and heat for awhile. It does become brittle. To the extent that even minor bending as we force down the fan clamps, can break the runs thus making it unserviceable. Even one hairline crack that is probably extremely minute is all it takes.

Third and something that can be tested Is the power supply. Without opening up the power supply (we don't want you to look like ready kilo-watt), the voltage from the connectors can be easily tested with a voltmeter. If you don't have one or not sure about it, it is real easy to have someone else do it for almost nothing. If you don't have a drawing, it's easy to find online. Or if you have another known to be good compatable power supply, toss it in the box and see what happens. Make sure the voltage switch on the back of the power supply is set appropriately.

Fourth, if you haven't already done so, look closely at every connector checking every pin to make sure it's not bent or missing.

cheers.

Ok the Motherboard was sitting on Antistatic surface while you were working..right?

Well HAve you bothered to clear/reset the BIOS CMOS..
I have had mobos get the BIOS corrupted from sitting on the (resistive)-conductive surface for a period of time, even from sitting in the protective pouches..

So on the advice thus far:
1/ RECHECK ALL YOUR CONNECTIONS
2/ Reset your BIOS CMOS
3/ recheck All your connections..you have reconnected the cooling fan plugs correctly?
4/ retrace your steps .. was there any slip of a screwdriver, flexing of the Mobo, did/does the mobo flex when inserting any of the plugs you've had to seat/check?


regarding the last step..
- have seem many dead mobo's caused by flexie cases, cheap cases that are as ridged as Jello. or the motherboard is supported over less than 66% of the total area. or one end is totaly unsupported.
- The question was asked as to why replacing the HSF.. perhaps if there was a problem in the mobo itself and the HSF was a suspect because of ill-informed advice..

Quote:

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Originally posted here by Und3ertak3r
Ok the Motherboard was sitting on Antistatic surface while you were working..right?

Well HAve you bothered to clear/reset the BIOS CMOS..
I have had mobos get the BIOS corrupted from sitting on the (resistive)-conductive surface for a period of time, even from sitting in the protective pouches..

So on the advice thus far:
1/ RECHECK ALL YOUR CONNECTIONS
2/ Reset your BIOS CMOS
3/ recheck All your connections..you have reconnected the cooling fan plugs correctly?
4/ retrace your steps .. was there any slip of a screwdriver, flexing of the Mobo, did/does the mobo flex when inserting any of the plugs you've had to seat/check?

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How do I reset the bios CMOS
unfortunately my friend bought the computer from Systemax(?) and it came with the minimum documentation about the board etc.

Out of curiosity I unplugged the cords from the power supply to the processor and the computer doesn't shut off. In fact it ran fine except for the fact it didn't start up, no burning smell, no nothing. I turned it off again after about 10 seconds. I then removed the old fan (again) and looked around and on the chip. No burn marks or anything. :confused:

Two methods:

1. Remove the button cell battery on the motherboard and leave it out for 24 hours. Make sure that the power is not plugged in.

2. There might also be a jumper swich with 4 pins. Move the jumper to the other two pins power up, power down and swap the jumper back.

:)

I reset the bios and it just worked!

thank god, I was so worried. Thanks all!!! :D