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I've read that one of the problems of wireless communication is cell phone security. One of the worries I read about was other people listening into cell phone calls. I have some questions.
Is this truly possible to do?
How do I find out if my phone is being listened in on?
What type of phones can be listened into?
I don't know much about Cell Phone security, but I do know this. In reality, your cell phone is not that much different than a regular land line. Once the receiving tower has received your phone call transmission, it is transmitted over land lines.
Therefore, if you can listen in on a land line call, you can listen in on a cell phone call.
I am not too sure how to determine if you are being listened to. My suggestion is dont say anything you shouldn't. :halo:
It's very possible and easy to do. I used to be able to listen to phone calls by using a TV on a certain channel and then a wireless phone. Police scanners pick them up easy too. Cell phones are not to hard to break into and there isn't really a way to tell if you're being listened to. However some phones have security and it can make them hard to listen in on. Of course the main worry shouldn't be that someone is listening to you, but that they may steal your ESN (Electronic Serial Number) which every cell has.
All phones can be tapped.
Hey Hey,
Work + Life = Bad Today so I came home and polished of a mickey (13oz) in under 30 minutes.. I'm a little drunk... but I think I can still offer some insight.
Kevin Mitnick was caught by cell phone triangulation wasn't he... so how secure are they... :P... Anyways... watch Operation Takedown for more on that. it just popped in my head so I decided to say it..
On with why I started this post... It's actually extremely simple to listen in on a cell phone... However, it's slightly more difficult to pick who you listen to...
Think of it like a cordless phone in a big apartment building.. occasionally you pick up your neighbours calls...
Certain cell phones (back in the day)... would go into testing mode and they'd let you listen in on phone calls... My roommate still has his old erikson... that's the only reason he ever bought it.. was so he could listen in on other peoples calls... My old nokia... I could have soldered and crossed a few pins in order to turn it into a scanner... so yes it is simple... with my roommates he just had to enter a code...
It's no type of phone.... it's any cell phone that's in the proximity...
Peace,
HT
I even think some British students figured out a way to locate a Stealth Bomber by using cellphone tower signal relays about 3-4 years ago.Quote:
Originally posted here by HTRegz
Kevin Mitnick was caught by cell phone triangulation wasn't he... so how secure are they... :P... Anyways... watch Operation Takedown for more on that.
Cellphones are a wireless electronic communication device, just as any PC network. Some have security (I know my nextel does), but many don't. Any ameatur techie can access wireless activity with a pringle can, so I assume cellphones are just as easy, if not even easier to compromise.
I think there was even a case about a year back of someone remotely stealing photos from celebrity cellphone cameras and selling them. So to all of your questions orenishii; yes. However, I'm not sure how to be aware if you're being tapped or not.
i bet the newer digital phones are harder to listen in on
back in the days of analog you could probably pick up all types of interference
digital... u need something to translate the signal right?... im assuming its done at the radio tower or switching center... so land line can be tapped... digital lines... not so easy.. but not impossiable
just as a side note on interference
my friend can pick up 4 radio stations on her guitar amp with a 20foot patch cord...FM
Most cell phones are nothing more than low level radios. Like what was said above, they fall into a governed frequency spectrum (864-900mhz) or soemwhere in that range. While most commercial scanners are set to block out this band, it is possible to modify a cheap-o $100 ratshack scanner to eavesdrop on cell conversations.
read that one of the problems of wireless communication is cell phone security. One of the worries I read about was other people listening into cell phone calls. I have some questions.
Is this truly possible to do?
yup it's possible.
How do I find out if my phone is being listened in on?
But there is no way you would know that someone is listening or receiving an image from
your cell.
What type of phones can be listened into? [/B][/QUOTE]
Cell phones use radio frequency wave to transmit and receive audio and data. So, any phone
using a frequency can be scanned and listened into.
You can use radios that operate from 800mhz to 900mhz to scan for cell phone frequency. Some radio scanners pick up cell phone conversation in other parts of the band. This is known as "imaging" and most dual conversion scanners will pick up images 21.7 Mhz above or below the actual frequencies. Lets say you have a cell blocked scanner but your picking up calls at 901.690 MHz (this is the scrambled band). If you minus 21.7 MHz away you would get 879.990 MHz. This is where the real conversation is taking place.
If you have access to 'Freedom Downtime' (2600's DVD) the second dvd has some footage of people intercepting cellphone transmissions. It is kind of comical, and very interesting.
