looks like SOny wasn't the only one for adding a rootkit

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Symantec Corp. has fessed up to using a rootkit-type feature in Norton SystemWorks that could provide the perfect hiding place for attackers to place malicious files on computers.
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The anti-virus vendor acknowledged that it was deliberately hiding a directory from Windows APIs as a feature to stop customers from accidentally deleting files but, prompted by warnings from security experts, the company shipped a SystemWorks update to eliminate the risk.

Symantec, of Cupertino, Calif., is the second commercial company caught in the flap over the use of rootkit-type techniques to hide files on computers. Rootkits are programs that are used to give a remote user access to a compromised system while avoiding detection from security scanners.

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Source

Another nail for Norton............ :mad:

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Symantec Corp. has fessed up to using a rootkit-type feature in Norton SystemWorks that could provide the perfect hiding place for attackers to place malicious files on computers.
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The anti-virus vendor acknowledged that it was deliberately hiding a directory from Windows APIs as a feature to stop customers from accidentally deleting files but, prompted by warnings from security experts, the company shipped a SystemWorks update to eliminate the risk.

Symantec, of Cupertino, Calif., is the second commercial company caught in the flap over the use of rootkit-type techniques to hide files on computers. Rootkits are programs that are used to give a remote user access to a compromised system while avoiding detection from security scanners.

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Source

Another nail for Norton............ :mad:

I'm absolutely no fan of Norton but while it opened up the potential for "mischeif" it was done with an entirely different goal in mind to that of Sony..... The intent was protection.

Software has been hiding things since Pontius was a Pilot.... It's nothing new.... This is just more FUD to keep you reading.....

I'm absolutely no fan of Norton but while it opened up the potential for "mischeif" it was done with an entirely different goal in mind to that of Sony..... The intent was protection.

Software has been hiding things since Pontius was a Pilot.... It's nothing new.... This is just more FUD to keep you reading.....

Hey Hey,

This is funny because I just finished reading the F-Secure Weblog and the eweek article and was coming here to post about it...

I have to agree with Tiger Shark here... I had always thought that the protected recycle bin and nprotect were fairly well known... it's not like Norton has ever tried to hide their existence...

I really don't think it's fair to lump Sony and Norton into the same category here...

Hell I Remember a program called Magic Folders... when I was living at home I used to use it to hide my porn from my parents.... Open Magic Folders, select the folders.. suddenly those folders were hidden.... No one could see them... except that software.... Is that a rootkit too???

I don't think it's fair to call it a "rootkit type" feature.... it's not similar to a rootkit at all... Does it allow you access to the system?? Nope.. it hides itself.. that's all... It's also not a rootkit technique... Norton/Symantec were doing it a lot longer than rootkits were... It's their technique...

It's all a bunch of BS.... even F-Secure and SysInternals (both credited with finding it) are saying that this has been blown out of the water by the media...

Peace,
HT

Hey Hey,

This is funny because I just finished reading the F-Secure Weblog and the eweek article and was coming here to post about it...

I have to agree with Tiger Shark here... I had always thought that the protected recycle bin and nprotect were fairly well known... it's not like Norton has ever tried to hide their existence...

I really don't think it's fair to lump Sony and Norton into the same category here...

Hell I Remember a program called Magic Folders... when I was living at home I used to use it to hide my porn from my parents.... Open Magic Folders, select the folders.. suddenly those folders were hidden.... No one could see them... except that software.... Is that a rootkit too???

I don't think it's fair to call it a "rootkit type" feature.... it's not similar to a rootkit at all... Does it allow you access to the system?? Nope.. it hides itself.. that's all... It's also not a rootkit technique... Norton/Symantec were doing it a lot longer than rootkits were... It's their technique...

It's all a bunch of BS.... even F-Secure and SysInternals (both credited with finding it) are saying that this has been blown out of the water by the media...

Peace,
HT

I agree, but I think people should be aware of this:

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He confirmed Russinovich's contention that more and more legitimate commercial vendors are using cloaking mechanisms, warning that it is a "dangerous trend," even if the it's not an offensive, malicious rootkit.

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It's just 2 that we are now aware of, regardless of their intentions, I think the point Russinovich is making is valid, the box is mine, not for someone else to put stuff on it without my knowledge, so if Norton and Sony had been upfront prior to your installing the product (out of the box ,unlike OEM's) then fine."buyer beware".

I agree, but I think people should be aware of this:

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He confirmed Russinovich's contention that more and more legitimate commercial vendors are using cloaking mechanisms, warning that it is a "dangerous trend," even if the it's not an offensive, malicious rootkit.

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It's just 2 that we are now aware of, regardless of their intentions, I think the point Russinovich is making is valid, the box is mine, not for someone else to put stuff on it without my knowledge, so if Norton and Sony had been upfront prior to your installing the product (out of the box ,unlike OEM's) then fine."buyer beware".

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the box is mine, not for someone else to put stuff on it without my knowledge

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Then the answer is simple Dalek.... Write your own OS and all your own apps....

