RAM Related Issues

I need some help on this and I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.
Ok, here goes: Mother has a 6 year old Dell Dimension XPS B1000
Some stats:
Pentium III
128 MG RAM
Windows ME (I know...I know)
Anyway, this thing is getting horrid. It's constantly crashing. It's already been re-formatted twice and even with only installing what my mother needs on it (which is some picture editing programs (Adobe mainly) and some other basics, it still keeps returning to a dysfunctional (crashing often) status. Here's my questions. Without upgrading to a new computer, or OS, or motherboard, what the hell can I do to this thing to enhance perofrmance? She's very tough minded and doesn't want to go spend a ton of money on a new OS or computer because she barely uses it as is. Very minimal internet usage. Basically she uses the computer for picture editing (She's a camera buff) and checking email.
I've tried a little program called Free RAM Optimizer XP but I'm not sure if there any inherent dangers when messing around with RAM. I don't really know what %RAM the computer needs to function at a basic level, so I don't even know the % RAM limits to set this program to free up. I've also used a variety of system maintenance tools to clean up the registry and the hardrive to no avail. I've also used MSCONFIG to minimize everything at startup & I've minimized all the background processes so that almost nothing is running outside of her security programs & essentials. If anyone has any suggestions (outside of the obvious...throw the damn thing out the window :eek: ) , I'm all ears.

You need to explain how it "crashes" does it freeze or blue screen or reboot or what. And the cheapest upgrade is always memory. It couldnt hurt to throw another 128 in that bad boy. It is only a PIII so say you got a new motherboard you would need a new cpu and memory so thats almost a new computer. But they do make motherboards with cpus for about $120 so if you threw in 256-512 ram and what ever that costs you could have a 2600+ with a cheap motherboard/memory

get a copy of Windows 2000 Pro [very cheap nowadays]
ME is OK for games, but NOT for internet access, of any duration ......

get another stick of RAM [to give 256MB] 128 is OK, but more IS better.

have you ran any S/W to determine why the system is crashing ? [PC Check etc]
strip the unit down, full clean and re-build
check the fans are all OK [CPU / PSU / GPX if fitted]

D/L the basic securty tools, AdAware / SpyBot S+D / CWShredder
get a registry cleaner [macecraft have an easy to use one on a free trial reg supreme Pro 1.2] to clean the registry from the beginning so you KNOW it's clean.
if you cannot get her to scan the system each week, then you do it as and when you can.

total cost will be around $40 ish
plus your time

if she is not willing to spend ANYTHING
THEN you re-boot it out the window :D

Hi,

The simplest solution is to increase the RAM to 384 or 512Mb.

Make sure that the machine is turned off when not in use.

Set the RAM optimisation program to monitor/report only

Defragment regularly.

Or, if her software will handle it, ditch ME and go back to Win98SE instead. You should be able to get that for next to nothing these days.

It WILL work......................128Mb is not enough for Win ME.

:)

Well thanks for all the replies thus far.
Oofki:
To answer your question, it freezes. completely. To the point where Ctrl+Alt+Del doesn't even work. I was considering adding another 128 stick in this thing but I'm not sure what the Pentium III's limits are for RAM. I'm assuming the III can handle 256MB RAM?

foxyloxley,
I was considering the RAM upgrade, to 256MB, again not sure if the Pentium III is designed for that. I'm not that educated when it comes to hardware aspects so bear with me. :( As for scans of why the system is crashing, no I haven't performed any. I was the one who reformatted this puppy the last two times and my guess...is this thing simply doesn't have enough RAM. It works fine when it's reformatted but once everything is loaded back in, it starts crashing again. As for security and registry & hardrive, I have done just about everything I can.

Nihil,
I recently defragged this thing, as well as used scan-disk and some registry/hardrive cleaners. Basically, the registry was cleaned of defunct stuff not in use anymore, and optimized. The hardrive was cleaned of junk files and programs that weren't needed.

With a PC that old, you may have a problem finding suitable RAM, i would put my money on you having a stick of SD- PC 100/133, the bonus is if you can find suitable RAM its bound to be cheap as chips! It sounds like a bit of a budget system so check with your MoBo manufacturer what RAM is supported, before you go and get a stick of 1024 DDR400!

