CNN.
An alarming article to say the least... the leader in national security 'inadvertently' spying on its users? Heh.. give me a break. The article is very well written, I suggest giving it your time.
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CNN.
An alarming article to say the least... the leader in national security 'inadvertently' spying on its users? Heh.. give me a break. The article is very well written, I suggest giving it your time.
CNN.
An alarming article to say the least... the leader in national security 'inadvertently' spying on its users? Heh.. give me a break. The article is very well written, I suggest giving it your time.
There was a thread here late last year that touched on this topic..
It turned into a 'trust your .gov the islamo-fashists are the enemy' and 'it`s the browser maker`s fault' thing before there was any good conversation though..
I agree that .gov's should set an example..Quote:
"Considering the surveillance power the NSA has, cookies are not exactly a major concern," said Ari Schwartz, associate director at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a privacy advocacy group in Washington, D.C. "But it does show a general lack of understanding about privacy rules when they are not even following the government's very basic rules for Web privacy."
And there for should be the first to implement their own rules !
But this kind of thing pales in comparisson to the freedoms the US citisens seem to be willing to offer to their government in return for a temporary feeling of security..
With the new phone tap bills and all..
There was a thread here late last year that touched on this topic..
It turned into a 'trust your .gov the islamo-fashists are the enemy' and 'it`s the browser maker`s fault' thing before there was any good conversation though..
I agree that .gov's should set an example..Quote:
"Considering the surveillance power the NSA has, cookies are not exactly a major concern," said Ari Schwartz, associate director at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a privacy advocacy group in Washington, D.C. "But it does show a general lack of understanding about privacy rules when they are not even following the government's very basic rules for Web privacy."
And there for should be the first to implement their own rules !
But this kind of thing pales in comparisson to the freedoms the US citisens seem to be willing to offer to their government in return for a temporary feeling of security..
With the new phone tap bills and all..
Just found an interesting article just published discussing the NSA spying more in depth:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011201520.html
And a couple of interesting blerbs:
:pQuote:
President Bush said Wednesday, for example, that he would welcome a congressional investigation of his authority to order the NSA program, saying it would be "good for democracy." That was a sharp change in tone from the initial White House response, which was to demand an investigation into who had leaked the story to the New York Times.
:cool:Quote:
An abiding theme of American history is the tension between our constitutional freedoms and our national security in wartime. The country is beginning a new chapter in that debate, and the challenge will be the same as always: to use tools that can enhance security, but in a way that does not unduly diminish liberty.
Also many of us applied and either received or will receive a kit from the NSA - so that just authorizes them to spy on us all they want - right?!?
The NSA kit thread to which I refer gentle readers: http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=271726
Just found an interesting article just published discussing the NSA spying more in depth:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011201520.html
And a couple of interesting blerbs:
:pQuote:
President Bush said Wednesday, for example, that he would welcome a congressional investigation of his authority to order the NSA program, saying it would be "good for democracy." That was a sharp change in tone from the initial White House response, which was to demand an investigation into who had leaked the story to the New York Times.
:cool:Quote:
An abiding theme of American history is the tension between our constitutional freedoms and our national security in wartime. The country is beginning a new chapter in that debate, and the challenge will be the same as always: to use tools that can enhance security, but in a way that does not unduly diminish liberty.
Also many of us applied and either received or will receive a kit from the NSA - so that just authorizes them to spy on us all they want - right?!?
The NSA kit thread to which I refer gentle readers: http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=271726
It really shouldnt come as any suprise, its what us 'paranoids' have been telling the rest of the world for years now. As for the change in tone now welcoming an investigation that probably indicates that anything too horribly incriminating or damaging has been taken care of and no longer poses too bad of a PR nightmare. It is quite true that we shouldnt be that concerned about cookies when the NSA possess a far more advanced system of snooping which can go far beyond just placing cookies on our computers.
It really shouldnt come as any suprise, its what us 'paranoids' have been telling the rest of the world for years now. As for the change in tone now welcoming an investigation that probably indicates that anything too horribly incriminating or damaging has been taken care of and no longer poses too bad of a PR nightmare. It is quite true that we shouldnt be that concerned about cookies when the NSA possess a far more advanced system of snooping which can go far beyond just placing cookies on our computers.
Ok...how bout conspiracy theory here....
NSA...releases worms to infect as many users as they can...to spy on them.... :eek:
Personally...I wouldnt put it past Busypoo
MLF
Ok...how bout conspiracy theory here....
NSA...releases worms to infect as many users as they can...to spy on them.... :eek:
Personally...I wouldnt put it past Busypoo
MLF
Uhm, many people around here get uptight when "we US citizens" stereotype or assume the rest of the world is exactly like we are. I think it is only fair that we get uptight when the same thing is leveled at us.Quote:
Originally posted here by the_JinX
But this kind of thing pales in comparisson to the freedoms the US citisens seem to be willing to offer to their government in return for a temporary feeling of security..