How on earth was Norton putting something on your box without your knowledge.... You _bought_ the freaking software!!!!! Duh.... ;)

Sony was an _entirely_ different issue - people bought a CD presumably because they wanted to hear music. They did not expect that when it was put into a computer it would install software.... The difference is quite clear.

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the box is mine, not for someone else to put stuff on it without my knowledge

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Then the answer is simple Dalek.... Write your own OS and all your own apps....

How on earth was Norton putting something on your box without your knowledge.... You _bought_ the freaking software!!!!! Duh.... ;)

Sony was an _entirely_ different issue - people bought a CD presumably because they wanted to hear music. They did not expect that when it was put into a computer it would install software.... The difference is quite clear.

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Originally posted here by dalek
I agree, but I think people should be aware of this:



It's just 2 that we are now aware of, regardless of their intentions, I think the point Russinovich is making is valid, the box is mine, not for someone else to put stuff on it without my knowledge, so if Norton and Sony had been upfront prior to your installing the product (out of the box ,unlike OEM's) then fine."buyer beware".

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Tiger's got it again.... Norton has never hidden the Protected Recycling Bin... all you had to do was look to see how it functioned.... And again... it's not a bad thing... it was actually a good thing... you have to weight the risk vs the gain and I think for your average end user that the Protected Recycling Bin was a very good thing.. it saved a lot of asses from deleting files.... In reality.... it should have been left as is and instead of removing it with the update... the method of hiding it should have been shared with major AV / AntiSpyware vendors... allowing them to make it temporarily visible for scanning purposes....

Peace,
HT

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Originally posted here by dalek
I agree, but I think people should be aware of this:



It's just 2 that we are now aware of, regardless of their intentions, I think the point Russinovich is making is valid, the box is mine, not for someone else to put stuff on it without my knowledge, so if Norton and Sony had been upfront prior to your installing the product (out of the box ,unlike OEM's) then fine."buyer beware".

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Tiger's got it again.... Norton has never hidden the Protected Recycling Bin... all you had to do was look to see how it functioned.... And again... it's not a bad thing... it was actually a good thing... you have to weight the risk vs the gain and I think for your average end user that the Protected Recycling Bin was a very good thing.. it saved a lot of asses from deleting files.... In reality.... it should have been left as is and instead of removing it with the update... the method of hiding it should have been shared with major AV / AntiSpyware vendors... allowing them to make it temporarily visible for scanning purposes....

Peace,
HT

Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, and please do, but isnt the contents of nortons protected recycle bin visible on the computers desktop, and flushable, as well as bypassable through the right click delete options.
For what its worth, I heard they patched that issue today. With their given history, I'll take their word for it. Now if you want me to explode into a giant ball of flames get me started on the sony rootkit....

Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, and please do, but isnt the contents of nortons protected recycle bin visible on the computers desktop, and flushable, as well as bypassable through the right click delete options.
For what its worth, I heard they patched that issue today. With their given history, I'll take their word for it. Now if you want me to explode into a giant ball of flames get me started on the sony rootkit....

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How on earth was Norton putting something on your box without your knowledge.... You _bought_ the freaking software!!!!! Duh....

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Hey Tiger Shark, have a wet...I was paraphrasing Russinovich, you guys make it sound like I went out..... bought Norton software and made myself unaware of what it was putting on my PC.....geez louises.....I only posted the article, so others could be aware that it's quite possible that other commercial software out there could do the same thing, ***** take a pill will ya.......... :rolleyes:

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How on earth was Norton putting something on your box without your knowledge.... You _bought_ the freaking software!!!!! Duh....

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Hey Tiger Shark, have a wet...I was paraphrasing Russinovich, you guys make it sound like I went out..... bought Norton software and made myself unaware of what it was putting on my PC.....geez louises.....I only posted the article, so others could be aware that it's quite possible that other commercial software out there could do the same thing, ***** take a pill will ya.......... :rolleyes:

That is a good point... It does make you wonder how many other companies are distributing software that causes serious vulnerabilities on your system... How many of these security suites actually open holes as opposed to closing them up? Although, it is relieving that Norton's intentions were not as devious as Sony's. It just goes to show that regardless of intent, no software is perfect.

That is a good point... It does make you wonder how many other companies are distributing software that causes serious vulnerabilities on your system... How many of these security suites actually open holes as opposed to closing them up? Although, it is relieving that Norton's intentions were not as devious as Sony's. It just goes to show that regardless of intent, no software is perfect.

for people who are worried about rootkits etc etc etc, this has been posted before but go to http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/200...al-rights.html
want to know how many companies are installing rootkits? read this article fully and if you feel like it get all the tools this guy has written. the sony article i found on here in like october i think took me to this site. so check it out, it has proggies for detecting and removing them.

for people who are worried about rootkits etc etc etc, this has been posted before but go to http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/200...al-rights.html
want to know how many companies are installing rootkits? read this article fully and if you feel like it get all the tools this guy has written. the sony article i found on here in like october i think took me to this site. so check it out, it has proggies for detecting and removing them.