I was going to say downgrade (if you can downgrade from Me) to Windows 98SE but Nihil beat me to it again! (its gettin to be a bit of a habbit nihil! grrr)

The problem is picture editing can be a pretty RAM intensive thing.

A few things you could do:

Disable any desktop themes
If you are running norton/mcafee, get rid of em and use a less resource hungry AV/FW,
When you install the OS just put the very very minimum optional components on.
Update any and all drivers for your mother board, maybe even your BIOS although it can be a tricky process on older boxs.
Only have one application running at a time, or as few as possible.
You could use a RAM optimizer but in my experience no good usually comes of using them - ive yet to find a decent one but maybe someone could name one for us!

The best thing you could do is burn your Windows Me Disc!

// The CPU doesnt normaly limit your RAM, it really depends on what your MoBo supports, do you know the make/model of it? If so post it and we can find out what it supports

As Nokia said, it the amount of RAM your computer supports depends on your motherboard not your processor.

My question to you is, how fast is your P3 processor? I have a P3 processor too 567MHz (i once got asked if windows even loads at those speeds [it was a sarcastic joke lol]) with WinXP pro and 192MB of RAM. I do some photo editing here and there, no problem. I haven't formatted in a couple of months.

But I'm going to have to disagree with you Nokia, I don't think it will be too hard finding a compatible RAM stick since my computer is 5 years old and it is no problem finding a SDRAM pc100 stick (I actually once, before i know about computers, accidently bought one that fit into my slot).

But definatly try to upgrade, if you have any questions on RAM compatability I reccomend you check your motherboards manual which should have come with your computer. and if after 5 years, i still have my motherboard manual in mint condition you should still have yours :p

Looks like I am going to have to stand corrected raion, seems PC100 RAM is quite easy to buy!
Guess I just havent needed to buy it in a while!

Thanks for pointing it out tho!

Check the HDD..

Use a tool like HDD regen.. or the HDD manufacturers HDD utility (ie: Seatools for seagate)

A lot of crashes occure during swap file operations (pageing in 9x), I have had drives with minor drive probs cause major OS probs.. oh and scan disk and defrag seem to miss some disk surface errors.... you will find I have a very definite soft spot for HDD regen.. resurected many a "dead" HDD, to allow simple data recovery..

The other possability is a motherboard problem.. have a look for swollen caps on the mobo.. if you have any, follow the advice on replacing the mobo, cpu and ram...
Also when your reloading the OS are you useing the DeLL recovery disk or just a standared MS WinME CD?.. I ask as I have seen many ME installs on HP, Compaq, IBM and Dell survive many years with very few issues, but many oem and self installs die in a short time due to configuration and driver issues..

Well, I have quite a few old boxes with obsolete operating systems on them for research/amusement and the like.

I have a PII/266 128Mb RAM that displays the same symptoms. You have to stoke it like a steam engine :D

A PII/333 (Dell Dimension) and a PII/450.................both have 384Mb and are quite stable.

A home built AMD Duron 1.3 with 512Mb RAM.................it hasn't crashed in about 4 years or more............ it is the Wife's machine, the bloody thing would not dare :D

I also have a Dell Dimension with a 1.7Mhz P4 and 768Mb of RAMBUS PC800 in it........... that puppy is a bit unstable, because it has TOO MUCH RAM but a hell of a lot better than the guy with 128MB.

My rough guide is 256Mb for Win98SE and 384Mb for Win ME. Maximum of 512Mb for both.

Crucial Memory are the people to look at IMHO. Just Google and find your local office..........they have a couple of great memory checking tools and are a good quality provider at excellent prices.

Good delivery and warranty as well, and I can say that having dealt with them for over 6 years.

:)

Oh boy, running intensive applicatons on ME is a big NO NO! :)

Of course SDRAM won't be hard to find, it's not that old... Even SIMM's can still be found out places like tigerdirect...

Now, about your freezing problem... It's either bad RAM or the bad windows ME OS... Both can freeze the same way :p... I'm guessing it's the OS...


To go over what everyone else has basically said:

1. Defrag
2. Disk Cleanup (should be in windows 9x, been forever since I used 9x...)
3. Keep running programs and tasks at a minimum
4 Throw another stick of ram in there (there are programs out there that can tell you your motherboards RAM specifications, many are boot disks so it doesn't matter what OS you got)

If all else fails, downgrading to 98SE is the best option... If I were you I would just forget the extra stick of ram and just downgrade... Or do both...