With the new phone tap bills and all..
I am completely UNwilling to simply hand over my freedoms for feelings of temporary security. I think the gov't has wasted a TON of money on the TSA and the bullshit we have to go through to get on a plane nowadays, while not investing enough in actual intelligence and operations to thwarte those who don't like the symbol the US has become.
I am personally dissapointed in the way the US government has handled a lot of things in the last 4 or 5 years. I love my country...but I'm not a fan of my countries government. And before anyone starts bitching that I should do something about it...I have; I vote, I support people and groups I believe in, I write to my representatives.
</soapbox>
Uhm, many people around here get uptight when "we US citizens" stereotype or assume the rest of the world is exactly like we are. I think it is only fair that we get uptight when the same thing is leveled at us.Quote:
Originally posted here by the_JinX
But this kind of thing pales in comparisson to the freedoms the US citisens seem to be willing to offer to their government in return for a temporary feeling of security..
With the new phone tap bills and all..
I am completely UNwilling to simply hand over my freedoms for feelings of temporary security. I think the gov't has wasted a TON of money on the TSA and the bullshit we have to go through to get on a plane nowadays, while not investing enough in actual intelligence and operations to thwarte those who don't like the symbol the US has become.
I am personally dissapointed in the way the US government has handled a lot of things in the last 4 or 5 years. I love my country...but I'm not a fan of my countries government. And before anyone starts bitching that I should do something about it...I have; I vote, I support people and groups I believe in, I write to my representatives.
</soapbox>
I didn't see anything overt, covert or implied that authorized the NSA to take any type of action in relation to intelligence gathering in exchange for that package. I think this is a long stretch to make a link, even for a consipiracy theorist.Quote:
Originally posted here by genXer
Also many of us applied and either received or will receive a kit from the NSA - so that just authorizes them to spy on us all they want - right?!?
Keep in mind that the NSA group that performed the surveillance was under law enforcement orders with secret presidential approval.
Granted, they have the capability to do a great many things. But, getting information on me would be trivial for them. I have no reason to hide anything and the government has very large package of information on me from near 15 years of military service. I've had numerous FBI background checks, largely because I was responsible for various armory vaults and millions of dollars of armored hardware and explosives.
I have a driver's license, a social security number, multiple marriages and a couple divorces. That is all public record to some degree or other. It makes it very easy for a government agency, expecially an intelligence agency, to track me down or monitor me if they so desire.
But, I'm just one dude among 300 or so million. Aside from my devastating good looks and all, what would they want with me?
So, genXer, what are you worried about? hmmm .......?
;)
I didn't see anything overt, covert or implied that authorized the NSA to take any type of action in relation to intelligence gathering in exchange for that package. I think this is a long stretch to make a link, even for a consipiracy theorist.Quote:
Originally posted here by genXer
Also many of us applied and either received or will receive a kit from the NSA - so that just authorizes them to spy on us all they want - right?!?
Keep in mind that the NSA group that performed the surveillance was under law enforcement orders with secret presidential approval.
Granted, they have the capability to do a great many things. But, getting information on me would be trivial for them. I have no reason to hide anything and the government has very large package of information on me from near 15 years of military service. I've had numerous FBI background checks, largely because I was responsible for various armory vaults and millions of dollars of armored hardware and explosives.
I have a driver's license, a social security number, multiple marriages and a couple divorces. That is all public record to some degree or other. It makes it very easy for a government agency, expecially an intelligence agency, to track me down or monitor me if they so desire.
But, I'm just one dude among 300 or so million. Aside from my devastating good looks and all, what would they want with me?
So, genXer, what are you worried about? hmmm .......?
;)
Where to start, where to start :rolleyes:
I'll try to make my standpoint as simple as possible. I think the very thing we hold precious, is what is going to do us in. That thing is civil liberty.
How can we have any kind of security when everyone has "rights". We want this country to protect us from threats to our way of life but, at the same time not infringe on our civil liberties. Profiling is not allowed. If any hint of prejudice is expressed in any fashion, someone is filing a lawsuit. Speaking of which, frivilous lawsuits have just about painted this country into a corner. Everyone is bitching about "rights". Everyone wants "rights" and no one is willing to sacrafice their "rights" for their country. I'm sick of this "Me Me Me" mentality. I personally don't care if it takes an 1 hour longer for me to board an airplane in exchange for that feeling of security. I don't care if they pick me out and search me (which has been done before).
We live in an age where terrorism is no longer "over there", that was clearly displayed on Sept 11, 2001. Terrorists are constantly looking for ways to bring terrorism to my doorstep and I for one, appreciate more security. If that means tapping phones, watching computer activity, monitoring purchases, so be it.