I'm with Hexadecimal on this one. IIRC newer phones are digital and you need something to interpret the signals. I also believe that they transmit on a different frequency now. I know the old cell phones, the bricks, would work in the 800-900Mhz range. I'll have to try screwin around with all my obsolete/broken/collected cell phones and see what they really do.
What I'm more tempted to do, is modify one of my obsolete phones and create one of those cell phone jammers so that no ones phones work within about 10 feet of me.
Actually lot has changed with cell phones today, i'll let you know what i know
1. Cell phone network is very much based on OSI refrence model, so it
has its pros and cons.
2. Eavesdropping really depends upon the underlying technology like
GSM or CDMA. It is realively ro eavesdrop a GSM conversation and almost
impossible on CDMA.
3. At the backend like SMS or IVR systems, they are really computer systems and
in *computer networks* , there are Cisco H232 routers, Oracle databases, unix
systems and Microsoft SQL Servers.
4. To eavesdrop you need expensive hardware thats why it is not so common.
Any how check out htp://www.cellphonehacks.com
That's not true, my first reply showed how you could use a TV and a cordless phone. Then 2 people reworded what I said and posted it. and Digital phones as pointed out operate at around 900 MHz... Tri mode is 1900 MHz.
Actually i am an electronic and communication engineer by profession and i know
communication techinolgy at the back of my hand , any how you'r response was
very obivious. Take a few points please
1. Cordless phone is not *cell* phone, it is very different.
2. Different cell phone companies have different frequency bands,(just like radio stations)
hence your suggestion is only true in one context.
Dude..... I didn't say a cordless was a cell, I said I used a cordless and a TV to listen to phone calls. And it's funny you do that for a living and for 3 years, so have I. However I no longer do this, but doing nothing but cell phones and setting them up for 3 years, you learn about them.
How did you confuse what I said with saying cordless and cell?
Dude..... I didn't say a cordless was a cell, I said I used a cordless and a TV to listen to phone calls. And it's funny you do that for a living and for 3 years, so have I. However I no longer do this, but doing nothing but cell phones and setting them up for 3 years, you learn about them.
How did you confuse what I said with saying cordless and cell?
Here is a link I found that might answer some questions...
http://home.san.rr.com/denbeste/eavesdrp.html
Hope it helps
Westin
Here is a link I found that might answer some questions...
http://home.san.rr.com/denbeste/eavesdrp.html
Hope it helps
Westin
The older, analogue phones were very easy to listen in on. I used to have a scanner, and often picked up phone conversations. Nowadays in UK, its all gone digital (GSM) and the algorithm employed is meant to be a tough one - not unbreakable though, i remember reading about a weakness in it. But a would-be eavesdropper can just hit your conversation on when it gets onto a landline.
The older, analogue phones were very easy to listen in on. I used to have a scanner, and often picked up phone conversations. Nowadays in UK, its all gone digital (GSM) and the algorithm employed is meant to be a tough one - not unbreakable though, i remember reading about a weakness in it. But a would-be eavesdropper can just hit your conversation on when it gets onto a landline.
I'm famous where I live for this type of thing. There was a thread a while back about how "Hackers in Michigan were breaking into the wireless head sets" of fast food places saying you're to fat to have a whopper. Again, those are so easy to get into it's not even funny.
I'm famous where I live for this type of thing. There was a thread a while back about how "Hackers in Michigan were breaking into the wireless head sets" of fast food places saying you're to fat to have a whopper. Again, those are so easy to get into it's not even funny.
The frequencies for phones varie between type of service (GSM, CDMA, TDMA) and where you are physically located (850, 900, 1800, & 1900mhz):
http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roa...bandphones.htm
Each provider does have his own set of frequency channels to use, and secures them with their technology and the technology available for their feed:
http://www.gsmworld.com/using/algorithms/index.shtml
What has to be done is you have to crack the encryption on the signal and take in the feed. It's not as simple as picking up a radio scanner or portable phone on an older 900mhz frequency (now all phones are 2.4ghz) like it used to be with analog cell phones.
The only way someone can eavesdrop is by having a device that intercepts the signal, have something (like a pc and and decryptor) breaking the encryption and decoding the message to plainvoice (or data if it's a data packet).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09...rack_gsm_code/
References:
http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml
http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/tdma/
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/TDMA.html
http://www.arcx.com/sites/CDMAvsTDMA.htm
....