Alright. Trying to wrap my brains around all the info you guys provided. I appreciate all the help. I think I'll attempt the stick upgrade first (provided the specs on the motherboard indicate I can do so). If that fails, I'll downgrade to 98SE. I'm hoping upgrading the RAM to 256 will suffice but, if need be, 98SE is a feasible option.
As for the speed of the PIII, I'm not sure. I'm not sitting at the computer anymore. I should be heading back to the parental unit's casa in a few days. I can update the specs for you guys then.

Quote:

---

A lot of crashes occure during swap file operations (pageing in 9x)

---

Und3ertak3r, that's what I got from some researching I did. This RAM optimizer program I'm using is supposed to manipulate file operations releasing RAM that is no longer used. Again, I don't like using a RAM optimizing program as a solution because I simply don't think messing with RAM via third party programs is a smart way to go. I really don't know what % of RAM is used by the computer for basic I/O, etc. so I don't know what to set the % to when it frees up RAM.

As for her AV, I got rid of Norton (it was killing the cpu) and loaded up Kaspersky on her machine instead.(btw I used the MS Win ME disc to re-install the OS after the formats.)
I'm starting to look at some RAM stick pricing as I speak so, give me a couple days and I'll see what turns up. I don't think I can buy the stick just yet but, I can update the specs for you guys and do some checking myself to see what the processesor speed is and the motherboard's specs.
Again, thanks for all the help.

Quote:

---

Oh boy, running intensive applicatons on ME is a big NO NO!

---

Err, I think that his Mom is only cataloguing digital camera images? An ME box with 384~512 will handle that. Otherwise for "heavy duty" intensive apps you should look at more memory and Foxy~ 's suggestion of Win 2000.

In fact Foxy~ has the better solution as Win 2000 is closer to XP and that which will come after?

:)

Ah, thanks for the clarification, I kinda just skimmed through the posts...

But running ANYTHING on ME is a big no no lol...

I have an ME box just for amusement :).

OK folks, here it is: :D

http://configurator.memorystock.com/...&modelid=15442

The machine has a 1.0GHz PIII processor and two memory slots. It supports 512Mb.

It uses PC800 RDRAM (RIMMS), which means that you need to use MATCHED PAIRS of memory sticks, so it currently has 2 x 64Mb, and is full.

RDRAM or "RAMBUS" is very expensive. My Dell Dimension has 4 slots and came with 2 x 128 Mb and two "continuity strips". I replaced the continuity strips with 2 x 256Mb that I picked up second hand for about $90.

You should certainly be able to sell the 2 x 64 strips, as RDRAM does have quite a good second hand value. Dell and others always shipped with insufficient memory back then.

Possible solutions:

1. Set memory manager to recover 32Mb when free memory is 12Mb and only run one application at a time. When you are using the machine keep minimising, then maximising the application, as that forces the RAM to be released.

2. Get 2 x 256Mb memory strips (preferably second user)

3. Change the operating system.

Good luck



:)

Hmm you're a bit unlucky that it is running RDRAM.

If you plan on running 98se or 2000 256 is plenty. I ran a P3 with W2000 with 256 for 2-3 years it was perfectly fast enough. If you plan on running more than 256 don't use 98. It can go a bit flakey with big memory sizes.

The instabilities need to be looked into. If you've been reformatting properly and reinstalling the OS clean then even ME should run ok for a while (piece of **** that it is). Pop the case and get a look at who made the HD. Get the test tools from the relevent manufacturer and test teh drive. If may be on it's way out if you are getting a random failures. Get a CDRW if you don't have one and back up all those pictures.

Random failures can also come from faulty memory, hard to test though, especially with RDRAM where you need matched pairs. Also motherboard failures can cause stange problems, pop the case again and check the tops of the capaciters on the motherboard. Look closely for 'rusting' or other coloured blooms on the caps. If you see that, sorry new mobo and with a Dell that really means a new machine, though you could build one from Ebay parts resuing much of what you have.

Sooo

Check mobo
Check HD
Get 256Mb Ram if possible
Change to 98 or preferrably 2000
Gather security tools and install before going online
Go online and update

6 years ain't bad for a PC, so start to plan for a replacement. It may last years or it might go ping next week so hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Here is another US memory supplier:

http://www.edgetechcorp.com/store/Pr...ion/XPS-B1000/

Remember, when they say 128Mb, that is the capacity of the strip, so you get 256Mb, as they only sell them in pairs. The prices are always for a pair or "kit" as they are sometimes called.