These same liberal asswipes who are bitching about their "rights" go and spend $1.49 on their "support our troops" magnetic car ribbons which most of the proceeds don't even go to our troops, and consider that as serving their country. How f'ing patriotic of you. While I never served, I don't plaster my vehicle with pseudo-patriotic garbage. I donate money directly to the Red Cross Armed Forces Emergency Services and it's more than $1.49. And as an ultimate show of faith, I am willing to sacrafice what I hold dearest in order for this country to protect itself. My civil liberties.
Where to start, where to start :rolleyes:
I'll try to make my standpoint as simple as possible. I think the very thing we hold precious, is what is going to do us in. That thing is civil liberty.
How can we have any kind of security when everyone has "rights". We want this country to protect us from threats to our way of life but, at the same time not infringe on our civil liberties. Profiling is not allowed. If any hint of prejudice is expressed in any fashion, someone is filing a lawsuit. Speaking of which, frivilous lawsuits have just about painted this country into a corner. Everyone is bitching about "rights". Everyone wants "rights" and no one is willing to sacrafice their "rights" for their country. I'm sick of this "Me Me Me" mentality. I personally don't care if it takes an 1 hour longer for me to board an airplane in exchange for that feeling of security. I don't care if they pick me out and search me (which has been done before).
We live in an age where terrorism is no longer "over there", that was clearly displayed on Sept 11, 2001. Terrorists are constantly looking for ways to bring terrorism to my doorstep and I for one, appreciate more security. If that means tapping phones, watching computer activity, monitoring purchases, so be it.
These same liberal asswipes who are bitching about their "rights" go and spend $1.49 on their "support our troops" magnetic car ribbons which most of the proceeds don't even go to our troops, and consider that as serving their country. How f'ing patriotic of you. While I never served, I don't plaster my vehicle with pseudo-patriotic garbage. I donate money directly to the Red Cross Armed Forces Emergency Services and it's more than $1.49. And as an ultimate show of faith, I am willing to sacrafice what I hold dearest in order for this country to protect itself. My civil liberties.
Hmmm,
Sounds like an administrative blunder to me?
1. You would have to visit the site.
2. I doubt if terrorists are the sort to visit the NSA site.
3. In firefox at least you can dump cookies as soon as you exit the browser.
;)
Hmmm,
Sounds like an administrative blunder to me?
1. You would have to visit the site.
2. I doubt if terrorists are the sort to visit the NSA site.
3. In firefox at least you can dump cookies as soon as you exit the browser.
;)
Ummmmmmmm... nothing - yeah that's it. Nothing to see here... heh-heh. I just wanted to mention it is all... yeah that's it.Quote:
So, genXer, what are you worried about? hmmm .......?
...
..
.
*Me shows left sleeve... Nothing here!
*Me shows right sleeve... Nothing here!
*Me takes a flashlight and shines through my ears... Annnnd nothing here!
I just think it interesting how our Commander-In-Chief is almost changing his tune on the matter of spying on Americans. Right after 9/11 people would have not even questioned, however I believe that as time goes on and measures are taken and people move on, we turn back again to realizing we do not want to sacrifice our civil liberties, at least not all, for security. However, if something, God forbid happen like that again to us or another country - will it's citizens be apt to surrender their civil liberties to gain some measure of security or peace of mind believing they are secure? I will venture out at this point to say "Yes" - I certainly do not agree with that practice - I am just thinking people might react that way.
Like in IT, security and functionality, (i.e., secure happy living), needs to be done in a balance. At this point, it appears our government is leaning more towards security, while negating the fact people want to eat, drink and be merry... or be with Mary; or both.
Besides - they already have my DNA on file - and I lost a bet and my clones get to work in Cali while I freeze... clones are such cheaters.
Ummmmmmmm... nothing - yeah that's it. Nothing to see here... heh-heh. I just wanted to mention it is all... yeah that's it.Quote:
So, genXer, what are you worried about? hmmm .......?
...
..
.
*Me shows left sleeve... Nothing here!
*Me shows right sleeve... Nothing here!
*Me takes a flashlight and shines through my ears... Annnnd nothing here!
I just think it interesting how our Commander-In-Chief is almost changing his tune on the matter of spying on Americans. Right after 9/11 people would have not even questioned, however I believe that as time goes on and measures are taken and people move on, we turn back again to realizing we do not want to sacrifice our civil liberties, at least not all, for security. However, if something, God forbid happen like that again to us or another country - will it's citizens be apt to surrender their civil liberties to gain some measure of security or peace of mind believing they are secure? I will venture out at this point to say "Yes" - I certainly do not agree with that practice - I am just thinking people might react that way.