As for stealing the ESN. It's like MAC Spoofing on a WiFi connection. The signal crashes when two are using it. If you use another ESN number, the only purpose would be to use someone else's account to make calls or intercept calls (since the network will only choose one phone and send the call there)
....
As for the talking in some fastfood places headsets or fastfood intercoms, they are using old transmitters working on the 900mhz band. Most places have now switched to the 2.4ghz headsets which have auto switch channels in case of communication collisions
The frequencies for phones varie between type of service (GSM, CDMA, TDMA) and where you are physically located (850, 900, 1800, & 1900mhz):
http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roa...bandphones.htm
Each provider does have his own set of frequency channels to use, and secures them with their technology and the technology available for their feed:
http://www.gsmworld.com/using/algorithms/index.shtml
What has to be done is you have to crack the encryption on the signal and take in the feed. It's not as simple as picking up a radio scanner or portable phone on an older 900mhz frequency (now all phones are 2.4ghz) like it used to be with analog cell phones.
The only way someone can eavesdrop is by having a device that intercepts the signal, have something (like a pc and and decryptor) breaking the encryption and decoding the message to plainvoice (or data if it's a data packet).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09...rack_gsm_code/
References:
http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml
http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/tdma/
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/TDMA.html
http://www.arcx.com/sites/CDMAvsTDMA.htm
....
As for stealing the ESN. It's like MAC Spoofing on a WiFi connection. The signal crashes when two are using it. If you use another ESN number, the only purpose would be to use someone else's account to make calls or intercept calls (since the network will only choose one phone and send the call there)
....
As for the talking in some fastfood places headsets or fastfood intercoms, they are using old transmitters working on the 900mhz band. Most places have now switched to the 2.4ghz headsets which have auto switch channels in case of communication collisions
Cell phones today cannot be listened too. At least one you bought in the last 2 years since they don't sell analog insecure phones anymore. So at least the digital ones CANNOT be listened too. If someone says they can, they are full of **** and NSA and the FBI would like to talk to you because they can't untile it is decoded right before entering the PSTN, so even land lines connecting the towers are encrypted. Someone can duplicate your ESN in some circumstances but they also need your SIM card so what if they do, it's right on your phone sticker anyway.
Coordless phones you can listen too. With analog cell systems that was not the case, in fact those phones used the same technology that coordless wall-mart phones use. And any old radio shack POS scanner could pick them up. People do not buy the encrypted phones because they cost too much. I doubt you can pick up coordless phones on a tv unless they are really old. VHF and UHF tv recievers don't tune that high. ESPECIALLY 2.4 ghz. Impossible. Not to mention the modulation techniques are different. But back in the day they were VHF. But today no way a tv cannot tune that high.
Cell phones today are little computers with fast processors and a lot of power. If you want security buy Nextel their encryption cannot be broken, the system is scrubbed every 24 hours and there is only a small area where it can be intercepted. About 2 feet of digital PSK before it's put on the SS7 telephone network.
When I am bored I jam the local drive through at Wendys and talk over their coordless headsets. They are just walki talkies like FMRS. It's like saying you beak into FMRS when you all share the same limited set of frequencies. At least to beak into something you would have to force their radios to unsquelch if they are coded to listen to certain tone combinations.
My opinions... :D
Don't think so.Quote:
Kevin Mitnick was caught by cell phone triangulation wasn't he
Cell phones today cannot be listened too. At least one you bought in the last 2 years since they don't sell analog insecure phones anymore. So at least the digital ones CANNOT be listened too. If someone says they can, they are full of **** and NSA and the FBI would like to talk to you because they can't untile it is decoded right before entering the PSTN, so even land lines connecting the towers are encrypted. Someone can duplicate your ESN in some circumstances but they also need your SIM card so what if they do, it's right on your phone sticker anyway.
Coordless phones you can listen too. With analog cell systems that was not the case, in fact those phones used the same technology that coordless wall-mart phones use. And any old radio shack POS scanner could pick them up. People do not buy the encrypted phones because they cost too much. I doubt you can pick up coordless phones on a tv unless they are really old. VHF and UHF tv recievers don't tune that high. ESPECIALLY 2.4 ghz. Impossible. Not to mention the modulation techniques are different. But back in the day they were VHF. But today no way a tv cannot tune that high.
Cell phones today are little computers with fast processors and a lot of power. If you want security buy Nextel their encryption cannot be broken, the system is scrubbed every 24 hours and there is only a small area where it can be intercepted. About 2 feet of digital PSK before it's put on the SS7 telephone network.