The "native" OSes are Win98, NT4.0 and Win 2000, so you could change the OS without any possible conflict with your hardware build. You will notice that ME is not mentioned and that might be part of your problem? It does suffer from memory keaks and is a resource hog at the best of times, and was not shipped with this configuration.

Whatever you do, if you decide to change the OS to Win 2000 make sure that you have the drivers for your mom's camera, printer and any other peripherals.

:)

Man you guys did alot of research for me! :eek: Talked to mother dearest today (she's away on vacation) and she got all excited when I said I was working on her PC to make it quicker. Poor mom just wants the thing to work. lol. But, anyways, I seriously appreciate all the help from everyone.
Nihil, is the RAM stick on the top of that website the one I should get? The 256MB PC-800 Rambus RIMM? The $181.35 one? Money is not a problem, just making sure I get the right stick. Also, I'm assuming I'm buying two sticks? Then removing the old one and installing two new ones? (The hardware aspect of computers is obviously not my forte so pardon any ignorance on my behalf). Again, way to go on finding out all the info on the XPS B1000 for me. :D
You are right, it's a 1GHz Processor, and 128MB RDRAM. This is all factory install BUT, believe it or not, this thing did actually come pre-installed with Windows ME. I'm checking the Packing Slip that came with the original system. And *poof* there it is, Item # 420-8050 Windows Millennium (ME), Factory Install. And yes, it actually came from Dell. The date of the slip is December, 2000.
Ok, now from the guide that came with the original system:

Quote:

---

You can increase your system's memory to a maximum of 512 megabytes (MB) by installing combinations of 2.5-volt (V) 128- and 256-MB PC600, PC700, or PC800 Rambus in-line memory modules (RIMMs) in the RIMM sockets on the system board. You must install a continuity module in any unused memory socket.

---

Believe it or not, the guide was still in it's original shrink wrap. LOL. Anyways, I hope this helps you guys gain a better idea of her setup. I can't thank you guys enough for the help.

Hi there ShagDevil

Thank you for the kind words and appreciation. The pages I pointed you to should have the precise memory for your Mom's PC...............it comes in 64Mb, 128Mb and 256Mb strips, but you can only get them in pairs, so what they say is a half of what you get :)

This machine is only 5 years old...................if your Mom paid what I suspect for that box, I can well understand her reluctance to belly up and get a new one.

I did a bit more reasearch, and found that as new they cost £3,136 over here. That has to be $2,500 with you?

Yes, although Millenium Edition was not around at the time the machine came out, it could be ordered pretty soon afterwards.....................certainly by December 2000 :)

Now, there is a slight deviation here..............it is possible that you might have a box with a single 128Mb strip and a continuity strip. If this is the case it will be a Samsung PC700 strip. If you could get one of those, it should be real cheap :D Anyone who has upgraded will have bought PC800 in matched pairs, so this stuff would be pretty useless?

You need to pop the case and take a look inside. If it is a continuity strip, it will be in the second slot and will be much thinner and without the heatsink surrounding casing.

Whoa, a 200 dollar upgrade for ram... And what if it's not the RAM, It could be faulty RAM slots on the motherboard or HDD, you won't know until after your buy the 200 dollar RAM...

In all honesty, it would probably be best to buy a new computer, and you can get a good low end computer (high end compared to your mother's current computer) for cheap...

Like this one:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...SYXS-DB-988868

And with those spec's it would be the last computer your mother would ever need for what she does, and it comes with XP.... She can't really complain, 6 years is awesome...

Hi TheDuck ......that is the $64,000 question.

Quote:

---

Whoa, a 200 dollar upgrade for ram... And what if it's not the RAM, It could be faulty RAM slots on the motherboard or HDD, you won't know until after your buy the 200 dollar RAM...

---

The situation, as I see it, is that Mom has spent maybe $2,500 on this thing, so a RAM upgrade would only be 10% of the purchase price?

It is an industrial strength box, so you can expect it to have a life of 10 years or more. Given that it is not being used a lot, and obviously kept in a nice indoor domestic home environment, it will probably last forever. OK on the shop floor in an engineering works we would be looking at 18~24 months :)

Why should the RAM slots become faulty?................no upgrading as yet?............if it were the MoBo, why no other strang happenings?........same with the HDD.