Like in IT, security and functionality, (i.e., secure happy living), needs to be done in a balance. At this point, it appears our government is leaning more towards security, while negating the fact people want to eat, drink and be merry... or be with Mary; or both.
Besides - they already have my DNA on file - and I lost a bet and my clones get to work in Cali while I freeze... clones are such cheaters.
To be honest, they really can't take your civil liberties away, if'n ya don't want 'em to take 'em. Some folks get all in a huff about this. Even I get a little bent out of shape with CALEA and some other issues. But, in the end, they can only take what they can pry from your cold, dead fingers.
As long as you are a living, free human being, you choose your own way and destiny.
Be happy.
Have a nice weekend.
To be honest, they really can't take your civil liberties away, if'n ya don't want 'em to take 'em. Some folks get all in a huff about this. Even I get a little bent out of shape with CALEA and some other issues. But, in the end, they can only take what they can pry from your cold, dead fingers.
As long as you are a living, free human being, you choose your own way and destiny.
Be happy.
Have a nice weekend.
From McNews:
Link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/01/17/aclu.nsa/index.htmlQuote:
ACLU sues over NSA eavesdropping program
Lead in:
Link to the pdf from the ACLU on it's complaint: http://www.aclu.org/images/nsaspying...e137_23491.pdfQuote:
Complaint: Bush exceeded authority with warrantless wiretaps
(CNN) -- The American Civil Liberties Union on Tuesday said it had filed suit against the National Security Agency, alleging that its warrantless wiretapping program is unconstitutional and that President Bush, in authorizing it, exceeded his constitutional authority.
Funny that I just watched former Vice-President Gore comment on NSA spying - and then the lawsuit by the ACLU - it almost seems like a Tom Clancy movie the way this is all playing out.
Well, the ACLU can file suit, but the federal government can refuse the suit. So, it is just a publicity play.
I'm not sure why Gore commented on this, other than to keep his name in the press. The Clinton administration did similar things ... probably not as much or as blatant.
the time to worry is when you CAN'T find stories like these :eek:
Although I'm a Brit, I feel that the American way of life as was HAS ended
you will have to accept that this 'new' world we live in is full of those people who would prefer you dead .............
Did we have some "rats" noring at the wires on page one?
Only for a pretty average thread, the APs seamed to fly.
Hi jinxyQuote:
Originally posted here by jinxy
Did we have some "rats" noring at the wires on page one?
Only for a pretty average thread, the APs seamed to fly.
I think this thread will explain things for ya http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=273167
I see, "said the blind man".
Still a good idea, pose an argument and shoot down, literaly, those that dont agree. From multiple points?
Is this the work of, "incontinent one".
Nah...I believe it was the work of this individual:http://www.antionline.com/member.php...ter&forumid=72
Seems like someone who is clued up!, to me. Why the fuss??
I clicked on the "CNN" link in the first post to read the article and my Virus scan immediately detected a trojan exploit. How's that for paranoia? :mad:
You do check the URL before just clicking on any links right..... ;) Money for NothingQuote:
Originally posted here by judgement
I clicked on the "CNN" link in the first post to read the article and my Virus scan immediately detected a trojan exploit. How's that for paranoia? :mad:
I usually check the url, but when 10 or more people have already replied talking about the article, I figure it's safe to click. Little did I know the link got switched at some point :P.
There are a couple posts above that reference another thread that talks about what has/may have happened here. Check 'em out.
I heard an ACLU press conference this morning in reference to the ACLU suit against the White House and wiretaps. One sentence from the ACLU representative really stuck out in my mind. (Sorry don't have a link)
(Paraphrasing here)
"My clients suspect that they are the targets of unlawful wiretaps and it is up to the White House to prove that it didn't happen."
Now I thought that our rule of law places the burdon of proof onto the prosecution and that the prosecution has to prove that damage was done to their client? Plus there is a presumed (albeit often unwarranted) assumption of innocence until proven guilty. Even more puzzling and perhaps why there a presumption of innocence, is that if these clients were not targets of the wiretaps, then how does the government prove that it did not happen. I thought it was theoretically impossible to prove a negative?
Hey "AO member - Negative" Can you prove that you really exist? :D I might let you quote DesCartes (sp?)
Seriously though, I do believe that the Administration should have brought the targeted wiretaps to the attention of the FISA court within the 72 hours alloted by FISA. But this is also not settled law either. Historically most cases of this ilk noting judicial precedent have fallen favorably for the Government and the President's Executive Powers. "Shrug"
OverdueSpy
I have not killed you...........this I shall prove to the court by emptying this 9mm automatic weapon into your scabby carcass.............if you are THEN found to be DOA, I could not have done it previously?
It is a rocky road that they tread methinks?
Time to sick the IRS onto the bastiges I would say. Hell, if you are government, you have the whip hand...........so crack it?
:D