When I am bored I jam the local drive through at Wendys and talk over their coordless headsets. They are just walki talkies like FMRS. It's like saying you beak into FMRS when you all share the same limited set of frequencies. At least to beak into something you would have to force their radios to unsquelch if they are coded to listen to certain tone combinations.
My opinions... :D
Don't think so.Quote:
Kevin Mitnick was caught by cell phone triangulation wasn't he
If my memory serves me correctly, I beleive there was a way to intercept bluetooth frequencies or something... I remember reading that bluetooth is very insecure... Can anyone confirm this?
If my memory serves me correctly, I beleive there was a way to intercept bluetooth frequencies or something... I remember reading that bluetooth is very insecure... Can anyone confirm this?
It is possible. A quick search on Google gave a few examples on how to do it. (I found some pretty scary stuff out there that I will not post. Don't want the dang Skiddies to see them)Quote:
Originally posted here by The Duck
If my memory serves me correctly, I beleive there was a way to intercept bluetooth frequencies or something... I remember reading that bluetooth is very insecure... Can anyone confirm this?
Dang Skiddies!
-Deeboe
It is possible. A quick search on Google gave a few examples on how to do it. (I found some pretty scary stuff out there that I will not post. Don't want the dang Skiddies to see them)Quote:
Originally posted here by The Duck
If my memory serves me correctly, I beleive there was a way to intercept bluetooth frequencies or something... I remember reading that bluetooth is very insecure... Can anyone confirm this?
Dang Skiddies!
-Deeboe
Hi there The Duck to answer your question just do a google search for the following :Quote:
If my memory serves me correctly, I beleive there was a way to intercept bluetooth frequencies or something... I remember reading that bluetooth is very insecure... Can anyone confirm this?
[1] Bluejacking
[2] Bluesnarfing
[3] Bluebugging
Serious flaws in bluetooth security lead to disclosure of personal data
some interesting stuff indeed ....
Hi there The Duck to answer your question just do a google search for the following :Quote:
If my memory serves me correctly, I beleive there was a way to intercept bluetooth frequencies or something... I remember reading that bluetooth is very insecure... Can anyone confirm this?
[1] Bluejacking
[2] Bluesnarfing
[3] Bluebugging
Serious flaws in bluetooth security lead to disclosure of personal data
some interesting stuff indeed ....
I remember a few months ago I was doing some personal research about cell phone security and what I can remeber is the different cell phone technologies, which make it harder or easier to listen in on convos.
The Technologies are:
FDMA
TDMA
CDMA
According to the How Stuff Works they work as follows:
FDMA puts each call on a separate frequency.
TDMA assigns each call a certain portion of time on a designated frequency.
CDMA gives a unique code to each call and spreads it over the available frequencies.
This website http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~elec301/...a/compare.html has some charts that show how the technologies work.
As far as I know most phones today use GSM (Which uses FDMA and TDMA) or CDMA.
And with that said here is the difficulty of someone being able to listen in on your conversation, depending on what technology your phone is using, according to http://www.moonraker.com.au/techni/cdma.htm
Quote:
With FDMA a signal can be detected simply by using an off-the-shelf scanner. TDMA detection is more difficult but not impossible for the expert. Obviously CDMA privacy is much better. It is very difficult to locate calls in the noise stream let alone crack the code to gain illegal access to the data you want.
CDMA tapping is possible, although it has it's limitations read on: http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=249360
I remember a few months ago I was doing some personal research about cell phone security and what I can remeber is the different cell phone technologies, which make it harder or easier to listen in on convos.
The Technologies are:
FDMA
TDMA
CDMA
According to the How Stuff Works they work as follows:
FDMA puts each call on a separate frequency.
TDMA assigns each call a certain portion of time on a designated frequency.
CDMA gives a unique code to each call and spreads it over the available frequencies.
This website http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~elec301/...a/compare.html has some charts that show how the technologies work.
As far as I know most phones today use GSM (Which uses FDMA and TDMA) or CDMA.
And with that said here is the difficulty of someone being able to listen in on your conversation, depending on what technology your phone is using, according to http://www.moonraker.com.au/techni/cdma.htm
Quote:
With FDMA a signal can be detected simply by using an off-the-shelf scanner. TDMA detection is more difficult but not impossible for the expert. Obviously CDMA privacy is much better. It is very difficult to locate calls in the noise stream let alone crack the code to gain illegal access to the data you want.
CDMA tapping is possible, although it has it's limitations read on: http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=249360