Hey, we all know that ME is a resource pig with memory leaks on top, but all you have to do is toss it into a macine with loads of resorce and it WILL behave..........please trust me on that.

Anyway a $200 upgrade for RAM and then put in WIN 2000 and it is sweet? The RAM upgrade will not be wasted, only it might be all that is required. If it is the HDD, so what another $60?

It is NOT the MoBo ;)

I was using the mobo and HDD as examples, but just because you havn't been pulling ram out and putting them back doesn't mean ram slots can't go faulty...

It just seems more cost efficient IMHO to go with the 600 dollar new computer, you get 1 gig of ram, 3.0ghz P4, windows XP professional... And if she needs anymore upgrades in the future to that machine it's not likely to cost her 200 bucks ;).

Yes, I see your point, but you have obviously not had much experience in dealing with older persons :D

Quote:

---

t just seems more cost efficient IMHO to go with the 600 dollar new computer

---

She spent $2500 when that was like $3200 these days. She will not want to scrap it? She would probably prefer to spend $200 (although I believe it could be done for less) than write off the money.

Over here, it would not be an issue...................6 years is not acceptable.....and the LAW says that..............it would not be accepted with a car, a fridge, a radio, a TV..............so dont accept it.

Consumers and small furry animals have rights as well.

:p

Yes, I realize after posting my last comment that I am still young and have yet to learn the ways of "the old people", and that you have far more experience with their kind then I will ever have for quite some time ;).

Well to all who have partaken in this thread, I have a new flash. Was talking to some other family members and we decided to just go with a new computer. Going to try and save the peripherals (monitor, keyboard, meese, etc.) and just upgrade the tower. We found some good deals at Dell and figured spending the extra money would be worth it. I forget the specs on the tower we found but, it's a nice one. In addition to that, this tower comes with XP Media Edition which we figure should be perfect for mom.
As brought up by some members in this thread, spending all that money and finding out, it didn't solve the problem would stink. I think the new tower has 1Gig processor, 160G hardrive, some reserve hidden 160G hardrive (I don't know exactly what that is), etc. etc. All the good stuff. Figures, I finally had a plan of attack to save the old battleship and Cappy says "just sink the damn thing, we got us a new ship".
Thanks anyways everyone. :D

Well, I would keep the old one and downgrade to 98SE anyway, that should solve most of your problems. I don't think you'll need the ram upgrade with 98SE, especially since you have RDRAM, 128 mb of RDRAM is enough for 98SE...

Glad you guys got a new computer, Care to share the price? I would like to compare the new computer as opposed to upgrading the old one...

Here's my breakdown for the old computer:
$360 for two RAM sticks (which is what I would have done)
$75 for Windows 2000 (which is what I was going to get)
Total = $435
The new computer tower is $1100. So, I figure the difference is about $665
I would have liked to have gone with the cheaper method but, it's not up to me.

I'd keep that bugger, and install either IPCop or Smoothwall. Turn it into a dedicated appliance. That current config with the small amount of ram ect., is perfect. I have an old 500mhz box with 128mg memory, and a 1.6ghz hdd, that is worth a ton of gold. It's been up for years and never let me down since I set it up as a firewall.

cheers

Or you could have gotten something like what I linked to, which would have only cost 600 :D... But it's ultimately up to your parents and they have decided.

Hi ShagDevil ,

I am afraid that your math is wrong, it is $180 for the "kit" which consists of two strips, so you are talking $250 against $1100.

Before you kill the beast there are a few of things I would like you to try:

1. Set the memory manager to attempt to recover 32Mb when the available memory drops to 12Mb
2. Go into "Start", <settings>, <control panel>, <system>, <performance>, <file system>
3. Change the "Typical role of this computer" to Network Server
4. Select <Virtual Memory> and check "Let me specify my own virtual memory settings"
5. Set it to Minimum = 512, maximum = 512
6. Ignore the warnings and come out and shut down.
7. Reboot and see what happens.

That is a powerful machine from a Win ME viewpoint. If it is set to server, it will handle files more efficiently.

Windows does not handle virtual memory very well for machines with a low amount of physical RAM. If you have a small amount of physical memory, you need more virtual memory, the Win ME algorithm doesn't understand this ;)